Friends and betrayal

[Minni]

Hello everyone.
I want to introduce myself. I call myself Minni.
I signed in in 2007 but this was very confusing for me because it is in a different language, and I had just come out of the church after being spiritually abused. I come from Norway in a small town. I am a teacher in drama and norwegian litterature and language.
Me and my husband have been worship-leaders for several years. We have been active members of different churches for years, until we started to experience the power pf abuse in 2000 actually. It took us 7 years to realize that it wasn't us there was something wrong with, so we finally left the church for good a couple of years ago.

We lost our "friends" our community and it had just been a game. When we quit playing the game, people did not care about us anymore.

I have been lucky, still having a wonderful couple that has also been goint throug the same things, and we have been slowly recovered together.

Now that I have introduced myself, I need som help with a friendship- issue.

Me and my husband were betrayed in January by a couple who is close to us, and it was about money. We lost a lot of money. We said to them that this was not right, but when they had just taken the money, they could just as well keep them. I forgave them and said that although I do not think you have been nice and that you have cheated upon us, we still like to be friends with you.

The woman, let me call her Dolly, said that it was too hard for her right now and she needed more time. That made me angry. WE were the one who lost the money, what is her problem?

Anyways. Now she has started to contacted me again.
I do not know what to do. I am not so sure if I want a relationship again with her. (My husband is clear that he is done with her husband, since it was about them, my husband working for him, and he did not get his money.)
My husband quitted working for him now.

BUT then I realize that I might be to eager to just get a closure. I am not really sure if I can do what I said that I would do to Dolly: "I still want to be friends, even though you cheated on us." Now I am not really sure. I am so tired, because they were the one who were there for us when we got out of the church and the "friends" there left us. We used to be so close. They ofcourse, do not think that they did anything wrong with the money, but as we called the insurance-company we knew that they had been betraying us, not only for money, but they refused to communicate about that.

So communication is an issue too here.
I am not sure what to do. I am not sure what I can do. Now, I do not really miss her that much as I did. But she keeps call me and text me like nothing ever happened. And that might be my fault too, since I said that I forgave her and still wanted to be friends, and now I am not sure if I can do that......The intimate friendship is gone, and I am not sure if I am able to trust her again or want a deeper relationship. Should I be honest with her about that? I do not want to play a game any longer, and I can not any longer put on a "happy-face" when we are together and pretend that nothing happened.....I am so confused and it doesn't help that I am a people-pleaser (trying to work on that!!)

Anyone who can help me here? Any suggestions?
Love Minni

[Anna Marta]

Hi Minni,

Welcome to the forum! Thank you for introducing yourself. Sorry to hear you had a hard time with the language and gaining entrance into our little community. Please don't worry about language or grammar no one comments on grammar issues and if we don't understand what you are trying to say, we will ask for clarification.

BTW, I too live in a small town in Norway only I am an American and I too have had a rough time in several churches and have about given up on the organized church as a place of safety.

I would like to ask you about your story. Would you be willing to tell us what happened exactly with this couple? You mention money, betrayal and an insurance company and that you told them to keep the money, but I am not sure what you are actually trying to describe. Maybe if you told "the story" of what happened I could be of more help?

It sounds like your husband is not interested in a relationship with this couple anymore. It sounds like you either like the gal or were just being polite or socially correct - saying the right thing to try to smooth over "the situation."

Being a "people pleaser" is something many of us continue to work on after being abused in a church.

Looking forward to hearing more,
Anna Marta

[Minni]

Hi Minni,

Welcome to the forum! Thank you for introducing yourself. Sorry to hear you had a hard time with the language and gaining entrance into our little community. Please don't worry about language or grammar no one comments on grammar issues and if we don't understand what you are trying to say, we will ask for clarification.

BTW, I too live in a small town in Norway only I am an American and I too have had a rough time in several churches and have about given up on the organized church as a place of safety.

I would like to ask you about your story. Would you be willing to tell us what happened exactly with this couple? You mention money, betrayal and an insurance company and that you told them to keep the money, but I am not sure what you are actually trying to describe. Maybe if you told "the story" of what happened I could be of more help?

It sounds like your husband is not interested in a relationship with this couple anymore. It sounds like you either like the gal or were just being polite or socially correct - saying the right thing to try to smooth over "the situation."

