Newby named JaniceB

[JaniceB]

I'm new to this forum and am glad it's here. Years ago I was a member of NACR and read Steps magazine "religiously." But I never thought until lately to look for it on the Internet.

I left an IFBx church over 24 years ago because they couldn't accept the fact that one of their own was a drug addict (me). I was addicted to prescription pills for epilepsy so it wasn't even something I could have avoided by staying away from sin. My epilepsy was better, the drugs were still there, I cut back on the drugs with the direction of my doctor and the church rejected me.

I've written a novel that deals with, among other things, recovery from spiritual abuse and am in the process of self-publishing. I was a little worried that all that was no longer an issue--women in pants suits, KJV only, etc. So I got online to see what was happening now and it looks as if it's worse than ever.

Not only that but as I was proofreading my book I felt my heart ache at the church service scenes. As I read other people's posts on this forum and others it aches again. The old pain is much better but it's far from gone. So I joined you in the hopes that we can all help one another.

Love ya all,
Janice B.

[Jerry]

Dear JaniceB,,,,
WELCOME to "Dysfunction Junction" :D .........We still got the Pharisees and the Sadducee's,,,,,,,,,,,,,,except now we call them "Pastors & Elders" :(

Love Jerry

[FreeinJesus]

Welcome (((JaniceB)))

Yeah....it aint pretty out there.:( I'm amazed many of us
haven't had our faith "shipwrecked" because of the religious abuse & fanaticism.

God isn't putting out the smoldering wicks I guess, but
some of our abusers wouldn't have had a problem doing that. :rolleyes: Just my opinion.

I'm glad you are here.:) Post when you can, I appreciate
reading about people & their journeys...it helps me to heal.

Love,
FreeinJesus

[Anna Marta]

Welcome JaniceB,

Hope you are successful in self publishing your book. Sadly, it seems that is the only way to get some of the most important materials out to the public.

I would so much like to read what you have written. Is it possible to get a "taste" with a short exert?

Anna Marta

[Willow]

JaniceB,

Thanks so much for joining us. I feel like we found another veteran of the war!

Amy aka Willow

[JaniceB]

Thank you to everyone for the warm welcome and kind words. This is tough s**t to heal from.

In response to the request by Anna Marta I have attached an excerpt from my book Tomato Blossoms. It's below this message.

Susan is the main character and her husband, Scott, is in prison. Her son Stephen is in a residential treatment program for juvenile delinquents. She knows Stephen isn’t innocent but she assumes Scott is and is being persecuted for his faith. Sarah is her very co-dependent, care-taking, twelve-year-old daughter.

By the way, I don’t believe Zondervan would want to print this or any of the other big Christian publishers. It has some sex scenes—premarital of course—and some language. I actually changed some of it because it was just to full of my own bitterness but decided that life is life and I’m going to present it as I see it so I didn’t change it all.

Hopefully it will soon be available at www.Lulu.com.

Tomato Blossoms, pages 100 - 103
Copyright 2005, Janice Brookshire

“God will judge you for every impure thought!” Susan jumped in her seat as the pastor increased his volume from a whisper to a shout and slammed his fist on the pulpit. She had almost fallen asleep in church, something she had never done before and would have been very embarrassed about. She looked around to see if anyone had noticed.

“The judgment day is coming, maybe sooner than you think and you will have to answer to Jesus for what you have done and what you have not done. You will have to answer for your wicked thoughts and evil words. You will have to answer for gossiping and lying and cheating. You will have to answer for not honoring your husband, for not tithing.”

Around her some of the men were saying, “Amen,” and “Preach it Pastor.” This was supposed to encourage the pastor to keep going—kind of like audience participation. It was only the men because the women were to be quiet in the church as the Apostle Paul had said.

The voices in Susan’s head were not quiet. She was remembering her evil thoughts about being relieved to have Stephen and Scott out of her home. How could she think such a thing? What a thing to feel relief about!

"You will have to tell Jesus who bled and died for you why you didn’t honor your parents, why you were angry with your brother.”

She had been angry recently too, but Tom didn’t seem to think that anger was a sin. He said that when the Bible said to be angry and sin not, that it was saying it was acceptable to be angry as long as you didn’t sin as a result such as throwing things or hitting someone. He said that after feeling the anger it’s a good idea to see if you feel anything else, like hurt or fear. But he didn’t seem to think that anger was so bad.

