Reg
06-02-2009, 01:23 PM
Hi Carmen,
Here's the book I mentioned. Finished it at the cottage.
KINGDOMS IN CONFLICT - Charles Colson
pg 47....Christianity provided a transcendent spiritual end which gave Western culture its
dynamic purpose. It furnished the soul for Western civilization & provided its moral
legitimization.... “The firm principles which could mediate between the individual & society to
provide both with a sense of proportion & responsibility in order to inform behaviour.”
John Adams wrote, “Our constitution was made only for a moral & religious (Christian) people.
It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other.
Today, increasing numbers of thinkers, even those who reject orthodox faith, agree that a religious-value consensus is essential for justice & concord. (Moral values)
“To disregard the historic Western consensus about the role of religion in culture is to ignore the foundation of our civilization.”
Men and women need more than a religious value system. They need civic structures to prevent chaos & provide order.
“Both the City of God & the city of man are vital to society - and the must remain in delicate balance........wherever they are out of balance, the public good suffers.”
Pg 90.... “crime is not the result of environment or poverty, but wrong moral choices.”
Pg 91....”The state is not a remedy for sin, but a means to restrain it.”
Pg 92....”In the Judeo-Christian view, law is rooted in moral absolutes that do not vacillate with
public taste or the whim of fashion.”
Pg 94...”This is why the Kingdom of God has had such an astonishing effect upon the most
powerful of human empires in every age. It is not a blueprint for some social order; nor does it
merely set the forces of radical cultural change in motion. Rather, God’s Kingdom promises radical changes in human personalities.
This is the crucial point. “While human politics is based on the premise that society must be
changed in order to change people, in politics of the Kingdom it is people who must be changed in order to change society.”
Pg 113....Can we conclude from this cursory overview that the church & the state must inevitably
be in conflict? To some extent the answer it yes. Dual allegiances always create tension. And in a
sinful world the struggle for power, which inevitably corrupts, is unavoidable. When the church
isn’t being persecuted, it is being corrupted. So as much as anything else, it is man’s own nature
that has created centuries of conflict.
But every generation has an obligation to seek a healthy relationship between church & state.
Both are reflections of man’s nature; both have roles to play. Christ’s teachings clearly delineates
these roles.
Pg 114....In God’s provision the state is not to seize authority over ecclesiastical or spiritual
matters, nor is the church to seek authority over political matters. Yet, the constant temptation of
each is to encroach upon the other.
*Oscar Cullman has written, “According to the Jewish, as to the early Christian, outlook - the
totalitarian state is precisely the classic form of the Devil’s manifestation on earth.” (“The State
of the New Testament”)
pg 118.... The crucial dynamic in the church-state tension is separation of institutional authority.
Pg 119.... “Nothing can be a true religion but a voluntary obedience unto His revealed will, of
which each rational soul has an equal right to act in all religious affairs according to the full
persuasion of his own mind.” (Comment by the Baptist minister Isaac Backus)
*One phrase in James Madison’s “Memorial & Remonstrate” presented to the Commonwealth of
Virginia in 1785, succinctly sums up the thinking of the Founding Fathers “......that Relgion or
the duty we owe our Creator and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason &
conviction, not by force or violence. The Religion of every man must be left to the conviction &
conscience of every man/woman; and it is the right of everyone to exercise it as these may
dictate.”
Pg 120.... It was this thinking that led to the First Amendment expressly to protect the individuals
right to freedom of conscience & expression, & to protect the establishment of a state church....
“A nation under God” was no idle phrase.
Pg 182.... in a spiritual vacuum, man can pursue only two options; first, to imagine that they are
gods themselves, or second, to seek satisfaction in their senses.”
Pg 197.... Collaboration with power, whether Communist or not, is always ruinous for the
church. If the church exists, it is to have legitimacy in the eyes of the people, it must always stand
erect as a counter-power to political power.”
