Help Confronted by the Pastor today... head on! [Archive]

mom24gr8tgirls

08-10-2009, 11:27 PM

Today was the first day that I woke up feeling some sense of freedom...went through the day... actually smiled and knew that it was truly a smile coming from deep within.

Enjoyed my chats with a few friends ... really had felt some sense of deliverance or oppression had lifted.

Associate Pastor's wife called this afternoon.. felt great about how I handled that... knew that they forced her to call... thinking that she could get some info from us about why we are leaving... I told her all was good we know this is God... we are all in unity and we are seeking His will for us at this time... and that we have sought some wise counsel as well

We had some friends invited to come over for dinner... about 30 min before they came... got a call from the Associate Pastor... he had us on speaker phone.. don't know if anyone else was there or not

He said how are you doing... we answered well thank you. He said... heard you were leaving the church Senior Pastor got an e-mail from you this morning.... He began to sound angry... told my husband that he lacked character for not calling to make an appt to tell them we were leaving in person. He said that our daughter was more mature in her approach than we were so my husband apologized and said that he had errored and we should have called and told them... P

Pastor: You are leaving the church in the wrong way... You owe us a meeting, we are hurt too, you don't know how to work out differences, you are being selfish and cavalier... people are going to be hurt in this church because of how you are leaving... You have a responsibility to these people they are your family in Christ.. we have given you open access to us and loved you unconditionally but you love us conditionally... You need to learn how to work out things... we have poured into your family...(we have yet to figure out just what this means... we rarely if ever are with our Pastors)

Pastor also said to my husband... You need to deal with confrontation... we need to meet man to man... I don't want to hear that people are hurting in the church unless you bring me a list of names...

Husband said: I won't share anything anyone has told us unless they give us permission to do so.

Pastor: what day are you going to call me to schedule a face to face, man to man meeting? I need the day I am to expect your call.

He told him a day this week.. when we hung up the phone... I felt like I had just been hit with a ton of bricks... WE have busted our backs to love people at this church and we have very close friends here... we don't due it to have someone owe us we do it because we love God and love people... I feel like I have come back under this spirit again... my family watched me sink like a child into guilt and condemnation and confusion... they really want me to feel like I am crazy... what they are saying does not match up with the truth of what we are living..

He told us that we were damaging our children...

I don't know what else to say... please pray for us... I feel like my feet are on shifting sand... don't know if I am so un spiritual that I cannot know if I am hearing for God...he obviously needs to hear for us.. he also told my husband that this is not the Lord leading us to do this in this way..

He keeps demanding that we are hurt and offended and I said that I actually am not... I know that I need healing and deliverance... but could talk with anyone we know at the church and not feel offense... he kept trying to get me to admit my hurts from the past... I said of course there were hurts but we are beyond those we just need some time to seek soley as a family...

It was harsh and I am hurting and so is my family... we had some friends from that church that came for supper and they heard some of it...

Should we meet with them... seems unproductive.. seems to draw me back into the power of this controlling spirit or whatever it is. I want to look the demon in the eye and cast him out myself.

don't know how long I can play this game... how can this be the heart of God?.. Grieved...Broken and Confused...Again.

luttrell03

08-11-2009, 01:32 AM

Yes, that is not funny at all.
You are now seeing openly the blatant spirit of control and manipulation that soo often is hidden from the forefront in such a system. Usually the controlling is done subtely in the guise of spiritual light (religious light) but, when they sense they're loosing control of something or someone the face comes out clear to see. IMO This is not God's spirit but a psuedo religious leadership.

That was pure manipulation on the part of that pastor, using religious guilt to get you to conform. But, let me ask you,,,is that really the heart of a shepherd , or is that the heart of a false shepherd who has no emotional regard for its subjects? Why is he soo hurt? Has he been investing unconditionally into your life thus earning the right to speak to you with such authority (condemnation)?
I'm told to check the fruit and mark and avoid the wolves disguised in sheep's clothing. That's my right as a child of God. It was put their from a loving God who wants to protect my spiritual well-being from those who'd love the opportunity to trample upon it. Were they accountable to your well-being as 'shepherds' or have they shown themselves to be over-lords of HIs heritage?