It sounded good when Tom said it but sitting here in church she began to wonder again if she was doing the right thing by going for this counseling, but what else could she do? I guess I’ll have to answer to God for it if I’m wrong because I’d have to answer for telling a lie if I didn’t go through with it, she thought. Maybe God would understand.

“It is a sin to be angry with your brother. Do you hear me? Do you hear the Word of God on this?” the pastor’s tone might have sounded angry to Susan, but she had long since trained herself not to think critical things of her pastor. “This psychological nonsense about feeling your feelings and sharing with people why you are angry is against scripture! We can’t trade theology for psychology—which, of course, is just ‘selfology.’ It’s selfish, it’s downright selfish!”

A long pause followed and when he spoke again his voice had softened. “A dear lady and faithful member of our church called me yesterday to ask for prayer for her daughter. The lady was just heartbroken because her daughter had been taking her granddaughter to a secular family counseling program. This daughter is trusting unchurched and unsaved counselors to influence her young child’s thinking. And what was the woman’s reason for doing this, you may ask. Why would she endanger herself and her child in such a way?”

A pregnant pause followed as he gazed over the congregation. Finally he spoke again, “She was keeping a promise, she said. Why would she make such a promise to begin with? How could a supposedly Christian mother expose herself and her child to the secular humanism and liberal ideology that such a counselor would have to offer?”

Susan didn’t hear much more than this. Her head was spinning and her heart was thumping and she wanted to leave church now. She looked at her watch and realized the sermon probably wouldn’t be over for another half-hour and then they would have the invitation and then a baptism would follow that. She didn’t dare just get up and leave because she was too afraid everyone would put two and two together and realize that it had been her mother who called the pastor and it was she, Susan, who was taking her daughter to counseling.

The rest of the sermon was a blur as she focused on the golden cross on the cover of the green hymnal in the rack in front of her. She was far away but she wasn’t anywhere. She couldn’t think or feel and so she couldn’t listen.
Sarah, sitting beside her mother hadn’t heard much of the sermon. She had been engrossed in reading a newsletter for young people her age. The story was about a girl in school who was being pressured by friends to skip class. The other girls and boys in Sarah’s age group were sitting together in the back of the church, but her mother didn’t approve of Sarah sitting with them. The pastor often had to stop his sermon and tell them to be quiet, and Susan didn’t want her children being reprimanded. Besides, Sarah thought, since her family had moved away she didn’t see these kids during the week and didn’t know them the way they knew each other.

So she sat with her mother and participated in the singing and remained quiet the rest of the time. The story had her interest but when Susan jumped Sarah’s attention was focused in her direction. Was Momma okay? She looked mad or scared or something. What had the pastor said that could upset her so? She started to worry and wonder what she could do. She racked her brain to try and remember anything she might have heard of the sermon. She felt guilty for not listening. If she had she could help her mother now. She couldn’t do anything, though, so she just sat and stared at her mother who was staring at the hymnal and she hoped that everything would be all right with her mother once they got out of here.

Susan’s mind moved back to Friday night as she continued focusing on the hymnal. She hoped no one at church would find out what she had been doing, especially her mother. If she found out that Susan was out having fun—watching movies—with a bunch of unsaved women she would come unglued.

Of course, going out with those ladies could be a chance to witness to them about the true Christian faith, but that wasn’t why she had gone. Going to the movies wasn’t much of a way to witness to anyone, but she had done it anyway. She had been almost defiant every time she thought about the right and wrong of the situation and right and wrong governed every situation in Susan’s mind. But this morning listening to the music and the prayers and now the sermon, she began to feel guilty about her social activities.

True, no one in her church seemed interested in her any more. In fact, she often thought they were treating her like poison. That must be her imagination because these were nice people who wouldn’t reject someone because that person had fallen into hard times, but it was hard to shake the impression.

As they headed out of the church Susan could feel the guilt she had experienced earlier diminishing while that darn anger started coming back in full force. Her mother had called the pastor about her! The pastor had talked about her from the pulpit! He never asked her personally about her counseling, in fact he hardly spoke to her anymore now that Scott was gone. She didn’t know why but a little demon whispered in her ear that it had something to do with money. She rejected that thought immediately. The pastor was a man of God! Surely he wouldn’t discriminate against people who couldn’t give as generously as they once had.