Pg 202.... Today they (the churches in Nicaragua) resist the left’s demands to identify the gospel
with “equality, justice & peace.” They demonstrate the first law of survival for the church under
pressure from secular authorities: Do not legitimize tyranny. Remain aloof from the
enticements & threats of secular authority. Be faithful to God alone.
Pg 208... “When an institution that is voluntary in membership cannot define the conditions of
belonging, that institution in fact ceases to exist.”
Pg 211.... “......unilateral devotion to the concept of neutrality can lead to...not simply noninterference & nonviolence with the religious which the Constitution commands, but a brooding & pervasive devotion to the secular & a passive, or even active, hostility to the religious.” (especially Christianity) Confining it to a “neutral status” devoid of any inherent meaning.
Pg 212... The ideas of Nietzsche, Freud & Darwin finally set off an explosion of relativism. All
moral distinctions were equally valid & equally invalid since all were equally subjective.
(This is the new definition of what it means to be tolerant. ALL VALUES ARE EQUAL.)
Pg 213... There are no lasting values, no timeless truths, only artifacts of the moment.
(This is relativism’s principal tenant.)
Pg 214... Pascal’s second option has thus become the route of western experience: “Separated
from God, men must seek satisfaction in their senses.” This is more than mindless hedonism; it is
a world-view in which, according to professor Allen Bloom, “the self has become the modern
substitute for the soul.”
A 1985 study titled, “Habits of the Heart” calls this attitude “utililtarian individualism”.... What
this study reflects is simply the inevitable consequences of four decades of the steady erosion of
absolute values. As a result, we live with a massive case of schizophrenia. Outwardly, we are a
religious people, but inwardly our religious beliefs make no difference how we live. We are
obsessed with self; we live, raise families, govern & die as though God does not exist, just as
Nietzshe predicted a century ago.
Pg 218... This elimination of the transcendent from serious public discussion is merely a
reflection of the underlying cultural revolution that has eliminated absolute values from public
consciousness, thus ushering in an age of relativism..... “In an attempt to be neutral, we ignore all
values.”
Pg 239... Moral values do affect character, and the influence of individual character has an
impact on society....
.... What it does mean, as Plato & Cicero recognized, is that there are moral absolutes that govern
human behaviour; there is a law rooted in truth upon which the laws of human society are based.
Pg 241...But as history demonstrates, an as we have already discussed, the result of government
attempted to impose its own moral vision upon society or acting without the restraint of an
independent conscience is tyranny.
Pg 244... “Christianity rests on the belief that God is the source of truth & that He does not alter
it according to the spirit of the times.” When Christianity sever their ties o absolute truth,
relativism reigns, and the church becomes merely a religious adaptation of the culture.
Pg 245... The first responsibility for the citizen of the Kingdom, then, is to understand historic
Christian truth; to know Scripture & the classic fundamentals of the faith.......
When Christians either lack knowledge or are insecure about what they believe, as is the case
with many today, they forfeit their place in contending for theological truth, and secularism
advances.
Pg 246... Out of love & obedience Christians live in subjection to governing authorities, love
their neighbours, and promote justice. Since the state cannot legislate love, Christian citizens
bring a humanizing element to civic life, helping to produce the spirit by which people do good
out of compassion, not compulsion.
Pg 247... C. S. Lewis pointed out, however, “that in love of country, as in love of family, we
don’t love our spouses only when they are good. Similarly, a patriot sees the flaws of his country,
acknowledges them, weeps for them, but remains faithful in love.”
Pg 255... Culture is most profoundly changed not by the efforts of huge institutions but by
individual people being changed.
Pg 275... “Power involves the use of coercive force to make others yield to one’s wishes even
against their own will. Authority is achieved - or is conferred upon one - by virtue of character
that others are motivated to follow willingly.”
Pg 329... the churches primary function is evangelization & ministering to spiritual needs; as the
principal manifestation of the Kingdom of God, it must be the conscience of society, the
instrument of moral accountability.
