Setting boundaries vs. building walls

[luttrell03]

Hi. In our weekly meeting we're starting to discuss the ideas of godly friendships (true friendship) and relationships.
Many of us are in the practical realm a bit confused about this subject in light of our church experience and the different and unique levels of abuses,, and relating with past 'friendships' . It lead me to think also about the idea of boundaries.

Most of us post SA know about boundaries and trigger points all to well.
As we discuss in our group I notice 2 apparently conflicting themes (which in not bad) coming up. That of having and setting healthy boundaries and that of promoting or causing unecessary divisions (in light of the idea of brotherly unity).

What are some of the key components of healthy boundaries verses building unhealthy walls?
How do I know my boundaries set are biblical, healthy or are doing me and others personal harm?

Of course, I understand that there are different levels of friendships and relationships so it's a tricky topic. Just thought I'd throw it out there.

[Anna Marta]

Thinking.... sure wish you could come up with some hard questions...:rolleyes:

[ex-shep]

I would suggest Codependents Anonymous. They deal with overreaching relationships. They have a website. There are on line meetings. Melody Beattie's book Codependent No More is an easy but thought provoking read.

In our former groups, there were no boundaries. Rebuilding takes times take time, but it does come one day at a time. Hope the suggestion helps.

[luttrell03]

Thinking.... sure wish you could come up with some hard questions...:rolleyes:n

Yeah, I can see that there is really no concrete, black and white answer, seeing the complexity of relationships. Every relationship calls for a different approach.
Each of us chooses an emotional boundary choosing how we'll allow people to treat us or how close we'll allow them to get,,depending on many factors: character, influence, accountability, trustworthiness etc..

I know having personal boundaries; physical, emotional are essential to a healthy, balanced life. Abuse is the breaching of those boundaries.

There is a lot of teaching out there it seems that's saying that unity and 'unconditional love' calls for the breaking down of boundaries which cause division. But I see that even Jesus (God of love) had boundaries and avoided certain 'abusive' situations and systems.
Anyways, yep this difficult. Maybe it's better to leave this theme/thread on the shelf for a few more years.

[luttrell03]

I would suggest Codependents Anonymous. They deal with overreaching relationships. They have a website. There are on line meetings. Melody Beattie's book Codependent No More is an easy but thought provoking read.

In our former groups, there were no boundaries. Rebuilding takes times take time, but it does come one day at a time. Hope the suggestion helps.

Yes. This helped. I don't like to be an exclusive person, but I attend to avoid many past relationships at least physically because of their association and reminder of past SA.
I see that a lot of past relationships revolved around a codependency to leaders and it seems to a certain church culture that I feel was ultimately harmful. Now if I even hear the church language I tend to kring a bit and retreat in my shell. I don't want to reject others but I want to break away from the codepency I was involved in.
I'm not sure if this is just pride, reaction or if it's actually just a healthy process in restoring God's image in my life. Make any sense:confused:

[ex-shep]

Yes. This helped. I don't like to be an exclusive person, but I attend to avoid many past relationships at least physically because of their association and reminder of past SA.
I see that a lot of past relationships revolved around a codependency to leaders and it seems to a certain church culture that I feel was ultimately harmful. Now if I even hear the church language I tend to kring a bit and retreat in my shell. I don't want to reject others but I want to break away from the codepency I was involved in.
I'm not sure if this is just pride, reaction or if it's actually just a healthy process in restoring God's image in my life. Make any sense:confused:

I can relate to wanting to cringe around evangelical verbiage. I used to go nuts when I hear traditional Christmas carols. I worked in a department store for years. I thought I was being preached at.

Today I am in well respected evangelical church. They are unbending in their convictions, but find ways to be invited without ganging up on a newcomer. How did I get to where I am today? I had been away from church for a good long time. God tapped me on the shoulder, said that I had recovered enough, and it was time to go back. I nonchalantly said OK and the rest is history.

[Anna Marta]

I'm not sure if this is just pride, reaction or if it's actually just a healthy process in restoring God's image in my life. Make any sense:confused:

Makes perfect sense! :D

If ever I met someone without a big pride problem, I think it may be you, so cross that off! :cool:

Here is what I did.


I began by examining each of my relationships in regard to how deeply I am comfortable being transparent/trusting.



We all need a very close inner circle of people whom we know we can trust and with whom we have no problem sharing intimate issues and no reasonable fear of rejection or betrayal.
The next boundary area would include those persons with whom we can talk seriously and investigate issues and feel comfortable doing so. This would not necessarily involve intimate issues of our life.
From there comes those with whom we like to relax and have fun, play games, drink a beer etc.
After that for me, are acquaintances. These persons who I meet socially or public events, maybe even get invited to their home, however I am not comfortable being very open with them because we have little in common, but I do enjoy their company. Neighbors can fall into this category or fellow members of organizations or guilds.

This is a bit simplistic, but it works for me after learning how easily I got sucked into relationships that were actually dangerous because I assumed a closeness that was not authentic - because it appeared warm and loving?

Boundaries make good neighbors, like fences we know where I end and you begin.

Walls are designed to keep people out not help decide how close to bring them IN my life! BTW, fortresses have walls for a very good reason and there's nothing wrong with seeking protection behind them. There are people from whom we all need to protect ourselves.

Hope this helpful.

AM

[ex-shep]

Makes perfect sense! :D

If ever I met someone without a big pride problem, I think it may be you, so cross that off! :cool:

Here is what I did.


I began by examining each of my relationships in regard to how deeply I am comfortable being transparent/trusting.



We all need a very close inner circle of people whom we know we can trust and with whom we have no problem sharing intimate issues and no reasonable fear of rejection or betrayal.
The next boundary area would include those persons with whom we can talk seriously and investigate issues and feel comfortable doing so. This would not necessarily involve intimate issues of our life.
From there comes those with whom we like to relax and have fun, play games, drink a beer etc.
After that for me, are acquaintances. These persons who I meet socially or public events, maybe even get invited to their home, however I am not comfortable being very open with them because we have little in common, but I do enjoy their company. Neighbors can fall into this category or fellow members of organizations or guilds.

This is a bit simplistic, but it works for me after learning how easily I got sucked into relationships that were actually dangerous because I assumed a closeness that was not authentic - because it appeared warm and loving?

Boundaries make good neighbors, like fences we know where I end and you begin.

Walls are designed to keep people out not help decide how close to bring them IN my life! BTW, fortresses have walls for a very good reason and there's nothing wrong with seeking protection behind them. There are people from whom we all need to protect ourselves.

Hope this helpful.

AM

Give that poster a latte. That was good.

[Hope 98]

I would really like to see how this thread develops.

I understand and accept the concept of boundaries in theory but I have a lot of difficulty in translating them into concrete and practical terms.

I'll probably be working at this the rest of my life.

[ex-shep]

From one who has been at for nearly 25 years, one does get a bit seasoned with it. There are always new graduate level challenges, but worth the trial.
As they say in AA, it is a process not an event.

[simka2]

I really enjoy reading this thread and would love to throw out my 2 cents...first I like the analagy of fortresses with walls...and neibors with fences.

I think that there is a right time to built WALLS! When there is an enemy roaming about or when coming incntact with someone would be dangerous to you. Even if others don't agree...it's a good place to build walls. If the danger continues these walls will be reinforced. If the danger recedes I believe we will begin to explore the territority beyond them as we are either strong enough...or as need propels us.

Walls have a purpose...and unless we know we are safe it would be foolosh to get rid of them.

But...if there is a relative amount of safety...and our other needs need to get met...relationships...things like that...it may be time to look into building something more permiable like fences.

I think need will drive how strong our boundaires are. I also think this is a very sticky area...and some will need firmer boundaires than others.

If we take the fortress analogy again...the weak and defenseless are going to be in constant need of secure walls...while those that are strong can move about with more freedom. Also most of the time hospitals are behind strong lines of saftey...this is because the wounded need time and space to heal.

All of us want to be strong and healthy...something that concerns me is that even after what we've been thru will we try to define how strong others should be...what strength of wall/boundary should they have?

