New here - Greetings.

[Elizabeth75]

I don't know if I'm in the right place. I suppose many new members say that. I am currently searching for some help for my husband. I think he probably needs a therapist and also some type of anger management. I am still not sure if he's an alcoholic or not. That probably sounds dumb. It really shouldn't be a mystery. I just think that underneath drinking is a TON of anxiety and he would benefit from medication instead of beer.

But I came here because during an awful fight last night I watched my 40-something husband turn into an 8-year old. His voice and his behavior. He was speaking of being in trouble for having friends over too late. At another point in the argument he became an angry 15 year old, yelling at me like I was his Mother. I don't necessarily believe in Multiple Personality Disorder, although I suppose it could be a real thing. This seemed different. These weren't different people. This was him at different ages. I believe he has been traumatized throughout his youth. He did tell me that when he was a child, if he was in trouble or misbehaving, his Mother would often bring him to a Christian exorcism. I know this happened multiple times. I don't know at what age. I wonder if this is what traumatized him? Because I KNOW that I don't believe in demon possession or exorcisms and I definitely don't see that using these resources will help a troubled child to get well.

I did not know until last night, how sick my husband is. How I missed it for this many years I do not know. But all I want is for him to be happy. And healthy. And I don't want him to be so afraid anymore.

Any feedback would be helpful. Even if I'm in the wrong place, maybe you know where I could get help for this.

Thank you for your time.

[Elizabeth75]

Okay, now I feel a bit embarrassed that I asked for help and got no response. Maybe my story sounds strange? Or I need to just simplify.

Can someone tell me if taking a child to an exorcism when he misbehaves would be considered a form or spiritual abuse? Because if it is I would like to help him find the right therapist to work on this issue.

Thanks.

[Jerry]

Dear Elizabeth75,,,,,
It sounds to me like you need to find some Professional help.Yes I would consider taking a child to an exorcism abusive....

Love Jerry

[kkrocks]

Elizabeth: It must have been very distressing to experience the fight you described. If your husband is open to it you could start by having him see his medical doctor to rule out physical causes for his difficulties. His doctor would also be able to assess his drinking and recommend treatment options. If he is not open to getting help, please get some for yourself. It will help you learn how to respond to him in helpful ways and help with your own anxieties. Your doctor's office would be a good place to get referrals to the help you need. Please take care of you. You are important, too.

[Honeybee12]

Elizabeth, I'm glad you could share here in this forum. Sounds like your husband definitely has some things to work through, and because of this.. I would say you need some healing too? I'm no expert.. but experts have really helped me with healing.

Glad you're here. Keep posting. :)

[Elizabeth75]

Thank you for your kind responses. I guess I thought this might fall under the category of Spiritual Abuse, but I truly do not know. My father is a Presbyterian Minister and I was raised practically inside a church, but we never participated in anything like that.

I know that his Mother would never purposely do something to hurt him but I think the process absolutely terrified him. I've spent some time now calling around to find help but I was hoping to find a therapist who knows religion in a way that can be helpful. I've been a Christian my whole life but I don't know how to convince someone that they don't have to be afraid of God.

So anyway, the professionals I have spoken with suggest that he needs help from someone who is an expert in cults. That seems extreme to me. How is something defined as a cult vs a religion? I'm not convinced that this is the direction he should go in for therapy.

Well I guess I finally know why I could never get him to go to church with me. Its okay though. I just want him to be well and to be happy.

Thank you for listening. I'm very lost because I didn't know that people were still performing exorcisms, I really just thought it was something in the movies.

Take care,
Elizabeth

[Gayle]

Christian exorcism, think it was Jerry that said he felt that was a form of child abuse. Kinda don't think there is such a thing as Christian exorcism. I could be wrong.

I've had some experience with that, where the people trying to perform exorcism were not trained - just felt they should do whatever the Lord told them to do. So in my experience they felt if a person could say the name of Jesus that person was not possessed. All the drama created by them with the emotion on both sides leading up to that moment was quite confusing - speaking in tongues, praying in the spirit, singing whenever, and repeating phrases or instructing the person to say what they wanted to hear repeatedly until the instruction was successful - that would ensure their success regardless of what the person was experiencing. They were in charge.

I've heard of much more traumatic "exorcisms" where children/adults were beaten during sessions, sometimes died as a result.

The exorcisms might be part of your husband's issues with confusion about how he needs to perform for others. Maybe difficulty sorting out who he is in his own right? ...not sure what is appropriate behavior in different situations especially if he is triggered by something? If he was brought to exorcisms for behaviors his parents may have "tried everything in the book" before hand and saw this as the last resort? Maybe your husband believes on some level he is demon possessed. seems there was emotional, possibly physical abuse before by parents or the "exorcist." His parents wanted to have him "fixed?" That seems like abuse. I tend to believe where there is exorcism there is also abuse of some kind very much like spiritual abuse. Also attacks on a person's personality/psych as part of casting out the spirit of "whatever" they perceived it to be.

Not saying this is how things were for your husband, but exorcism just raises these flags for me. I hope things can get resolved for you and your husband. Sincerely, Gayle

[Elizabeth75]

The irony is that the goal was to cast out the spirit of "willfulness" and "rebellion" and "stubbornness."

And this was 30 years ago.

Guess who is still a willful, rebellious and stubborn person.

