let

[standing still]

I will start from the end of your message and then move up. First, I don't take anything you say personal. I have had my family ripped away. I am in counsel now for healing and coping skills from spritual abuse. I am a textbook case. I suffer from the incestual effects.

I don't quite know what you mean mean when you say. "someone like myself." I think many here are being quick to speak, quick to judge, and slow to listen. I've never met you, nor you me.

Have you read all my posts?

Have you visited the web site?

Do so, and then speak.

I'm not coming with a plea for ministry, or for someone to join something. Someone responded with an off handed remark about a web site, so I called my administer and had it put up so that those who may have had their curiosity stoked could take a look. Maybe they will see something that can help them in the future, maybe not.

Further, we can't discard the words, "minister", or "pastor", just as we can't discard the word "mother", and "father" simply because we were possibly abused by them. What we have to do is come to understand what the true definition of those words mean, and how those roles are to be fulfilled.

I'm in too deep now. I'm not a "pastor." I'm not a "minister". There is not any more maligned thinking in the church today than that of the role of pastor, or of what it means to truly pastor. My "ministry" is directed at that. It is born out of my struggles with the legalistic, performance based church systems that exist today.

For the person who was scared off by the word "disciple", that only shows that that person is a long way from gaining the healing they need to be able to trust those words. The word "disciple" is not a bad word any more than "minister", "pastor", etc. However, I can certainly understand how they can be bad to the person who was taken advantage of, or abused by any that held that title, or used modes of discipleship in an abusive format.

There is no perfect system out there. As humans, we all make mistakes. Certain spiritual systems, unfortunately, become manufacturers of spritual leaders that are abuse prone. Most of the time they are blind to it.

In regard to marching orders from Jesus. There is only one: Obedience. So, because we were abused, and seeking to gain a balance in our spritual gyroscopes, are we not to press toward the goal of obedience to Christ? No, and I don't think you were insinuating that. Unfortunately, even the word "obedience" to someone who has been spiritually abused can sound scary depending on the way they were abused, expecially if they came from a religious cult of some sort.

In any event, this is becoming a fascinating journey for me here on this site. I am amazed at how much I have learned in only a few hours.

I will continue to post. We should not be in fear of laying it all out in the open. That is the first true evidence of a forum that is not abusive. If I weren't one of you I would be offended. However, every post I see is a reflection of myself.

So, let's keep posting and learning.

I need your constructive criticism: Go to my site, and then let me have it!

klmministries.ihostvm.com

Do not put the "www" in front of the address -- t is in test mode.

Pal,

You have to understand that the people here have had their lives shattered by the shout-hallelujiah-praise-Jesus style of religion. They have had their family members, friends, and their whole world snatched away from them. Many of them don't feel like praising Jesus anymore. So, when someone comes along and bursts onto the forum with a plea for a new ministry, a new website, marching orders from Jesus, shouts of praises, etc., you may not find too many of us ready to join the choir.

I've seen this same thing happen here many times. Someone like yourself will come onto the forum to try to "minister" to the wounded people here. They will try to preach Scripture verses to us, tell us we are "bitter" and "poisoned", attempt to drag us off to another website, etc. Then when a few of us reply with a not-so-enthused response, the poster takes it personal, gets mad, starts calling us names, and storms out of the forum leaving it an absolute wreck.

Please don't take the negative replies personal. Many of us came here in the same state you are in. After a while the wind just left our sails. We no longer sprint to the starting line when someone asks us to get involved in the praise and worship team.

:(

[Patty]

"that that person is a long way from gaining the healing they need to be able to trust those words"

This phrase sounds so much like the hypocrites in my old church who thought that they could sit in judgement on another and decide who needs healing. No one can "diagnose." You even use the word "healing" in your own context. It may not mean the same to you as it does to others. When I hear you tell me or others we "need healing," this is what I hear: "Something is wrong or evil or unspiritual with you. You must submit to what I say in order to get better. If you don't what you are told, you must have demons and/or we can't fellowship with you."
Name me one person you decided ever needed healing, didn't submit to your definition of healing and subsequently became a friend of yours.

[Voyager]

I remember a time that I went to an A.A. meeting. After one newcomer gave his big victory speech, an older guy piped up and said, "Yeah, we'll see." The new guy was trying to tell all the A.A. members how he was miraculously "healed by God", infering that if everyone else followed his program, the rest of them could be healed too. The old members were understandably skeptical.

FYI - The new guy never made it to another meeting, and within weeks he was back in the tavern again.

:cool: