I don't get it!

[Hope 98]

How is this happening again?

I felt so safe! I believed that there was progress! I talked about the hardest issues and thought there was some understanding.

For a pastor to disagree with our decision is one thing. Human beings will always find things to disagree with. But do they recognize the implication that their title makes some folks think that they MUST be right? Sometimes, even themselves?

Only today did it hit me, though hubby may not have mentioned it last week, that the pastor called our decision "unchristian", and suggested that when we pray about it we will change our minds. Did he really think we would make this kind of a decision without taking it up with God in some prayerful way?

How far a jump is it from an "unchristian" decision to losing our salvation?

All these emphatic judgmental words! We offered to leave rather than cause conflict in the church, but he said "we're not rejecting you". Really now - it was hard to tell, and harder to believe.

Hubby thinks that if we were told we don't have to leave, it's over. We can stay and it's all good.

I don't know about that...

Would you stay?

[Willow]

I'm a bit naughty... but if you could handle it emotionally... I'd stay and rub it in that pasturd's face that he can't control you.

On second thought... you prolly ought to leave and protect the peace in your family. I dunno... 6 of one... half a dozen of another!

[Reg]

Sad to hear you may be facing another situation similar to why we're all here.

Not sure what decision you are speaking about. Why he used the word, "unChristian" gives me a hint that he has somewhat of "an us against them mentality". To imply in any way that you may not be a Christian sounds like a tactic controllers use. What is that little voice in your head telling you?

If you want you can PM me with a little more info. Maybe I can help?

Like Amy's suggestion. :) There might be some good info on the AM's thread: New and Polite Communications?

[Gayle]

In one of your posts from the other thread, it seemed like your pastor might be changing his view a bit to be more supportive? Maybe I misunderstood. Now it seems like he's going back on it? My guess is your pastor means well but in reality his comments are ignorant and hurtful....if he says things like "unchristian" of you to make the decision you have - that its coming from his own set of beliefs which he's entitled to and tools of manipulation which he is not entitled to.....which places you in a decision spot of stay or leave.

Some day the pastor may face this situation with his own children/grandchildren if he has any and hopefully his love for them will override his judgmental attitude.

Someone in the other response said to protect the peace in your own family and base your decisions on that. I think that's a good way of looking at it. If the hurt carries on too long it takes longer to resolve later. Wouldn't you much rather focus on this new child coming into your life and the health of your daughter than worry about what others are thinking? Sincerely Gayle

[hornblower]

Ok my 2 cents Hope. The other day I was studying in the word and it hit me as I read that we are to go out and be with Him on the outside of the camp. I more and more believe that the abuse as we call it is really a part of our growth as Christians..........we, I think, are really only maturing in the Lord when we are persecuted. After all Jesus told us we for sure would be didnt He?
Now this isnt to say that they, being the others, the pastors and elders are not being abusive, they are! But we being the true sheep of his pature will always once we sort of pass over into this realm of growing up will be treated this way.
Why, because we are grown thats why, because the system has never been the right system and it cant be anyway becauyse its a business a system in the first place and God is not about being in a human tradition at all.
Im simply saying its not ever going to quit its always going to be this way. I have met and know some pators that are not like this but guerss what they get persecuted and thrown out eventually, it always happens.
Its the worlds way or the highway and I for one choose the highway.

Some christians like my son never go through this stuff why?
Because he already knows its like this anyway, he grew up with it, hes used to it unfortunately.

So he takes what he likes and doesnt pay any attention to anything else. It is what it is for awhile for him. He sees the things that are wrong but he just loves his family and goes on. His church is a pretty good layed back place and they usually deal with things like the abuse and even preach about it. They try to remain free and its working so far.
But if he had a problem that he went to them with and they told him what they are telling you which they might for sure do that too...........I dont think so but maybe they would.......he would ignore them and just go on and do what he thinks is right to do.
You have to live your life this way or else? Be like me and dont go anywhere at all. My husband wont do it and neither will I anymore. Im fed up with all of it its crap and I dont mind saying so.
My son doesnt have a mentally ill daughter that was attacked in a church. I do! There is NO PLACE for us except with Jesus. There are no answers and they (the church authorities) cannot deal with 'no answers'. Too bad! Some day it will happen to all of them and their mouths will be closed.

I have learned that these places are made up of people mostly men that went to colleges where they learn a set of rules and traditional values things they now believe in.

None of that has anything to do with God!
God teaches us in the school room of life. Jesus said call no man your teacher, Im listening to Him, He knows what He is talking about. They crucified Him and He told us to beware of them so I am! I dust off my feet when I encounter them so I dust off a lot because they are everywhere.
This is the lonliness I suffer. I suffer with Him and I would do it a hundred times over again because Jesus knows my situation and believe me He never not once has told me to do this or that, Jesus cries with me...........have you ever seen a pastor in one of these churches do that?
I have, but the ones I have known that did were persecuted just like me and thrown out too.

Its a club! A God club, thats what I say it is. I dont know who those others are and I dont care either they are not worth my time.

[hornblower]

By the way Hope this does not mean to leave there.........I cannot tell you that one at all......just pray about it and He will lead you. Im sure wherever you are He is using you........dont worry about that. You are His and thats what matters!
Oh and that other thing about beware of not fellowshiping with the brethren??????? What are we if we are not the brethren? Where two or more are gathered in My name there I am also. I go to church EVERYDAY! You hope you are my church and all of the other christians that I talk too we have real live fellowship. We are not supposed to even sit and eat with christians that are greedy........so what are these people that use their titles to make money?????????? Thats what it is just a job to them. I cannot judge whats going on in their hearts but I can have some discernment when they are interferring with my prayers and what I am hearing from God.
Isnt that being greedy? They make money off of being a so called Christian.

Paul dealt with them and he didnt care to even talk about them much they were so insignificant but he didnt want to associate with them either. remember where he says they use the name of Christ for their own gain. They preached Christ but they didnt know Him. They just took the tithes and lived off of them. Nothing is new. As it was then its even worse now.

So just use your heart and your head like you always do, it seems more than fine with me.

[Hope 98]

I had an opportunity to straighten out some misunderstandings this morning. I am very tired at this point - everyone in this house is tired. I've been trying to read some of the responses here and they all but turn gibberish on me. I'll try again after some sleep.

Meanwhile - I know this pastor to be well aware of his own shortcomings most of the time, and will admit upfront that he has a tendency toward knee-jerk reactions. This one just went to such an extreme that I don't think he fully realized what he was saying, and more importantly how hurtful it was.

Now that the bigger pieces have been acknowledged, the door is open for other things to be addressed as need - though probably with a bit more caution for at least a while.

More after some real rest.