If that was the nature of the phone call, I can't imagine what the spirit of that face-to-face will be like. I doubt it will be done in brokenness.
If they're soo concerned about how the church feels about your leaving, why don't they let you get up in front of the congregation and tell everyone the truth as to why you're leaving. It says to speak to the truth to one another in love? Does the pastor really operate before everyone face-to-face and man-to man or is he really the coward hiding behind his self made position. Its usually the most cowardly, scared who are the most controlling heartless individuals. They are driven blindly by their need to control something. That's not being a man.

I think it's a one-way accountability guilt trip. The 'king' is infuriated that somebody would dare treat him like a common citizen so the guilt machine is in full throttle.
Again IMO they sound like a pseudo religious, self appointed authority demaning obedience,, opposite of God's under shepherding heart.
If it was legitimate leadership they wouldn't try to steer you with religious guilt but would be desiring to know what they've done to hurt and grieve your family. But, I don't see them having the heart attitude of, "perhaps, I'm the man,,,perhaps, I have sinned.
I believe God will tell you what you need to do but don't forget,,'you were bought with a price; therefore don't become slaves of men.'
hoping the best.

Jerry

08-11-2009, 02:09 AM

beginagainrose

08-11-2009, 05:35 AM

Dear Sister... I have been praying for you and your family as my heart is broken over your pain and the way you are being treated. I am only 55 but I have seen such a belly full of this and so here is what I think.

Shame is a terrible motivator...but a powerful one. This whole conversation they had with you is full of manipulation and shame...and the perpertrator is trying to take the victim chair....a common powerplay and it IS to try and make you feel crazy! Do NOT think pastors are above this ungodly behavior.

I have such admiration for the OBvious intimate walk you have with the Lord. Do NOT doubt yourself. Shaming your husband with the "man to man" dung is so low but then to add the "damaging your children" and the oh so "what about me, what about me?" of how they "Poured into you"...???!!! Baloney/Salami!

There is a saying in my family that fits here: The only winning move is not to play! These people just PROVED your sense of what is going on is TRUE. RUN! Do NOT try to dance with the devil...and since these people are so in their flesh that is what you would be attempting to do. You will only cause yourselves more pain, doubt and emotional/psychological damage...and THAT would be harmful to your children. Camp on Ezekiel 34... that is where the Lord took me to see the truth of what my "shepherds" were doing to me.(See my story in "Sheep Matter to God: Part I and II)

I believe Ezekiel 34 shepherding is epidemic in the Body. There is NO doing this NICE... and certainly not biblical...they have proved that. PLEASE tell your husband he did the right thing NOT to do this face to face... and I will end with this... YOU are being "managed" in their attempt at damage control because they are already playing this to have an explantion for other people to make you the bad guy and them the victims. Let them. You cannot stop this. People will have to prayerfully decide what they believe is the truth. Trust God...some will get it...perhaps most will not. I would love that to be the other way around, but honestly, I believe that will depend upon each person's walk with the Lord. All you can do is care for your own family. YOU have done that. They would still have done this IF you had done the face to face or not... they are looking for a way to save face and their own necks. Walk away. It is your classroom to learn how to comfort others because spirital abuse IS Ezekiel 34 and it is rampant! It is a high calling...bear your cross and rejoice that God saw you trustworthy for this kind of pain; it is a high compliment from our Lord. May the God of ALL peace, comfort and wisdom be in you, with you and upon you...and give you rest. I am praying for you. Blessings and may you find a faithful shepherd. They are out there; keep believing...and move on.:)

Reg

08-11-2009, 07:29 AM

Dear Mom24,,,,,
Thats some Pastard you have there,,,,,,and yes I spelled it right ;) Sweetheart,,there's no easy way.There comes a time when there isn't much of you left,,,,but trust there IS enough,,,,,,,,just enough of you left to put an end to it......just enough of you left to turn your back and walk away. I will rejoice for you that day........That's when your healing begins ;) And what of your "Pastor" ???? Ezekiel 13 vs.3-9 is his fate :eek:

Love Jerry
Mom24,

Here's some more scriptures that fit....

Mt 7:15 ¶ "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
1Jo 4:1;
Mt 24:4-5, 11,24
Mr 13:22
Lu 21:8
Ac 20:29-30
Ro 16:18
2Co 11:13-15
Ga 4:17
2Ti 3:5
Jer 23:16
Isa 56:11
Jer 14:14
Jer 23:16

nicadaemus

08-11-2009, 07:53 AM

The most important advice I can give you is don't be sucked into this "man to man" meeting. Here they are insulting your family's spirituality and your husband's masculinity and courage. They have labeled you as unfaithful and cowardly. How much better do you think a face to face will go?

