hi im new :)

[chosen]

hi, im new to the group,

im not sure if i was in a cult. I have experienced a lot of things that were on the list for spiritual abuse..


It was at a pentecostal church where a revival was happening.
What i can figure out is God did so many thing in my life there.. healed me,
emationaly and physically..

there were many amazing things that happened there.


I became very co dependant on the pastor..
i always thought this was me, but after looking at the stmptoms of being in a cult i wonder if being thee had something to do with it.


Have you heard of the vineyard movment?? or the pensecola movment? well this church was experiencing a lot of what happened a t those places.

they even had guest speakers from those places at different times.

the last movment they were following was the G12 movment and then there was a church split... like what had actually happened to so many churches who did this program.


it all ended with me being pushed to my limit the pastor said he was going to let me closer to him, like a dad.. then he broke that promise.


i had a nervous breakdown.

well, that week i lost my job, my school and that happened..


im glad im not there anymore.. i look back and am so glad those people arent in my life anymore. so many horrible things happened

its so confusing because those people who are so looked up to by christians. well i know the truth about them and my friends wont beleive me..
i know their secrets. but im alone in it.

if they arent prophets, or whatever they are titles what are they.. who can i look up to. where can i go to church and start trusting again.


i feel a lot of shame that is hard to get rid of. i mean slowly it is going away but its so deep inside my subconscious.

ive really become isolated and that has actually helped me ..

they said horrible things to me like i have no call on my life, i should commit my self to an instituation, they pulled me out of bible college..

yelled at me..

once i started shaking andwhen i was in a prayer altercall, i dont remember anything that happened. they told me i punched the pastors wife and pastor in the face.. then they told me i only punched the pastors wife.. i dont know if this is true. they yelled at me right in front of the church. everyone saw. i ran out of the sanctuary crying . i couldnt even stand up once i got out here. i felt so sick.





another time after everything happened ,i did something to push the pastor away, i couldnt take it anymore when he lied to me and said hed let me closer, they told me not to come back.. nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnni was ok with that i n away. i didnt want to go back, but part of me was mourning.

but then he told me i could come to a hilsong united consert that was there.
when i got there they didnt let me in. i had a ticket a friend gave me .
they asked me to leave i told them to getthe pastor but he wouldnt even come out.

ni got angry . i left and then i came back. i think i snapped at that point. i went in and wouldnt leave the ahallway. one man the youth pastor came and grabbed me around my waist and threw me on the cememt outside.. and i think he told me to go tohell.
i emailed the pastor later and he lied and said he talked to him but i know him now i know his lies.

i feel like ive lost who iam.. im getting a bit better , butthere are some strange things about me that werent this way beofre i went to the church.

it wouldnt have been so bad if i had just gone there but i got so attatched to this pastor i trusted him and that ruined me .

later on, i was seeing a counselor ( the church had paid for me to see this guy) even after i left the church i was stillseeing him. i found out the pastor was seeing him too. i ran into him at an appointment. i felt so betrayed. because my counsellor was seeing the guy who hurt me so deeply..


i regret trusting that counselor too. he hurt me too.:confused::mad:

i dont think he was bad though.

anyways.. anyone have any suggestion on how to get better

[Anna Marta]

Dear Chosen,

First a warm welcome to our group of wounded and recovering people. Thank you for trusting us and sharing your story. I am so sorry to hear what you have been through. It's pretty clear that it is going to take time and work on your part with lots of help from others, both professional and personal, to recover. Will you ever be the same again? Hopefully you will be a new person who is compassionate, wiser, stronger and better able to handle abusers who come into your life later on.

I can identify with your experience in the Pentecostal/Vineyard/Pensacola /G 12 movement. As many people on this forum say - "Been there, done that and have the Tee shirt."

The "bait and switch" abusive interaction you had with the pastor et al. is also something I can strongly relate to. The feelings of betrayed trust and rejection are sometimes so strong that they are more than we can bear. No shame in breaking down... you are in very good company there.

You write you became co-dependent on the pastor, I wonder if you were actually, by the end, co-dependent on their entire system?