Here's the book I mentioned. Finished it at the cottage.
KINGDOMS IN CONFLICT - Charles Colson
pg 47....Christianity provided a transcendent spiritual end which gave Western culture its
dynamic purpose. It furnished the soul for Western civilization & provided its moral
legitimization.... “The firm principles which could mediate between the individual & society to
provide both with a sense of proportion & responsibility in order to inform behaviour.”
John Adams wrote, “Our constitution was made only for a moral & religious (Christian) people.
It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other.
Today, increasing numbers of thinkers, even those who reject orthodox faith, agree that a religious-value consensus is essential for justice & concord. (Moral values)
“To disregard the historic Western consensus about the role of religion in culture is to ignore the foundation of our civilization.”
Men and women need more than a religious value system. They need civic structures to prevent chaos & provide order.
“Both the City of God & the city of man are vital to society - and the must remain in delicate balance........wherever they are out of balance, the public good suffers.”
Pg 90.... “crime is not the result of environment or poverty, but wrong moral choices.”
Pg 91....”The state is not a remedy for sin, but a means to restrain it.”
Pg 92....”In the Judeo-Christian view, law is rooted in moral absolutes that do not vacillate with
public taste or the whim of fashion.”
Pg 94...”This is why the Kingdom of God has had such an astonishing effect upon the most
powerful of human empires in every age. It is not a blueprint for some social order; nor does it
merely set the forces of radical cultural change in motion. Rather, God’s Kingdom promises radical changes in human personalities.
This is the crucial point. “While human politics is based on the premise that society must be
changed in order to change people, in politics of the Kingdom it is people who must be changed in order to change society.”
Pg 113....Can we conclude from this cursory overview that the church & the state must inevitably
be in conflict? To some extent the answer it yes. Dual allegiances always create tension. And in a
sinful world the struggle for power, which inevitably corrupts, is unavoidable. When the church
isn’t being persecuted, it is being corrupted. So as much as anything else, it is man’s own nature
that has created centuries of conflict.
But every generation has an obligation to seek a healthy relationship between church & state.
Both are reflections of man’s nature; both have roles to play. Christ’s teachings clearly delineates
these roles.
Pg 114....In God’s provision the state is not to seize authority over ecclesiastical or spiritual
matters, nor is the church to seek authority over political matters. Yet, the constant temptation of
each is to encroach upon the other.
*Oscar Cullman has written, “According to the Jewish, as to the early Christian, outlook - the
totalitarian state is precisely the classic form of the Devil’s manifestation on earth.” (“The State
of the New Testament”)
pg 118.... The crucial dynamic in the church-state tension is separation of institutional authority.
Pg 119.... “Nothing can be a true religion but a voluntary obedience unto His revealed will, of
which each rational soul has an equal right to act in all religious affairs according to the full
persuasion of his own mind.” (Comment by the Baptist minister Isaac Backus)
*One phrase in James Madison’s “Memorial & Remonstrate” presented to the Commonwealth of
Virginia in 1785, succinctly sums up the thinking of the Founding Fathers “......that Relgion or
the duty we owe our Creator and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason &
conviction, not by force or violence. The Religion of every man must be left to the conviction &
conscience of every man/woman; and it is the right of everyone to exercise it as these may
dictate.”
Pg 120.... It was this thinking that led to the First Amendment expressly to protect the individuals
right to freedom of conscience & expression, & to protect the establishment of a state church....
“A nation under God” was no idle phrase.
Pg 182.... in a spiritual vacuum, man can pursue only two options; first, to imagine that they are
gods themselves, or second, to seek satisfaction in their senses.”
Pg 197.... Collaboration with power, whether Communist or not, is always ruinous for the
church. If the church exists, it is to have legitimacy in the eyes of the people, it must always stand
erect as a counter-power to political power.”