You may have the feeling that you want to confront, to get up in their face and reveal to them the great pain they are inflicting on the congregation. Trust me, I have been there. I have had a face to face confrontation and I am sad to say, I lost. You see, these spiritual predators have many more years of experience beating people down that we do in resisting such attacks.

You'll not accomplish anything except feeling more defeated. Pray for God's guidance, and follow what he says, not what your emotions tell you. As much as we would like to call these "leaders" into accountability and kick them out of their pulpits, I don't believe we will accomplish that, but we can rest in the fact that God will hold them accountable for their actions.

I am doing my best to leave my former pastor in God's hands and out of my life. My advice is that you do the same, move on, and let the healing begin. God bless and keep you and your family. :)

ex-shep

08-11-2009, 08:52 AM

FreeinJesus

08-11-2009, 10:49 AM

Hi MOM24, I haven't been here often lately, but I stopped by & felt to comment on what you've wrote.

I woke up feeling some sense of freedom...went through the day... actually smiled and knew that it was truly a smile coming from deep within.

You will feel that much more often once you are truly away for good from that abusive group...

I can only speak from my own experience, but your pastors seem to be using shame & condemnation to get you & your family to do what THEY want you to do...that aint freedom. They want CONTROL over you & your lives, where you worship, what you believe, etc...

I would avoid contact & meetings w/ them because their WHOLE PURPOSE is to make you feel shamed for questioning them & for walking away from their group.
They will try to make you feel as if God Almighty is very angry w/ you for walking away from them, but this is NOT TRUE. God will not be mad at you, IMHO. Everyone has their own road to walk w/ their maker & who are they to determine yours?

Their reasons for speaking w/ you & your husband are for one reason only, KEEP YOU IN THE GROUP...no matter what it takes, shame, condemnation, guilt, they will pull all of these out to get you to not leave. Save yourself from their manipulations & avoid them. It will be hard & of course they will cast blame on you for not being loving or whatever, but their motives are not good & please don't subject yourself & your family to the controlling BS.

That's my take on it....I wish you all the best

Hope 98

08-11-2009, 11:22 AM

I just have to add my "voice" to the others. The face to face meeting that they are demanding is just another attempt to manipulate you both with guilt and shame.

One way I've been told to deal with such things is to hand it back to the sender and say, "No thank you". I haven't personally mastered the technique, but I've heard that others have success with it :)

Prayers for your freedom!

luttrell03

08-11-2009, 11:27 AM

To add, I can only say looking back that every meeting I attended to try to reconcile the matter with the former pastor whether by phone or face-to-face meant only more wounds I would have to tend to later. The best strategy is not to play their game. Good advice Rose.

mom24gr8tgirls

08-11-2009, 12:52 PM

Thank you so much, all of you.... you have no idea how much we need to hear the words that you are speaking over and over again. I think that I am still in shock...I know that I have to go through the stages of grief/anger... seems so crazy that 'the church' could have brought me to a need of being rehabilitated!

I am grateful for your words and scriptures and even the humor that is thrown in here and there. Those little bursts of laughter are so needed.

I am so blessed to have such a Godly husband that he knew that it would be so detrimental to me to meet with the Pastors in person that he chose to do it another way. He has shown me the love of Christ our whole 20 years of marriage... without him I'm not sure I would even have a glimpse of who Jesus is. But God.... was so loving to bring him to me.

My heart grieves for those that are caught up in this... talked to a friend this morning... they are Deacons who have been thoroughly swaying back and forth but today evidently they are obeying the leaders... conversation was distant.. like the 'zombie" that I would become every time we met with the leaders... it is so sad to see.... I know I can not convince anyone of this... that only the cries of my heart to the Father is the only hope for them right now... but my love for these people runs deep and it is so painful to watch.

We are preparing ourselves for what is to come... focusing on how we are to be more like Christ even in this hurt.... just not as easy done as it is to say it... There is something that rises up in me that wants to bring the Pastors to their knees... not such a loving thought....I have to push through this and still choose to love them... not love what they do but know that I can never put myself under their authority or control again....Oh how grieved is the heart of God.

True Godly authority is not something that we command... it is a natural process of living out a life that people see is fruitful and loving and wise... others then willingly come to gain wisdom and direction and then you lovingly release them so that may fly on wings like eagles. One of the most precious moments for my husband and I when we counsel a couple is the moment that we know they no longer need us... that they have their eyes on the Father and can hear from them, themselves.... I never cry tears of grief over that only tears of joy as I know that the only reason we sat with them was so they could be healed and become "ONE" as He intended and that they soon will be called to comfort other couples the way they have been comforted and their joy will be complete as they help another to fly.