Being a "people pleaser" is something many of us continue to work on after being abused in a church.

Looking forward to hearing more,
Anna Marta

Hi. Thanks for greating me to the Forum. I know that I am among friends here. Please ask if there are things that is unclear about my language.
This is what happened:
My husband used to work for Clark. Clark and Dolly was very good friends.
My husband and another man, Steve, borrowed Clarks working car for a weekend. Steve used this car on his private as well. They were driving, and when my husband should drive, he accidently backuped and into a rock, and the door needen to be fixed. My husband agreed with Clark that he should pay the individual share, and they agreed that it was ok that my husband either worked for that or that he paid Clark the indivdual share which was on 4000 which is about 630 dollars. Three months later Clark just withheld my husbands salary, saying that he would lose his bonus and that his insurance would be more expencive next year because of the cash. SO on pay-day he just got an e-mail saying so, and he took 2825 dollars from that monthly payment. We could not believe that and called the insurance company and we got to know there that the car had been crashed twice before (by someone else) and that is why the next year insuranse would be that expencive. When we confronted Clark about that, he refused, saying we got it all wrong, and that was not the truth EVEN when we said that the insurance company told us what they did. In Norway it is normal that you pay the individual share if something happens to a car you borrow, and the insurance covers the rest. We also asked the insurance-company about that. Then did Dolly get angry and wrote me an e-mail saying that if we were not willing to pay the individual-share we might as well pay it all 8477dollars so they would not have to use their insurance-company. We asked if they wanted to come to speak with us, they refused, and everything was done by e-mail. This way of communicating was not normal for our close raltionship. Clark had already the money from before, since he never paid my husband. We said: "Fine, keep the money, but what you have done to us is not right and it is betrayal. It is not only about the money, but the way you NOT have communicated with us."

Now I am not sure if I want to continue this friendship.
I know I said that I forgave them, and wanted to be friends. My husband is not eager to be with Clark, but I am talking about me and Dolly here. I am not sure if I am able to trust here again, or if I want to. It is all weird when we are together, both pretending like nothing ever happened, but the closeness is gone.
She keep texting me and call me, and I am not sure what to do.

Minni

[hornblower]

So Minnie Im still not clear on one point here. Was it your husband that was driving when the wreck happened or his friend that was driving the car?

Insurance companies, here too in America, also will attribute other wrecks in on the fixing of a car, so that part I do understand.

Nevertheless in all of this situation, I would not continue the relationship with this woman.

I dont know about you but I have learned the hard way that my husband even though I dont like it a lot of times, is usually right about relationships with most people.
Especially anything work related. I would feel that it was comprimising my husband to have a relationship with her.

Besides she shunned you at that time. To me, now its her turn, if she can dish it out she'd better be ready to take it herself.

Case in point in my own life was my own sister. My real life sister. I let her go off on me I told her lets clear the air. So she did. Boy did she ever! She brought up things that had happened forty years ago.
Thats cool I said I was sorry right then and there and I am sorry of course I understand my own heart at that time and she didnt and could care less about how I was feeling.

My sister is entitled to her opinions about me. I prayed a long time about all of it. I didnt want to hurt her or bring up the way she had been towards my parents and their illnesses and the way she abandoned them and left me to tend to every single thing alone....... for years this went on.

Then one day as I was praying I opened my bible and there it was.......... big and black and written for all to see.

Tell them what they are doing wrong!

I dont know why but for some reason I had never ever done this type of thing except with myself.
Oh yes with me I am always somehow wrong!

She called again (my sister) and asked for another thing at an inoportune time, wanting more from me. Still in her (Ive done nothing wrong mode).........I blew up!

I let her have it and I can still let her have some more too if she ever calls me again.
Its over!
What did I do thats wrong? I trusted the wrong person with my heart. I have long been a victim and this is what victims do.
They keep on letting people victimise them.

Who can I trust? No one except God! Why should I trust God? God is the only one that can get inside of me, inside my heart, and know me and then even though I do things that are wrong, He forgives me for it. I dont want to do wrong things, like be angry and hate people, I want to always be perfect but in Gods way of doing things He knows I cant be perfect so He gave me Jesus to be perfect for me.
Its not a way out. On the contrary........for me its like Gods love gives me a break, so now I need to learn to give myself one too.
As I continue to do this I am hoping that I will grow in Gods love. Learn to love the way He loves.