I don't think that's our job...I think that until we allow others to have the boundaires they think they need...they won't feel safe enough to live with simple fences.

Just my thoughts!

[luttrell03]

Walls are designed to keep people out not help decide how close to bring them IN my life! BTW, fortresses have walls for a very good reason and there's nothing wrong with seeking protection behind them. There are people from whom we all need to protect ourselves.

Hope this helpful.

AM

Yes, it was very helpful. After posting the thread I realized that boundaries and walls are not necessarily opposite things. Like you mentioned boundaries might look different in different situations. Any boundary should be fixed otherwise it wouldn't be taken seriously by would-be trespassers.
But, sometimes walls are necessary as in the case of abuse when someone is potential dangerous or actively doing it , physically, emotionally, spiritually.
etc..

The principle of walls as protection are a big theme in the Bible, especially the OT (Neh.). For good reason.

[luttrell03]

I really enjoy reading this thread and would love to throw out my 2 cents...first I like the analagy of fortresses with walls...and neibors with fences.

I think that there is a right time to built WALLS! When there is an enemy roaming about or when coming incntact with someone would be dangerous to you. Even if others don't agree...it's a good place to build walls. If the danger continues these walls will be reinforced. If the danger recedes I believe we will begin to explore the territority beyond them as we are either strong enough...or as need propels us.

Walls have a purpose...and unless we know we are safe it would be foolosh to get rid of them.

But...if there is a relative amount of safety...and our other needs need to get met...relationships...things like that...it may be time to look into building something more permiable like fences.

I think need will drive how strong our boundaires are. I also think this is a very sticky area...and some will need firmer boundaires than others.

If we take the fortress analogy again...the weak and defenseless are going to be in constant need of secure walls...while those that are strong can move about with more freedom. Also most of the time hospitals are behind strong lines of saftey...this is because the wounded need time and space to heal.

All of us want to be strong and healthy...something that concerns me is that even after what we've been thru will we try to define how strong others should be...what strength of wall/boundary should they have?

I don't think that's our job...I think that until we allow others to have the boundaires they think they need...they won't feel safe enough to live with simple fences.

Just my thoughts!

That's a big 2 cents. Nice idea; fences and walls. I agree that everyone must evaluate what their boundaries should look like according to their needs and capacities. Nobody can decide that for them. If we see it as our job to define others boundaries than we ourselves could be guilty of breaching another's boundaries.
Though I don't want to define others walls, sometimes I've had the desire to warn friends of the potential danger as a result of what I've experienced in church.
Again, that's another sensitive issue where you really have to evaluate the territory, where the person is at. Are they asking for help (opening the fence/wall) and feeling hopeless, etc.. I guess that's a different issue.

[Anna Marta]

But...if there is a relative amount of safety...and our other needs need to get met...relationships...things like that...it may be time to look into building something more permiable like fences.

I...the weak and defenseless are going to be in constant need of secure walls...while those that are strong can move about with more freedom. Also most of the time hospitals are behind strong lines of saftey...this is because the wounded need time and space to heal.


Wow Simka!

Your post speaks directly to so much of what has been kind of free floating around in my (empty) head.

"Fences" brings many things to mind... they can be built up, moved or taken down without much effort. One can peak over the top or even talk with others without being completed at risk... (revealed?).

To me boundary lines are /may be somewhat invisible to others than the property owner. Fences are visible reminders of a divide. Walls are are solid and clear signs not to breach (at your own risk?) Each has a different purpose as you mention and each is necessary in a healthy life.

I like that hospitals have walls... for the weak, sick, wounded and helpless. Sadly, that is exactly what the church is supposed to be... for those who come to find the Shepherd King.

This has turned out to be a meaningful and helpful thread for me.

Thanks to everyone
AM

[Yvonne]

I've been working specifically on that area for awhile now. "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend was a very good resource in helping me find balance in that area. BTW, I hope I don't sound preachy. This is one area that has been very helpful for me.