May all of you be blessed for you love and kindness and truth that you speak. Thank you for sharing your hearts and hurts ... it feels safe to come here and share... If it isn't obvious to you yet ... I process through words and writing .... it helps me release what is inside. Thank you for being so patient to read these long messages and take the time to pray and answer when the Lord leads you to. No, doubt God is glorified by how you are helping to mend the broken hearted...

my posts have surely not come to an end as I know I am processing and there will be more to come. We are meeting with a couple that have dealt with Controlling Churches... their own children went through it... they Pastor at another church but we know that they are safe... they have always pointed us in the direction of Jesus and not ever condemned our church but asked the right questions so that our minds can see truth and be clear... I love that they don't even try to get us to go to their church but tell us to pray and let the Lord lead and if we need to sit at home for a time and heal and let God love us that's ok....

Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is FREEDOM

luttrell03

08-11-2009, 01:11 PM

seems so crazy that 'the church' could have brought me to a need of being rehabilitated!

I think it's God mercy that He allows folks like you and others to see through such circumstances what's really not His church at all. I believe His church is a community where power, prestige, men are not the focus. Sounds obvious, but I've rarely seen it be the case,,though I know there's a 'remnant' out there probably. There's only one Chief shepherd 1 Peter 5:4 who's at the center. I'm glad you are getting some help here.

beginagainrose

08-11-2009, 03:40 PM

So glad to hear you processing so well... you are doing great. Oh that I could of had this kind of insight early in my own healing journey! Even these early posts of yours will encourage others that enter in here. Lord bless you. You and your family are so on my heart. Never forget He is Lord of your rocking boat... you are wise to prepare... it will certainly get stormier before you see any rainbows! But they will come.... just keep your buckets handy and your LifeJackets snug! Blessings:)

Lvanett

08-11-2009, 05:44 PM

Hi Mom24

I just wanted you to know I'm praying for you in all of this.

Been there done that with leaving controlling churches. Every time I left one the only reasons I ever gave was that the Lord was leading me elsewhere and didn't tell them where, because I knew that would lead to trouble. I would never EVER have a "face to face" meeting with the Pastor because I knew that too would lead to trouble. Those kind of things are just control tactics.

The last time I left a controlling church, they tried to find out what church I went to (probably so they could warn them or give "their" version of events)...tried to find out exactly where I lived....and even told one of the other church members that they didn't believe there was another church I went to (when there really was) and a bunch of other nonsense I don't remember.

I find controlling churches are run more like businesses instead of ministries and that is the first of a series of big mistakes.

nicadaemus

08-12-2009, 06:05 AM

Every time I left one the only reasons I ever gave was that the Lord was leading me elsewhere and didn't tell them where, because I knew that would lead to trouble.

My old church was my first church (I was an atheist until 2002 and it was there I gave my life to Christ). I think that made it more painful. When I left, I wanted to tell everybody what had happened, what was going on behind closed doors without their knowing. I prayed and prayed. I had been praying for months already about leaving. God very clearly laid it on my heart to leave peacefully.

That last Sunday I stood in front of the church and told them God was leading me elsewhere to open new doors for my ministry. It was peaceful, and all those poor, unknowing folks came around and hugged me and shook my hand and told me they loved me. Even the pastor gave me one last good handshake.

Anything more that what I did would have turned it into a war. Ultimately I believe it would have destroyed any chance I had of finding another ministry had I pushed it. I have to keep reminding myself that I did that for God that day, and not because that pastor "won." Leaving peacefully I believe is the way that is most pleasing to God. We are better off leaving those pastors in God's care than trying to fix them ourselves.

beginagainrose

08-12-2009, 06:33 AM

I find controlling churches are run more like businesses instead of ministries and that is the first of a series of big mistakes.

I believe it is also the telling sign that money matters more than people. I was taught years ago; The world kingdom says: Love money; use people - The Lord's Kingdom says: Love people; use money

My SA Pastor to this day identifies himself as Senior Pastor/CEO (forgive me longtime members, I think I have shared this before)

mom24gr8tgirls

08-12-2009, 10:31 AM

Okay, functioning in the 'flesh' today.... very angry... want to expose all that is being done... know it is not right... and yet somehow my mind keeps messing with me trying to convince me that these people aren't all that bad, that I should just go sit under them to save the flock... (they told us if we leave we are accountable to God for all the people we are going to hurt and confuse) NO WORRIES... we are not going back... but every time I even speak that.... it's like something in me is taunting me that maybe God will have you go back...

