People who left...

[simka2]

I was thinking about this as I posted on another thread.

Has anyone been in contact with people who left/forced to leave the same spiritually abusive situation you found yourself in?

What was it like sharing your stories?

Was it helpful?

For me it was bittersweet...It was bitter because these were people I believed evil about for some time. They would avoid me in public and that only seemed to reinforce that they were the problem and not me or our pastor. Then I found myself on the other side of the situation...suddenly I understood their avoidance. They had really firm boundaries up...probly because as a church we felt it was okay to violate boundaries.

It was sweet...because...for the most part...when they became aware that you were now aware of the issues...they opened up and supported me.

I remember one person saying..."I wanted to talk to you about these things, but at the time I felt you were unsafe." They were right...I would have felt the need to go tell pastor everything ths person said...otherwise I wouldn't have been respecting my spiritual authority.

Anyway, many relationships have been restored...and many have not. There are many I now realize are unsafe...who I would love to have relationship with but can't...but there are others I thought were unsafe who actually are safe.

Anyway...just wanted to see what others have experienced?

[beginagainrose]

:(We have been lepers even to them... so I have no experience with this.:(

[dougjb]

Hi simka2,

I have been in those type of situations and I am sure that most people who were in abuse situations can relate. I have always found it over abundantly sweet and refreshing to the soul when things come to light, the truth is made known and there is reconciliation. Unfortunately, many times it takes years before it happens.

dougjb
some food for thought

[luttrell03]

I was thinking about this as I posted on another thread.

Has anyone been in contact with people who left/forced to leave the same spiritually abusive situation you found yourself in?

What was it like sharing your stories?

Was it helpful?

For me it was bittersweet...It was bitter because these were people I believed evil about for some time. They would avoid me in public and that only seemed to reinforce that they were the problem and not me or our pastor. Then I found myself on the other side of the situation...suddenly I understood their avoidance. They had really firm boundaries up...probly because as a church we felt it was okay to violate boundaries.

It was sweet...because...for the most part...when they became aware that you were now aware of the issues...they opened up and supported me.

I remember one person saying..."I wanted to talk to you about these things, but at the time I felt you were unsafe." They were right...I would have felt the need to go tell pastor everything ths person said...otherwise I wouldn't have been respecting my spiritual authority.

Anyway, many relationships have been restored...and many have not. There are many I now realize are unsafe...who I would love to have relationship with but can't...but there are others I thought were unsafe who actually are safe.

Anyway...just wanted to see what others have experienced?

What a relational mess an unhealthy church environment can cause.

It was frustrating for me wanting soo bad to communicate the hurt to someone, 'in the body', that I experienced yet having no place initially safe to do that. In the initial stages my wife and I just stayed close to each other.

It's a weird feeling when you realize for the first time that inside the church is not really a safe place anymore.

I also found it very sad when I realized that after 16/17 yrs. of investing my time and in relationships there, that not 1 person came to me, out of curiousity as to why we weren't attending the church anymore. Not 1 elder called wondering why we were gone or why we had a conflict with the main pastor.
NOt one person out of 300-400 people; some whom I had known for all those years, gone to endless retreats with, travelled everywhere with, played sports, concerts, spent endless hours together. That was a real wake up call that something was strangely wrong with not only the leadership but the whole thinking there. It made me ask what friendship is really about and what have we been doing/playing for all these years.

Anyways, I can a bit understand because the outcast syndrome in a way had to hit home with me first before I really understood how the other victims had felt. In fact, though I was not been directly involved in the conflict, I had the priviledge to repent to a fellow elder who had been 'excommunicated'. I repented because I originally sided with the pastor although I knew nothing of his story,,i.e partiality. Usually you would always side with the pastor because, uuuuuh, he's the pastor. Very convincing hugh?
Anyways, we have both gone our separate ways but I think he was blessed that I could understand how it felt for him.

I have had some 'safe' conversations with people who have left where we were able to confirm that, YES, that really happened to us, we're really not crazy.
Some who are out though don't feel comfortable talking about it because they see it as negative. In general, finding that safe place with other former members has been a bumpy road.

[Anna Marta]

Thank you for posting this topic.

I think I may have posted at one time about how about 12 of us came together as a group to share our stories. I was surprised when I originally heard "who" they were and even more surprised when we sat together and shared our individual stories.

I think it may have been a little surreal for all of us after having been so isolated in our pain and grief believing there was no one else. We expressed the same tactics, down to exact nearly the exact words and statements, used on each of us as individuals. We found ourselves being angry on behalf of each other. In some ways it was a great relief and in others it fanned the flames of anger and resentment for some.

There were a few who I was shocked to see. Aloofness had been misinterpreted as rejection during the time we were each going through the same thing without knowing about the other.

We met together several times and evaluated whether to report the pastor to the denominational heads. After deciding not to do that we all seem to have gone our separate ways except for the 4 of us who continue to be close friends who worked on recovery and now study together.

I agree that it is healing to come together with others who have shared the same abuse, especially at the hands of the same group. My personal caution is to be very careful with guarding one's heart so that everyone is not painted with the same brush and I become the abusive one.

