ercr
05-18-2010, 07:43 PM
First off, I have been looking for a forum like this just to express all the thoughts, feelings etc that I have experienced with my former church over the last 6 months.
I first noticed the abusive behaviour of our church leaders at a members meeting. Let me go a few steps back though. Our pastor has had multiple strokes over the prior year prior to this meeting and basically was out of action. He has short term memory loss, and cannot remember anything that happened in the last 5 min. He had reached the point where he had to be taken care of like a baby. Told when to eat, when to sleep etc.etc. However he was considered still the pastor in charge. In addition, his assistant pastor had resigned about a month prior to this meeting with no explanation to the congregation why.
Ok, so the meeting came and we thought that we were going to get an explanation as to why the assistance pastor left, and also thought that the meeting would be a forum for questions. Well, the meeting went on with presentations of elaborate plans, vision, etc etc, no questions were entertained. They were about to close the meeting until someone brave enough stood and said, well, they understood that the meeting was to be open for questions. The leaders then reluctantly asked what questions they were. First someone respectfully asked what happened to the assistant pastor. They said, well, we should go and ask him. They don't feel it is right for them to say. Then my wife asked if pastor (who was sitting there) was ok to really lead the congregation. There was no answer to that. All the while the pastors wife was looking around at those asking questions, with a scowl on her face. Someone got up and said we in the congregation should just trust the leaders and not ask questions. People were treated like kids, and no real answers were dealt with, and then at the end of the meeting we were all told that we needed to sign covenant members cards to become members (we did not sign).
Fast forward: I was a ministry leader, and my wife as well. I got a unsigned letter that just said it was from the 'office of the senior pastor), saying that I was to hand in my keys for the building, do not meet with my ministry staff, etc until the issue with my wife is resolved. What issue: well my wife recieved a letter as well saying that her question was disrepectfull, unbecoming as a leader, etc etc, and they require my wife to come and apologize to the senior pastor and his wife. When our pastor was healthy he never ever communicated to us via letter. Anyway, I called the pastor's house to ask if this unsigned letter was from him. His wife picked up the phone and reluctantly put the pastor on. I engaged in small talk, then brought up the letter and asked if it was from him. He really did not answer.... but his wife suddenly spoke (I did not realize she was listening) and said yes it was and that we need to respect them, and that my wife needs to come and apologize. I said ok, since you guys are offended, my wife will come, but I must come as well to witness and support my wife. She argued about me coming, but reluctantly agreed. So we were all set to set a date to go talk to them. But early the next morning, the pastors wife called me and said that she and her husband discussed it and my wife will have to come alone. I said can we discuss this. She said that no that is the decision and she needs to go, and then hung up on me. I was shocked.
I told my wife she cannot go to meet them alone without me. She accepted and agreed, but it was difficult cause her friends were saying, she should go alone cause the pastor said to go alone. We spoke to other pastors we trusted and they all told us it is wrong for them to demand to speak to my wife and not allow me to go too. My wife even called the pastors wife ( who seemed to now be making all decisions) about the issue and the pastor's wife said that my wife should choose who she will obey, me or them.
Anyway, because we agreed this is wrong, and that any meeting with my wife must include me, they wrote us a couple more letters, and then basically forced me to resign, and they were telling people I was still in charge of the ministry, even though they took my keys, etc, etc.
Since then, many people have been hurt and come to us telling us of the control, the manipulation, and the demands being placed on them. They started preaching about obeying leaders. They did this for about a month. They also a giving deadlines for people to sign a covenant members card or they cannot be a member of the church. They also are telling people that unless they attend all small group meetings, people cannot be members. They don't allow any ministry leader any autonomy. They make all the decisions for all ministries, but the ministry leaders has to carry it out.
They react arbitrarily to situations... It is as if they are making up rules as they go along. Nothing is in writing. All the while they are saying that the pastor is the one making the decisions, when in fact he can't remember what happened 10 minutes ago. My wife and I and kids have left that church. Many others have left as well, but many of our friends have stayed. We are hearing now though that many of those friends have serious concerns of the leadership. One of the people who asked questions at the meeting did go and apologize, but they said that he did not have the right attitude when he apologized so he would have to sit down from ministry until they decided he has really repented. They will determine when he has adequately been restored in his heart. (can you imagine).
In any case, the Evangelical Counsel of churches have heard about this, and after carefull consideration approached the leadership to ask them to transfer leadership to someone else in thier church who can still carry on thier vision because the pastor (and his wife) are unfit to lead the church and are hurting members of the body of Christ. The pastor and his wife refused to give up leadership.
My wife and I are still struggling about this whole ordeal especially as it relates to our old friends who are still there, and those who have left and are hurt. In addition or youngest child asks from time to time when we will go back to that church.
Sorry for the long post, but just had to express my self. There is more, but I think you get the picture.
I first noticed the abusive behaviour of our church leaders at a members meeting. Let me go a few steps back though. Our pastor has had multiple strokes over the prior year prior to this meeting and basically was out of action. He has short term memory loss, and cannot remember anything that happened in the last 5 min. He had reached the point where he had to be taken care of like a baby. Told when to eat, when to sleep etc.etc. However he was considered still the pastor in charge. In addition, his assistant pastor had resigned about a month prior to this meeting with no explanation to the congregation why.
Ok, so the meeting came and we thought that we were going to get an explanation as to why the assistance pastor left, and also thought that the meeting would be a forum for questions. Well, the meeting went on with presentations of elaborate plans, vision, etc etc, no questions were entertained. They were about to close the meeting until someone brave enough stood and said, well, they understood that the meeting was to be open for questions. The leaders then reluctantly asked what questions they were. First someone respectfully asked what happened to the assistant pastor. They said, well, we should go and ask him. They don't feel it is right for them to say. Then my wife asked if pastor (who was sitting there) was ok to really lead the congregation. There was no answer to that. All the while the pastors wife was looking around at those asking questions, with a scowl on her face. Someone got up and said we in the congregation should just trust the leaders and not ask questions. People were treated like kids, and no real answers were dealt with, and then at the end of the meeting we were all told that we needed to sign covenant members cards to become members (we did not sign).
Fast forward: I was a ministry leader, and my wife as well. I got a unsigned letter that just said it was from the 'office of the senior pastor), saying that I was to hand in my keys for the building, do not meet with my ministry staff, etc until the issue with my wife is resolved. What issue: well my wife recieved a letter as well saying that her question was disrepectfull, unbecoming as a leader, etc etc, and they require my wife to come and apologize to the senior pastor and his wife. When our pastor was healthy he never ever communicated to us via letter. Anyway, I called the pastor's house to ask if this unsigned letter was from him. His wife picked up the phone and reluctantly put the pastor on. I engaged in small talk, then brought up the letter and asked if it was from him. He really did not answer.... but his wife suddenly spoke (I did not realize she was listening) and said yes it was and that we need to respect them, and that my wife needs to come and apologize. I said ok, since you guys are offended, my wife will come, but I must come as well to witness and support my wife. She argued about me coming, but reluctantly agreed. So we were all set to set a date to go talk to them. But early the next morning, the pastors wife called me and said that she and her husband discussed it and my wife will have to come alone. I said can we discuss this. She said that no that is the decision and she needs to go, and then hung up on me. I was shocked.
I told my wife she cannot go to meet them alone without me. She accepted and agreed, but it was difficult cause her friends were saying, she should go alone cause the pastor said to go alone. We spoke to other pastors we trusted and they all told us it is wrong for them to demand to speak to my wife and not allow me to go too. My wife even called the pastors wife ( who seemed to now be making all decisions) about the issue and the pastor's wife said that my wife should choose who she will obey, me or them.
Anyway, because we agreed this is wrong, and that any meeting with my wife must include me, they wrote us a couple more letters, and then basically forced me to resign, and they were telling people I was still in charge of the ministry, even though they took my keys, etc, etc.
Since then, many people have been hurt and come to us telling us of the control, the manipulation, and the demands being placed on them. They started preaching about obeying leaders. They did this for about a month. They also a giving deadlines for people to sign a covenant members card or they cannot be a member of the church. They also are telling people that unless they attend all small group meetings, people cannot be members. They don't allow any ministry leader any autonomy. They make all the decisions for all ministries, but the ministry leaders has to carry it out.
They react arbitrarily to situations... It is as if they are making up rules as they go along. Nothing is in writing. All the while they are saying that the pastor is the one making the decisions, when in fact he can't remember what happened 10 minutes ago. My wife and I and kids have left that church. Many others have left as well, but many of our friends have stayed. We are hearing now though that many of those friends have serious concerns of the leadership. One of the people who asked questions at the meeting did go and apologize, but they said that he did not have the right attitude when he apologized so he would have to sit down from ministry until they decided he has really repented. They will determine when he has adequately been restored in his heart. (can you imagine).
In any case, the Evangelical Counsel of churches have heard about this, and after carefull consideration approached the leadership to ask them to transfer leadership to someone else in thier church who can still carry on thier vision because the pastor (and his wife) are unfit to lead the church and are hurting members of the body of Christ. The pastor and his wife refused to give up leadership.
My wife and I are still struggling about this whole ordeal especially as it relates to our old friends who are still there, and those who have left and are hurt. In addition or youngest child asks from time to time when we will go back to that church.
Sorry for the long post, but just had to express my self. There is more, but I think you get the picture.