In church, many of the "leadership" talk against boundaries, but I've also noticed a similarity in personalities of those who do this--they are usually very outgoing, leadership-oriented, and very used to getting people to do what they want them to do. People who are working on boundaries are usually not as agreeable or complaint as assertive people want them to be--so I tend to dismiss their arguments.

"Boundaries" is a vague concept that probably means different things to all of us. For me, it means "personal boundaries"--it means that I am accountable and responsible for my relationships and social interactions, so I am taking control and making sure that what I do is in line with what is in my heart to do. I make sure that I want and chose to do things--that I'm not shamed, guilted, or manipulated into them.

The first step for me was to realize that I needed boundaries and I had a God-given right to have them. Abusers work by breaking down and penetrating natural boundary lines and they usually do it though through attacking belief systems--rebuilding healthy belief systems are probably the hardest part of the whole process. The rest comes easy after that. When I started to recognize those areas (usually lies rooted in shame, guilt, and a sense of being unlovable or unworthy), I could actively guard that area. Sharing specifics would be lengthy but if someone wants me to I will. ;)

Ways I enforce boundaries:

say "no" to things I don't want to do--I can always say "yes" later if I change my mind
saying "yes" to some things but negotiating parameters so that it is "win-win" for everyone
not taking on every job or role that comes my way
when taking a role or responsibility, learning how to "stay in my lane" and not take on responsibilities of others
not making any quick decisions--telling others "let me think about it", "let me check my calendar" or "let me ask my husband" have been good ways to buy time and then decide how I really feel about things
not jumping right into friendships--being very slow and careful about the level of relationship I build (being very deliberate)


When I think of unhealthy walls, I think of "all-or-nothing" thinking that either punishes others or results in me moving into social isolation. Those are the two things I try to avoid when establishing boundaries. I'm most tempted to try to punish or socially withdraw right after I've been hurt.

[Yvonne]

There are some really good things I've read from everyone. I like what simka2 and Anna Marta said about walls and even hospitals. It is okay for us to have boundaries--all of us have these invisible barriers.

Boundaries is an easier issue--this area of unity is harder for me. I scrutinize a lot of things. I also have some people that I stay away from and I'm very immediately skeptical of church leadership for obvious reasons.

I'm learning to "agree to disagree" and to keep much of what I think to myself. I really only share my thoughts about church issues with my husband and my best friend. I've learned the hard way that I can't talk about my issues about the church in the church--I have to have a good friend outside of the church that I go to.

[simka2]

Though I don't want to define others walls, sometimes I've had the desire to warn friends of the potential danger as a result of what I've experienced in church.
Again, that's another sensitive issue where you really have to evaluate the territory, where the person is at. Are they asking for help (opening the fence/wall) and feeling hopeless, etc.. I guess that's a different issue.


Actually I think this brings up an interesting issue :) going back to the stronghold w/walls analogy...if we saw someone standing in the open field who was about to get clobered by an advancing army then it is loving of us to say..."hey you do you see that thing advancing on you?!!!! Run in here!!!"

They might say..." Oh crud!! didn't see that!! THANKS!!!" Then again they might say..."what are you talking about? I don't see anything!" Then it would be a violation to drag them against their will. (I am of course speaking in analogy and this only goes so far...I fully realize that in real war situations there are times were it might be neccessary to drag someone against their will)

Right now I am studying Human Anatomy and Physiology...this got me to thinking...Do you know how many protective barriers God designed us with? It's incrediable!!!!

Skin which is selectively permiable...bones that encase our thoracic and cranial cavities...our immune system...a brain.

If taken down to the cellular level, you have a 2 layer memberane that encases each cell and 2 more layers that encase the nucleus...a host of enzymes that hunt for dangerous materials and destroy it.
I think the nucleolus (the very center of the nucleus) even has it's own boundaires. So @ the cellular level we have @ least 4 boundaires that have to be crossed!!!! Even then there are specific ways in which those boundaires can be crossed...specific channels, if you will :)

It looks to me like God thought boundaires were a good idea!!! From soft ones to firm ones.