God doesnt victimise anyone. God doesnt hurt people. People hurt people.
But God doesnt get down from His cross and run after people begging them to love Him.
You either love Him or choose not too.
Its up to you to do what you think is wise in this case. You are free to hear from God because He loves you Minni.

Some people are just going to have to find their own way without me.......I cannot save this world, Jesus already did it for me. Im trying to stick to this lonliness because I have found its saving my life. Without it I want to die from the pain people cause me. I have to get a divorce from them you see? If I dont take good care of myself I will cease to exist. Im trying to learn how to do this one day at a time.

[JaniceB]

Welcome, Minni. I'm glad you're here and I think your English is great! It's lots better than my Norwegian which is limited to a few naughty words that Anna Marta taught me. Please don't worry about it at all.

With the information you've given I'm kind of with Hornblower: you don't need a friend like this. If she came to you and said, "I was wrong, I was supporting my husband but he was wrong.." something like that, yes, but I doubt somehow that is going to happen. What do you think? That's what's most important.

[Anna Marta]

It's lots better than my Norwegian which is limited to a few naughty words that Anna Marta taught me.

Guilty as charged! :D

I believe no one's education is complete until they can grasp the most basic forms of communication... :cool: I am taking Janice's educational needs quite seriously.

AM

[Minni]

Thank you so much for answering me. What you said: Some people are just going to have to find their own way without me.......I cannot save this world, Jesus already did it for me. Im trying to stick to this lonliness because I have found its saving my life. Without it I want to die from the pain people cause me. I have to get a divorce from them you see? If I dont take good care of myself I will cease to exist. Im trying to learn how to do this one day at a time. makes a lot of sense. I think that I need to learn how to divorce myself from people that hurt me. But then again, this woman, has been a good friend for so long, and things are not black and white, like she is evil or anything. But in THIS case they betrayed us. Do you think I should talk to her more about it, or just simply stop answering her, and slowly draw away? And I am feeling gulity no matter what I am doing. Maybe it some kind of the abuse stuff?
__________________


So Minnie Im still not clear on one point here. Was it your husband that was driving when the wreck happened or his friend that was driving the car?

Insurance companies, here too in America, also will attribute other wrecks in on the fixing of a car, so that part I do understand.

Nevertheless in all of this situation, I would not continue the relationship with this woman.

I dont know about you but I have learned the hard way that my husband even though I dont like it a lot of times, is usually right about relationships with most people.
Especially anything work related. I would feel that it was comprimising my husband to have a relationship with her.

Besides she shunned you at that time. To me, now its her turn, if she can dish it out she'd better be ready to take it herself.

Case in point in my own life was my own sister. My real life sister. I let her go off on me I told her lets clear the air. So she did. Boy did she ever! She brought up things that had happened forty years ago.
Thats cool I said I was sorry right then and there and I am sorry of course I understand my own heart at that time and she didnt and could care less about how I was feeling.

My sister is entitled to her opinions about me. I prayed a long time about all of it. I didnt want to hurt her or bring up the way she had been towards my parents and their illnesses and the way she abandoned them and left me to tend to every single thing alone....... for years this went on.

Then one day as I was praying I opened my bible and there it was.......... big and black and written for all to see.

Tell them what they are doing wrong!

I dont know why but for some reason I had never ever done this type of thing except with myself.
Oh yes with me I am always somehow wrong!

She called again (my sister) and asked for another thing at an inoportune time, wanting more from me. Still in her (Ive done nothing wrong mode).........I blew up!

I let her have it and I can still let her have some more too if she ever calls me again.
Its over!
What did I do thats wrong? I trusted the wrong person with my heart. I have long been a victim and this is what victims do.
They keep on letting people victimise them.

Who can I trust? No one except God! Why should I trust God? God is the only one that can get inside of me, inside my heart, and know me and then even though I do things that are wrong, He forgives me for it. I dont want to do wrong things, like be angry and hate people, I want to always be perfect but in Gods way of doing things He knows I cant be perfect so He gave me Jesus to be perfect for me.
Its not a way out. On the contrary........for me its like Gods love gives me a break, so now I need to learn to give myself one too.
As I continue to do this I am hoping that I will grow in Gods love. Learn to love the way He loves.

God doesnt victimise anyone. God doesnt hurt people. People hurt people.
But God doesnt get down from His cross and run after people begging them to love Him.
You either love Him or choose not too.
Its up to you to do what you think is wise in this case. You are free to hear from God because He loves you Minni.

Some people are just going to have to find their own way without me.......I cannot save this world, Jesus already did it for me. Im trying to stick to this lonliness because I have found its saving my life. Without it I want to die from the pain people cause me. I have to get a divorce from them you see? If I dont take good care of myself I will cease to exist. Im trying to learn how to do this one day at a time.

[Minni]

Ps: It was his friend that had borrowed the car, but my husband who drove it when it wreced, and of course we offered to pay the individual cost and the insurance company would cover the rest. Thank you so much for answering me. What you said: Some people are just going to have to find their own way without me.......I cannot save this world, Jesus already did it for me. Im trying to stick to this lonliness because I have found its saving my life. Without it I want to die from the pain people cause me. I have to get a divorce from them you see? If I dont take good care of myself I will cease to exist. Im trying to learn how to do this one day at a time. makes a lot of sense. I think that I need to learn how to divorce myself from people that hurt me. But then again, this woman, has been a good friend for so long, and things are not black and white, like she is evil or anything. But in THIS case they betrayed us. Do you think I should talk to her more about it, or just simply stop answering her, and slowly draw away? And I am feeling gulity no matter what I am doing. Maybe it some kind of the abuse stuff?
__________________

[Minni]

Thanks Janice B! I guess Anna Marta told you some bad words huh! :DAfter coming out of the church I have actually started to use them. It kind of feels good..

I do not need a friend like this, you said. And I agree, but feel so guilty if I let her go when I have said that I have forgiven her! And when we meet or talk on the phone, it is a weird "thing" an aquard thing there, like the intimity is gone. Any suggestion how I should break the news to her? Should I call her say that it is to hard for me after we were so betrayed, or just let it fade out? People pleaser needs closure, and I know that I need to work on that, but I am not sure how. Thanks for understanding my English and for answering me. I feel blessed that I can talk to someone who understands me here on this forum.

Welcome, Minni. I'm glad you're here and I think your English is great! It's lots better than my Norwegian which is limited to a few naughty words that Anna Marta taught me. Please don't worry about it at all.

With the information you've given I'm kind of with Hornblower: you don't need a friend like this. If she came to you and said, "I was wrong, I was supporting my husband but he was wrong.." something like that, yes, but I doubt somehow that is going to happen. What do you think? That's what's most important.

[simka2]

I just wanted to add my 2 cents here :) When we are spiritually abused the term "forgivness" is often used to control us. Sometimes we rush forgivness...because we think we have to...I think this leads us into a false forgivness. It's okay to be angry. It's okay to not want to be friends with someone.

Eventually when we've allowed ourselves to process thru the emotions we can come to a place of true forgivness and letting go (hope that wasn't to trite :))

It's also difficult to have a real relationship with someone who is not sorry theu hurt you. Now...I don't know if she is or isn't...but it sounds like a one sided friendship.

I'm sorry your in this right now! It sounds like you have been thru a lot...and that is hard all on it's own :) Take gentle care of you!

[Reg]

Welcome Minni.

friend (frènd) noun
1. A person whom one knows, likes, and trusts.
2. A person whom one knows; an acquaintance.
3. A person with whom one is allied in a struggle or cause; a comrade.
4. One who supports, sympathizes with, or patronizes a group, cause, or movement: friends of the clean air movement.

She sounds like #2 to me.

In this life we are fortunate to have at least one in the #1 category.

I am fortunate to have more than one.

[Anna Marta]

What a creative way to lay things out Reg. Gave me some good chewing material...

