Hey everyone, new here

[Lori]

What a blessing it is to find this place! We have been out of an abusive church situation since last May and it is getting better. I have been reading some other posts and I too am from an alcoholic home, was abused as a child, and have just had some crazy things happen. The church we were in was pretty much into controlling much of what we did. I just came across the term "spiritual abuse" a few days ago. An old friend who left the church many years ago recently found me on facebook. She recommended I do some reading. I feel so glad to know I am NOT CRAZY! I am not "full of rebellion, out from under spiritual covering and authority, out of God's will, and have NOT made the biggest mistake of my life" by leaving. I am also an "over explainer". Just this morning, I was supposed to teach children's church and I left my lesson book home in the morning shuffle. I had a complete melt down! I was crying and shaking and so apologetic to the head of the children's church ministry. PRAISE GOD we are in a nice church! She was so sweet. She had a "plan B" for me, hugged and comforted me, told me it was ok to be human, and things were just fine! What a difference from the performance based, conditional love I was used to getting! :)

I pray I can continue to heal and stop second guessing everything. I know I hear from God, but after many years of hearing I in fact do not, or I heard wrong, that the leader who was my "spiritual covering and personal pastor" could hear better than me and had my "best interest at heart because she loved me so much", it is still a little hard to believe.

Thanks for giving us a please to talk, and learn, and heal.

Blessings,
Lori

[ex-shep]

Welcome aboard, Lori.

It is a nice feeling to find people that have been in same place and no, I did not get off a space ship from Mars. It sounds as if you are into some good healing from the affair. It beats denial hands down. I have been in 12 step recovery since 1987. I have been with the anti cult movement since 1984. I went to a support group in New Jersey shortly after I left my groups. Even though I was the only member from a shepherding or bible based cult, it was still a relief to see that I am not the only one.

Feel free to poke around or just listen. If you feel you need to vent, we are here. It will not take long before somebody comes on board to provide his experience, strength, and hope. Make yourself at home. Virtual coffee pot is always brewing. There are still plenty of Easter leftovers on the dessert tray, so help yourself. Glad you are here.

[riverdove]

Lori,

Reading your story, I feel the pain ... once again ... I was in denial that my family was dysfunctional until the church dysfunctional threw me out of balance and my whole world came collapsing down. Sometimes I've been thinking to myself, what if I ended up in a more healthy church ... would things turn out differently? As I recall, there were times in my life that I was doing well spiritually and that was the time when I was connected with some healthy and grace filled Christians. I thank God that those were the people I really want to grow to be like ... Still ... the scars inflicted by SA are not to be taken lightly .... they just bring out a lot of hurts in my past. It's bad enough that one came from a dysfunctional home, it's utterly devastating if the church perpetuates the dysfunction. In a grace filled environment, it is possible to find healing .... where hope, love and acceptance is taught and modeled. I'm glad to hear that your present church is a loving and accepting church. It's hard to find one these days .... Take one day at a time ..

After my SA, I've read lots of books and two books that continously stand out for me are, "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse," By David Johnson & Jeff VanVonderen, and the other one is "Soul Repair" by Jeff Vanvonderen & Dale & Juanita. Thanks for sharing your story.

[Lori]

Thanks for the warm welcome! I guess the hardest part for me is the relationships I still have with people that still go to the church. I want so bad to shake them but it's not my place. They just don't understand what "my problem is". They don't understand because they have not had the same issues. It is kind of weird. There are MANY leaders there, not all of them bad. Mine just happened to be. I was told to give them my myspace and facebook passwords so they could check up on me. My husband said NO! But that doesn't happen to everyone. My leader told me I went to they gym too much, that I couldn't be friends with certain people that she didn't approve of for whatever reason and so on. The problem was I couldn't change leaders, you had to stay with who they assigned you to. When I complained to her "uplink", I was told since she was my "spiritual mother", I was to obey her like I expect my children to obey me. The problem is I am 45! The pastor has said from the pulpit many times "if you have a problem with my leaders, take it up with God, not me. I have their back". I thought she just didn't like me or something. I had no idea this was a common occurance and that it had a name. We just knew it felt wrong. That I was to submit to this woman and not my husband. They also removed my daughter from her ministries because she accidentally dyed her hair pink trying to make it red. She wasn't given the option of a hat or a color correction. She was told she had "effectively ruined her ministry and can no longer be used by God". She has a beautiful voice and is gifted in dance.

I don't just want to complain, I am really not bitter anymore. I just wondered if these experiences had ever happened to anyone else? If this really is wrong? Is it a pastor's job to dictate how often one goes to the gym or how old their friends are? (my leader had a problem with one of my close friends being only 25). I still find myself questioning whether or not she really did overstep her bounds or if I truly was in rebellion.

The church we are in now requires so little. We are allowed to serve, the opportunities exist, but it is not mandatory. It was in the other church. We also had to take leadership courses and move "up the road to maturity".

Thanks yet again for allowing me to vent and ask questions. This is the first "safe" place I have found to ask the burning questions that still won't go away.