You wrote:
"well i know the truth about them and my friends wont beleive me..
i know their secrets. but im alone in it.

if they arent prophets, or whatever they are titles what are they.. who can i look up to ."

Knowing their secrets and not being believed by friends is "normal" for those of us leaving an abusive church. Anyone still in the church cannot see what you see because they are still deceived. Pray that their eyes will be open and then be there for them when they do eventually learn the truth... :(

As time goes on, I hope you will come to understand they people do not need to have titles or be designated as having some special ministry to deserve your respect. Respect is another way to say "looking up to."

These movements thrive on dividing believers into classes of people according to their own standards. Then they give them titles (which they think they have earned) and place them in positions of FALSE AUTHORITY over others. When we eventually come to understand this concept by which they function, it is so patently controlling, manipulative, self serving and down right rotten, that it makes one want to strike back and destroy them and their evil system. That is called anger and they even try to rob us being comfortable with having the feelings of a good oldfashioned "Piss-Off" because they call it sin! Remember anger is not sin, but what we do as a result can be sinful... Anger is a healthy sign when we learn we have been HAD! The thing to be controlled is seeking Revenge!

Healing and recovering is a long process and doesn't happen over night. Many of us need a season of Solitude - (isolating ourselves). It helps with sorting things out. Grieving what we thought we had is also a big part of healing and recovery, as are your present feelings of being lost... with nowhere and no one to turn to.

Please, if you don't remember or take in anything else have this, "You are not lost! You do have a place to turn to!"

Warm hugs from cold Norway
Anna Marta

[simka2]

((((((((((((WELCOME)))))))))))))

Yes I am very familiar with those movements!!! In fact for a long time I aspiried to alot of their philosphies. I remember watching all of the staff (my former church) and many friends go for little trips to Pensecola.

This is a very painful time for you right now, and my heart goes out to you :) You are not what they tried to label you!!!!! And as far as the counselor seeing your former pastor, I say run!!!]

My pastor tried something similar, He said that if we did not sign a release to our counselor allowing him to be privy to what we talked about the counselor would not see us. (this was a denominational affiliated counselor) We found out very quickly that was a bunch of bull!!!!! but it definately added to the betrayal. You probly feel that it would be hard to trust counselors and pastors right now :)

I hope that you are able to find a licensed psychologist who you feel safe with, (not that you have too! it just helped me very much.) But until such a time presents itself, feel free to vent and get all the icky stuff out. Grace, grace 2 U.

[Anna Marta]

My pastor tried something similar, He said that if we did not sign a release to our counselor allowing him to be privy to what we talked about the counselor would not see us.

OMG! I experienced nearly the same thing only in reverse. We were/are conselors and the pastor told us if we weren't to inform him of everything that went on in our sessions with the married couples (or singles) we would be dismissed. Of course, later on he told me that he had never released me to counsel :confused: when he wanted to force us to do what he wanted. How do you spell "spiritual rape" - right?

AM

[dougjb]

Hi chosen,
I would also like to welcome you to the forum. It is a pretty diverse group with a lot of different experiences. One common denominator is that all have been burn at the stake in one way or another. You are around people who understand the situation you were in. I spent 17 years in the Charismatic groups and know all about the crazy making they do. I picked a lot a parallels between your history and mine. God bless, and grace and mercy to you.

dougjb
some food for thought

[Jerry]

Hi Chosen,,,,
Yup that is quite a movement you talk of there....Now the only "Movement" I am involved in is the " Internal Cleansing " infomercial on Sunday morning..........Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm :confused: I guess that makes "Clee Irwin" my pastor :D

Welcome to the Forum,,,,,,,,Jerry ;)

[dougjb]

Hi Jerry,

Great humor - I love it.:D:D

dougjb
some food for thought

[chosen]

Hi Jerry,

Great humor - I love it.:D:D

dougjb
some food for thought


humor???
:eek:

[chosen]

Hi everyone , thanxz for all of your replies.

so anna marta, what type of church did you go to? everything seemed ok at tehillah.. then when i got deeper into it it got worse. i think i started questioning more. i also spoke my mind. which probably wasnt thebest.

can anyone tell me anything a bout the pentecostal church ..??

paoc....