How would she ever get rid of all at this anger that kept coming over her? At least the church service was over for another week. She should come back for the evening service tonight, but something told her that she probably wouldn’t make it.

[Willow]

Thanks for sharing the excerpt. I visited a church. 2nd visit the associate pastor disclosed a counseling situation in much the same way and judged the counselee from the pulpit! I couldn't believe what had happened. Apparently many people complained because when I went back the next week for a follow-up visit (thinking maybe it was just a fluke)... the senior pastor was reprimanding the congregation for writing letters of complaint against the associate pastor! What a ruse! I never went back. Any time anyone invited me I told them why. I felt so badly for the counselee who wasn't even there to defend herself! - at least I don't think she was there...

[Jerry]

OK where do I get a copy of the rest of that book ????? Hey really looks like a darn good read ;) I am pleased to hear that you didn't "dry-clean" the language.I believe writing should reflect who and what we really are.I am sure you are a nice lady and don't cuss like a "Stevadore",but that doesn't mean your not given to use the occasional shall we say ,,,,,"Colorful Metaphor" :D

Love Jerry

[Anna Marta]

It would be an understatement to say that I am mighty impressed!!! :D:D:eek::D

I sure hope this does get published however you need to do it. There is a new publishing house connected to Joseph Farah of World Net Daily.

I wounder if contacting the people at "www.thegodjourney.com" may also be helpful. If you are not aware of that web site or the lifestream.org you may find them accepting and at the very least supportive of your journey. I have communicated with Wayne and participated in his forum. A healthy place and a good experience for me.

Good Luck
Anna Marta

[Reg]

It would be an understatement to say that I am mighty impressed!!! :D:D:eek::D

I sure hope this does get published however you need to do it. There is a new publishing house connected to Joseph Farah of World Net Daily.

I wounder if contacting the people at "www.thegodjourney.com" may also be helpful. If you are not aware of that web site or the lifestream.org you may find them accepting and at the very least supportive of your journey. I have communicated with Wayne and participated in his forum. A healthy place and a good experience for me.

Good Luck
Anna Marta
Weclome JaniceB. Agree with AM. Love to get a copy when you get it published. You are another witness of the malady of Insititutional Christianity today. One that the church is largely in denial of.

AM,

Looked up Wayne's site. I have been aware of him for several years. Read a section of Why House Churches are Not the Answer.
http://www.rockcanada.org/wb/pages/posts/why-house-church-is-not-the-answer-by-wayne-jacobsen14.php

Here's some quotes from it that stood out for me........

"Here is the problem with most of what passes for church life today, including many house churches: Rather than teaching people how to live dependent on Jesus Christ, it supplants that dependency by its misguided attempt to take the place of Jesus in people's lives. Instead of teaching them how to live in him, they make them dependent on the structures and gatherings of what we call church. Our expressions of church life just become another thing to stand in the way of people living deeply and fully in him.

But people who are learning to live deeply in a relationship with Jesus will find the sheer joy of sharing life with others who are doing the same. They can cross paths for a moment, or walk together for years, without having to manipulate or control each other. Because those people will realize that Jesus is the only one in control after all.

Unfortunately most believers have no idea how to live that way. We seem content to keep them dependent on our programs and services. It explains why so many expressions of church always promise more than they deliver. We can tinker forever with different methods of church life, but if we don't get this right, all our efforts will fall short. If you need help find some people who are living this way, who are not gathering a 'band of disciples', and ask for their help.

Church life grows out of a group of people who are focused on Jesus. Focus on the church, and you will always be disappointed. Focus on Jesus and you will find him building the church all around you."

Super Models

Many people ask me for a model for church life, hoping some future book might lay it out for them. I hate to disappoint them, but I don't even believe there is a model they can implement that will produce the vitality of authentic fellowship. It is not produced in mechanics but in the hearts of people God is transforming to be like himself...........

Beware of any model or would-be leader who wants to tell you what to do, rather than help you hear Jesus. Are there real leaders in the Body of Christ today? Of course! But they are not heading up movements or devising models, they are helping people know who Jesus really is and learn how to follow him. Religion results when men and women, with their best intentions, best activities and best programs try to accomplish God's working. It always leads to well-intentioned programs that will do some good, but never rise to bear the great fruits that God intends and that only he can accomplish.