Its completely absurd to me. That's part of his personality.

I know he does not believe in exorcisms or any of it. I think he is afraid to hurt and/or stand up to his Mother about her beliefs. I think he would feel he is betraying her.

I do believe there were other abuses in his childhood. Hopefully this is something he can work on with his therapist.

[Gayle]

The irony is that the goal was to cast out the spirit of "willfulness" and "rebellion" and "stubbornness."

And this was 30 years ago.

Guess who is still a willful, rebellious and stubborn person.

Its completely absurd to me. That's part of his personality.

I know he does not believe in exorcisms or any of it. I think he is afraid to hurt and/or stand up to his Mother about her beliefs. I think he would feel he is betraying her.

I do believe there were other abuses in his childhood. Hopefully this is something he can work on with his therapist.

Isn't that the irony though. If you tell a person they are stubborn, obstinate, non compliant, rebellious - it seems they become what they are told. Too bad his parents didn't tell him the positive things about him and get other help for him as well as parenting classes for themselves. Doesn't seem to matter how long ago abuse or poor parenting skills happened - if a person experiences that throughout their childhood into adulthood it is likely they wouldn't know any different.

My uncle was controlled by my grandmother. Later in his adult life my grandmother moved far away from the family but every time she returned to visit my uncle would beat up his wife. When my grandmother left he would automatically become a kind gentle person. Her treatment of him affected him till he realized why he was behaving this way.

A family I knew told their son he was possessed because he had anger issues and hyper activity. they didn't know how to deal with him. His mother told him there was only one way to get him to listen - by casting out his demon. He developed negative behaviors that would only be brought under control when his parents would say "in the name of Jesus..." He would immediately calm down. Any anger issues were treated this way. He took the belief that only God could bring him under control with these words, into adulthood and other relationships. When other people wouldn't tolerate his behaviors - he was fired from his job and lost other friendships - he started to realize that he could choose how he wanted to behave. The teaching of exorcism had left this fellow with the false belief that he couldn't choose to be different - it would only be by the "power" of someone outside himself which placed him at their mercy.

I would challenge that your husband was always a rebellious, willful and stubborn child. Perhaps every time his parents were displeased with what he did - he was told who he was and eventually came to believe this about himself? Seems unlikely he became this way all by himself.

[Elizabeth75]

You completely nailed it. He struggles very much with "learned helplessness" which I think is a psychology term. I think its a result of being told that only God can fix these things and a person cannot work on themselves. And I agree that he was given the wrong messages about his personality so its no surprise that these issues are still with him. Frankly, I would have been rebellious too. My religious upbringing was so completely different from his.

He is also dyslexic and his parents and his teachers did not work with him on it. He has a bunch of books from his mother on how dyslexia can be fixed by God and is the result of some kind of rebellion or something. I don't know why she gave him books if reading is so difficult for him. It makes him so frustrated, I would love to see if he could get some kind of help for it now, as an adult, so that he would see that he has the ability to solve some of life's problems on his own.

Thank you for understanding. It seems like you know him but it sounds like you may have some people in your life who have had the same results with this type of religious upbringing.

[Gayle]

You completely nailed it. He struggles very much with "learned helplessness" which I think is a psychology term. I think its a result of being told that only God can fix these things and a person cannot work on themselves. And I agree that he was given the wrong messages about his personality so its no surprise that these issues are still with him. Frankly, I would have been rebellious too. My religious upbringing was so completely different from his.

He is also dyslexic and his parents and his teachers did not work with him on it. He has a bunch of books from his mother on how dyslexia can be fixed by God and is the result of some kind of rebellion or something. I don't know why she gave him books if reading is so difficult for him. It makes him so frustrated, I would love to see if he could get some kind of help for it now, as an adult, so that he would see that he has the ability to solve some of life's problems on his own.

Thank you for understanding. It seems like you know him but it sounds like you may have some people in your life who have had the same results with this type of religious upbringing.

Yes, I've had some experiences. lol. That's a good term to use - learned helplessness. Guess if they're preaching learned helplessness in God's name, there must be a lot of people out there who feel quite helpless. People who have disorders struggle a lot more to be what everyone else in society thinks they should be until they know they're accepted for who they are first.

You asked earlier how one can define a cult vs a religion. Some others here could probably explain it better. My definition of cult is when a group/organization or family insist that you become something you're not and use spiritual/religious practices to break your "willful" spirit and bring you to a place of submission. Once that is accomplished they can mold your life to something you won't recognize when you look in the mirror.

I used to work with a young person who has dyslexia. Places that treat people who have dyslexia ask the person to lay different colors of transparency, like overhead sheets, over a printed page. These can be bought at office supply stores. Treatment centers use specially made sheets and have more variety of colors. They make colored lenses with the color that works best. I suppose if a person wanted they could keep using the sheet if they didn't want the glasses. We tried blue, red, yellow and green. The person I worked with said red made the letters stop moving and changing. She began to feel more confident in her reading. Now as an adult she enjoys reading novels and is also more confident in other areas. Its a simple, inexpensive way to go for something so frustrating.

I wonder if your husband might be willing to try it? Age doesn't matter. At least it would make reading easier when he really needs to - like filling forms or looking for phone numbers etc. An optometrist should be able to refer him to a specialist if he'd be up to it.