Questions of balance

[Hope 98]

I finally got my financial record-keeping system pack in near working order after about six months of issues. I've been using financial software for over 15 years, and recent bank & credit card changes made all the automatic tracking and reminders useless.

Now, I have a clear picture of our debt and it hurts. While I can't claim that we have spent NOTHING on ourselves, I know that the bigger portion of our debt has resulted from trying to help people who took advantage of us, when we didn't have that much to offer in the first place. We have some responsibility in this, I know that.

I now feel like I have been dishonest with some people - not wanting to admit how far off track we were in our budgeting. I didn't want to whine or burden others - at least I think that had a lot to do with it. I also know that there was some pride involved. I didn't want to appear as foolish as I felt.

In general terms I remember being advised on one hand to make our needs known and seek help when we need it, and on the other hand to keep our problems to ourselves and trust God.

I've been trusting God for years now. I don't expect or want to be rewarded with grand prosperity. I believed He would not let us "crash & burn" in terms of our human and material needs.

I fear that turning to some in the church will only expose us to accusations of rebellion and sinfulness; that we "should have known" not to trust, we should have "given the whole tithe" and addressed the "sin in our household". Obviously - it would seem - God is leaving us to the consequences of our bad choices. All the while, though, I felt and believed that God had given us people to help and that our generosity outweighed the tithe, and we have been following God's heart in response to the situations we've been handed.

I'm not sure now what God wants from us. Are we being disciplined? Am I whining? Or is this just another challenge for us to learn to deal with?

I don't know...

[beginagainrose]

Hope... Proverbs says, "He who refreshes others will, himself, be refreshed. I think "bring the whole tithe into the storehouse" makes room with other scripture to give credence to the view that all giving done "as unto the Lord" counts. If you ask me, it is pretty convenient theology for pastors to teach that it all has to come under "their control" to be deemed acceptable to God. I believe there are too many scriptures to indicate otherwise. I know it is easy to start shredding our own hearts looking for "the leaven"; but the rain falls on us all... and not always those longed for "showers of blessing". May the mercy drops of His sustaining grace bring you through until....wait for it...for it will surely come.:)

[simka2]

This is not the end...it's just a place during the journey. I know for me I tend to look at things pretty black and white...this plus this plus that...must be why were here. Sometimes it's not that simple...its good to gently acknowledge where one has made unhelpful decisions...to learn...and to move on in a more helpful direction. I'm sorry for your fear...people will always say things...that doesn't make them true!

You are incredible...God is not out to punish you...He loves you!

[Hope 98]

This is not the end...it's just a place during the journey. I know for me I tend to look at things pretty black and white...this plus this plus that...must be why were here. Sometimes it's not that simple...its good to gently acknowledge where one has made unhelpful decisions...to learn...and to move on in a more helpful direction. I'm sorry for your fear...people will always say things...that doesn't make them true!

You are incredible...God is not out to punish you...He loves you!

Thank you - it helps to look at it that way - a place during the journey.

I do believe that God loves me, and the fear of "some in the church" just means I avoid seeking their counsel or help, and it seems wrong to me that a church would be so much more inclined to condemn than assist.

[Gayle]

Thank you - it helps to look at it that way - a place during the journey.

I do believe that God loves me, and the fear of "some in the church" just means I avoid seeking their counsel or help, and it seems wrong to me that a church would be so much more inclined to condemn than assist.


This is something I also struggle with - how will others particularly who are straight laced and seem to always have their life in order (they don't really) -might react, judge etc. if they knew how messed up things can get in my life. Then a few non-judgmental words from genuine people help to thaw me from the spot I froze on and I'm able to move forward again. Hope you are able to relax a bit more now.

[Anna Marta]

Dearest Hope,

I know your heart and it is a HUGE and LOVING one!

Do I understand where you are? You know that I do because we lost it all - house, savings, jobs and nearly our lives as a consequence. There were times we could not understand why our "rich" friends did not rescue us even though they knew our precarious circumstances.

Like many others, it looks like you (we) were indoctrinated into the prosperity kind of thinking that what "we do" impacts on what "God does" in return out of His big grateful heart to reward us here and now.