[chosen]

ha ha are you refering to a bowell movment ??

[chosen]

Hi chosen,
I would also like to welcome you to the forum. It is a pretty diverse group with a lot of different experiences. One common denominator is that all have been burn at the stake in one way or another. You are around people who understand the situation you were in. I spent 17 years in the Charismatic groups and know all about the crazy making they do. I picked a lot a parallels between your history and mine. God bless, and grace and mercy to you.

dougjb
some food for thought


it nice to finally find some people who have gone through the same thing. when it all first happened i couldnt find anything on the internet. but Godshowed me some stuff. mabey he wanted to be there first .. well, im glad i found this page.

[chosen]

((((((((((((WELCOME)))))))))))))

Yes I am very familiar with those movements!!! In fact for a long time I aspiried to alot of their philosphies. I remember watching all of the staff (my former church) and many friends go for little trips to Pensecola.

This is a very painful time for you right now, and my heart goes out to you :) You are not what they tried to label you!!!!! And as far as the counselor seeing your former pastor, I say run!!!]

My pastor tried something similar, He said that if we did not sign a release to our counselor allowing him to be privy to what we talked about the counselor would not see us. (this was a denominational affiliated counselor) We found out very quickly that was a bunch of bull!!!!! but it definately added to the betrayal. You probly feel that it would be hard to trust counselors and pastors right now :)

I hope that you are able to find a licensed psychologist who you feel safe with, (not that you have too! it just helped me very much.) But until such a time presents itself, feel free to vent and get all the icky stuff out. Grace, grace 2 U.

hi, so you went to a similar church? can you tell me some of what happened to you?
the leader of tha church came to calgary and there was a big thingat the jubilee autitorium. i was in the front row, he came and put his hand on my head and i started screaming. i felt like my skin had been on fire, or burned.. it was weird but i felt so good the nexrt day..

i know that that is deliverance or something spiritual.. but what i dont under stand is how did so many things happen in my life changing , healing and these me n turned out to be so rotten?

sometimes what happened on a monday night only lasted until wednesday, sometiomes it was permanent.

alot of stuff happened to me similar to tat , shakinng, my head shaking, stuff like that..
its so confusing when you are seeking god... and stuff happens how do i know what was god and what wasnt.. i know god was there sometimes through that..


see the whole counselour thing, the pastor got me to find someone.. and i found paul and steve talked to him on the phone.. it was ok ,
i was so co dependant i wanted it that way too i guess..
then things changed and i wasnt in the church anymore . but he was seeing paul ..
i felt so violates and the counselor couldnt get it how it affected me badly coz he didnt see how the church had hurt me.

he was a pentecostal pastor too.. .so who knows.. i think he was a good guy but again who knows...
part of me wants to beleive the good , but there is bad too ..

im not seeing a therapist now, im tired of it. people just dont understand what happened.

[chosen]

here are some poems i wrote about it all to the pastor anyways...




sittin here with all these thoughts in my head

why do you just get to walk away again,....
you get to live your life
and leave me with all this strife
ya left me for dead
( mabey you meant it)
the fear in my heart never goes away
and i'll never forget what you said to me that day
you told me ya cared , you said so many things'
i guess i just beleived you
i didnt think someone could be so evil
you lied to me, you raped my soul
no longer am i whole
i was hurting before , but now i think im dead inside


this is another one



sitting in that church

a place of hope, i felt God so close,

how can demons be so near... aswell.



A place where God touched me

demons lurked in the back of the room waiting,

How is this possible?

For God to hold me and heal me

for the pastors to kill my heart.

to talk about me, to to hate me, to reject me

It felt so evil

and other times i felt God so close....

How can it be?

In the same room,

Where I came alive......

to die inside
Written over a year ago · Comment · LikeUnlike
You like this.
.
lied

poem 3

Way down here

in the depth of this fear is the

reflection of your face.

the expression of the beast

who tore me apart

Constantly changing

but always still the same.

A man of many names

I am tired of this wretched GAME.

Circling round and round.

tormented by false hopes.

the despiration within, Just wanting love.