I so badly want to send everyone the e-mail that we sent to the Pastor and let them know that if they have any questions that they can come directly to us ... and pull out the 'gossip card' like the Pastors do but don't live by.

I almost went to my 'Discipleship Group" this morning which is led by the Pastor's wife just to let the ladies know I was leaving and to let them know that any discussion about me in the group would be considered 'gossip'. A huge disclaimer that the Pastor's wife makes at any woman's event... Women gossip... it fosters that unspoken 'no talk' rule. I knew if I did I would be just like them... so I chose not to go... but at the moment wanted that fleshly satisfaction of doing it anyway.

Okay is it obvious that today.. my hurt has turned to anger... 'a woman scorned'..... yikes...

We have told some of our friends about the phone call the other night... but we haven't announced it to the multitudes. Although I have entertained thoughts of how I wish we would have recorded that phone call and some how piped it into service this Sunday!

And I also entertained the thought of going into the church and just sitting in the service... knowing now that they are not my authority... just because I know that.. they know ...we 'know' and it would be an intimidation tactic..just would love to see the horror on the Pastor's face when we walk in the door... the senior Pastor uses the Associate Pastor as his bulldog, so the Senior Pastor is the one afraid of conflict and confrontation.... but of course we are not going to do this...just putting my 'evil' thoughts out there for everyone to see... yes, I do have them...

I will have to make the choice very soon to get out of my 'flesh' and back into the Holy Spirit... let this ugly thing 'die' and choose to let HIM LIVE....

Thank you for the reminder that we need to leave peacefully.... this is what is honoring to God... lately I have been wanting to pray the Psalms over my enemies!!!! I figured if David did it, I can too?... but again... that would be in the 'flesh'.

Our daughters are hurt and angry... especially the one that the Pastor used as a weapon to demean my husband... he also stated about her that 'she has come along way this year'... using that statement to beat us and imply that her being under him has brought her a long way... it made me sick as I know that we have loved her and raised her in the way she should go for 17 years now and he wanted to get all the glory for any fruit in her life... it also hurt her and she wants to face the pastor (calling him pastor even sickens me at the moment... that title used to hold so much honor and reverence... but now... I'll be careful who I call Pastor)

What's crazy is that we have only been in this church a little over a year! How did this all get so crazy so fast?!

Please pray my husband is going to call the Pastor tomorrow ...he told him he would but he is calling to tell him that we will not be meeting with him and that he is to leave our family alone. I pray for the Spirit of the Living God to be all over my husband in that conversation and that he only says what the Father tells him to... no matter what is going on.

The world kingdom says: Love money; use people - The Lord's Kingdom says: Love people; use money

That is a great saying... never heard that before... but love it.

Hope 98

08-12-2009, 10:54 AM

Okay, functioning in the 'flesh' today.... very angry... want to expose all that is being done...

Don't be so sure that you're "in the flesh" just because you're angry. Anger is a valid response to what has happened. Don't you think that maybe even God is angry that people who are using his name and reputation are abusing you?

You seem to be making wise moves. Take care of yourself.

Jerry

08-12-2009, 11:14 AM

beginagainrose

08-12-2009, 11:35 AM

Welllllllllllllllllllllll.... as one who did not "leave peacefully".... ONLY BEcause the Lord said otherwise... all I can say here in listening to this is...is sounds very familiar... ya know what?... "ASK GOD and DO whatever HE tells you." There is a season for EVERYthing under heaven... a time for peace... and a time for war. (I am here for you. IF the Lord takes you to Joshua 6:10 But Joshua (type and shawdow of Christ!) had COMMANDed the the people, "Do not give a war cry, do not raise your voices, do not say a word UNTIL the day I TELL you to shout. THEN SHOUT!"... you will have your answer. The Lord took my husband to this verse and me, the very same morning...and in different rooms, when we came together after our QT to pray about whether we were to go back or not? Guess what? We knew God was saying go back... that is when we also started getting the "stand firm' everywhere we turned. Word, TV sermons, christian radio, songs...while everyone was telling us. "leave". That VERY morning after I said to my husband, "well, sometimes God calls us to shout at the Jericho wall until they fall down!"... he left for work... I turned on a local cable christian program... the hostess of the show had a woman on inteviewing her about the "Jesus' movement going on in the nation where christians were having "Jesus parades"... When asked why she felt led to start this movement?... she said, "Well... sometimes, Jesus just asks you to shout at Jericho wall until they fall down!"... then I fell down and sobbed... and said... Jesus... they will try to put me in jail... and ya know...that is just what they did... only it was a prison cell. BUT the day the guy showed up at my door to offer to hire a hit man to kill my pastor..?.. I heard so clearly, "Be careful what you say...he's wiired"... told ya it was a John Grishom novel! Hope this helps...let me know if I can help in any way. Rose;)

nicadaemus

08-12-2009, 11:38 AM

Wow, I still have "vindication fantasies" weekly. That's better than it was when they were daily! One of the things I think we can all wrongly inherit is that to be angry is to be "wrong" or "in the flesh." Trust me, I know anger can be dangerous. I used to foster a pretty hot temper before Christ saved me. However, our old controlling churches taught us to be angry was to be "in the flesh" and that if we were angry at the church leadership or God, we were totally wrong.

Please do me a favor, go over to Nehemiah 13 and the anger there and tell me if you think good ole Nehemiah was in the flesh. Before the chapter is over, he is smacking people around, pulling out their hair and tossing some stuff out of the temple. Then look over in John 2 when Jesus cleared out the temple. When he made a whip of cords and turned over the tables I don't think he was smiling and skipping and singing "Happy doo-da day." He was angry. Was he in the flesh? Nope, he was the sinless Lamb of God expressing the righteous anger of Heaven towards abuse in the church. Nehemiah was expressing that same righteous anger.

Now please, don't read me wrong. I am not saying go down to your church, kick open the door, fling over the pews, smack the pastor across the face and grab a handful of his hair. What I am saying is I believe God is ok with you being mad. I figure he is pretty mad at the stuff that happened to all of us. Talk to HIM about your anger. And yes please continue to talk to us about it.

The crazy thing is I have prayed the Psalms about crushing enemies and such over my old pastor. Then I'm like, "God, am I becoming a psychopath?" I've prayed for the man to turn his life around and then I've prayed for God to give him the boot. I can really relate to what you are saying. It's no fun, but we are there beside you, and even better, God is too! And he loves you deeply and I believe he grieves for the wounds still being inflicted on you and your family.

beginagainrose

08-12-2009, 12:02 PM

LOL! Nic... gee... I forgot to toss over those pews... oh, wait...they were chairs... and all hooked together... guess I am ok then!:D

beginagainrose

08-12-2009, 12:28 PM

Just one other thought M24... dont be too quick to relegate what you are "feeling" as "flesh"... thought you had some really good insights in your last post.:)

ex-shep

08-12-2009, 06:15 PM

Dear Mom24,,,
On reading your most recent post,I see your in the stage I call "Vindication Fantasy" ...... If only I could do or say just the right thing to make them all see their evil,,,,,,,,but it isn't our job to do that ;) Begin reading at Ecclesiastes 3/1 and to verse 17.Verse 17 is our comfort verse :)

Love Jerry

Romans 12 touches on this one. The closing verses suggest not to take vindication as God will judge in the end, so will do not have to. The AA big book is timely. The writers remind us that resentment is the # one offender. If one is any 12 step recovery, this can be slippery territory.

Anyone who follows my posts carefully will remember an account where I was fired by last employer for allegedly creating an unsafe environment for a female employee. I had to be thorough about working through my grief, which I was. I was angry at the way things turned out, but I knew I could not stay in resentment or I would drink. I had to force myself to forgive to forgive my former employer.

In the end, both of us were let go. Neither of us deserved it. The employee has been seen at church. The other thing that helped was the support along the way. I was also only out of work for three weeks, not bad considering northern Ohio has a 16 % unrecorded unemployment.

The wanted to get even at our former groups is understandable. It does fade with time. There is a tricky balance between processing the anger and having resentment own one.

I hope the feedback helps. If you want my post on withdrawal, anyone can respond and I will bring it forward.

mom24gr8tgirls

08-12-2009, 10:43 PM

You are all so awesome! You have no idea how much your responses are ministering to our family... my husband and oldest daughter are reading all the threads and are feeling that they are getting insight and wisdom and encouragement!

