How do I stop the abuse cycle?

[New beginning]

Hey, I'm new here so this first post could be a long one!! I have been married to an addict for almost 14 years. He became a Christian 2 years ago but still struggled with addiction. He is now in rehab and with God's help I hope he can come through this.. My problem is that I have been and am still being abused by leadership in my church.. I was in leadership myself up until a few months ago when I was asked to step down because of my personal circumstances at home.. Now when I say step down I mean just out of the prayer time they still wanted me to continue to clean the church and set things up for the ministry I started and also do the admin, in a nutshell they wanted me to do the dirty work... I was prepared to do this but then it was pointed out to me that this was a form of abuse!! This all happened before my husband went into rehab... (I'm trying to make this as short as I can so I may be leaving a lot of important information out for you to get the full picture so bear with me)... I havent heard a thing from these people really until I got a txt message yesterday from my Pastor to see if I could do the church accounts... Not even how are you, please or thank you!! Now I don't expect people to grovel after me... I would have done anything for anyone but I feel that God is telling me to take time out for me.. To look after myself for a while and to get to know who I am in Him... ie: to stop being co dependant... I have been asked by another group to start a support group for co dependants and am a little wary that I may get hurt again.. I have always been a people person but have found I am shutting everyone out!! How can I strike a balance? I have not replied to my Pastors txt yet and I really don't want to.. What do you think I should do? I hope you can make sense of this.... Thank you:confused:

[JaniceB]

I havent heard a thing from these people really until I got a txt message yesterday from my Pastor to see if I could do the church accounts... Not even how are you, please or thank you!!

You've begun the process of stopping the abuse and it is a process.

I was in a similar situation only I was the addict. I was addicted to barbituates that I had been taking per doctor's orders--and he ordered a bunch of them--for many years for my epilepsy. The church wanted to save addicts not watch one of their own trembling and detoxing so they pretty much dumped me--encouraged me to "stay home when you aren't feeling well." And then I didn't hear from them for at least a year.

No one can tell you what you need to do. I can only tell you what worked for me. I had to go to another church and it wasn't one that I would have ever dreamed of attending. I was in a fundamentalist Baptist church and had been raised such but I made an abrupt switch and went to an ELCA Lutheran church--the most liberal kind of Lutheran, I believe. When I told the pastor my problem his response was, "I'm a recovering addict."

I even had to quit that for awhile although they were very accepting of me. I just couldn't trust anyone who talked about God for a period of maybe 3 or 4 years. I had to recover in solitude for awhile.

But when God brought me back it was to the Lutherans. I met a guy that I wanted to marry and despite his Italian surname he was Lutheran! That was odd enough to make me pay attention. We were married 5 years ago in an ELCA church and they're still very accepting and good to me.

I hope you find your way. I'm sure you will.

[Willow]

Hi New B.
The pattern you mentioned sounds familiar to me. I wasn't married... but I was perpetually single. To my church... the only thing single women were good for was doing the dirty work and letting someone else get the recognition (namely a male leader). When I hit a psychological burnout, I chose to back away from being in a pseudo leadership role. The pastor seemed disappointed in me, but offered no help financially or otherwise. So... I moved onto the next step and got a job in my career and began to take care of myself. Today, I'm probably viewed as quite worldly to those who still attend that church. But... I'm out of debt, healthy, and wiser for my experiences with that and other churches. I suggest you recommend a very expensive accountant to that pastor and see if he'll pay for his services instead of using and abusing you... or perhaps you can suggest your going rate at a professional's level. Only thing is... make sure you have support outside of the church. I made the mistake of destroying the bridge while I was still standing on it! :o

[New beginning]

Thank you for your replys and support... I have decided not to reply to the txt.. He knows my phone number and I have just started my own business in accounts so maybe I should charge him my going rate!! We have 2 pastors at our church and because I decided to step down altogether from minisry, (that his wife took over) the other pastor blanked me every time I went to church.. He treated me like a naughty little girl who was'nt doing what she was told.. He told me that I was the most spiritual person with real leadership potential in the church but because I wouldnt let them control me He rejected and blanked me.. I have gone to another church a few times but I don't plan on getting in too deep there.. I'm waiting for my husband to get out of rehab so we can decide and pray about where God wants us to be... I'm so afraid God will take us back there as they are praying for addicts to come to the church and I feel that because of the way we have been treated that they could cause vulnurable people a lot of harm...
It just seems that everyone I let into my life gets envious of what God is doing with me... It came to me the other day that these people want the excitement of what God is doing with me but they don't want the pain and struggle that goes with the territory... They don't want to sacrifice their cosy little lives!!