Blessings,
Lori

[Jerry]

"if you have a problem with my leaders, take it up with God, not me. I have their back". They also removed my daughter from her ministries because she accidentally dyed her hair pink trying to make it red. She wasn't given the option of a hat or a color correction. She was told she had "effectively ruined her ministry and can no longer be used by God". She has a beautiful voice and is gifted in dance.


Dear Lori,,,,
It isn't his job to have his leaders back,,,,,its his job to have YOUR back......................Where in scripture does it say "Thou shalt not dye thy hair pink" Having a grooming melt-down wasn't the "Unforgivable" sin last time I checked.....In fact ,truth be known,God probably got a good chuckle out of it .... :D

Love Jerry

[Malinda]

Welcome Lori,
Riverdove is right, get those two books she mentioned. The book Soul Repair has truly been messing with me but in a good way. You really should read those books.
Pastors are supposed to be Shepherds. Shepherds don't dictate. Shepherds lead not prod. Shepherds are gentle not abrasive.
Cowboys have cattle prods that sting when you don't perform. They also use those annoying dogs that nip at your heals to dictate where you go and what you do. They yell, they manipulate, and you, as the cattle, are only there to fulfill their needs. You're the piece of meat. In the end you get slaughtered.
Sheep only give their wool which is their excess. Serving a Shepherd should be a natural process, not something that is forced.
No one should ever dictate to you or your family anything! They aren't God. I'm so glad you're here though.
To answer your question, yes, she overstepped her bounds! She had, NO, biblical ground to stand on and neither did your senior Pastor.
You're not in rebellion for asking questions and getting unsatisfactory answers. You're not in rebellion for leaving. God is your covering, not a man, not a woman, not a Pastor. Nowhere in the word of God does it ever talk about a man being the "covering" over someone else. We need to be accountable, yes, but not controlled.
To answer another question, yes some of us have experienced that kind of dictatorship. My spiritual abusive Pastors told me "the Holy spirit told me to address this in your life" and then followed it with telling me that if I chose to have another baby (two days after a miscarriage) that I would no longer be able to work at the church as their music minister.
My Pastor also liked to "suggest" what clothes I would wear, and how to do my hair. The Pastors wife told me after I had turned in my resignation that I was out of the will of God and she believed destruction would come my way if I left.
You aren't alone, by far.
This is truly a safe place to heal. Be welcome here.

[Ellen]

Welcome Lori,
Pastors are supposed to be Shepherds. Shepherds don't dictate. Shepherds lead not prod. Shepherds are gentle not abrasive.
Cowboys have cattle prods that sting when you don't perform. They also use those annoying dogs that nip at your heals to dictate where you go and what you do. They yell, they manipulate, and you, as the cattle, are only there to fulfill their needs. You're the piece of meat. In the end you get slaughtered.
Sheep only give their wool which is their excess. Serving a Shepherd should be a natural process, not something that is forced.
No one should ever dictate to you or your family anything! They aren't God. You aren't alone, by far.
This is truly a safe place to heal. Be welcome here.

Malinda,
This is awesome - I so chuckled as I read it. What a great word-picture! Thanks for starting my day off right!
Ellen

[Spiny Norman]

Is it a pastor's job to dictate how often one goes to the gym or how old their friends are? (my leader had a problem with one of my close friends being only 25).
The short answer to those questions is a resounding: NO

A pastor's job is to guide and to care for the flock, not to dictate the behaviour of individual members of the flock. Christ came to bring freedom, not bondage. The freedom He brings is not bondage to men covered up by some wishy-washy conceptual freedom. It is REAL FREEDOM. When Christ makes you free, you are free indeed.

Having worked in church administration myself, I can tell you that some pastors get very confused sometimes. They start thinking that God's people are their people. That's where the oppression and bondage comes from, because they put themselves above God.

[Lori]

Thanks everyone! I read 3 books, one being "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse". 2 more, one by Ken Blue and another that I can't remember. They helped SO MUCH!!!! They helped me see not only was it my "gut" that told me this was wrong but that it was Biblically wrong as well. The church we were at did pretty much everything on the lists that points to an abusive situation. I loaned them to my daughter so she could read them as well.

The thing that helped me the most was the advice on how to leave. We did everything right according to them. I first talked to my leader because I felt she was being too controlling. I then talked to her "uplink" and got the response I previously noted. The final step, to go to the senior pastor wasn't even an option as he had said the thing about having leadership's backs. We knew we were free to leave. I had spoken to a friend of mine that told me when you talk to them there are 3 possibilities. 1. They will see the error, repent, and things will get better. 2. They will NOT see the error, things will NEVER change, and you should leave. and 3. Things will NOT change but you stay anyway and deal with it. Option 3 was out of the question so we chose 2. We left with a clear conscience but I have had such a hard time wondering if we made the right choice and that the problem was with us being in rebellion as we were told.

Praise God I see that we were justified. I know that may sound strange but it has done wonders for us in the healing department. I am learning to trust my new pastor. The church we are at is "healthy". We sat on our backsides for 5 months and just absorbed before we offered to serve. I am so thankful that God is such a good God and a good DAD!