I fall for the the TRAP.

that happens over and over again.

I try not to hate your face.

and poem 4
...
False Beauty

false beauty -

You are a weed festering in my soul,

up there on stage, the flower bloomed,

tricking the world, making them beleive you were pretty.

A safe soul, someone to comfide....

until the life and spirit were sucked right out.

this truth cannot be denied.

slowly dieing and not even knowing

this dreaded show just kept on going.

no rules, you answered to noone.

this false beauty that i dont know if existed

later i found out you were mean and infested.

spewing your evil and meaness at me

I fell for this trap.

Nolonger am i me

and poem 5

POEM MORE-

MORE
~

I'm sitting in a church, I feel God everywhere
A presence
A person
A Father
What is this strange energy I feel
This presence that overwhelms my entire being;

Captured
Enticed by this mystery that I long to be close to,
More than a practice
More than a momment,
A life long companionship between me and my creator,
MORE than an energy
MORE than a miracle
MORE than a life time
He knows me fully inside and out
He knows my faults
and the best parts of myself
He knit me together in my mothers womb

DESIRE
Waiting to meet this new found friend whom he created me just to meet,
His desire
With only whom I can meet
Unique as I am meeting that uniqueness of Himself
That is why I was created
to be a friend that no other is like
My creator
My God
My Jesus
My friend

[Reg]

Welcome fellow Canadian.

I live about 1 hour NW of Toronto. Where do you live?

I am a survivor after exiting my abusive church of 29 years.

[chosen]

Welcome fellow Canadian.

I live about 1 hour NW of Toronto. Where do you live?

I am a survivor after exiting my abusive church of 29 years.

i live in alberta close to calgary and red deer ..

[chosen]

Hi chosen,
I would also like to welcome you to the forum. It is a pretty diverse group with a lot of different experiences. One common denominator is that all have been burn at the stake in one way or another. You are around people who understand the situation you were in. I spent 17 years in the Charismatic groups and know all about the crazy making they do. I picked a lot a parallels between your history and mine. God bless, and grace and mercy to you.

dougjb
some food for thought

hi can you tell me more of your story ?

[chosen]

hi, yeah, it used to make me so mad when one of the pastors would say.. Dont hang around depressed people... and stuff about not feeling emotions.. like anger coz its of the devil... ( blah blah blah)
he once pointed me out in the crowd and said something a bout proper weight managment..


he was the one who said i was faking manifestations when i wasnt where i said i couldnt remember what happened and they said i punched someone.

he is in ontario now.. alot of them actually moved to ontario,,,

good for alberta i guess. i need to firgive them but im so angry at them.

[Reg]

i live in alberta close to calgary and red deer ..
My cousin & aunt live in Calgary.

[beginagainrose]

Welcome Chosen... and may I say I love your user name!... I am always reminding myself and my family... we are chosen, cherished and unconditionally loved by God. If you dont mind clarifying something for me... You said the pastor was going to allow you to be closer than others...like a father to you... did something physical happen or are you referring to something on an emotional level?

When my father, who was my mother's pastor, had an affair with her, he told her it that it was "God's will for her to meet his "needs" because his wife was dying of cancer". Preditors are very skilled at how to make their abuse of you feel like it's a privledge that you've been chosen!:mad:

I am grieved for your suffering and what happened to you; it is a stunning story and to hear how you were physically removed from the sanctuary?! Wow!... very similar to my own story...I realize now, that churches are where everyone is welcome; social clubs are where some people are welcome - usually based on their social and financial status:mad:... Well, again, welcome.:)

[thehow1963]