You are special, in a good sense of the word, of course! :):)

[Minni]

Thank you. Maybe I do not even know what forgiveness is, because it has been misuesed so many times. Maybe I just need to be honest with her, saying "that the trust is gone, so it is hard for me to be together with you. Yes, you are right about forgiveness can control us. Forgivenes is not a feeling, but giving the need of revenge to the Father, isn't it so? The need for revenge is not there, now I am not sure if I can feel safte with them. But how on earth can I tell her that? And some people have said to me that: "If you are truly free, you can be with them, because they do not threaten you." You are so right; it is a one-side friendship. She does not seem sorry at all because in her eyes she and her husband did not do anything wrong. One more thing that is hard, and that is that me and my husband are going to celebrate our 30-year old birthday together. None of us wants to invite them, but since this man invited us to his party, we feel kind of obligated to invitate back. But it is like they both want the same friendship as it was, because they do not bring up the issue anymore. Last week she sent me an sms, telling me she was pragnent, and just had found out. It sounds to me that she wants the deep relationship, and you do not give that information out to someone who you do not want to be close to. Maybe I am betraying her, by cutting her off and cut off the friendship? Or maybe am I being manipulated with her sms'? I want to thank you for wonderful words, they are healing to my soul. "I just wanted to add my 2 cents here :) When we are spiritually abused the term "forgivness" is often used to control us. Sometimes we rush forgivness...because we think we have to...I think this leads us into a false forgivness. It's okay to be angry. It's okay to not want to be friends with someone.

Eventually when we've allowed ourselves to process thru the emotions we can come to a place of true forgivness and letting go (hope that wasn't to trite :))

It's also difficult to have a real relationship with someone who is not sorry theu hurt you. Now...I don't know if she is or isn't...but it sounds like a one sided friendship.

I'm sorry your in this right now! It sounds like you have been thru a lot...and that is hard all on it's own :) Take gentle care of you!

[Anna Marta]

When it comes as to whether to end a relationship there are rarely any simple, guilt-free answers.

I sense that there are some deeper things going on in connection with this situation, for example coming to terms with an understanding of forgivness.

There may not be any underlying abuse issues with your friend only her immaturity and inability to understand the consequences for her actions. You have to answer some questions for yourself when it comes to this friend.


How much did/does she mean to you as a person in your life?
Is reconciliation an option at all or is this a one sided situation where you are expected (or feel the pressure) to overlook the fact that she refuses (or cannot) to see that because of this your trust in her is compromised.
Do you want to reconcile? If so, are you willing to sit down and talk without using emails in the effort to clear the air and begin again?
Forgiving someone who does not think they need to be forgiven - because they refuse to acknowledge any wrong doing - means doing what you can do in your own heart and walking away, then letting time heal the memories and making the most of what the wound has shown or taught you.

I hope you come to terms with this and will keep you in prayer as you work it out.
AM

[Minni]

You hit that right on the mark. It is a category 2. But it seems that they want a deeper realtionship without talking about what happened, and to me that is like playing a game.
Welcome Minni.

friend (frènd) noun
1. A person whom one knows, likes, and trusts.
2. A person whom one knows; an acquaintance.
3. A person with whom one is allied in a struggle or cause; a comrade.
4. One who supports, sympathizes with, or patronizes a group, cause, or movement: friends of the clean air movement.

She sounds like #2 to me.

In this life we are fortunate to have at least one in the #1 category.

I am fortunate to have more than one.

[Minni]

Yes, there might be some deeper things, but I am not sure what they are about, maybe it is forgiveness, I do not know. All I do know is that I do not miss her, and I do not trust her. I miss who she WAS, but not that I know what she is capable of. You said:
There may not be any underlying abuse issues with your friend only her immaturity and inability to understand the consequences for her actions. I think that is right BUT how can she even understand the conseqenses of her actions if I am just smiling and playing the game. Maybe she needs to know that the consequense is that she lost me.
About the questions:
1. Right now, she doesn't mean a lot to me.
2. It seems that reconcilitiation is only an obtion if I play the game or say that they were right. But that is not true reconciliation, is it?
3. They have said that they do not want to bring this up again. Now, I am not sure if I have the streinght to. It is easier for me (emotionally and when it comes to energy) to just let it go. Because it is no point doing this with only her, and my husband is not interested in any relationship whatsoever.
3. About forgiving, maybe I think it is the best to walk away, and work on this myself. But how do I tell her that I can not trust her anymore?

This is really draining me, and I have so much anger and confusion and I just want it all to be gone.

