your honest appraisals, please

[gracefull]

I would like some honest feedback on this:

Others May You Cannot

by G. D. Watson

If God has called you to be really like Jesus, He will draw you to a life of crucifixion and humility, and put upon you such demands of obedience, that you will not be able to follow other people, or measure yourself by other Christians, and in many ways He will seem to let other good people do things which He will not let you do.

Other Christians and ministers who seem very religious and useful may push themselves, pull wires, and work schemes to carry out their plans, but you cannot do it; and if you attempt it, you will meet with such failure and rebuke from the Lord as to make you sorely penitent.

Others may boast of themselves, of their work, of their success, of their writings, but the Holy Spirit will not allow you to do any such thing, and if you begin it, He will lead you into some deep mortification that will make you despise yourself and all your good works.

Others may be allowed to succeed in making money, or may have a legacy left to them, but it is likely God will keep you poor, because He wants you to have something far better than gold, namely, a helpless dependence on Him, that He may have the privilege of supplying your needs day by day out of an unseen treasury.

The Lord may let others be honored and put forward, and keep you hidden in obscurity, because He wants you to produce some choice, fragrant fruit for His coming glory, which can only be produced in the shade. He may let others be great, but keep you small. He may let others do a work for Him and get the credit of it, but He will make you work and toil on without knowing how much you are doing; and then to make your work still more precious, He may let others get the credit for the work which you have done, and thus make your reward ten times greater when Jesus comes.

The Holy Spirit will put a strict watch over you, with a jealous love, and will rebuke you for little words and feelings, or for wasting your time, which other Christians never seem distressed over. So make up your mind that God is an infinite Sovereign, and has a right to do as He pleases with His own.

He may not explain to you a thousand things which puzzle your reason in His dealings with you. But if you absolutely sell yourself to be His . . . slave, He will wrap you up in a jealous love, and bestow upon you many blessings which come only to those who are in the inner circle.

Settle it forever, then, that you are to deal directly with the Holy Spirit, and that He is to have the privilege of tying your tongue, or chaining your hand, or closing your eyes, in ways that He does not seem to use with others. Now when you are so possessed with the living God that you are, in your secret heart, pleased and delighted over this peculiar, personal, private, jealous guardianship and management of the Holy Spirit over your life, you will have found the vestibule of Heaven.

[Jerry]

Dear Nursie,,,
Honestly ?????,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,spoken like a true looser .............I don't think much of Watson,but then I don't believe in predestination (save a very few) only as necessary to accomplish His will....... Watson isn't very well studied.Jesus and His family were "Middle Class" of the time...Not Rich,,,,but not beggars either.

Love Jerry...................Interesting post ;)

[FreeinJesus]

Oh.....I didn't even make it half way through that:(
....I just ate.

I'll try to finish it later.:(

....skimmed through & it just makes me think of someone who is burying his talent...that's what I think. I thought Christ came for us to have life & have it more abundantly?!
I just don't believe God is some constant killjoy...YES we should be humble to God, but this never expecting anything good to happen, or to just not try because we aren't living for this life...I see that as burying a persons talent. why try if this life means nothing????:(

[broken_hearted_sheep]

He may not explain to you a thousand things which puzzle your reason in His dealings with you. But if you absolutely sell yourself to be His . . . slave, He will wrap you up in a jealous love, and bestow upon you many blessings which come only to those who are in the inner circle.


"Only to those who are in the inner circle"....sounds off bells and whistles for me.:eek:

I think I understand the author's point, however, sounds like he believes God is all wrath, judgment and little love, patience and mercy.

BH Sheep

[Janice]

bull----!!

[hornblower]

I dont find this upsetting to me that this man wrote this. I dont know if its all true or not.

I do think that if you really are following Jesus and doing what He said to do you will be persecuted for doing that when others that are around you going a different direction. Its definitely happened to me. On the other hand I will never agree with that thing about being a slave........we are Gods children not His slaves...........theres a big difference.

I dont think Paul had no choice in his trip to Rome. I think he wanted to go because he loved God so much that he knew that his suffering would be nothing compared to his resurrection.

I have had the experience of in my own mind and heart NOT being able to follow the crowd.. We would not all be here if we had chosen to keep on doing that and we have suffered because we didnt do what they wanted us to do.
We suffer for freedoms sake and "where the Holy Spirit is there is freedom".

I dont believe that God always wants us poor that isnt scriptural at all. On the other hand I would never say that God wants us rich either. Thats not scriptural to be rich with the worlds goods is Gods will for everyone. No way!

So anyway parts of it I sort of see and other parts of it I think he is going to far. To sum it up though I dont think that this man really knows Gods love.........but maybe Im wrong...........maybe he does and hes had a hard time of it trying to fit in with religious people........I can relate to that.

Certainly if a person tries and tries to succeed at something and they are never put forward........its not God that is not putting them forward its the fact that they are not appreciated by the world and they should be.