AM

[Gayle]

where to start....there was spiritual abuse, sexual abuse by an assist. pastor....it hit the papers, the coffee shops...... it was excruciatingly painful.

maybe I'll start just where I see people since the time I left. At first after leaving the church I continued to connect with people who were supportive while I was there. The people were and still are good people - they also loved the man who abused me. He was a very sensitive, caring gentle man - to most. He was perfectly on a pedestal. Especially to those that counted in his life and for his reputation. To his victims he was cold and calculated. There was much confusion and anger in the church about what had happend. In spite of this many were supportive. I moved to a community where it was still easy to return if I wished and far enough away to maintain a decent sense of privacy. Much more could be said but that is long story short.

I hadn't returned to this particular church until a few weeks ago as part of my job which the church gave their hall for the program I am with.
For the most part I had no reservations about entering the church. I wondered what it might be like - curious mostly. I had driven by often en route to other places. This part has been fairly easy - a total of 3 times so far and not many people are in the building except for the secretary, on occasion 2 or 3 members who seem to drop by the office on that particular morning.

The last time I went to the church a member happened to be in the lobby and we exchanged a few words. This seemed to be ok. I'm just feeling it out. She was supportive a long time ago but I don't get into a lot of discussion - its not the time or the place even though she is asking questions. Few days later I met her again, this time with another member and a person I used to work for who I think is now attending. I met them at a restaurant and one indicated she would be excited to reconnect....share stories. I wanted to run. I don't want to share stories. I don't want offers to pray for me. I don't want to talk about which church I attend or that I don't attend. I just want my privacy. Part of me says its time to start asking about others - its not all about me. But I associate these people with that part of my past.

Two days ago a former member who works at a store where I shop, informed me that the abusive pastor died a few months ago. I said - Oh, ok. and it really is ok.

Some people, when we talk, still have issues with this man and/or how the church dealt or didn't deal but more often than not I feel it is a closed chapter for myself. There are scars and wounds that may never heal thoroughly but honestly I hardly think about that time in my life.

I'm not sure if I want to reconnect with people that have been part of a very painful past. They are good people, kind and caring. But I don't feel I want to pursue this in any way shape or form. I want to leave that part of my life alone. I like my privacy. Lately I've been running into them more often so maybe God has other plans. Dunno. I'm not gonna push it. :)

[luttrell03]

I'm not sure if I want to reconnect with people that have been part of a very painful past. They are good people, kind and caring. But I don't feel I want to pursue this in any way shape or form. I want to leave that part of my life alone. I like my privacy. Lately I've been running into them more often so maybe God has other plans. Dunno. I'm not gonna push it.

Hi Gayle. Though my experience can not compare to what you've been through I kind of feel the same way you do. I care for a lot of people that we left from the church but somehow I don't have any desire to pursue any of those old relationships for the most part.

I'm not sure if its my own selfishness or if there's really something legitimate there. Simka brought up earlier that in some cases there might be some, 'guilt by association' that I feel. In other words I might have the desire to stay away from some folks because they do partake in the deceptive teachings and behaviour of the leaders therefore I see it as toxic. For example, though many in the church eventually found out that we left, hardly none called to asked us what happend or why we left. There was such a spirit of unconcern and lack of care from this church. I realized that its not just the leaders who are wrong but there's something wrong permeating the whole church as a result of the influence of the leaders.

Anyways, I somehow associate it all with a past, which I'd rather put behind me. I need to feel that I'm moving ahead into a new chapter and somehow when I meet people from my former church I'm bombarded with memories that I'd been working on forgetting. The hard part is that it hasn't been easy building a new chapter since my whole life was wrapped into the church.

[simka2]

where to start....there was spiritual abuse, sexual abuse by an assist. pastor....it hit the papers, the coffee shops...... it was excruciatingly painful.

(((((((((Gayle)))))))) I'm very sorry for what you went thru :( I have only recently been able to accept that sexual assault was a part of my own story. The pain is excruciating!!!! Period!!!!
... I moved to a community where it was still easy to return if I wished and far enough away to maintain a decent sense of privacy.

I did the same thing :) It was helpful...mine happened to have a lake and trails where i found a lot of healing walking out of doors :)

I met them at a restaurant and one indicated she would be excited to reconnect....share stories. I wanted to run. I don't want to share stories. I don't want offers to pray for me. I don't want to talk about which church I attend or that I don't attend. I just want my privacy. Part of me says its time to start asking about others - its not all about me. But I associate these people with that part of my past.

I definately don't like it when people offer to pray for me...not totally feel sure why...something got twisted and I almost feel like it's some sort of punishment.

I have some other former staff members who attend my church...and I am thankful to be around them on one hand...and sometimes the reminders are very difficult.


I want to leave that part of my life alone. I like my privacy. Lately I've been running into them more often so maybe God has other plans. Dunno. I'm not gonna push it. :)

I like my privacy too! Sometimes I feel guilty that I like it so much...again, not sure where the guilt comes from.

Gayle, thanks for posting and sharing I really appreciated what you had to say!