Hi Chosen,

How to get better? That can be such a tough question for anyone or yourself to answer. I was involved a ministry something like what you were in. In fact I was the pastor's right hand man. When my family came out of the situation and finally saw what we were in, a Christian cult, we were devastated. I have tried many things to recover. I did not go to church for awhile. I saw a Christian counselor, got involved in a mega church to kind of become a wall blender. I even moved out of the state I was in where the church was located. That is how bad it was. I finally started to see a regular counselor. Someone who did not have Christian in from of the word counselor. This gentlemen really helped me. Because he viewed everything I said from an objective point of view. A lot of times we need to vent or just talk to someone. Sometimes as we are talking with that person we answer alot of our own questions to the who, what , when, where, and whys of life.
My wife and I have both started seeing him. One thing that he shared with us is we have been traumatized. Kind of like the soldier who suffers from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Usually, the soldier has been emotionally traumatized. We who are Christians and have gone through spiritual abuse have been traumatized on the spiritual and emotional aspect. Some of us unfortunately have been physically traumatized by spiritual leader too. I am sorry that you have gone though this junk and believe me it is junk. Don't feel guilty for the anger that wells up inside of you about your situation, this is normal. God will work everything out in your life. Find a good counselor. Perhaps if you are not doing so right now, give church a rest. My family and I are going on our our third year after leaving that situation. We still have questions and are still dealing with situations pertaining to it. For others who are reading this it is great to be back! Take care Chosen, we are all here for you!!!

[jchpiper]

Hi Chosen,

I'm Carol. :)

Your story is moving and is a familiar one to folks who have been abused/taken in by various groups. My heart was moved; I felt your pain. At the same time I read hope. Your poems express the same....the hurt, the confusion, the desire to understand, the grief, the loss, and the hope of healing.

One of the biggest things I've had to deal with is an overwhelming sense of loss. I left my group, The Way International (which is pretty well known as a cult) after 28 years; the doctrines had been my foundation and the group had become my family. It has been devastating, to say the least.

I'm sure, as you continue to read and learn, you'll discover that your responses are 'normal' for a controlling and manipulative relationship/environment.

I've written elsewhere and struggled with reconciling my tender and deep and many "God" moments in the midst of ungodliness. I stated it this way: "I am confused at times in regard to my godly experiences in The Way compared with the abuses and abuse allegations. These present a dichotomy which, at times, is difficult for me to reconcile."

I think I think that I'm coming to see that one reason it is difficult for me to understand is due to black-white thinking on my part. How can something that was supposed to be all good, be so bad? Sometimes there was the sweet chewy caramel center (personally and with the group); other times there was the hollering and spewing and condemnation and emotional abuse tactics. I still don't know if I can explain part of that. It's like, I believed I was in the true household of God...how could anyone have a heart to abuse? Surely my leaders always had my best interest at heart? Surely God had designed this household and He had set up the leadership as He had?

The truth is, no group is all good or all bad. Even while involved I knew that in my head; but somewhere in my heart I think I believed otherwise.

(Just in me trying to clarify the above paragraphs I feel a mental fog and my eyes fill with tears. And that may always be the case, yet it (the fog and confusion) does have less power over me than it did even a few months ago.)

Another aspect, is that group dynamics come into play. In certain group settings (Christian or non-Christian), feelings of belonging, of a deeply shared spiritual oneness and experience, something supernatural, etc. can happen. That doesn't mean it isn't real or always bad; it does mean it is not uncommon in motivational/spiritual/greater-calling type group settings. It may explain part of the reasons why it can feel/seem/be so good and real....and (depending on techniques used) can be so bad and deceptive.

I'm not much of a Bible/scripture person these days, but one scripture I held onto after I left was "If I make my bed in sheol, God is there." So even in the midst of an ungodly organization, God can still be with the individual.

As far as helps, for me: reading was/is a huge help, connecting with others who have experienced the same and similar (others in my group but, for me, more so in other groups/churches), journaling, writing poetry, writing out my story and sharing it, learning to grieve and that it is necessary and vital and nothing to be ashamed of, professional counseling with someone who understands toxic groups and the effect(s) such a group can have on someone, various writing and cognitive exercises, and maybe some other stuff that I can't think of right now.

Are you a reader? I realize folks have different learning styles, thus my question. If you are, I'd suggest looking over various books and seeing what resonates with you.

Hold onto to whatever helps; you will make it through the storm.

hope and peace and warm hugs,
~carol

[jchpiper]

I got to thinking about my previous past and the reading suggestion and seeing what resonates with you.