Wow! I didn't realize we had this many designed boundaires till I started to write about it. It really makes me think about how God views it...I don't think he wants us to go around letting anyone who says their a Christian violate us...Idon't think that the one who created different types of boundaires would begrudge us different types of boundaires.

I guess this is now my 4 cents worth :)

[luttrell03]

Actually I think this brings up an interesting issue :) going back to the stronghold w/walls analogy...if we saw someone standing in the open field who was about to get clobered by an advancing army then it is loving of us to say..."hey you do you see that thing advancing on you?!!!! Run in here!!!"

They might say..." Oh crud!! didn't see that!! THANKS!!!" Then again they might say..."what are you talking about? I don't see anything!" Then it would be a violation to drag them against their will. (I am of course speaking in analogy and this only goes so far...I fully realize that in real war situations there are times were it might be neccessary to drag someone against their will)

Right now I am studying Human Anatomy and Physiology...this got me to thinking...Do you know how many protective barriers God designed us with? It's incrediable!!!!

Skin which is selectively permiable...bones that encase our thoracic and cranial cavities...our immune system...a brain.

If taken down to the cellular level, you have a 2 layer memberane that encases each cell and 2 more layers that encase the nucleus...a host of enzymes that hunt for dangerous materials and destroy it.
I think the nucleolus (the very center of the nucleus) even has it's own boundaires. So @ the cellular level we have @ least 4 boundaires that have to be crossed!!!! Even then there are specific ways in which those boundaires can be crossed...specific channels, if you will :)

It looks to me like God thought boundaires were a good idea!!! From soft ones to firm ones.

Wow! I didn't realize we had this many designed boundaires till I started to write about it. It really makes me think about how God views it...I don't think he wants us to go around letting anyone who says their a Christian violate us...Idon't think that the one who created different types of boundaires would begrudge us different types of boundaires.

I guess this is now my 4 cents worth :)

Man! That might be the euro to the dollar because that was even a bigger 4 cents.
Thanks for sharing that. I agree. God has set up a spiritual, physical, emotional immune system for us to protect us against killer viruses. I think when God covers a lot of ground on a subject in the Bible then you know that He means business and that it's important.
The warnings against false teachers, prophets, abusive leaders/pastors, etc. is a huge theme in the Word. Paul covers the subject in every Epistle directly except in Eph., although there he still says that we should not be carried away by every, 'wind of teaching'.
Jesus showed unconditional love, but yet He wasn't very tolerant/soft toward abusive leaders. Toleration goes alot with this theme of boundaries.
I think what exShep said was interesting, that in an abusive church boundaries are not set in a healthy way. Codependency is indoctrinated by the leadership so that they can freely come in and 'trample gardens'.

Some of our friends have probably at times considered us too intense concerning our view of our former church. I don't want to ditact boundaries to people, but as a friend, when the time is right, I feel obligated to tell them of the danger to the thought life, emotions, relationships, etc., by being under such an influence. Again, it's delicate ground that needs sensitivity, prayer, timing etc...
Thanks so much Simka.

[luttrell03]

There are some really good things I've read from everyone. I like what simka2 and Anna Marta said about walls and even hospitals. It is okay for us to have boundaries--all of us have these invisible barriers.

Boundaries is an easier issue--this area of unity is harder for me. I scrutinize a lot of things. I also have some people that I stay away from and I'm very immediately skeptical of church leadership for obvious reasons.

I'm learning to "agree to disagree" and to keep much of what I think to myself. I really only share my thoughts about church issues with my husband and my best friend. I've learned the hard way that I can't talk about my issues about the church in the church--I have to have a good friend outside of the church that I go to.

Yvonne. Thanks soo much. Your posts were incredibly helpful. As to your question, it is also one of mine.
Often I hear the idea that we should all be unified, not be devisive, but I think it's kind of a vague idea. I'm still wanting to learn about it.

I don't think unity means compromising healthy boundaries, nor even healthy walls. I'm still searching but I think the idea of unity, at least what the Bible's maybe talking about is a unity based on the Truth.
I also hope I'm not getting too preachy,, but I noticed that there is also the idea of dis-unity in the Word when again healthy boundaries are violated.
Jesus said, 'I did not come to bring peace but division.'
2Cor. 11:19-"divisions must come....". Sorry for the verses.

