the odd ball

[luttrell03]

Hi all. Just feeling a bit bugged about something so just thought it would help to write. Not really a big deal but I met an old friend from my former church at a bakery today. Actually when he was a teen he was in our youth group.
First thing he asked me of course when he saw me was, "still going to so and so church? (my former church). That question is expected but getting worn out. Answer, No.
Second question......what church do you go to then?
When I told him that we just get together at our house with a few friends (that's church for us for now) he gave me that look like, 'your kidding right', and then the subjec is quickly changed.

I know its not intentional and its kind of normal to see church as always some place where you go or a certian size,etc.., but somehow it makes me sad lately. This is the usual reaction we get when we say that we meet for now in our house. You feel like an odd ball. Am I missing something here? Are we really kuku or something?
Didn't most churches, even the mega ones originally start in a house with a few people? What's the big deal?
HOw many people does it take to make a church a church....5,10 20+?
Sorry, just venting:o

[sjorde]

It just two there brother! You know, "where two or more are gathered in my name.......". You're NOT an odd ball, in a matter of fact; home churches are going to be on the rise, you watch!!

[Willow]

I recently had a similar conversation with a former church friend. She was all excited that I visited a church and was saying.... WELCOME BACK TO THE FLOCK! I had to let her know I never left the flock and no longer have a church that has walls. I didn't get a reply back. I was hoping for some conversation about it. :p

[Timid]

HOw many people does it take to make a church a church....5,10 20+?Sorry, just venting:o

Hmmm .... let me see...... Hebrews 10:23-25 (New Living Translation)

23 Let us hold tightly without wavering to the hope we affirm, for God can be trusted to keep his promise. 24 Let us think of ways to motivate one another to acts of love and good works. 25 And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near.


No matter how many times I read this passage I don't see a number. So to me it seems that gathering in your home is just fine.

But for the ones that give you those looks, I would pose a few questions. What about the people in our lives that are shut ins? The ones who have no transportation to church or are just too ill to be able to go. Are they any less "christian" because they don't gather together?

And for those who do gather at a mega church and feel absolutely alone and invisible, are they truly gathering together?

And what about the people who do go to a church but their minds are anywhere but on the message and the fellowship. Are they considered more "christian" because they go to church?

I think that God has always looked at the heart and always will. I even feel that when we chat here, that is considered gathering together because we do what the rest of that passage says to do, 23 Let us hold tightly without wavering to the hope we affirm, for God can be trusted to keep his promise. 24 Let us think of ways to motivate one another to acts of love and good works...but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near

So next time someone does that high and mighty I am better than you look, look them straight in the eyes and ask them those questions. It may give them something to think about.

Your sis in Christ

Timid

[dougjb]

Hi Luttrell03,
Based on what you said, it sounds like you caught this old friend completely flat footed. In other words, he had no idea how to respond to your comment. All I have to say, the next time to make contact, proffer an invitation for further conversation [non-adversarial of course] on your thoughts on the present state of the church and future expectations. We are all changing the world one person at a time - you know.

[luttrell03]

Hmmm .... let me see...... Hebrews 10:23-25 (New Living Translation)

23 Let us hold tightly without wavering to the hope we affirm, for God can be trusted to keep his promise. 24 Let us think of ways to motivate one another to acts of love and good works. 25 And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near.


No matter how many times I read this passage I don't see a number. So to me it seems that gathering in your home is just fine.

But for the ones that give you those looks, I would pose a few questions. What about the people in our lives that are shut ins? The ones who have no transportation to church or are just too ill to be able to go. Are they any less "christian" because they don't gather together?

And for those who do gather at a mega church and feel absolutely alone and invisible, are they truly gathering together?

And what about the people who do go to a church but their minds are anywhere but on the message and the fellowship. Are they considered more "christian" because they go to church?

I think that God has always looked at the heart and always will. I even feel that when we chat here, that is considered gathering together because we do what the rest of that passage says to do, 23 Let us hold tightly without wavering to the hope we affirm, for God can be trusted to keep his promise. 24 Let us think of ways to motivate one another to acts of love and good works...but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near

So next time someone does that high and mighty I am better than you look, look them straight in the eyes and ask them those questions. It may give them something to think about.

