Starting a church and other quandries of spiritual recovery

[outcast]

So, a few weeks ago hubby and I ran into the former youth pastors from our cult church and they informed us that they were starting their own church. A little history is needed here. Said couple (let's call them Kevin and Trish to prevent confusion during the narrative), had been the ones to try to alert us and others to the cult pastor's perverted behavior. When they left, alot of people went with them and they finally ended up helping a guy start his own church. He asked them to be the youth pastors there.

Kevin and Trish have been at this church for the past 5 or so years. They loved their new church and seemed smitten by the pastor. Because of that hubby and I steered clear of this church because we saw things that we really didn't like that reminded us of the cult we left. Recently, they left due to massive financial indescretions on the part of their pastor. Their frustrations in this area are quite valid and their story sad.

As many of us have since leaving our abusive churches, Kevin and Trish have become extremely cynical about finding a healthy, charismatic type church in this area. Their solution was to start their own.

Mind you, I do not have anything against someone starting their own church. I can understand why they would feel the need after what I've seen in churches over the past few years. However, I feel this is an endeavor that should not be taken lightly or without great humility.

Hubby and I went to dinner with this couple and throughout the course of conversation realized that the only reason they invited us over was to solicit our abilities to help them start their new fellowship. Kevin tried many different manipulative tactics to do this and was unsuccessful at all turns.

I felt bad for his wife because she seems quite sincere in her desire to want to be a good pastor and to provide a place where people can worship freely. Kevin, however, is quite controlling and has as many abusive tendencies as my former cult pastor did.

This experience made me realize a few things. First of all that my ability to discern has sharpened because of what I went through at the cult and at the church after that. I also realized that just because my current church is not perfect, that is not an excuse for me to start my own or to rush out and help others start one. It would've been very easy to have joined their congregation because it would have been so familiar. Instead, we chose to stay where we are and to in essence, suck it up. I know we will be happier in the long run, but it was kind of hard to do.

I know this situation was just a test of sorts to see if I would run back to false doctrines and embrace old mindsets. I know I should be elated to have come through it, but sometimes I do miss the good parts of charismatic worship. Sadly though, it is really difficult (if not impossible) to find a church like that in this area that is not filled with crazy people. So, I stick with the Baptists because I feel like it is safe.

I wanted to share this and I hope others here can relate to my situation. As usual, I look forward to reading the feedback. Hope you all are well. Much love.

Outcast :)

[Spiny Norman]

Thanks for your post. It helped me to think about some related (although not the same) issues that I am working through at the moment in respect of my own "search for a safe church".

[Anna Marta]

...cynical about finding a healthy, charismatic type church in this area.
...run back to false doctrines and embrace old mindsets.
...sometimes I do miss the good parts of charismatic worship.
... it is really difficult (if not impossible) to find a church like that ... that is not filled with crazy people.

Sounds like your discernment antenna is functioning GREAT! :cool:

I identify with the statements above.

Frankly, IMHO, I don't know if there are any "healthy" charismatic churches anywhere... every one of those kinds of churches we have participated in do seem to draw the same kinds of personality styles. Don't know if I would call them crazy... but definitely more easily drawn to:

accepting weird worship practices without checking out the biblical basis for them and less apt to take advantage of deeper biblical study not connected to the charismatic flavors
seeking simpler more black and white thinking and answers to some of life's more complex issues
trusting to the point of allowing themselves to be intimidated into being manipulated and/or controlled in order to be a part of "the" group


I would not become a part of a charismatic group, church, organization ever again! Something I have discovered that most legalistic churches cannot comprehend is what I call "shades of gray" My personal outlook is "The law may be black and white, but mercy is in shades of gray!" That is anathema to a legalistic/charismatic thinker.

It is possible to allow God to function in a healthy way in my life without using the "tag" charismatic. I recognize now that I had friends (in my old Lutheranchurch) through which the Holy Spirit functioned who did not have the need to label themselves as charismatic, but who in humility simply allowed God to use them. They made no waves, no divisions, no demands for a specific kind of worship style and did not call attention to themselves. I look back with great respect and personal humility at their example.

Anna Marta

[Spiny Norman]

In many Pentecostal circles, where I have spent most of my adult life as a Christian, there used to be an unhealthy suspicion about those who studied in higher education. Part of the reason, I think, is that they felt that such study was at the expense of "the Spirit" and so attention to things like being led by the Spirit, or operating in the gifts of the Spirit, was suffering. I learned this week that they even had a catch phrase to define this suspicion" "The church is dying by degrees" (mean, of course, university degrees). The fact that this was put about in Bible Colleges (a form of higher education) is amusing.

But I can report that the scene has been changing, at least it has here in Australia. Many AOG pastors are now university educated in a secular degree AND have added a theological qualification of some kind to that as well (e.g. a diploma level in theology or similar). I think this is a good sign that the balance is returning, with more attention being paid to the nuts-n-bolts issues of hermeneutics and so on.

[outcast]

Sounds like your discernment antenna is functioning GREAT! :cool:

I identify with the statements above.

Frankly, IMHO, I don't know if there are any "healthy" charismatic churches anywhere... every one of those kinds of churches we have participated in do seem to draw the same kinds of personality styles. Don't know if I would call them crazy... but definitely more easily drawn to:

accepting weird worship practices without checking out the biblical basis for them and less apt to take advantage of deeper biblical study not connected to the charismatic flavors
seeking simpler more black and white thinking and answers to some of life's more complex issues
trusting to the point of allowing themselves to be intimidated into being manipulated and/or controlled in order to be a part of "the" group


I would not become a part of a charismatic group, church, organization ever again! Something I have discovered that most legalistic churches cannot comprehend is what I call "shades of gray" My personal outlook is "The law may be black and white, but mercy is in shades of gray!" That is anathema to a legalistic/charismatic thinker.

It is possible to allow God to function in a healthy way in my life without using the "tag" charismatic. I recognize now that I had friends (in my old Lutheranchurch) through which the Holy Spirit functioned who did not have the need to label themselves as charismatic, but who in humility simply allowed God to use them. They made no waves, no divisions, no demands for a specific kind of worship style and did not call attention to themselves. I look back with great respect and personal humility at their example.

Anna Marta

You know Anna, I don't think I could've put my feelings as aptly as you do right here! I especially like the summary of characteristics that you listed above about typical charismatic believers. It is nice to realize that although I used to fit that list, I no longer do.

The confusing part of all this though is that sometimes I feel unspiritual because I no longer jump on their bandwagon (or I feel rebellious). Then, I smack myself for thinking that I should allow myself to get sucked into their garbage and legalistic thinking again. Liberty in Christ, I remind myself often, is scary and comes with a high price. I must be will to listen to God for myself, be obedient to Him and trust Him daily.

Thanks so much for the encouragement.

Oh and Spiny, my cult church used to hate higher ed too. When I began working on a Ph D before leaving, they warned me that the devil would use it to bring a spirit of intellectualism on me. :rolleyes: What a crock!