I spent the day with a friend... she prayed over me that all "Fear of Man" and "Man Pleasing' in me would be removed and overcome in Christ. It was such a freeing prayer and I know that God moved.

Believe it or not my heart softened for those Pastors... realized that they are just men running scared. They are losing people in their congregation consistently.... maybe they have ill intent but I have to believe that they are certainly being used by the enemy and are so deceived that they don't even know it. We must be aware of the fact that spirits and principalities can control people... even if we do love the Lord... but in saying all that... our family will not sit under that leadership..nor do I condone anything that they have done in the name of Jesus.

I was wavering again this evening, thinking that somehow we were wrong and they know better but the Lord really got a hold of me and was very firm in what He showed me... if I continue to waver after how the associate pastor spoke to my husband... I am not standing up for my husband, supporting him, edifying him for the MAN that he is... I am pleasing man or feeling the need to...also my children were deeply hurt and still trying to process all of this and I am questioning if we are to go back? That is messed up!!!! But thank you Lord... for revealing to me just how powerful these man pleasing and man fearing spirits are that have been driving me through so much of my life...

NO MORE... I will love others as Christ loves us and I will bow to no one but My Lord and Savior! He is on the throne.... through Him all grace abounds.

I will love my husband and my girls and one way I am to do that is to captivate those thoughts of questioning and renounce them.... I love my family and I would never, ever send my child back into any circumstance where they were being physically or verbally abused and so should that be with spiritual abuse as well... I am so grateful that the Lord is revealing to me these things...

We sat around the dinner table together tonight, watched a funny movie together and laughed out loud! ... medicine to the soul...

We had read a book..."so, you don't want to go to church anymore".. about a month ago... interesting how the Lord was preparing us... my oldest daughter just read it all yesterday.... she has embraced it and loves the concept of how we are to be the 'church'.... it is a great and easy read for anyone who wants to be encouraged and given hope to the fact that the Lord can work in many, many ways to build his kingdom.

Good night all... hope to connect again tomorrow... you are no doubt vessels of the Lord in restoring our hope in the truth of our Lord and mankind...

May you be blessed abundantly in all things.

Reg

08-13-2009, 05:29 AM

I spent the day with a friend... she prayed over me that all "Fear of Man" and "Man Pleasing' in me would be removed and overcome in Christ. It was such a freeing prayer and I know that God moved.

We must be aware of the fact that spirits and principalities can control people... even if we do love the Lord... but in saying all that... our family will not sit under that leadership..nor do I condone anything that they have done in the name of Jesus.
mom24gr8tgirls,

Here's a thread about what Real Authority is about and who has it. What you have been experiencing is False Authority.

False Authority
http://www.christianrecovery.com/vb/showthread.php?t=446&highlight=false+authority

mom24gr8tgirls

08-13-2009, 09:56 AM

mom24gr8tgirls,

Here's a thread about what Real Authority is about and who has it. What you have been experiencing is False Authority.

False Authority
http://www.christianrecovery.com/vb/showthread.php?t=446&highlight=false+authority

Thank you so much for that... you were certainly led by the Holy Spirit on that one because my next question to everyone was where do I get clarification on what real authority in the church is.... I have always had the scriptures that you used to talk about authority come back and pull me under rather than know in my heart they are called of God to lead... thank you.. I am praying that the Lord continue to open the eyes of us all on what His truth is on this matter.

mom24gr8tgirls

08-13-2009, 04:15 PM

My husband decided that he would text the associate pastor today instead of getting into some heated argument... so he texted..."not ready to talk to you, still deeply hurt by your attacks the other day, seeking wise counsel, may or may not talk with you at a later date"... I hope that was sufficient...

Talked to another woman in church... she said she has been flooded with ladies on Fb... trying to 'connect' with her... yet they haven't done this is 2 years since she started attending... so interesting... but trying not to focus on the 'church issues'...

took my girls out for lunch today... just to get out and relax together.

beginagainrose

08-13-2009, 04:40 PM

"M"ee... I just stand and applaud!!!... can you hear my clapping!? I am REjoicing over how and what you and your dear husband and daughter are doing and how WELL you are doing IT! I am REAL BIG on renouncing and declaring (my training years ago) and it WORKS! binding loosing... God's Word WORKS! I love to pray His Word and watch stuff happen... I am giddy w/delight for all of you... the only bummer in this deal for me is that you are not my next door neighbor! Kuddos to hubby for the texting idea... I have yet to use that feature on my cell phone! How PIT-E-FUL am I!?... but you should see me click n' drag!:D