Great thoughts Yvonne. Learned a lot.

[luttrell03]

Learned a lot here. I wonder now, can one identify specifically a 'healthy' boundary as opposed to a not so healthy one? Maybe a stupid question. I just know in light of post SA it's not easy to guage my reactions or overreactions sometimes, etc..
I guess what I mean by an unhealthy boundary is one that might actually harm me, isolate me, etc.. more than protect me. I might try reading 'Boundaries' by Cloud, Townsend.
Of coure the perfect example of this is Jesus. He was abused yet still loved, reached out the world. Don't know exactly.
I ask that understanding people's real hurt and that the process of healing is not a perfect, steady thing. I/we shouldn't feel condemned of course. God gives us a lot of gracious room in the process.

[Anna Marta]

I just know in light of post SA it's not easy to guage my reactions or overreactions sometimes, etc..

I guess what I mean by an unhealthy boundary is one that might actually harm me, isolate me, etc.. more than protect me.

Gottcha Luttrell - reactions and overreactions can be a kind of way of life while going through the recovery process. For me, it was with hindsight that I was able to gauge what something was. You get better at it though... when your heart and mind begin to heal I think proactions begin replace re-actions.

Could an unhealthy boundary, for someone after SA may be, I will never enter or have anything to do with people in churches.

This could pretty much pare down one's existance as well as put an end to attendings weddings or other social events that are held in churches or worship centers etc. Kind of puts life in a box...

[analyzer]

There is a lot of teaching out there it seems that's saying that unity and 'unconditional love' calls for the breaking down of boundaries which cause division. But I see that even Jesus (God of love) had boundaries and avoided certain 'abusive' situations and systems.


boy, that is hitting home ..

having the same background I would like to add a "principle" that we were once "taught": the body of Christ is like a keg filled with grapes. As we rub each other the wrong way the grapes are getting crushed, (2.Cor 4:12a: "So then death worketh in us ...") but others benefit from the juice. (2.Cor 4:12b: "...but life in you").

Here are just a few of hundreds of examples how Jesus was setting boundaries:

Jn 2:24: "But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men"

Lk 11:27: "And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked."
In the next verse He turns down the flattery:
"But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it." ....

Yesterday I was reminded of a principle that the Lord gave me years ago: humility versus dignity. If I mix up the two, sooner or later I will become the victim of SA.

I was afraid to say "no" in a coercive environment, because I wanted to be "humble" and "submissive". But humility has nothing to do with "faggy" behaviour and agreeing with everything. If humility is misconstrued, I will loose my dignity and will end up in Prov. 25:28: "He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls".
I used to interpret this verse only in the context of addictive behaviour or bad temper. But now I see it also in the context of pleasing people.

Here is the key verse that is directly addressing people pleasers:
Prov 29:25 "The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe."

I never noticed the next verse, but this morning it was jumping at me from the screen:
Prov 29:26 "Many seek the ruler's favour; but every man's judgment cometh from the LORD."

I am comparing coercive people with a construction site. Construction sites are fenced off for safety reasons, to keep me from falling into a pit. If the fence is too close to the edge, the pit is still dangerous, however if the fence is too wide, I may exclude safe terrain and innocent people.

Just my 2 cents about the subject.

[luttrell03]

Boy, some powerful verses concerning boundaries.

having the same background I would like to add a "principle" that we were once "taught": the body of Christ is like a keg filled with grapes. As we rub each other the wrong way the grapes are getting crushed, (2.Cor 4:12a: "So then death worketh in us ...") but others benefit from the juice. (2.Cor 4:12b: "...but life in you").

I remember that principle. I think where it went wrong maybe in our case was there was no reconciliatory spirit or brokeness on the part of the leadership in all the 'wrong rubbing'. They merely played the Victim, as always, rubbed unjustly. It produced some sour wine in many cases that was just undrinkable.

