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analyzer
05-20-2009, 04:52 AM
Hi to everybody. First of all I would like to thank you for all of your valuable contributions that were so edifying and that encouraged me to join this forum. Of course I would like to tell my story right away, but before I am going to do that I want to:

1. Introduce myself: my name is Gerald, I live in Austria Vienna and have experienced the ups and downs of free evangelical church life for the past 26 years. I am more the analytical kind of person and part of my free time I am doing math on a recreational level. The way I process things best is not to react or to retaliate but to analyze a situation. Thence my nickname: “analyzer”. If we can define things with the God-given gift of discernment, our perspective is getting so much brighter.

2. Share a few of my general observations about free evangelical church life:

a.) Many a local church can become the breeding ground for sociopaths because of people' s willingness to submit and to serve. If nobody takes advantage of the unsuspecting, potentially the local church could be a foretaste of heaven, but sad to say, more often than not the leaders become dicators in the sense of Matthew 20:25.

b.) The greatest tragedy I have observed in others and also in myself is this: as we turn away from spiritual abuse we succumb to the temptation to turn away from God too. We are faced with the challenge to separate the siamese twins of godly investment and spiritual abuse with a tiny scalpel and regrettably very often both of the twins don’t survive the operation. I, personally, went into a deep depression turning back to old, self destructive habits that I used to depend on before I entered into church life. The good news in this tragic story: The One Who is Faithful and True didn’t send a lightning bolt from heaven to strike me down but challenged me with this thought:

“How long will you refuse to put your hand into My hand and let Me lead you into a personal and lonely walk with Me, without a mediator in between, even if that means to walk contrary to the direction of your earthly leaders. Stop sucking your thumb, don’t hide behind the leaders, get up and walk with me”

By encouraging to take up personal responsibility I am not implying that abusive leaders will get away unpunished (James 3:1). By the grace of God I was able to define the first two steps that I have taken contrary to my (ex-)leaders direction. I will refer to them in my next point:

c.) Selfish and ambitious people are swinging fom one extreme to the other and thereby blatantly contradicting themselves. By the way, to make contradicting statements is one of the distinguishing marks of a sociopath. Because of the selfish pride of abusive leaders we went through a church split in 2005. The most startling thing that I had to witness was that leaders, who once adulated and flattered each other, changed their minds to such an extreme that they don’t even expect to see each other in heaven.

And here are my first two concrete steps how I will not follow my (ex-)leaders:

1. I will admit that I once aggrandized and adulated my (ex-)leaders.
2. And now I am fleeing from their sorcery to ascribe them to the devil.

Reality teaches us that we all contribute, heal, reconcile, do good, but at the same time hurt, disappoint, destroy and sometimes deceive. Abusive leaders will not admit the downside of their history and therefore they refuse any critique. It’s the all to familiar “no talk rule” and “there is the exit” practice. As I am teaching the book of Revelation at the moment I see the letters to the 7 churches in a brand new light: First the recommendations, and then (for 5 of the 7) the scary part: “But I have a few things against thee, …”. It is that “few things against” our (ex-)leaders, that has caused us to have an exchange on this forum, for which I am very grateful.

This is the way my (ex-)leader preaches to the congregation:

God gets things accomplished:

1. inspite of you and
2. because of me.

In reality, at the end the Lord will get all the glory for getting His will accomplished by stubborn and selfish people, comparable to the ravens feeding Elijah contrary to their nature.

d.) Some free evangelicals may mock the confession booth of the catholic church but overlook the unspoken mediatorial role of the Pastor in their own church.

Thanks for your patience to read my lengthy post.
A more detailed story will follow. I will try to relate it to (hopefully) your comments, advices and questions.

ex-shep
05-20-2009, 05:18 AM
I just skimmed your post. It still early in the states. I have not had morning cup of coffee. In any case, very accurate and perceptive. If the leadership is corrupt, the members suffer dearly. It does cause many to fall away from the faith. I left my groups in 1984. It was not until 2002 was able to return to church. At least you managed to keep your faith intact.

Welcome aboard. Feel free to make yourself at home. You will find some good supportive company. There is always somebody on line who understands and can relate. Virtual coffeepot is always brewing. Glad you are here.

simka2
05-20-2009, 08:06 AM
Love the nickname!!! And glad you've started to post!!! It's always nice to have another iron to sharpen us. I'm sorry that you have had to go thru this...but it also sounds like you've learned a bunch. Look forward to reading more of your story!

analyzer
05-20-2009, 08:17 AM
simca2 and ex-shep, thank you for your warm and encouraging welcome. I am appreciating it deeply.

@ex-shep: At least you managed to keep your faith intact
Actually I did loose my faith but God is in the process of reviving it in a similar way that He will be doing it for the Jews in the future. All of the covenants that he made with them are unconditional, the fact that they failed them is not nullifying but only postponing their fulfillment.

ex-shep
05-20-2009, 08:43 AM
simca2 and ex-shep, thank you for your warm and encouraging welcome. I am appreciating it deeply.