Reg

08-14-2009, 05:01 AM

Thank you so much for that... you were certainly led by the Holy Spirit on that one because my next question to everyone was where do I get clarification on what real authority in the church is.... I have always had the scriptures that you used to talk about authority come back and pull me under rather than know in my heart they are called of God to lead... thank you.. I am praying that the Lord continue to open the eyes of us all on what His truth is on this matter.
Yes, it's truly amazing how much work the Holy Spirit is doing here. :p

Spiny Norman

08-14-2009, 01:10 PM

Believe it or not my heart softened for those Pastors... realized that they are just men running scared. They are losing people in their congregation consistently.... maybe they have ill intent but I have to believe that they are certainly being used by the enemy and are so deceived that they don't even know it.
When I read your first post (#1 in this thread), the immediate reaction that I had to your story was that your pastor was personally hurt and also scared. Having worked in the national administration side of churches, I have interacted with 100's and 100's of pastors. In my experience, almost all of them love the Lord, want to see the church prosper, etc. All good things. But in many of them, there are personal flaws; fears of "not succeeding", fears that their church will not grow, fear of rejection, and so on. They are typically surrounded by a culture (within pastoral ranks) that treats you (members of the congregation) as "their people". I've lost count of the number of times I have heard pastors ask:

-- what's happening in your church?
-- how are your people going?
-- have you got some really good key people?

Its understandable, as this is normal English language. But subtly they start to believe that you really are their person? It can become a control thing, and/or it can head down a path where they become emotionally reliant on you for seeing their vision for the church fulfilled (i.e. they see you as a key person through whom God will accomplish their vision).

I am not sure why this is, but I'm betting that they are human, just like us. I believe that many pastors take on a personal responsibility for "building the church" (whereas my Bible says that Christ builds the church). They treat the flock as if they owned the sheep, whereas the truth is that they are there to shepherd the flock for the owner of the sheep (who is Christ).

Looking at it from their perspective, if you and your husband are people that this pastor is perticularly emotionally reliant on within the life of the church, then they will probably perceive your leaving as a rejection of them personally ... and this may have caused them to lash out.

Hang in there!

luttrell03

08-14-2009, 01:58 PM

When I read your first post (#1 in this thread), the immediate reaction that I had to your story was that your pastor was personally hurt and also scared. Having worked in the national administration side of churches, I have interacted with 100's and 100's of pastors. In my experience, almost all of them love the Lord, want to see the church prosper, etc. All good things. But in many of them, there are personal flaws; fears of "not succeeding", fears that their church will not grow, fear of rejection, and so on. They are typically surrounded by a culture (within pastoral ranks) that treats you (members of the congregation) as "their people". I've lost count of the number of times I have heard pastors ask:

-- what's happening in your church?
-- how are your people going?
-- have you got some really good key people?

Its understandable, as this is normal English language. But subtly they start to believe that you really are their person? It can become a control thing, and/or it can head down a path where they become emotionally reliant on you for seeing their vision for the church fulfilled (i.e. they see you as a key person through whom God will accomplish their vision).

I am not sure why this is, but I'm betting that they are human, just like us. I believe that many pastors take on a personal responsibility for "building the church" (whereas my Bible says that Christ builds the church). They treat the flock as if they owned the sheep, whereas the truth is that they are there to shepherd the flock for the owner of the sheep (who is Christ).

Looking at it from their perspective, if you and your husband are people that this pastor is perticularly emotionally reliant on within the life of the church, then they will probably perceive your leaving as a rejection of them personally ... and this may have caused them to lash out.

Hang in there!

Hi Spiny. Thanks so much for your wisdom and experience here. I understand and can sympathize concerning the personal flaws of some of these leaders. We can of course all relate as we see that we're all triggered by our flaws in negative ways. We are all masters at manipulation, selfishness, inflicting hurt, etc..
I also understand that leaders are lifted in many instances to such high levels of status and responsibilities that it's eventually to their own hurt, at a level that no one can maintain.
The problem that I've had is not soo much about the flaws of the leader I had conflict with but the fact that I felt everything was covered up, denied and the blame and accusations put on others shoulders. That's what really bothered me back then. NOt about being imperfect, but about being dishonest and not coming out even after confronted by members of the church.
Anyways, I don't mean to contradict your ideas here. It's very right on and what one should consider when in such a conflict. I just wanted to share what was my struggle back then.