I think a leadership can preach certain truths as pretty and as often as they want. But if they can't exemplify what they're teaching, at least in having a willing heart and putting themselves at the same level as the rest then they are not worthy to be trusted. They have earned from me a pretty nice fence (with a Rottweiler on the other side) if not a wall. :rolleyes:


[QUOTE]Yesterday I was reminded of a principle that the Lord gave me years ago: humility versus dignity. If I mix up the two, sooner or later I will become the victim of SA.

Great thoughts. Can it also be true the other way,,,,mix them up and I can easily become an abuser.

Those are some powerful verses on boundaries.

[Yvonne]

I guess what I mean by an unhealthy boundary is one that might actually harm me, isolate me, etc...Of coure the perfect example of this is Jesus. He was abused yet still loved, reached out the world. Don't know exactly.

I ask that understanding people's real hurt and that the process of healing is not a perfect, steady thing. I/we shouldn't feel condemned of course. God gives us a lot of gracious room in the process.

For me, I have two criteria that are firm. I still overreact, though. The first is that I evaluate to see if I am setting a boundary out of vengance or to "punish" someone. The other criteria is that I try to avoid descisions based on all-or-nothing thinking. Exreme pendulum swings are never right. I do have some boundaries that are there just because I want them there and I've come to believe that is okay. We all need a little space of our own. Also, I think boundary setting is a very personal thing--you may be okay with one thing while I may not be okay with it.

I usually set a "barricade" if I'm feeling anxious or threatened. I often can't immediately articulate why I feel that way but I don't want to ignore it. Then, I can move the barrier when I am comfortable. I regret not setting a boundary when I don't feel right about something more than I regret setting a hasty boundary.

Final thought--I found boudary setting to be a very purposeful and healthy act in and of itself. Prior to learning about boundaries, I had boundaries in place but I didn't exactly control them--they were protectionary reactions that controlled me. When I started evaluting and making purposeful choices about what I would allow and why, then I found I felt greater safety and ability to function in previously volatile places. Also, since it is very purposeful to do, I found I had the power to tighten or losen them as I chose.

Okay--the final thought--for real :p Just like anything, people can take the concept of boundaries and use misuse it, giving the concept a bad name. Some poeple use it for a way to protect unhealthy habits--but that doesn't make the concept less valid or helpful.

[Yvonne]

Analyzer--I'm adding Prov. 29:26 to my arsenal!

I think that's the sum of it--are we trying to please God or men? Are the men (leaders) trying to please God or themselves?

[Anna Marta]

some people use it for a way to protect unhealthy habits--but that doesn't make the concept less valid or helpful.


amen!

[luttrell03]

Great help Yvonne!

For me, I have two criteria that are firm. I still overreact, though. The first is that I evaluate to see if I am setting a boundary out of vengance or to "punish" someone.

Very good point.

The other criteria is that I try to avoid descisions based on all-or-nothing thinking. Exreme pendulum swings are never right.

Exactly. This is where I was a bit concerned about my own needs for distance in my situation. I realized early on that the pendulum had been set in motion by 'unfortunate circumstances' and that it was swinging wide. I think some of it is a little bit to be expected after a traumatic event. A very vulnerable time and dangerous for making decisions.
We were also accused of seeing things a bit too in extremes (could be so). Being a introvert, this caused me to look inside to see if I was seeing things too black and white and putting up unecessary boundaries.
Now that the pendulum is slowly subsiding my wife and I are feeling for the most part ok about some of the distances we've allowed, though we're willing to have God change things. Sometimes, in order to go forward you've gotta put something behind you, if you know what I mean.



I do have some boundaries that are there just because I want them there and I've come to believe that is okay. We all need a little space of our own. Also, I think boundary setting is a very personal thing--you may be okay with one thing while I may not be okay with it.

Great. It comes down to a personal walk I think. Maybe a line is hearing from God for myself instead of depending on someone else. Also, if I'm playing God in people's lives, than I'm definitely crossing lines. Thanks much

[Jerry]

There was a time in my life when I looked at "Boundaries" as impediments to my progress.Now looking back,I can see that many were set for my protection ;)