Now I'm not claiming to be an angel the Lord has shown me the error of my ways through looking at Joseph... When He shows me something I get over excited and share it with too many people!! So I am learning to button my lip which isnt easy.. but with God's help I will get there..

[Willow]

Hey... I just had a thought. I have found an alternative spiritual family in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous. I wonder if you might find the same kind of safe haven in Alanon? Is there a meeting like that near you New B? They don't much understand spiritual abuse... but they sure can relate to imperfection and god's grace!

[New beginning]

Thanks Willow
I did go to a few meetings but didnt feel it was for me... I'm spending time on a weekly basis with a friend who is a counsellor for addicts and has set up a charity to help people with addictions and co dependancy.. I feel this is enough for me at the minute..

[Jerry]

Do the things asked of you,,,,or don't do the things asked of you......but do them or don't do them because it is what YOU want to do ;)

[Reg]

Like Jerry said, It's that little voice in our heads that tells us what to do we ignored, often to our hurt.

A great read is the book "Boundaries" by Cloud/Townsend. It helps us to learn how to say the word, NO!

An expression I read and remember is........

"NEVER EXPLAIN! YOUR FRIENDS DON'T NEED IT AND YOUR ENEMIES WON'T BELIEVE YOU ANYHOW NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY"

[Janice]

If you feel God is telling you to take time out for you then do EXACTLY that!

Welcome to the forum.

[leelees]

hi new b!
welcome to our coven!

i was thrown out of church, not allowed to go to prayer meeting, ladies meeting, kids work..not sure about the main meeting but i didnt want to go anyway! it was extremely hard to adjust to having no one after 6 years of them being my closest friends and i suppose make shift family. 3 years last month i left and i still get all the emotions i felt back then...immense guilt, worry fear anger...you name it i get it! it has softened over the years and im bored and tired of feeling this way but no matter how i try i still find myself looking over my shoulder for them to strike!

i do go to church but found finally that i can be myself and do what ***IIII*** want and not how they expect me to act...i still worry about my salvation but i tend to just try and get the best i can! ive found that the way they treated me has creeped into everything...even coming on here triggers me a bit! sometimes i cant ever see how im going to feel better...maybe i never will?

im quite wary of anything churchy and i really cant stand people who "preach" to me or talk about how wonderful their relationship is..thats a load of b***sh**!

anyway, youve come to the right place, people here will actually talk to you unlike anyone from my church who cant even bring themselves to look at me! dont think i smell that bad??? :confused:
take care xxx

[Willow]

dont think i smell that bad??? :confused:
take care xxx

fee fei fo fum... I smell the blood of an engliswoman! :D

[leelees]

its my Cologne...hahahahahah...nah make that Brut (hehehe)

[Hope 98]

its my Cologne...hahahahahah...nah make that Brut (hehehe)

You reminded me of a time long ago when I worked in an office where a small number of people were inclined to be a little heavy handed with things to make them smell better. Being in the presence of any ONE of them could be overpowering. When they were all in the same room, I referred to it as "The Cologne Wars".

That's what some churches can be like :)

[Spiny Norman]

I was in leadership myself up until a few months ago when I was asked to step down because of my personal circumstances at home. Now when I say step down I mean just out of the prayer time they still wanted me to continue to clean the church and set things up for the ministry I started and also do the admin ...
<snip>
I havent heard a thing from these people really until I got a txt message yesterday from my Pastor to see if I could do the church accounts... Not even how are you, please or thank you!! Now I don't expect people to grovel after me... I would have done anything for anyone but I feel that God is telling me to take time out for me.
First of all, if you're sure that God is asking you to "take time out", then that's what you should do. The only question then becomes "How do I go about implementing that".

From an organisational perspective, it would be best if there were a constructive handover. So if you feel able, you could let your pastor know that by such-and-such a date you need to be released from your obligations. Pick a date you can live with. Ask the pastor to nominate a person that you can train, so they can learn how to do what you do.