Thanks AM, you rock!:)

How much did/does she mean to you as a person in your life?
Is reconciliation an option at all or is this a one sided situation where you are expected (or feel the pressure) to overlook the fact that she refuses (or cannot) to see that because of this your trust in her is compromised.
Do you want to reconcile? If so, are you willing to sit down and talk without using emails in the effort to clear the air and begin again?
Forgiving someone who does not think they need to be forgiven - because they refuse to acknowledge any wrong doing - means doing what you can do in your own heart and walking away, then letting time heal the memories and making the most of what the wound has shown or taught you.

I hope you come to terms with this and will keep you in prayer as you work it out.
AM[/QUOTE]

[simka2]

When I left my spiritual abuse situation I had a friend like this...in fact she was used by my pastor to really hurt me. I didn't trust her or even speak to her for almost 2 years. About 3 months ago I found her on facebook and since we were liveing in the same city decided to try coffee with her. Truth was I wasn't ready for the friendship...I didn't feel safe with her!
Last week she sent me a message asking when we could meet, somehow I knew something was different with her. We met and talked for hours it was good and healing...I still struggle with feeling unsafe even at the thought of a friendship with her...but were getting there.

Truth was I was finally ready...but this is something that takes time! Don't force yourself! It will happen if it's meant to.

[Yvonne]

Minni,

The guilt thing--yeah--that might be something to watch.

I don't know the situation other than how it is described and I'm sure there are so many things intertwined. If you feel guilty or have regret after contact, then drawing back might be good--not to cut off or punish, but because the situation is just not healthy for you.

I have a couple of friends who overstepped boundaries. I still have them as friends but I have had to be honest about what I expect of them. Sometimes people are just not capable of being what we need them to be.

[Anna Marta]

Minni,
If you feel guilty or have regret after contact, then drawing back might be good--not to cut off or punish, but because the situation is just not healthy for you.

Sometimes people are just not capable of being what we need them to be.

Well said Yvonne.

There is a difference between cutting off to punish and cutting off to set healthy boundaries.

Minni,
It also seems to me that this is more conmplex than just you and your friend (the wife) because it is a "couple thing" problem.

There really is no way to get around having to experience some kind of negative feelings regarding this situation. The question for you may very well be:
Which bad feelings am I willing to tolerate?


Those surrounding setting a boundary and all that involves?
Those surrounding, as you put it, "playing a game"?

Only you can make that decision.
AM

[Minni]

Yes, and I see thins more clearly now. I have problems to sleep and having angerproblems because of this. I think I need to end this for my own health, and then let it be up to her if she wants to admit her wrongdoings and reconcile. :) I guess that was hard for you, meeting this girl again. Facebook can be both a good thing a negative thing when it comes to abuse and friendship and betrayal.

When I left my spiritual abuse situation I had a friend like this...in fact she was used by my pastor to really hurt me. I didn't trust her or even speak to her for almost 2 years. About 3 months ago I found her on facebook and since we were liveing in the same city decided to try coffee with her. Truth was I wasn't ready for the friendship...I didn't feel safe with her!
Last week she sent me a message asking when we could meet, somehow I knew something was different with her. We met and talked for hours it was good and healing...I still struggle with feeling unsafe even at the thought of a friendship with her...but were getting there.

Truth was I was finally ready...but this is something that takes time! Don't force yourself! It will happen if it's meant to.

[Yvonne]

I wanted to put this out there for anyone interested. Not long after discovering that spiritual abuse had a name, I heard of another book and author that has been immensely helpful. It is the book Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend.

With abuse of any kind, the abuser distorts natural boundary lines to get what they want. Understanding that God has boundaries and that healthy children of God should have boundaries too was incredibly liberating. It gave me the power to say "yes" or "no" to people who otherwise seemed to jump in and cause problems every time I made a step forward. It didn't fix everything, but understanding that there were limits that I could enforce helped me get more space and time to sort things out.

[Yvonne]

Minni--

I wish peace for you. It doesn't sound like you have peace over it all.

Someone who loves you and is repentant will understand if they can't get instant access back to the former relationship--they know they broke something precious. If they don't understand, then I'm guessing that they're still "dangerous".

I hope and pray you find an answer that brings you peace. My husband taught me that--he always says "follow the peace".

[Minni]

Thanks Yvonne. I need to follow the peace. I have decided to not play a game with her anymore. Now, is the hardest part: How do I say it. Do I just pick up the phone, or do it by e-mail (which can be a cowerd-thing to do), or just wait until she sms's me or calls me again......Minni--

I wish peace for you. It doesn't sound like you have peace over it all.

Someone who loves you and is repentant will understand if they can't get instant access back to the former relationship--they know they broke something precious. If they don't understand, then I'm guessing that they're still "dangerous".

I hope and pray you find an answer that brings you peace. My husband taught me that--he always says "follow the peace".

[Jerry]

Thanks Yvonne. I need to follow the peace. I have decided to not play a game with her anymore. Now, is the hardest part: How do I say it. Do I just pick up the phone, or do it by e-mail (which can be a cowerd-thing to do), or just wait until she sms's me or calls me again......

Dear Minni,,,
I have reviewed all the posts in this thread and have given it much thought.Be thankful that it wasn't even more expensive to find out the true nature of this friendship.Obviously they were the best friends money could "buy" ;) ........I wouldn't worry about how you end it ,,,,,,they weren't worried about you very much.I would just tell the woman to "Buzz-off" followed by a few more "colorful metaphors" ;)
Love Jerry

[Minni]

You are so right Jerry. The worst thing is that I am afraid to hurt her feelings!! WHy on hearth should I be that? She would be so surprised and would not understand it at all. I guess that is her problem. I have decided to wait until she contacts me again, and then tell her the truth then.
Hopefully she understand that something is wrong since I do not take any contact with her, and maybe she will just stop taking contackt herself. ...If not, I need to tell her to buzz off..Love Minni

[Voyager]

Minni,

I admire your ability to learn the English language in a short time.

I rarely come here anymore but I dropped in and saw your post and felt like replying.

When we leave spiritual abuse we usually lose our spiritual community and our support system, and many times there is an element of betrayal that is involved. That makes us feel desperate to find anyone or anything to fill that void. There are two things that this desperation for community can do to us:

1. In our desire to replace the missing friends and support system, sometimes we drop our standards to a lower level and accept friends that may be less than trustworthy.

2. When we were betrayed by spiritual abuse, our ability to trust people was damaged. Sometimes we trust too much, and sometimes we cannot trust at all. We feel trapped between concerns of being betrayed and/or rejected again and wanting to trust again.

Because of #1 and #2 we tend to isolate and just give up on trying to find new friends to replace the lost ones - or we become willing to trust people who are not trustworthy. The betrayal from spiritual abuse can permeate our soul and make us feel like every relationship we have could end in betrayal, so we don't want to try again - but we cannot bury the desire to make friends and try to reconnect with society. Sometimes we worry that we will only attract people who will betray us again. But that is not true, it is just a feeling.

My wife and I have slowly picked up a few trustworthy friends over the years, but we are not willing to compromise our values to make friends - even though our hearts ache for them at times. That is the big problem... we want to find friends to replace the ones who betrayed us... but the feeling of that huge betrayal is still stuck in our memories. It's not easy to figure out what is really worth being concerned about and what is worth overlooking.

Many of us have dealt with this horrible predicament, so understand that you are not alone. It is a difficult thing to deal with. You have done a very wise thing by posting your question here and considering the different opinions that have been posted before you make your decision. It is not an easy decision to make when you are considering cutting off a person whom you once considered a good friend.

Maybe you could tell her that you want to be her friend, but that you feel that your trust has been violated and it will take time to heal. I think she would accept that, and if she is truly a friend, she will work to try to repair the wound.

:cool:

[Minni]

Thank you Voyager. Thanks for the compliment about my English. I learned English at school, so I know the "school-English". My best friend is from America, living in Norway, so I think I speak better than I write. :-) You are so right. My problem is that these firends that betrayed us now, were the once that stood by us when we were spiritually abused in the church. They said all the right thing, comforted us, but when it was about THEM and MONEY, they showed their real face. I have to admit that I do have a problem with trust now. But my counseller said that might not be a bad thing, because I have been too "nice" meaning that I would have given my head away and apologized for not giving my body too! Then i am having a hard time with this lady who is my neighbour as well, who wants to be my firend, but is in a Charismatic church, and her black/white thinkiing makes me want to stay away from her. I do not think it is healthy to be with "them" while I am detoxing, I am not even sure if I ever want to be friends with such people again. Somehow I got to tell her that we do not go well together. I thought firendship-issues were kids-stuff, but I guess I was wrong.

Love Minni