Pg 202.... Today they (the churches in Nicaragua) resist the left’s demands to identify the gospel
with “equality, justice & peace.” They demonstrate the first law of survival for the church under
pressure from secular authorities: Do not legitimize tyranny. Remain aloof from the
enticements & threats of secular authority. Be faithful to God alone.
Pg 208... “When an institution that is voluntary in membership cannot define the conditions of
belonging, that institution in fact ceases to exist.”
Pg 211.... “......unilateral devotion to the concept of neutrality can lead to...not simply noninterference & nonviolence with the religious which the Constitution commands, but a brooding & pervasive devotion to the secular & a passive, or even active, hostility to the religious.” (especially Christianity) Confining it to a “neutral status” devoid of any inherent meaning.
Pg 212... The ideas of Nietzsche, Freud & Darwin finally set off an explosion of relativism. All
moral distinctions were equally valid & equally invalid since all were equally subjective.
(This is the new definition of what it means to be tolerant. ALL VALUES ARE EQUAL.)
Pg 213... There are no lasting values, no timeless truths, only artifacts of the moment.
(This is relativism’s principal tenant.)
Pg 214... Pascal’s second option has thus become the route of western experience: “Separated
from God, men must seek satisfaction in their senses.” This is more than mindless hedonism; it is
a world-view in which, according to professor Allen Bloom, “the self has become the modern
substitute for the soul.”
A 1985 study titled, “Habits of the Heart” calls this attitude “utililtarian individualism”.... What
this study reflects is simply the inevitable consequences of four decades of the steady erosion of
absolute values. As a result, we live with a massive case of schizophrenia. Outwardly, we are a
religious people, but inwardly our religious beliefs make no difference how we live. We are
obsessed with self; we live, raise families, govern & die as though God does not exist, just as
Nietzshe predicted a century ago.
Pg 218... This elimination of the transcendent from serious public discussion is merely a
reflection of the underlying cultural revolution that has eliminated absolute values from public
consciousness, thus ushering in an age of relativism..... “In an attempt to be neutral, we ignore all
values.”
Pg 239... Moral values do affect character, and the influence of individual character has an
impact on society....
.... What it does mean, as Plato & Cicero recognized, is that there are moral absolutes that govern
human behaviour; there is a law rooted in truth upon which the laws of human society are based.
Pg 241...But as history demonstrates, an as we have already discussed, the result of government
attempted to impose its own moral vision upon society or acting without the restraint of an
independent conscience is tyranny.
Pg 244... “Christianity rests on the belief that God is the source of truth & that He does not alter
it according to the spirit of the times.” When Christianity sever their ties o absolute truth,
relativism reigns, and the church becomes merely a religious adaptation of the culture.
Pg 245... The first responsibility for the citizen of the Kingdom, then, is to understand historic
Christian truth; to know Scripture & the classic fundamentals of the faith.......
When Christians either lack knowledge or are insecure about what they believe, as is the case
with many today, they forfeit their place in contending for theological truth, and secularism
advances.
Pg 246... Out of love & obedience Christians live in subjection to governing authorities, love
their neighbours, and promote justice. Since the state cannot legislate love, Christian citizens
bring a humanizing element to civic life, helping to produce the spirit by which people do good
out of compassion, not compulsion.
Pg 247... C. S. Lewis pointed out, however, “that in love of country, as in love of family, we
don’t love our spouses only when they are good. Similarly, a patriot sees the flaws of his country,
acknowledges them, weeps for them, but remains faithful in love.”
Pg 255... Culture is most profoundly changed not by the efforts of huge institutions but by
individual people being changed.
Pg 275... “Power involves the use of coercive force to make others yield to one’s wishes even
against their own will. Authority is achieved - or is conferred upon one - by virtue of character
that others are motivated to follow willingly.”
Pg 329... the churches primary function is evangelization & ministering to spiritual needs; as the
principal manifestation of the Kingdom of God, it must be the conscience of society, the
instrument of moral accountability.