Everyone is worth a great deal to God and its not Gods doing to keep them down its the worlds doing and Gods enemies.

This mans words may comfort people who have had a hard time in church in thinking that God is FOR them not against them. It depends on how you read what he is saying.

Its a shame he sees God this way thats what I think. I could not live with that understanding of Gods dealings with me.

I know for sure that I can always ask God anything and He almost always tells me the truth about everything. The only times He doesnt is when He tells me "you dont have to understand EVERYTHING, every time." Some things are faith all by themselves.......if you get my meaning.

On the contrary I feel like the Lord opens my mouth when I should be quiet, moves my hands when they should be still, so my experience is different than those things or maybe and I would prefer this way of putting it.

My natural way of being is to speak and to be animated and hey that doesnt sit well with the powers that be but so what, God CHOSE ME!

If he is talking about not fitting in, yeah I think thats a God thing for sure. But I am not Gods slave but I am as I do love Him so I speak up.

[Anne]

This is my theory:

I think sometimes we people can get confused about our experiences with God. And some of us get so overwhelmed by the awesomeness of our own experience with Him that we maybe take it a little too far past testimony and into a pseudo theology...I guess. I might not be wielding the big terms correctly. But, what I'm trying to say it this, the person who wrote this may have had this experience with God when He was walking with them through their own circumstances. There is truth to be found in the words if you tilt your head and look at it from various angles. But when I look at it straight on, it really sounds to me like an individual's testimony to their own walk with God that could be lifted in praise of His goodness to them in their experience of Him, but is instead being fashioned into a sort of theology, ahammer with which to pound you into admitting to having the same experience (even if you haven't) to prove you actually have a relationship with God. It's almost like the author is saying, "If you have had these problems, challenges, weaknesses and made these mistakes in your life and God has responded to them in this way, you are a believer." If one were to present the author with the testimony of another believer, say one with a more positive view of life or God, someone who experienced the yolk of Jesus as easy and light, the interesting thing would be to see if the author would even acknowledge that the other was a believer.

I wonder...

[FreeinJesus]

(((Anne))) Welcome to the forum by the way...:)

What you posted really makes sense, I can totally see that.
Thanks!
FreeinJesus

(((Hornblower))) Great point about how we are God's CHILDREN.

[Lamisa]

I really appreciated Hornblower's point about us not being slaves, because it made me think "well, doesn't the scripture say we are slaves to Christ" so it got me searching:

(forgive me for quoting out of context =) )

Romans 6:22 "But now you are free from the power of sin and have become slaves of God. Now you do those things that lead to holiness and result in eternal life.

which led me to John 15:15
" I no longer call you slaves because a master doesn't confide in his slaves. Now you are my friends, since I have told you everything the Father told me."

And obviously the Romans verse is referring to the fact that we are no longer slaves to our flesh, but now we submit our flesh to Christ. And the John verse is awesome, and reminds us that He DESIRES to confide in us if we will only sit and listen.

(so Hornblower was correct.... ;) )


Anyway, I thought the original post was pretty good, I don't agree with everything. what I do agree with is that each individual's personal relationship with Christ will be just that.... INDIVIDUAL.. but it does always come down to the truth of Scripture. So, yeah, its gonna be tough, I think EVERY ONE OF US on here definitely knows that!! YEAH??

And I really do truly hope that the pain and suffering and struggle that I have gone through has been a result of God choosing me for something special and that its gonna strengthen me and He will give me the privilege of really really loving some people and comforting some people along the way.

THat's all I know. Kind of vague. But I am just really getting back to the nitty gritty of scripture these days, and it excites me when I read these posts and they spur my heart on and cause me to recall scripture (or at least go thumbing through the Bible for it) that means so much to my heart! It really presses me on and I appreciate it.

I feel like the vast majority of people on here from my experience are strong believers in Christ, and I am really encouraged in the fellowship and community I find here!!

:)



P.S. the post did remind me a lot of the attitude in my cult church which was that we did not really truly acknowledge people's "Real" feelings and emotions, those were usually "sins" and "strongholds", like the fact that I was so excited and passionate about Jesus in my life was a "religious spirit" :confused: bizarre.

I'm thinking of making a website about the old church so if people are looking for info they can find some truth and maybe an escape?

[hornblower]

Lamisa...........have you ever thought about all of these catch phrases that the church in its various denominations are using? Its like fads that pass by just like the world does.

For instance my friends who continue and have not ever suffered my experiences of abuse (basically because they just go on with the flow as always and dont buck anything at all so no persecutions happen to them)

For me and each to their own Im certainly not saying my way is THE way for me its living a lie and I simply cannot do it.

Anyway Ive noticed a big thing down here its "spirits".........everytime something happens to them its a "spirit of something." She has a spirit of anger..........he has a spirit of greed...........on and on and on. I always get quiet and look at them and go and who told you this person had a spirit? Cant they just be human? Like us? Or do you maybe think we are no longer human beings?