Most often abusive churches/groups train us to not trust ourselves and it is difficult to know what "resonates." I was thankful that when I first exited that someone just handed me a book; it took some of the decision stress out of where to turn for more help. (Hope that makes sense.) The first book I read was The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, which may be the catalyst for this very website. (I don't know the history of the site.) I read the book 4 times and continued to refer to it for at least a year.

Another book I found of great help in regard to emotions and Christianity is The Cry of The Soul. I don't even know how many times I studied that book, but it was a lot. I spent over a year in it, that much I do know.

Below are some links, which you may have already viewed and may have find helpful.

cheers,
~carol

Books:
http://www.jeffvanvonderen.com/?page_id=87

The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse (some more info)
http://www.amazon.com/Subtle-Power-Spiritual-Abuse/dp/1556611609

The Cry of the Soul: How Our Emotions Reveal Our Deepest Questions About God
http://www.amazon.com/Cry-Soul-Emotions-Deepest-Questions/dp/1576831809/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238954532&sr=1-1


Breaking Free: What I've Learned About Spiritual Abuse by Barbara Milligan
http://www.spiritualabuse.com/?page_id=41

:)

[Jerry]

The first book I read was The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, which may be the catalyst for this very website.


Hehehehehehehe,,,,,The author of the book is the owner of this site :D We are considering including it in the "Cannon" of scripture :D ;)

[jchpiper]

Hehehehehehehe,,,,,The author of the book is the owner of this site :D We are considering including it in the "Cannon" of scripture :D ;)

I'll vote for that! ;)

Yah, I knew Jeff had founded the site (or at least parts of it?)...but this morning couldn't recall what else I had read about the site history, etc. I recall finding this site when googling around about the book. T'anks for the memory jogger! :)

[chosen]

thanxz everyone , that is good information, ill check it all out. sorry for the delay in response! i had some trouble with the internet but im back.

ive heard about black and white thinking, haha you sound like a counselour i once had.

and Dr henry cloud wrote some stuff about that too.
i hvnt been going to church for awhile, i keep thinking of going but cant bring myself to go.
i miss the wildness of worship at my old church and the time we spent in prayer,
i know my worship was real. thats what matters until i figure things out.

im glad God is outside of the church too..
god bless

chosen:)

[JaniceB]

i hvnt been going to church for awhile, i keep thinking of going but cant bring myself to go.
i miss the wildness of worship at my old church and the time we spent in prayer,
i know my worship was real. thats what matters until i figure things out.

im glad God is outside of the church too..
god bless

chosen:)

You're in the right place. Many of us don't go to church at this point in our lives and when we do we are very tentative about it. Don't trust too soon!

[Lvanett]

Chosen, welcome!

I know how you feel. Leaving a church and a pastor or staff or even congregation who lie and control is VERY difficult to be free from. And when you do leave, the scars left behind need to be healed and released.

I too want to go back to church....have thought of doing so many times....but then I have excuses :( like how they probably operate (ex. they either put on a show, or they play favorites and cater just to certain "pets", or they just stick to the old ways of doing things) or the reception I'll get.

For me I know I should be using my gifts (I'm in special music and worship ministry) and I want to, but I'm tired of the games. Like the waiting game, where they make you visit numerous times and (deliberately) wait so they can check you out and make sure you're safe even in spite of your giving a 'resume' (so to speak) with references and credentials to prove your "safety"...or the membership game where they make you either take classes or do certain things to become a member....or the "maybe game" (as in maybe we'll let you serve - then again maybe not) where they agree to let you serve and then sometimes let you and other times not let you, for whatever crazy reason they have (like the Pastor's wife saying she enjoys playing keyboards even tho she can't play very well, or hiding cables to the keyboard so you can't play) ...or any other mind games some churches like to play. I just want to serve and I'm tired of the nonsense.

I had a friend invite me to his church, and after thinking about it decided against it. Why? Because when the friend asked why I left my last church, I told him it was partly due to their wanting money (but forgot to tell them about their misuse of the tithe) and also because one of the leaders was very manipulative and nitpicky... and the friend defended that church's actions. Plus they do urban gospel and gospel choir music, which is different from the style I play and sing. So I knew it probably wouldn't work out and talked myself out of going. LOL