Your sis in Christ

Timid

Thanks Timid and everyone else. This is really more to me what church is all about. Not fulfilling a duty or putting on a religious contenance but being able to be transparent and share struggles, regardless how trivial they might seem sometimes. I do get encouraged and motivated to learn more about God here.

[Jerry]

Dear Luttrell,,,,
I wouldn't give it a second thought,,,,,he was just stikin his nose in your business anyway,,,,the condescending bastard :(

Love Jerry

[Anna Marta]

You feel like an odd ball. Am I missing something here? Are we really kuku or something?

Well now, feeling like an odd ball is nothing new to most of us is it? I think I felt a little like odd man out most of life, depending on what clique I did not belong to...

As for being kuku - :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Whenever people have set out on something God was leading - very few people have understood.

If we look for people to approve or lend support, we would have to go about things in a far different way. This is about us and God - not about us needing to please people.

There is much to share that is good about meeting in a home which people haven't thought about or experienced, except in a small group.

By being positive and warm we fulfill the biblical idea of lovingly sharing faith. Remember Luttrell you are sharing your love of God not recruiting members. It is our spirit of love (nonverbal communication) that will say the most. We influence others by who we are.


If we are grateful for our group and those who come together that is what will be communicated.
If we are uncomfortable with what we are doing that is exactly what is communicated.

It is hard to break out from old ways and here in Europe doing that has special undertones (for good reasons in many cases) important to remember that.

AM

[luttrell03]

Well now, feeling like an odd ball is nothing new to most of us is it? I think I felt a little like odd man out most of life, depending on what clique I did not belong to...

As for being kuku - :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Whenever people have set out on something God was leading - very few people have understood.

If we look for people to approve or lend support, we would have to go about things in a far different way. This is about us and God - not about us needing to please people.

There is much to share that is good about meeting in a home which people haven't thought about or experienced, except in a small group.

By being positive and warm we fulfill the biblical idea of lovingly sharing faith. Remember Luttrell you are sharing your love of God not recruiting members. It is our spirit of love (nonverbal communication) that will say the most. We influence others by who we are.


If we are grateful for our group and those who come together that is what will be communicated.
If we are uncomfortable with what we are doing that is exactly what is communicated.

It is hard to break out from old ways and here in Europe doing that has special undertones (for good reasons in many cases) important to remember that.

AM

Great points. I always try for the most part to not react when people think it strange what we're doing. I can understand its not the norm when they think about church. I didn't myself know anything outside of my church when I was there. I didn't even know what the others churches were doing in our city.
It's just as we have discussed before, initially it's difficult at times to take a path that is not as commonly taken. There is a time of feeling a bit lonely.

Austria is a strong catholic country and most protestant churches are looked at suspiciouly. How much more if you meet in a home??
At the same time I'm a bit excited at what I apparently see God doing around the world. More and more are seeing that the system isn't meeting legitimate needs. Like you said AM, we can share with others this hope if they're open to it.

[simka2]

I know what you mean about it being sad though :( Sometimes I wish others realized they didn't have to carry the burden of religous performance!

[JaniceB]

I wish I had a small group I could trust enough to invite into my home or to go into one of theirs and talk about spiritual issues. I have to make do with this forum, a knitting group, and twelve-step meetings.

I'm glad you have this group and hope more people find them and we can begin to meet the needs of people who can't handle churches. People like me!

[Anna Marta]

((((Aw Janice))))

You can come to my house, but it would have to be one very long meeting to make the travel and costs worth it! Anyway, you can come for a visit with or without a meeting if you don't mind sleeping on a sofa bed in my sewing room. I'd even make you a quilt to sleep under. :)

[JaniceB]

((((Aw Janice))))

You can come to my house, but it would have to be one very long meeting to make the travel and costs worth it! Anyway, you can come for a visit with or without a meeting if you don't mind sleeping on a sofa bed in my sewing room. I'd even make you a quilt to sleep under. :)

Thank you Anna Marta. It does get a little lonely at times especially on Mother's Day. I hate Mother's Day but that's a whole nother thread.