These teachers never seem to follow up their teaching with the admonition that life on Earth works by a set of Earth-bound rules regarding Earthly things. They want us to believe that God's supernatural biblical promises "as they have chosen to intrepret them" change the "cause and effect" of worldly realities. Cause and effect is like the law of gravity, we can't escape it by faith and belief, even if someones teaches us that we can based on the principle that God would not let us crash and burn.

I can't find anwhere to substantiate the teaching in which we are promised financial or any other kind of reward by God's devine intervention on the consequences of our choices here and now in this world.

We can testify that God was with us and was faithful to hold us up as we went through our darkest hours. He was our provider- not our rewarder. He helped us from developing a bitter or resentful attitude toward Him or people. As much as we wanted to blame someone for our loss, He drove the fact home until we finally understood - we had trusted the "wrong kind of people" for the right reasons and paid the price to learn wisdom.

I remember Steinar telling you and Bart over lunch, "It is easy to say I trust God when you have money in the bank." There is a HUGE difference between false teachings on rewards and the truth that God is our provider. He provided us with food and housing and a way to get around... it was up to us to humbly accept and be thankful and content with what we got... old car, tiny cabin without heat for a bit more than a year, donations of food and other kinds of help. Never were we hungry or homeless or without a way to get around. By the time we lost the house, we were glad to be rid of the burden of it, even though losing it had been our greatest fear!

When we finally returned to Norway and thought we had reached safety - we discovered we had enemies IN THE new CHURCH who pretended to be friends. Their criticisms, judgements and abusive treatment were worse than the times without money!

We keep you in prayer as you work through this difficult time of sorting out your finances, thoughts, beliefs and circumstances. May you know that God is faithful and He loves you. Like any good parent, even though God has the resources to rescue, He knows when and how to do it so that good things result.

Remember dear friend, that some of the most beautiful music, poetry and precious memories have come because of going through pain and hardship. You are a most remarkable family with God's love as your center and compassion in your hearts; this is of more value than all the gold in the world. There are people who can only dream of what you have with each other.

Prayers and love
AM

[Reg]

Hope,

I feel your financial pain. I am also going through it. My investments are down approx 40% and now that I am retired, I am barely making ends meet.

I just read Psalm 91. I always have to remember how much God is for us.

These two verses I have to cling to and believe in to the depths of my being...

14 "Because he has set his love upon Me, therefore I will deliver him; I will set him on high, because he has known My name.
15 He shall call upon Me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him and honor him.

[Carmen]

I fear that turning to some in the church will only expose us to accusations of rebellion and sinfulness; that we "should have known" not to trust, we should have "given the whole tithe" and addressed the "sin in our household". Obviously - it would seem - God is leaving us to the consequences of our bad choices. All the while, though, I felt and believed that God had given us people to help and that our generosity outweighed the tithe, and we have been following God's heart in response to the situations we've been handed.

I'm not sure now what God wants from us. Are we being disciplined? Am I whining? Or is this just another challenge for us to learn to deal with?

I wouldn't listen to accusations - that doesn't sound understanding, it only sounds condescending.

I hope you don't take this as harsh, I am trying to be honest with you. :):(

I'd take this as a learning experience. You can't help everyone or do everything right to please everyone.

As far as debt goes, sure, you can give your second coat to another, but if you didn't have a coat to begin with how could you give it? IMHO mismanaging a tithe by going into debt to give it is just that - mismanagement. I don't think that God wants us to mismanage what he has given us. Today's credit systems allow us to give what we do not have. I don't think that was that much of a problem in biblical times.

IMHO, I'd scrub the credit cards and go back to a cash basis of living. Then you know what you have, what you can give and what you can't. You wouldn't give someone your last bit of grocery money - what would you have to eat then? You are not others' last option for help, there are many more people out there that are better able to help and God can use them as well to do it until you are back on your financial feet again.

I am speaking from experience too, I am in some debt myself and thinking about getting rid of the credit cards. We will just have to do without some things for a while. Right now we are on the receiving end, probably until I can finish my education and get a real job.

[Hope 98]

Thank you for all the comments. It helps a lot to be encouraged because the doubts find a way to creep in.


I needed the affirmation that I am not being punished. I think in the deepest part of my heart, I know that.

I do still need a lot of wisdom to know how best to handle this. And I always like to remember James 1:5: "If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him."

[simka2]

Great verse!!!!