Depending on how you feel (e.g. if you're feeling really hurt, etc) then you might want to set a date really close to today, or even make the move immediate. Its really up to you.

The alternative is just to say "no" and withdraw. That's certainly an option. But there will also be consequences for relationships from a precipitous withdrawal, so when I am personally in such a situation I keep that option as a last resort.

The things that you do within the church are a gift that you bring to God whenever you work on those things. I try to maintain an attitude of bringing my gift willingly. I don't always succeed of course. If I cannot bring it willingly, with a clean heart before God, then I'm probably better not to bring it at all. After all, its not as though God needs anything from me, its purely about my desire and willingness to bring whatever I choose to bring to Him.

Not sure if any of that helps. I do understand and sympathise with the situation. Its not easy to deal with.

[Hope 98]

yeah - my responsibility at church was a hurdle to getting out. This week is going to be one of organizing and passing on the work.

Wish it could have been less rushed.

[leelees]

this is going to sound really bad and i dont mean it in a horrible way whatso ever but i do find your replies quite hard to deal with spiny norman....i feel almost as if im being preached at...hmm...im really sorry x

[dougjb]

Hi new beginnings,
I have read your thread and the responses. I find the whole situation rather odd. Let me explain in a concise way. If the leadership of the church wants you to step down from your position based on personal issues at home, there is an assumption that they believe that [whatever the issue is] you need more time to bring about a resolution to the issue [whatever it may be]. If that is the case, they would also release you from all your other duties.

This is where the rub comes in, they still want you to do many other duties. This is the fundamental contradiction, if they truly thought that you needed more time concerning personal issues, they would not have expected you to perform many non-leadership work duties either, they would have given you a sabbatical from all work. The whole situation STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN.

I am sorry dear, but this reeks of a power play to remove you from whatever position or office and be replaced by another. Based on what you have said, it sound like you may be a victim of sort of political or power play in the church.

I would really like to know who replaced you - it could be very revealing.;)

I am sorry Leelees, I love you but spiny norman does have some good points.
New beginnings is not a commodity to be used then disposed of when not needed. We all deserve to be treat with human dignity. If I understand spiny norman correctly, he is attempting to bring a clear and concise resolution to this matter, so that 'new beginning' is not exploited. If I have errored, pleased respond. I think it is a serious matter.

dougjb
some food for thought

dougjb
Some food for thought

[hornblower]

Sounds like nothing but uncaring abusive human trash to me which is completely all my same experience with all of them from the best to the least. Trash.

Having said that all I can also say is that it is your choice to continue to play their games.........you are still there and you keep on with it and why is that?

Im not trying to be glib but really what are you and you husband gaining by being in this position?

People that are in 'ministry' in my book are 'labeling' themselves. I am a this I am a that? Why is that necessary?

Im probably sounding really sarcastic and forgive me but heres the thing....... we all go to church for different reasons but mostly we are wanting to be
loved.

Theres nothing whatsoever wrong with that but 'church' unfortunately is not where love is. Love comes from Gods heart does it not? Well take it further God doesnt reside in a building. God told us He didnt in the old testament and by gum Jesus didnt spend a whole lot of time in buildings either...big surprise there isnt it?
So where is God then? Well you and I both know that God is everywhere but Gods love mostly should be shown in His people, through His people and by His people for each other and for the world. But first and foremost for each other.

Now what you are telling me if Ive read this right is that in your dire hurtful situation you are not being loved...........we here in this place can certainly relate to that one because its our story too.

All I can tell you is what God told me yesterday.........He doesnt want me to hang with anyone that treats me like crap any more EVER!

Of course its going to happen (not being loved)and it will even get worse than it is now, but I will not be seeking it any longer. Thats the difference. If someone treats me wrong then I will know who and what they are!

They simply are not His thats all there is too it. We will know them by their fruits and by their love. When the fruit is rotten it taste like it.

WE have all been used every one of us...........what can I now say sabout it all..........Father forgive them they dont have a clue what they did to me but am I going back to their ways and their treatment of me?

NO way hosea!
If it doesnt feel like love and it doesnt check out with Gods love thats because it aint HIM!
Why would I want to be around the devil?
If i cant get love from anyone I can always giove love to myself and go to my loving Father and my sweet caring brother Jesus to hear and see and feel their arms around me comforting me and in the meantime this treatement from the pharisees sure does hurt and by the way its not a sin to cry about it.

"blessed are they who mourn for they shall be comforted"

If you do not mourn this world you cannot recieve Gods comfort becasuse believe me its hurting Him a lot more than it will ever hurt us the way His so called children treat their own.

Stay here and receive our comfort my friend and our love. Be encouraged to know the real loving caring God that is the truth!

[Spiny Norman]

... what are you and you husband gaining by being in this position?
Perhaps it ought to be about cheerfully giving, not about what one gains from it. If one is serving because one likes how others think of you because you are serving, or some kind of status thing, or whatever ... then isn't that likely to be a wrong motivation? We all serve others as unto the Lord. I reckon that if we're serving the Lord because of what we 'get out of it', then we're better off not serving at all?!

[Willow]

Perhaps it ought to be about cheerfully giving, not about what one gains from it. If one is serving because one likes how others think of you because you are serving, or some kind of status thing, or whatever ... then isn't that likely to be a wrong motivation? We all serve others as unto the Lord. I reckon that if we're serving the Lord because of what we 'get out of it', then we're better off not serving at all?!


I can relate with this on one level Norman. It's much more fun to give if you are not keeping track. HOWEVER... the only way it can work is if both sides are playing by these same unselfish rules. As you found out... if the giving doesn't go from the top down as well as the bottom up, the bottom people soon get overused and abused. So... yes... I do expect to get something back when I give. When I bend forward to help... I expect the receiver to bend forward to receive... not stand there like an idol forcing me to bend farther and farther until I'm groveling at their feet. If you keep on giving and not receiving... soon burnout and bitterness will ensue. We have to draw the line somewhere. When the giving is only one-sided, it's just not healthy.

[leelees]

i can feel a torrade of stones being thrown my way....thats just how i feel, sorry

[Willow]

i can feel a torrade of stones being thrown my way....thats just how i feel, sorry

I'm most definitely not throwing any stones your way leelees. I hope it didn't come across that way. Unintended if something flew by your head from me.

[leelees]

lol

[Spiny Norman]

I can relate with this on one level Norman. It's much more fun to give if you are not keeping track. HOWEVER... the only way it can work is if both sides are playing by these same unselfish rules. As you found out... if the giving doesn't go from the top down as well as the bottom up, the bottom people soon get overused and abused. So... yes... I do expect to get something back when I give. When I bend forward to help... I expect the receiver to bend forward to receive... not stand there like an idol forcing me to bend farther and farther until I'm groveling at their feet. If you keep on giving and not receiving... soon burnout and bitterness will ensue. We have to draw the line somewhere. When the giving is only one-sided, it's just not healthy.
I don't disagree with your thoughts. I'm just looking at it from a different angle. There are a number of scenarios:
-- I'm giving because of what I get out of it
-- I'm giving because of what I and the other person gets from it
-- I'm giving because of what the other person gets from it

... and there's a whole spectrum there. Jesus, being God, gave because of what we got out of His service and sacrifice. He's our model. Its something to aim for.

If we're giving and giving and we're not happy with the situation, then as I said a few posts back (agreeing with your thoughts I think) that maybe we're better not giving. So aren't we in agreement with each other?

[Spiny Norman]

this is going to sound really bad and i dont mean it in a horrible way whatso ever but i do find your replies quite hard to deal with spiny norman....i feel almost as if im being preached at...hmm...im really sorry x
It might be my personality. On the Myers-Briggs system I am an INTP (the "architect") ... I pay almost no attention to emotions and operate almost entirely rationally/intellectually. The following (from Wiki) might shed some light on it:

Architects are introspective, pragmatic, informative, and attentive. The scientific systemization of all knowledge is highly developed in Architects, who are intensely curious and see the world as something to be understood. Their primary interest is to determine how things are structured, built, or configured. Architects are designers of theoretical systems and new technologies. Rearranging the environment to fit their design is a distant goal of Architects.

Of all the role variants, Architects are the most logically and verbally precise. In casual conversations, they may be tempted to point out errors the other speaker makes, with the simple goal of maintaining clarity within the exchange. In serious discussions, Architects' abilities to detect distinctions, inconsistencies, contradictions, and frame arguments gives them an enormous advantage. In debates, Architects can sometimes be devastating, or alienate themselves from the group with overly logical arguments.

Of all the role variants, Architects have the greatest ability to analyze the world in depth. They prefer to quietly work alone and they may shut other people out if they are focused on analysis. This, coupled with the fact that Architects are usually shy, makes it difficult for other individuals to get to know them. In social exchanges, Architects are more interested in informing others about what they have learned than they are interested in directing the actions of others.

Credentials or other forms of traditional authority do not impress Architects. Instead, logically coherent statements are the only things that seem to persuade them. Architects highly value intelligence, and can be impatient with people with less ability than they have. Architects often perceive themselves as being one of the few individuals capable of defining the ends a society must achieve and will often strive to find the most efficient means to accomplish their ends. This perspective can make Architects seem arrogant to others.

Sorry if I've appeared overly detached or 'preachy'. Its probably just the way my personality is wired.

[Willow]

I think we must agree. I admit I was a little baffled at what seemed to be contradicting messages. I like number 2 scenario the best. Win/Win?

I don't disagree with your thoughts. I'm just looking at it from a different angle. There are a number of scenarios:
-- I'm giving because of what I get out of it
-- I'm giving because of what I and the other person gets from it
-- I'm giving because of what the other person gets from it

... and there's a whole spectrum there. Jesus, being God, gave because of what we got out of His service and sacrifice. He's our model. Its something to aim for.

If we're giving and giving and we're not happy with the situation, then as I said a few posts back (agreeing with your thoughts I think) that maybe we're better not giving. So aren't we in agreement with each other?

[Hope 98]

-- I'm giving because of what I get out of it
-- I'm giving because of what I and the other person gets from it
-- I'm giving because of what the other person gets from it

... and there's a whole spectrum there. Jesus, being God, gave because of what we got out of His service and sacrifice. He's our model. Its something to aim for.



I'm wondering if it's a fair perspective to say that Jesus gave his service and sacrifice to and for us, but ALSO because God wanted our love in a restored relationship.

Love is a one way deal. Forgiveness is a one way deal.

Relationship is a two way deal - both parties involved both give and receive and the more that is moving in both directions the better.

Theoretically anyway...

[Spiny Norman]

I'm wondering if it's a fair perspective to say that Jesus gave his service and sacrifice to and for us, but ALSO because God wanted our love in a restored relationship.
I was just about to post a whole long things about the difference between want and need, but realised that's just me being an INTP and quarrelling about the use of words ... so I'll keep my pedantry to myself!

I had an old business mentor a few years back, who used to talk with me about positive selfishness ... an open, honest appraisal of "what's good for you AND for me" ... the win-win scenario you were pointing out. I think that's very healthy. Its something I strive for (and fail at) in some of my personal relationships. However I'm not sure I can apply that principle to God without assuming that He has too many human characteristics.

[Willow]

I was just about to post a whole long things about the difference between want and need, but realised that's just me being an INTP and quarrelling about the use of words ... so I'll keep my pedantry to myself!

LOL... i do that too and I'm and INFJ. Go figure! It's easy for me to strain the gnats and swallow the camels. Good on you to realize when to lighten up. That's a goal of mine too!

[leelees]

how do i get to know what my personailty is? i think i can pretty much guess though!
im really sorry...i go through stupid phases or going off some people and then liking them again...i feel like ive offended EVERYONE on this site! i think its like an insight into how others think of me!

*cries*

[dougjb]

Hi Leelees,
You have never offended me. In fact, you have never even come close. I love you because I choose to, even though I have never met you.:D:D:D

dougjb
some food for thought

[Jerry]

how do i get to know what my personailty is? i think i can pretty much guess though!
im really sorry...i go through stupid phases or going off some people and then liking them again...i feel like ive offended EVERYONE on this site! i think its like an insight into how others think of me!

*cries*

I must chime in here and add that while the "English" can be a bit "Daft" :D I would never classify them as offensive :p You fit just fine sweetie ;)

[leelees]

thankyou folks..means alot!

i feel so angry at the moment, mainly cos my computer is a load of ************ bleep bleep bleep!
ive thrown most things across the room! i know i get angry but ive never flipped out that much, i couldnt breath and was shaking soo much i was that angry! still feel mightaly annoyed!