[ex-shep]

Such abuses when exposed can be devastating to all involved. A celebrated UMC had their senior pastor beat up his wife to the point of death. Somehow he was able to beat the rap and move out of state. The amazing about the church is they openly dealt with it. Prayer groups and support groups were immediately set up and met for several months. Outside counseling was brought for anyone staff person or member who wanted it. I found out about this in the history of the church. It was quite literally an open book.

****

As far as leaving my group, I had to move out of state for two reasons. The group even in a big city was not going to leave me alone. The bible school was in a major expansion. It was getting to close for comfort. My significant other, at the time, and I knew we would not grow up and become independent if we did not get away from the homefront. It was the only way that I could find the freedom I needed. Also it got me in the rooms of 12 step recovery. I do not regret the move.

[luttrell03]

I also found it very sad when I realized that after 16/17 yrs. of investing my time and in relationships there, that not 1 person came to me, out of curiousity as to why we weren't attending the church anymore.

Hi everyone. I know this seems maybe totally irrevenlant/unimportant to most here but it was brought to my attention that the above statement I made was not totally correct, and they were right.
I would like to apologize for the mis-statement. There has been at least 1 person (l'll leave it open in case I've forgotten another) who, once they found out we had left the church, called me to make contact and eventually meet. Since then I have met regularly with this person and really been encouraged, validated in my experience and just been plain supported.
I guess I just got carried away in my frustration as I wrote, which is no excuse for exagerating.

I know I might seem waaay over sensitive bringing this up, but I just wanted to catch myself in that exaggeration because I care about the people on this forum and want to be as accurate and straight forward within my brain's ability. I want to be trusted and want to trust.
I also thought it was only right to correct it also because of that person who took the time and effort to make contact with me and 'hear me out'. That's what we desire most, is that someone would give us the time and patience to hear what happened, how we experience it through our eyes. So, I'm thankful for that person. God has sent us support from different corners.
So, thanks for bearing with my over sensitivity in this:o.

[JaniceB]

I connected with some of the people who had also left the SA church. Some were encouraging although as angry and hurt as I was.

Most didn't want to talk about it. I sensed that they didn't want to feel or express the anger and/or they didn't want to hear my anger. SA environments do not lend themselves to the healthy expression of anger, as we all know too well. So I guess they were--as I still am to some extent--under the influence of that environment.

I met a lady in the store. She and her family had come to the church after a big SA type crisis had driven a bunch of people off. She wanted to call me and talk to me about it and I found it difficult because the whole problem is so vague--at least to those closest to it.

She wanted to know what happened, who did it, why it wasn't dealt with. I had some answers but it was so hard to explain. So maybe that's why people don't always want to talk about it. Maybe it's all hard to put into words until you run into a forum on the internet where people are free to talk openly.

[analyzer]

Hi everyone. I know this seems maybe totally irrevenlant/unimportant to most here but it was brought to my attention that the above statement I made was not totally correct, and they were right. I would like to apologize for the mis-statement. There has been at least 1 person (l'll leave it open in case I've forgotten another) who, once they found out we had left the church, called me to make contact and eventually meet. Since then I have met regularly with this person and really been encouraged, validated in my experience and just been plain supported. I guess I just got carried away in my frustration as I wrote, which is no excuse for exagerating.

I am so blessed to see that there are brothers and sisters who care so much that they would spend sleepless nights at the slightest possibility of having wronged somebody.

On the other hand there are individuals who trample on people's hearts and souls with a Machiavellian Attitude (the end justifies the means) and they don't even notice.

luttrell: thanks for displaying such a beautiful heart of love and compassion!

[simka2]

Luttrell what I appreciated most about what you just wrote...was the story about the person who called and who has continued to encourage you!!!

I know there aren't many out there who I strong enough to do this!!! But I'm greatful for the few who are!

[luttrell03]

Luttrell what I appreciated most about what you just wrote...was the story about the person who called and who has continued to encourage you!!!

I know there aren't many out there who I strong enough to do this!!! But I'm greatful for the few who are!

So true. Actually Analyzer is the culprit. When he heard that we had left the church, he gave me a ring and we met at a Chinese buffet. I think we were both surprised and very encouraged somehow that we both were seeing what was going on in the church. We've been meeting along with another guy ever since once a week. We try to open up other topics but we seem to always revert back to the "church" SA theme and what we've experienced.
I think it just been necessary and important to be able to articulate what's been going on inside of us and to get confirmation otherwise it would sit like cancer in the soul and eventually kill us.
Anyways, I realized that God has sent me more comforters than I had realized, including the people on this forum.
I meet with some friends in the middle of the week, and we meet with a few friends on Sunday. Considering what's happened, we're blessed and thankful to have that kind of support. Analyzer was in the church longer than I and has seen tons. I'm sure you'll be blessed by his insights.

[simka2]

I kinda had some idea that it was the 2 of you :) I'm glad you have each other! We had a rough rode at first...but within about six months the pastor had fired 4 other staff pastors so we had a nice little support group as well! The freedom to speak and process in one's own time without the pressures to perform and be "okay", is priceless!

It seems to me that reconnecting can be both healing and painful depending on the circumstances involved in the reconnection...I've truly enjoyed hearing about others experiences.