Many think I'm so concerned about organized religion because I've been hurt by the worst of it. That isn't quite true. I think its greatest danger comes not when it is obviously flawed, but when it works well--giving people an aesthetic experience or a place to park their guilt, and missing out on a real engagement with the King of Glory. When it convinces us that sitting in the same room or greeting each other briefly in the parking lot is real fellowship, we'll miss the greater joy of supportive relationships that will help us all respond better to what God is doing in us.

Accept No Substitutes

What I love about the work of the Spirit in our day is that it is not being driven by an organization, a book or a charismatic speaker. God's Spirit is creating a hunger in his people that defies the confines of religion or a particular way of doing things, and seeks to drink deeply of his presence and share an effective life with other fellow travelers.

[JaniceB]

I'm sure glad I found this forum! I've had "the voices" telling me to stop trying to write books and just analyze data--which I do but I need more.

I hate those voices! It's so good to have new ones to listen to. That Wayne person that Anna Marta and Reg mentioned sounds really good too. As I've been doing more research I've found the one complaint of the folks that I came from is that Christians aren't being "matured to ministry" or "brought into a closer relationship with Christ."

Duh!

When you push people to be something they aren't they aren't going to mature or to be closer to Christ. Jesus wants honesty, not programs.

Janice

[Anna Marta]

Thank you Reg and Janice for engaging me in this way!

We (Steinar and I) have been on a journey that has been extremely hard to articulate adequately. It was through our finding Wayne (and the crew) there that we finally were able to feel someone understood. Wayne did not leave the church, he was thrown out. He and his friend that do the pod casts have gone through many of the same processes we on this forum have experienced.

Their sharing has been inspirational for me. They are honest in how painful that time was at the same time they have been careful not to allow themselves to become bitter and spiteful. Neither are in pastoral ministry anymore, but earn their living in the marketplace, one of them doing remodeling working with his hands. This gives seems to give them the perspective of the average layman who does not have the luxury of spending hours during the day in pursuit of biblical study or writing.

They do not dwell on the past hurt, neither do they deny it or excuse any bad behaviors resulting from it. They look to THIS day and what God is doing today and encourage others to do the same in seeking out an authentic relationship with God.

I may not agree with everything at the site, but I do respect the integrity with which it is presented.

Anna Marta

[Willow]

Looked up Wayne's site. I have been aware of him for several years. Read a section of Why House Churches are Not the Answer.
http://www.rockcanada.org/wb/pages/posts/why-house-church-is-not-the-answer-by-wayne-jacobsen14.php

I bought a couple of his books and found them quite helpful.

[FreeinJesus]

Janice B, AWESOME writing!!

I sure wish you the best!
Let us all know when you get your writing published.

Reg, thanks for the info! What you posted really
makes sense to me.

I'm learning a lot by what everyone posts.
FIJ

[JaniceB]

Thanks, FIJ. Thanks to everyone. You are all so encouraging and it does my heart good. I've put my soul on paper, sent it to the publisher and will soon be distributing it. Can anyone guess that I might feel just a bit vulnerable? It's good though. This is what I need to do, but I'm a little scared.

Thanks again for all the encouragement. I'll let you know as soon as it's available.

JaniceB.

[Anna Marta]

Can anyone guess that I might feel just a bit vulnerable? It's good though. This is what I need to do, but I'm a little scared.


Janice,
I understand very well. That sense of vulnerability is common to anyone who has allowed a part of themselves in the form of a creation to be made available to the world to see (judge, criticize?). It isn't a thing you put out there; it is a part of yourself. It takes courage to share yourself.

My husband has composed some amazing and wonderful music that he has not been able to release publicly even though it has deeply impacted all that have had the privilege to hear it.

Anna Marta

[JaniceB]

Okay, I did it. The book is now available at www.lulu.com. The easiest way to find it is by searching on "tomato blossoms." The ID number is 1911052.

Thanks for all the encouragement. Anna Marta, I hope your husband some day finds the courage to publish too because although it's scary it's also very fulfilling.

Janice B.

[hornblower]

Im not scared to tell any of it. What can anyone do to me that they havent already done to me?
I say this and then have no idea if I mean it or not?