I can see why Jesus and others recommended not to forsake getting together but what I see in churches doesn't seem like what they had in mind. The lack of honesty especially can get really depressing.

You know, I just might take you up on that offer someday. Wow, a trip to Norway would be fun.

[ex-shep]

And for those who do gather at a mega church and feel absolutely alone and invisible, are they truly gathering together?



The comment did raise an interesting point. The church I attend is a mega church. If one just sat in the services, it would be very easy to get lost. My wife and I made a commitment to get hooked into a small group for that very reason. We have a lot of relationships inside the church.

The same could be said when I was on an exchange programme at a large state university. I had friends at the radio station and the student union where I worked. If I did not have those connections, it would be very easy to get lost in the shuffle.

I was at a small college. So the variety and additional resources was actually quite refreshing. I felt closed in at small urban church.

It is a different take from one poster. As always take what you like and leave the rest.

[Carmen]

Well now, feeling like an odd ball is nothing new to most of us is it? I think I felt a little like odd man out most of life, depending on what clique I did not belong to... AM

Ha, ha! I can relate to that. Also, I chose to stay outside some groups because they were being cruel to others. Then they were cruel to me because I wasn't following along. My daughter is going through that one now at school because of a bully in the class that has almost all of the girls under her control.

Lutrell, I am sure that we are not "verrückt" (kuku), whatever else we may be. :D God's church is made of people, not walls. House churches do exist and may also have some of the same people problems that larger churches do. You still have to hone your interpersonal skills and make sure you stay safe. I just think that a small group is easier to keep track of as far as who has good character and who doesn't. I think you get to know people better and faster. JMHO.

[luttrell03]

Ha, ha! I can relate to that. Also, I chose to stay outside some groups because they were being cruel to others. Then they were cruel to me because I wasn't following along. My daughter is going through that one now at school because of a bully in the class that has almost all of the girls under her control.

Lutrell, I am sure that we are not "verrückt" (kuku), whatever else we may be. :D God's church is made of people, not walls. House churches do exist and may also have some of the same people problems that larger churches do. You still have to hone your interpersonal skills and make sure you stay safe. I just think that a small group is easier to keep track of as far as who has good character and who doesn't. I think you get to know people better and faster. JMHO.

Hi Carmen. I think you're right. I've been careful knowing that things can go wrong no matter what size the group. In fact there was another house group that came out of our former ministry and the leader or 'house father' (what he calls himself)of that group started to exercise patterns similar to the former pastor.
I think we're all going extra slow because we're scared somehow of reproducing what we've tried to get out of. The point is just getting together.

Aber, bin doch ein bißchen verrückt! (But I am a little crazy)

[Anna Marta]

In fact there was another house group that came out of our former ministry and the leader or 'house father' (what he calls himself)of that group started to exercise patterns similar to the former pastor.

Calling himself "House Father" shouts of his desire/need to be in a position of authority / loco parentis over a group of adults :(. There is a big difference between facilitating a group and being THE leader/father of it! :rolleyes: Scary stuff. :eek:

Unless we share DNA no one gets to use the title" father" except God the Father!

[luttrell03]

Calling himself "House Father" shouts of his desire/need to be in a position of authority / loco parentis over a group of adults :(. There is a big difference between facilitating a group and being THE leader/father of it! :rolleyes: Scary stuff. :eek:

Unless we share DNA no one gets to use the title" father" except God the Father!

Exactly! That's why I stayed away from that group from the beginning. He got the idea of 'house father' from a particular book he read that I also avoided after reading a few paragraphs from it. Obviously, he appointed himself.
What's happened is that many have since left this house group for reasons similar for leaving our previous abusive ministry.
So, I am very well aware that these power things can happen anywhere although, as we alread said, there is a particular system where they really seem to thrive.