You see why I dont have many friends lol.
I smile at least but I cant help it. This superspirituality makes me sick at my stomach.

My oldest friend whom I dont see hardly any more she thinks Im in bitternes so she wont have anything to do with me I know.........she often says she got 'deliverance' from this or that. She also uses this term things are breaking off of her........"strongholds" again. It makes me crazy.

Almost like its a sin to be a human being and 'feel' our feelings. Everything is satan on this side of Christianity...charismatics......theres a demon around every corner ready to pounce on them.
I believe them too.........I think they are almost calling to them........not that I dont deal with a whole bevy of the little stinkers everyday........the truth is though most of it is inside of ME!

What happened to our battle with flesh?

I tend to see it for what I think it is. Running from God. I run from Him because I havent got a clue what love really is. I know I dont because I keep hurting myself doing unhealthy things.

Call it what it is I say!

Then like on the calmer side of Christianity, the so called traditional church, I deal with these women that are so full of masks and rules and its all politics to them. As if God were in the race for president........on and on and on it goes running down this person and that. How are those things Jesus? I dont see that in the word at all.........what are we doing?

It all shows up so huge when you see the lack of love there. All of these people are good people, I know they are much better than I am for sure.

What do I do but come here play solitaire clean house cook and bead. Watch more than my share of tv too..........at least these people are out there helping people maybe?

Maybe I do bury my talents as my stevens minister thinks Im doing but hey I got back to God and simply ask Him ok make it happen and show me what to do......there are only so many hours in a day?

So much waste down here. We dont have a clue really whats going on. We are trully sheep.

This place is my church home.



Its like there is no place for me anywhere outside of here.........sometimes I get so scared. Then other times I feel so much more free than I have ever been.

[Anne]

Thank you for your warm welcome, FreeInJesus!:) I feel loved! Quick question: what does in mean when a person's name is put in a group of parenthesis? Is that like getting a hug? It looks like it feels like a hug.

And, I agree, Hornblower. Based on my own story and experience with SA, I will never let another man (collective "man") - person - tell me again that my feelings and emotions are a sin that must be squelched or corrected. Or, God forbid, cast out! Avoiding a long, drawn out dissection of what all feelings/emotions and our handling of them might entail, the simple point of the matter to me is that feelings are feelings, and are justified by the simple fact that they are. Jesus had feelings. And He emoted. so if feelings/emotions are sins, Jesus had some serious problems; and we are told for a matter of fact that He did not sin. So there. God has feelings/emotions. He is even called a Jealous God. ooooooo.... what to do with THAT one! hmmm But Jesus did demonstrate that He was aware Satan would prey upon His emotions if He allowed it - hence, I believe, His response to Peter's heartfelt cry of, "May it never be!" when Jesus was telling them all He'd be crucified. Jesus said, "Get thee behind me Satan!" I do not claim to know if that was, in fact, directed at Peter or if Jesus was speaking to the air, but whatever the case, He had a boundary that He was reinforcing to protect His mind and heart so He could move forward with what the Father had placed in His fence - the cross. At least, that's what I get from that whole scenario. And then Jesus was extremely frank with His Father in the Garden of Gethsemane later and expressed His feelings and emotions about the journey ahead of Him without any hesitation. It was a part of His prayer, His preparation for going out to do what He new He was made to do.

Gosh, that did turn out long. Oh, well. Anyhoo, the point it I agree about the feelings thing, Hornblower. I have to. If I didn't, I would die. And God would have to just carry me home.

[Anne]

Oh, I'm sorry. I mean I agree with the end statement about feelings that Lamisa posted. Got my posts confused. I apologize.:)

[Lamisa]

Hornblower,

just wanted to share the funny statement that one of the main pastor's at our SA church used to say:

He said he was talking to a pastor and the pastor was like "your not one of those churches that thinks there is a demon under every rock are you"

And our pastor told us his response was "let me ask you, if you found a demon under a rock, would you know what to do with it?"

The church obviously had a HUGE overemphasis on spiritual warfare, and yes, did think there was a demon under every rock. So. Anyway. you reminded me of that. =) and its nice to be able to laugh about it!

And Hornblower, I really have enjoyed our banter and conversations, I want you to know that I really consider you a friend.

You have a great heart, and are so fun. I enjoy talking to you!! =)

[FreeinJesus]

.... Quick question: what does in mean when a person's name is put in a group of parenthesis? Is that like getting a hug? It looks like it feels like a hug.....


Exactly!! :);)

[Anne]

Exactly!! :);)

YES!!! *pumps fist in the air*:cool:

[ex-shep]

Read post. Sounds like a shepherding group to me. Ultralegalistic. There is some troubling coercive pyschology embedded in the prose. I broke out in a cold sweat -- and that from one who has been out for over 20 years. I can relate to violent reactions of the other posters. I do not blame them. I shudder myself. :eek: