Guilt vs. Shame

[Willow]

I need to write a bit on this topic. I'm in AA and doing the 5th step. This step is driving me crazy because you're supposed to fess up to all the stuff that makes you feel guilty. The BAD stuff you did to others. Well... I don't have ANYTHING that I can think of to feel guilty about and confess. In spite of this... I still feel guilty like I murdered someone or robbed a bank. I even began wondering if I had done something harmful and repressed the memory. It was really driving me crazy yesterday morning. I had a real meltdown about it. Then I realized what I was feeling was FALSE GUILT or SHAME. I am not sure if this inner torment came from the cult or from the abuses I received as a child. Wherever it came from... I'd like to send it back PRONTO. I'm so sick of feeling like I'm less than a human. The wounded child in me still seems to rule my outlook on life. I'm so sick of it and ready to do whatever it takes to change. I want to feel confident and pain free. I need the liberty of living my life full of confidence and dignity.

Anyone relate to this inner feeling of "I've done something horribly wrong, but I can't put my finger on it"?

[Hope 98]

I am very familiar with the shame you're talking about.

I don't remember a time that I didn't have a clue what it was coming from though. I guess that could be an advantage that started me toward healing.

In my case it had to do with abortions that I had in high school. The truth of the matter was that I was in an abusive relationship, and most of the guilt and shame I felt was the result of the sins AGAINST me.

After carrying all of it around for over 20 years, I acknowledged the guilt and asked God intervened. I started to say that I asked His forgiveness, but it didn't really start out that way - I was trying to make up for the loss and FINALLY recognized that I couldn't.

That's where God worked on me and with me relentlessly to the point of actually convincing me of what I couldn't convince myself. I was forgiven of the choices that put me into that nightmare, but God didn't hold me responsible for the actions of my abusers.

It was entirely mystical, and supernatural. No earthly person could have ever taken that from me, and I could not have done it myself.

It changed my view of God entirely and I'll never be the same.

[Pangloss]

Willow, I can very much relate to what you say. I struggled with the concept of shame for a long time before I finally caught a glimpse of what it really meant. I found a lot of help from some of John Bradshaw's books, even though they are sometimes tedious reading for me.

Guilt is a feeling which results from a specific wrong we have done, and can motivate needed change in one's life. Toxic shame is the ongoing sense of something being wrong, of not being okay with yourself, which persists no matter what you do. We have been convinced that we are flawed, in a manner that becomes part of us. Healthy shame, on the other hand, is being able to accept the imperfections of who we are, of being okay with our human-ness, of giving ourselves permission to make mistakes without it changing our value as a person. Without becoming preachy, I think that the freedom I can experience in Christ is centered around letting go of bad shame.

Unhealthy religion taps into unhealthy shame. Sometimes the shame may have been bred by the religious environment itself, but sometimes it may have originated in other unhealthy interactions we have experienced in life. I also believe some personality types are simply more prone to suffering from shame-based stuff.

Anyway, maybe just a bunch of psychobabble, but that's the essence of what I've come to understand, for what it's worth.

[outcast]

I can identify with your post too Willow. I noticed after I left the cult I struggled with it a bit less, but it is still there to a degree. When I was drinking heavily, I could blame my sense of shame on the fact that I drank too much the night before.

But, one day I noticed that I still felt guilty on mornings when I had not drunk anything the night before or very little indeed. I started realizing that I had this sense of intense guilt no matter what I did. I do feel mine was strengthed by cult involvement, but it was likely put there by the abuse I experienced as a child.

I'm glad you posted this. It helps to know I am not the only one dealing with this issue. :)

[Reg]

I need to write a bit on this topic. I'm in AA and doing the 5th step. This step is driving me crazy because you're supposed to fess up to all the stuff that makes you feel guilty. The BAD stuff you did to others. Well... I don't have ANYTHING that I can think of to feel guilty about and confess. In spite of this... I still feel guilty like I murdered someone or robbed a bank. I even began wondering if I had done something harmful and repressed the memory. It was really driving me crazy yesterday morning. I had a real meltdown about it. Then I realized what I was feeling was FALSE GUILT or SHAME. I am not sure if this inner torment came from the cult or from the abuses I received as a child. Wherever it came from... I'd like to send it back PRONTO. I'm so sick of feeling like I'm less than a human. The wounded child in me still seems to rule my outlook on life. I'm so sick of it and ready to do whatever it takes to change. I want to feel confident and pain free. I need the liberty of living my life full of confidence and dignity.

Anyone relate to this inner feeling of "I've done something horribly wrong, but I can't put my finger on it"?
Amy,

Great topic to bring up. It lies at the root of much of what causes us problems. We have to have a clear understanding of why we feel this way to help us on our path of recovery.

I feel somewhat like you. I can't put my finger on anything I feel guilty about now. I may have in the past but was the guilt warranted? I have come to believe that when I contemplate the feeling of guilt, especially when someone is trying to place a guilt trip on me, I reject that feeling. I may be convinced & convicted I am in the wrong, but that's as far as it goes. I will not allow myself to feel guilty. That feeling does not come from God.

Romans 8:1
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,


This explains why some of us feel this way.

" This is another great article to help explain how guilt has been with us a long time and may be what we accepted as normal. When we were used and manipulated by others it sort of passed under our radar and went unnoticed because it felt normal. They used shame as one of their mind techniques to control us and we let them, feeling that we were really guilty. We then had to perform according to their dictates to get rid of the guilty feelings that we had carried with us from childhood. We were never good enough so we had to prove to others we were and hopefully the “Mind Parasite” of guilt would leave us. But, somehow, it never seemed to so we continued on the “Performance treadmill”.

Guilt - Still Another Facet in Neurosis by John A. Speyrer

http://www.christianrecovery.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6155&highlight=guilt+shame

And this is what we were exposed to that added to that....

Shame and Guilt In Religious Fundamentalism (Two parts)
http://www.christianrecovery.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1225&highlight=guilt+shame&page=2

[JaniceB]

Unhealthy religion taps into unhealthy shame. Sometimes the shame may have been bred by the religious environment itself, but sometimes it may have originated in other unhealthy interactions we have experienced in life. I also believe some personality types are simply more prone to suffering from shame-based stuff.

So true! Thanks everyone for posting on this thread. Shame is something I struggle with constantly.

[dougjb]

Hi willow,
I understand where you are at in dealing with false guilt and shame. I like to call it manufactured guilt because of the manipulators I had to deal with employed this pretend guilt in an attempt to get in my head for the purpose of control. I still get the flash-backs and the accompanying feeling. It does get tiresome. Grace and peace to you.

dougjb
some food for thought

[Willow]

Thank you all for your wonderful replies. I can't wait to get home and read more closely. It might take a few days to digest. I'm a little tipped over today.... not from the forum, but from other real-life incidents.