View Full Version : Traditional Christian Doubletalk
I got this from a mailing list I'm on. It sure is thought provoking. While I like this, I do not agree with a lot of what else is on Mike Miller's site re Universalism.
Traditional Christian Doubletalk
What Traditional Christians Say… What They Really Mean…
“There’s nothing you must do to be saved……” “Here’s what you must do to be saved:”
“You are absolutely, totally helpless to save yourself.” “You must make a wise decision in order to be saved.”
“God controls all things.” “God doesn’t control man’s free will.”
“We can’t boast about going to heaven.” “If we go to hell, it’s our own fault.”
“Love never faileth!” “Love can’t overcome human stubbornness.”
“Men are in bondage to sin.” “Men are free to choose Christ.”
“Grace is unmerited favor…” “… given only to those who merit it with faith and obedience.”
“GOD IS THE SAVIOR OF ALL MANKIND (1 Tim. 4:10)…” “… except for about ninety percent of them.”
“GOD’S LOVE IS UNCONDITIONAL…” “… as long as you meet certain conditions.”
“GOD’S WILL IS UNOPPOSABLE…” “… except by the sinner.”
“Salvation is not a thing of chance.” “There is no second chance to be saved.”
“WE HAVE GOOD NEWS FOR YOU!” “Most of mankind will perish forever.”
“GOD LOVES YOU!” “… as long as you love Him.”
“Christ died for all sin…” “… except the sin of not believing that He died for all sin.”
“The Good Shepherd seeks the lost sheep until he finds it!” “The Good Shepherd seeks until it’s too late.”
“God’s justice was satisfied in the cross of Christ.” “God’s justice demands eternal torment or annihilation.
Mike Miller, truth-over-tradition.com
JaniceB
05-14-2009, 09:50 AM
This is so true and so well put. I especially liked the part about the Good Shepherd seeking the sheep. So often I've heard in church that people can only come to God if the Spirit calls them and then the sermon takes a turn and suddenly it's my responsibility to make sure every damn one of them hears the gospel. Way too much for me to accomplish!
beginagainrose
05-14-2009, 10:57 AM
Reg... for those like me that are not the sharpest pencil in the box, could you give a simple definition of "universalism"?:confused:
Janice... I like to think the simplicity of the Gospel is just being a Light where you are; to who you meet; where you go... kinda the "Jesus with skin on" concept. How else could His "yoke be easy and burden be light"... not responsible for every damn one of them; boy, what nutjob put that load on you?!...grrrrrrrrr!
simka2
05-14-2009, 02:43 PM
That was fun to read!!!! It goes along with the whole concept of not speaking straight.
Reg... for those like me that are not the sharpest pencil in the box, could you give a simple definition of "universalism"?:confused:
Janice... I like to think the simplicity of the Gospel is just being a Light where you are; to who you meet; where you go... kinda the "Jesus with skin on" concept. How else could His "yoke be easy and burden be light"... not responsible for every damn one of them; boy, what nutjob put that load on you?!...grrrrrrrrr!
OK beginagainrose,
The term universal salvation or (reconciliation) refers to doctrine which asserts that all can be saved, regardless of religion or belief (but not regardless of sin).
The term "universalism" is also applied as a monicker to denominations and sects which hold doctrines which conform to the above definition, that "universalism" represents a divine concept.
Christianity
Main article: Christian Universalism
In Christianity, Universalism refers to the belief that all humans can be saved through Jesus Christ and eventually come to harmony in God's kingdom. A related doctrine, apokatastasis, is the belief that all mortal beings will be reconciled to God, including Satan and his fallen angels. Universalism was a fairly commonly held view among theologians in early Christianity: In the first five or six centuries of Christianity, there were six known theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Cesarea, and Edessa or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality, and one (Carthage or Rome) taught the endless punishment of the lost.[3] The two major theologians opposing it were Tertullian and Augustine.[citation needed]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universalism
beginagainrose
05-15-2009, 07:41 AM
ok... but the "not regardless of sin" part... is that meaning that people can be saved other that through the Blood of Christ and/or but not all sin? Forgive me, I am still confused. Told ya I am not the sharpest pencil in the box!:D I thought universalism meant that because God is a God of love, all people go to heaven or go if they are "good people"....that it is not a personal acceptance of Christ's Blood as payment for sin. :o Thank you for helping me understand some of this. This is why I tend to stay in the shallow end of the pool on doctrines and theology, otherwise, I am soon in over my head.:eek:
ok... but the "not regardless of sin" part... is that meaning that people can be saved other that through the Blood of Christ and/or but not all sin? Forgive me, I am still confused. Told ya I am not the sharpest pencil in the box!:D I thought universalism meant that because God is a God of love, all people go to heaven or go if they are "good people"....that it is not a personal acceptance of Christ's Blood as payment for sin. :o Thank you for helping me understand some of this. This is why I tend to stay in the shallow end of the pool on doctrines and theology, otherwise, I am soon in over my head.:eek:
That's OK beginagainrose, there are some variants in the definition. In the strictest sense of Universalism ALL will be saved.
It revolves around the word "aionion".
http://www.carm.org/religious-movements/universalism/look-word-aionion
If you want to go into it further, here's a good link that covers all bases.
Universalism
http://www.carm.org/religious-movements/universalism
beginagainrose
05-15-2009, 09:13 AM
Wow, Reg! Thanks for being my "pencil sharpener"! Guess I got the point a bit after all!:D
SueJean
05-15-2009, 11:44 AM
That's OK beginagainrose, there are some variants in the definition. In the strictest sense of Universalism ALL will be saved.
It revolves around the word "aionion".
http://www.carm.org/religious-movements/universalism/look-word-aionion
If you want to go into it further, here's a good link that covers all bases.
Universalism
http://www.carm.org/religious-movements/universalism
Thank you, Reg, for the explaination.
Just ran across another link about this.
Universalism, Christianity don't mix
Dr. Michael Youssef of Leading the Way warns that universalism is a dangerous concept for the biblical church because "they toss the Bible out, [and] once you toss that out...we have nothing in common with these folks." He points out that "most of the mainline denominational churches, and now some evangelical churches, have bought into this universalist lie that Jesus is not the only way to Heaven and that there are other [equally valid] ways
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Church/Default.aspx?id=1230796
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