@ex-shep:
Actually I did loose my faith but God is in the process of reviving it in a similar way that He will be doing it for the Jews in the future. All of the covenants that he made with them are unconditional, the fact that they failed them is not nullifying but only postponing their fulfillment.

Sounds like my story too. I can easily relate.

JaniceB
05-20-2009, 08:51 AM
Welcome, analyzer. I like your handle since I am an actuary. Enough said?

My mother was a programmer back in the 1960s when programming was really hard and she was devoutly attached to her abusive pastors. Why would people so capable of rational thought do such irrational things? That's been my question for years.

I think it might be because we want an intellectual approach to show us we are right but we're talking spirituality and it doesn't work intellectually! As they say in 12-step programs no one is too stupid but some of us are way too smart to understand God and spirituality.

I definitely include myself in that category because I followed abusive leaders for years because they offered me a formula that should work if I worked it hard enough. Only it didn't and I nearly killed myself--literally--trying to make it work.

Hope 98
05-20-2009, 09:42 AM
My mother was a programmer back in the 1960s when programming was really hard and she was devoutly attached to her abusive pastors. Why would people so capable of rational thought do such irrational things? That's been my question for years.


What an interesting analogy! I got into programming in the early seventies and what I remember about it was that it was highly dependent on "if statements" to determine a logical course. The smallest error of semantics could through a whole routine miles off track.

The worst that could happen was for the "if statement" to refer to a condition that was not possible. This would lead to being "stuck in a do-loop" which meant that the computer would repeat a certain action endlessly unless it was turned off.

I see a relationship there - being spiritually abused is a sort of do-loop.

beginagainrose
05-20-2009, 12:21 PM
Welcome, welcome... glad to have you and look forward to your input. Great stuff here... loved the "inspite of you; because of me"... boy, did that hit home with me.:rolleyes:

analyzer
05-20-2009, 02:47 PM
I think it might be because we want an intellectual approach to show us we are right but we're talking spirituality and it doesn't work intellectually! As they say in 12-step programs no one is too stupid but some of us are way too smart to understand God and spirituality.

I definitely include myself in that category ........

Hi Janice, I know exactly what you mean by "to be too smart to understand God and spirituality." Especially because it is communicated on an equal level, and not preached from a podium.

You identify yourself with my problem instead of standing above it :)

Hope 98
05-20-2009, 06:01 PM
Hi Analyzer - I reread the whole thread and decided to offer a belated welcome to you!

I like the way you outlined your process for us. Thanks!

dougjb
05-20-2009, 07:32 PM
Hi analyzer,

First, I would also like to welcome you to the form. I did a quick read through on your thread and it was great and I am sure we are going to have some good conversation.

dougjb
some food for thought

Timid
05-20-2009, 09:56 PM
Hi analyzer,

First, I would also like to welcome you to the form. I did a quick read through on your thread and it was great and I am sure we are going to have some good conversation.

dougjb
some food for thought

Hi Analyzer! I like your post. It is amazing to me that this kind of stuff happens all over the world. I am glad you are here and look forward to more of your story.

Timid :p

Anna Marta
05-23-2009, 01:21 PM
I am more the analytical kind of person and part of my free time I am doing math on a recreational level. The way I process things best is not to react or to retaliate but to analyze a situation. Thence my nickname: “analyzer”. If we can define things with the God-given gift of discernment, our perspective is getting so much brighter.

Many a local church can become the breeding ground for sociopaths because of people' s willingness to submit and to serve.

“How long will you refuse to put your hand into My hand and let Me lead you into a personal and lonely walk with Me, without a mediator in between, even if that means to walk contrary to the direction of your earthly leaders. Stop sucking your thumb, don’t hide behind the leaders, get up and walk with me”

...By the way, to make contradicting statements is one of the distinguishing marks of a sociopath. ... The most startling thing that I had to witness was that leaders, who once adulated and flattered each other, changed their minds to such an extreme that they don’t even expect to see each other in heaven.

Reality teaches us that we all contribute, heal, reconcile, do good, but at the same time hurt, disappoint, destroy and sometimes deceive. Abusive leaders will not admit the downside of their history and therefore they refuse any critique.

Welcome to the tribe!

OMG - you do math as recreation?! :eek: I am one of those people who is allergic to math. However, I do like to analyze and try to understand situations, people and their actions.

The church IS a perfect breeding ground for socio/psycho paths. They feed on having authority and control . Interestingly most service professions also have large numbers of these personality disordered people as members of them - medicine, teaching and social work are others. As a nurse I was shocked to discover the number of docs and other in the medical profession who enjoyed power, control and abuse. :mad:

We received so many contradictory statements made by our ex-pastor that we began to think we were the crazy ones for awhile! :confused:

Yes, we do ALL have a the capacity for good and bad actions and reactions. Wonder if the truly disordered cannot tolerate the thought that they have any flaw.

Warmly,
Anna Marta