The Other Shoe Dropped

[broken_hearted_sheep]

You know, over the last few weeks, my husband and I are taking the appropriate steps to leave the ministry decently and in order. We want to make sure we leave with integrity, whether or not the other side demonstrates it.

Well, this morning at 5:15 I received a call from a leader, one who used to be considered a friend, but no longer. I received a word of "correction" Basically I was told to put up and stop talking about anything the pastors do, no matter what God shows me. Even if they talk about me over the pulpit, I just need to let it go. I was even told to shut things down if people call me. The crazy thing?:eek: No one ever calls me and I don't call people! So who am I talking to? :mad::mad::mad:

We have had several people over the last few weeks see if we are ok. People who don't normally talk to us have emailed us. I know we are the hot topic of gossip and it is insane. We have always called if we won't be in service. We have always told someone what is going on, and yet the gossip monster reigns.

How is it, that at 5:15 am, (and I just went to sleep about 2:15 am because of a teething baby) that I need to be corrected for something I not even doing? :mad::mad::mad::mad:

[jane]

I haven't been following your story.........

but in this post;

That woman has bad boundaries to start with. I don't call anyone at 5 am unless there is an emergency.

More importantly to me was your need to leave in decency and in order.

That was our goal.

As we were finally leaving, we did have visits from friends and calls....to tell us that Satan had us decieved.

when we met with pastor and his wife, they agreed that we were not "in sin" just decieved.......

Long long story...but we were asked not to tell people that we were leaving because it would cause dissension.

We told maybe 3 close friends; friends we had prior to attending the church.

We were shunned in our town as our pastor gets together with other pastors once a month....

Previous to leaving, we were leading ministries and VERY involved in the church. (being trained in a specific church planter group to plant his church)

Now?

We were accused of gossip, lies, bitterness, being too sensitive, being decieved, having too many hurts.

We left 4 years ago and many still shun us when we see them in town.

Recently my husband attended a close friend's funeral.....someone from "the church" was there and informed us that 2 people (one whom I was close with before leaving) died.

We were told that the funeral was so annoited that we should get the video tape!

Not called to grieve together........but my money is good enough to buy a video of it!

SICK.

I believe that by marginalizing those who leave- making them look like gossipers, dividers.......they feel like they still keep others from leaving as well.

this is not God's work- You'll know His people by the fruit that they bear...

many come in His name that He knows not.

I don't pretent to know who God's people are and aren't.......and honestly I am not so sure about how much God has to do with modern day church groups; but I wanted to assure you that your experience isn't isolated; validate that what you are seeing is INSANE......

With cult leaders- even Christian ones.....there is no such thing as leaving in decency and in order; they don't let you leave.

Your character is murdered.

Sounds like you got your hands full taking care of your family-:)

the gossip will change with the next crisis that they have to deal with but the wounds that they inflict will still be bleeding.

4 years ago this May we left.

this isn't something that we "just get over"....

Just my opinion...

jane

[mary]

You know, over the last few weeks, my husband and I are taking the appropriate steps to leave the ministry decently and in order. We want to make sure we leave with integrity, whether or not the other side demonstrates it.

Well, this morning at 5:15 I received a call from a leader, one who used to be considered a friend, but no longer. I received a word of "correction" Basically I was told to put up and stop talking about anything the pastors do, no matter what God shows me. Even if they talk about me over the pulpit, I just need to let it go. I was even told to shut things down if people call me. The crazy thing?:eek: No one ever calls me and I don't call people! So who am I talking to? :mad::mad::mad:

We have had several people over the last few weeks see if we are ok. People who don't normally talk to us have emailed us. I know we are the hot topic of gossip and it is insane. We have always called if we won't be in service. We have always told someone what is going on, and yet the gossip monster reigns.

How is it, that at 5:15 am, (and I just went to sleep about 2:15 am because of a teething baby) that I need to be corrected for something I not even doing? :mad::mad::mad::mad:

Oh, dear, our sweet (((BHS!!!!))) :(

You're blessed to have wee ones, favored by God to have been given them to raise... Plus you have your husband and, I presume, other family members and friends outside of the church. The Lord is your first priority, then your family. As to that "church," here's what I would do if I were you:

1. Have your phone number changed, or screen your calls. DON'T pick up if it's one of "them."

2. Change your e-mail address. Close the account(s) through which they're harassing you.

3. Don't answer the door if they ring the doorbell.

4. Find an alternate place to worship the Lord on Sundays. Your most important relationship is a vertical one (God and YOU); the horizontal relationships (you and others with whom you choose to associate), in the final analysis, are just so much frou-frou. I'm sorry... I know this is hard, but I've had a ton of hard-won experience and you know what? I've found that no one who opposes me (read:you) or who is even on your side is indispensable. NO ONE.

I never thought I could do this, but I've found that I most certainly CAN cut people off who richly deserve to be cut off. I need to allow NO ONE to stay my life who does not encourage "Christ in me." Nor does anyone. In fact, these people are impediments to my walk with the Lord and they need to go. Sometimes, this even includes my husband if his current mood meter happens to be set in "b**thead mode." He's never permanently gone, but there are times that he is no help at all and I need a break from him.

As to these "church people," BHS, I would cut it off clean and sharp. At this point, you owe them precisely nothing. The account has been tallied; the totals have been finalized and notarized and your balance with them is zip, zero, nada.

You wanted to leave with integrity and you've been struggling against mighty odds (which they have set) to do so. Of course, that's admirable, but... "pearls before swine," after all. The more integrity you demonstrate, the worse they treat you. A phone call to a young mother at 5 a.m. is the last straw.

These people are lunatics, but not pitiable ones. They're evil; they sound so much like the clowns we "left." They were right out of a Stephen King novel...

I will pray for you, BHS, that our dear Lord and Savior will give you His peace, not that of these "church people," which is only of the world.

mary

[Reg]

Wise advise given by both Jane & Mary.

You are in for a battle that may seem crazy to you. How can this be happening with people we thought were our friends who we knew so well? Pray for wisdom from above. You will need it. No matter what, don't let anyone lay on you the guilty trip. You have done nothing to feel guilty about. They will try to make you out to be the culprit and manufacture untruths.

When attacked we naturally try to defend ourselves. When dealing with people like these it seems no matter what we say or do it doesn't seem to help. We will not be validated by them. It's so hard just leaving all of it behind when we've invested so much of ourselves there. But, the cleanest and quickest way out is the best. Try not to make it complicated. Just LEAVE.

I have a saying I picked up someplace:

"NEVER EXPLAIN. YOUR FRIENDS DON'T NEED IT AND OTHERS (YOUR ENEMIES) WON'T BELIEVE YOU NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY"

[Jerry]

Dear BHS,,,,
Take heart,you will be fine.Just leave you owe them nothing.Leave them with their "Wonderful Gifts" they are all Dumb Dogs who no nothing more than to return to their own vomit...God knows the difference between the sweet savor that you and your family send Him and their foul stench.Here's what our Savior said of them;


" Brood of vipers!!! How can you ,being evil,speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart,brings forth good things,,,and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things......But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the Day of Judgment.For by your words you will be justified,,,and by your words you will be condemned"

So sweetie,,,,,just let them idiots keep talkin

Love Jerry

[Willow]

How is it, that at 5:15 am, (and I just went to sleep about 2:15 am because of a teething baby) that I need to be corrected for something I not even doing? :mad::mad::mad::mad:

Whoa! That is one PARANOID pasturd!!

[Doug64]

I haven't been following your story.........

but in this post;

That woman has bad boundaries to start with. I don't call anyone at 5 am unless there is an emergency.

More importantly to me was your need to leave in decency and in order.

That was our goal.

As we were finally leaving, we did have visits from friends and calls....to tell us that Satan had us decieved.

when we met with pastor and his wife, they agreed that we were not "in sin" just decieved.......

Long long story...but we were asked not to tell people that we were leaving because it would cause dissension.

We told maybe 3 close friends; friends we had prior to attending the church.

We were shunned in our town as our pastor gets together with other pastors once a month....

Previous to leaving, we were leading ministries and VERY involved in the church. (being trained in a specific church planter group to plant his church)

Now?

We were accused of gossip, lies, bitterness, being too sensitive, being decieved, having too many hurts.

We left 4 years ago and many still shun us when we see them in town.

Recently my husband attended a close friend's funeral.....someone from "the church" was there and informed us that 2 people (one whom I was close with before leaving) died.

We were told that the funeral was so annoited that we should get the video tape!

Not called to grieve together........but my money is good enough to buy a video of it!

SICK.

I believe that by marginalizing those who leave- making them look like gossipers, dividers.......they feel like they still keep others from leaving as well.

this is not God's work- You'll know His people by the fruit that they bear...

many come in His name that He knows not.

I don't pretent to know who God's people are and aren't.......and honestly I am not so sure about how much God has to do with modern day church groups; but I wanted to assure you that your experience isn't isolated; validate that what you are seeing is INSANE......

With cult leaders- even Christian ones.....there is no such thing as leaving in decency and in order; they don't let you leave.

Your character is murdered.

Sounds like you got your hands full taking care of your family-:)

the gossip will change with the next crisis that they have to deal with but the wounds that they inflict will still be bleeding.

4 years ago this May we left.

this isn't something that we "just get over"....

Just my opinion...

jane


The bit about marginalizing stood out to me. They do damage control this way. 'Tell the folks so-and-so left because of a bad attitude so don't socialize with them' is a way to keep others from finding out what you have learned about the group. We saw this a lot in former church.

[broken_hearted_sheep]

Thanks for the insight. Today just took about all the Jesus I have in me to restrain myself and not go off.

For the first time in my life, I have witnessed first-hand, a dead man walking in the church. After many months away, my brother in Christ returned to the church. Although I am glad to see him again, I am sad about his countenance. He literally looks like death. :(:(:(

My brother, who the Lord lifted up, dusted off, sought after and hunted down because he was in the grip of substance abuse; my brother, who left this twisted and perverted assembly of spiritual abuse for a good reason, has been sucked back into the machine. As I typed this, the Pink Floyd song, Welcome to the Machine popped into my head.


Welcome my son, welcome to the machine.
Where have you been? It's alright we know where you've been.
You've been in the pipeline, filling in time,
provided with toys and Scouting for Boys…
Welcome my son, welcome to the machine.
What did you dream? It's alright we told you what to dream…

Why do we seek after the things that do not bring profit to us? Why do we actively seek destruction when God is waiting to breathe life into us? When the Lord cleaned my brother up, he gave credit to the cunning pastors at this institution (and they all too happily ate it up) instead of making sure ALL the glory went to God. Today, as I looked at him, I saw his light was gone. He had lost that special charisma he had. :(:(:(

Spiritual abuse is insidious.:mad: It churns my stomach to watch people behave in drunken spiritual debauchery and think they have arrived on some spiritual plateau because they run, dance, shout etc.
Some don’t know any better. Some do, but are afraid to demand it. Some, the most heinous group of all, know, don’t care and don’t want things to change.

Today, the pastor gave several testimonies about people being healed, and yet, as soon as he was done, all I could grasp amongst the hollow “Hallelujahs” and “Amens” and “Glorys” was the devil has the ability to do parlor tricks. :mad:

I began to shout and praise my heavenly Father as a weapon against all the foolishness I saw displayed today. Someone actually tried to force me to praise the Lord they way they thought I should. (For those who have been keeping score, the same elder that called at 5 in the morning a few days ago.):mad:

I see the devil realized someone has the ability to see him, so it looks like he will lay opossum for awhile, until he gets the opportunity to start his campaign again.

I watched the pastor hug my brother, call him a son and play the role of the father of the prodigal perfectly. I was crying from sorrow, not happiness like other people.:(

How long will the honeymoon last? Not long I’m sure, but when the gloves come off, unfortunately, I think my brother won’t make it this time. :(

[jane]

I am not sure if you were asking for advice.....

but we had close friends in our church body with the very same problem as what you described.

We gave them a bed in our home, food in their bellys...money, prayers, love...

we watched one guy leave and return so many times it was hard to see if it was our church or the heroin that was his drug- perhaps both.

My advice?
If he belongs to Christ, let christ carry him on His shoulders- let the Lord carry that burden......Let the Lord love that man and take him exactly as he is.....that is what the cross is for. You don't need to pick up any dead weight...

while you get healed from your own battle wounds.

ALSO:
No one should be telling you how to worship- sounds like mindgames/mindcontrol to me and not worship.

JMO

jane

[hornblower]

You know, over the last few weeks, my husband and I are taking the appropriate steps to leave the ministry decently and in order. We want to make sure we leave with integrity, whether or not the other side demonstrates it.

Well, this morning at 5:15 I received a call from a leader, one who used to be considered a friend, but no longer. I received a word of "correction" Basically I was told to put up and stop talking about anything the pastors do, no matter what God shows me. Even if they talk about me over the pulpit, I just need to let it go. I was even told to shut things down if people call me. The crazy thing?:eek: No one ever calls me and I don't call people! So who am I talking to? :mad::mad::mad:

We have had several people over the last few weeks see if we are ok. People who don't normally talk to us have emailed us. I know we are the hot topic of gossip and it is insane. We have always called if we won't be in service. We have always told someone what is going on, and yet the gossip monster reigns.

How is it, that at 5:15 am, (and I just went to sleep about 2:15 am because of a teething baby) that I need to be corrected for something I not even doing? :mad::mad::mad::mad:


Obviously this person thinks they are doing what God wanted them to do by straightening someone out, so to speak..........at 5:15 in the morning (?)!

I would say that GOD is the only person who would ever attempt to straighten someone out at 5:15 in the morning which will tell you who she is being led by right?!

Crazies thats what all of that is.

Bless your heart try to ignore it if you can and I doubt if I would be able too but take it from me get away from this person if you can.
Run!

[hornblower]

broken hearted, remember that scripture that many will come in His name saying they cast out demons and etc..............only to find out He never knew them.........

so be it. so it is.
Im praying for your dear brother.

[NewmanTC]

I'm sorry for your struggle. My family has also gotten those early morning calls. It truly is sick to watch churches get caught up in a cycle of abuse and control.

The people that did the calling were completely caught up in this self-righteous quest they had set up for themselves. It's like somewhere along the road of religion, God's law began to shift to their law. Following the law became more important that what the law was actually teaching, or even the One who taught it to begin with. They pump themselves up with ideas of self-importance, doing God's work... you get the idea. I have never dealt with these people with any measure of success, and it's rare that I see others do much better. I would agree with some of the advice given here already: get out. Limit exposure to them as much as possible. When you do have to deal with them, be careful about showing too much emotion, don't share details about your family life, and try to end it as soon as possible.

God is watching out for you. He'll be there through the thick of it. It can get better. I'll keep you and your brother in my prayers.

[ex-shep]

Nice church. I am sure it comes highly reccomended. I have seen that before. I remember members of one group were literally kicked out on the street at three in the morning.

I can relate to the post. I cringe anytime I hear "Satan is making you leave the church". I still hear it in the fundalmentalist shepherding group a friend of mind was in. The emphasis, a subtle slight of hand, is Satan wants you to leave the church. It creates further bondage to the group. I have heard enough Billy Graham crusades, "It is not the Methodist or Baptist church that saves, only a saving relationship with Jesus Christ". I want to scream, "It's the relationship, stupid". [Maybe not the most compassionate and Christlike attitude, but the reader can understand my frustration]

[hornblower]

Exactly shep it is most certainly the relationship! Im so weary of teachings. Its boggles my mind. I try to listen to tv sometimes, usually JM, but like this morning I listened and now im confused again.

On one hand they say get alone with God and have a relationship with Him..........believe..........I can dig that, but then..........put on the full armour............walk out and make the devil tremble........get your mind wrapped around scriptures and fight the devil..........be a success in life not a failure..............put a smile on your face twenty four seven.........dont let your feelings rule you..........listen to the thoughts you are thinking and be aware of what the evil one is putting in your mind and then fight him off by replacing these thoughts...........for instance dont ever think about a past event and let it get you mad........ do good deeds.............dont be passive............dont let your feelings rule you.........

man thats a lot to do for me anyway they must be hercules!


All of this teaching sounds so wonderful, so good and I want to hold on to it.......I used too.

BUT............whats the deal about when my daughter comes over with her, excuse me, but its true her crazy making stuff and I cant handle it at all and I scream at her and she returns the favor.........at descible levels............I pray, I seek, and I want it to change............I swear this to you............a lot of the time even if someone else is praying for my daughter to get well along with me, it seems like to me she gets worse..........now Im almost scared to pray for her at times unless its just maintaining sort of, if you know what I mean.

Dont get me wrong i do pray and I do believe in prayer but that fighting sort of thing...........I dont know its not in me and maybe it needs to be but a lot of it now sounds rediculous to me...........basically I lift things up to God and give it to Him for Him to work out...........if it isnt I do that again and again...........If God cant take care of me and her then I guess I dont know whats going on at all.

Mt stevens minister is trying to make me swallow the idea that all of my trials are for a reason and that resason is because i need to learn something from God......... He is trying to fix me because im broke..............

Im broke allright! From being around people that believe in that trash. I dont want to arfuwe with her about anything but Im sorry I gave up that crap a long time ago. I knwo God teaches me He is teaching me all of the time but I no longer believe that He makes my daughter ill or He makes war or even that God brings tornados or hurricanes to destroy people I simply dont buy into it.

This is one reason I got in trouble in that bible study BSF.........I said if God brings destruction to the rearth in the form of storms hurricanes and sunamis and it kills thousands of people then why did Jesus who is God Himself tell the storms to stop...........wouldnt that be the same thing as the pharisees telling Him not to heal on the sabbath? Telling Him that He couldnt heal people and that He was the devil healing people? Then Jesus said If I am the devil and I heal people then a house divided against itself cannot stand...........

These are the things we need to be talking about. Who is GOD? Is God good or is He bad and good? If we see that God is good really really good...........and that He loves us and gives us no bad thing like a good father would do if we could have ever had one..........then God cannot be doing the things they are telling us He does like teaching us through bad times. The bad times come Lord dont I know it but when they do...like they did to Jesus Himself...........God is with us to love us and bring us to heaven some day............in this world there is tribulation...........we have to suffer like everyone else does............thats the way it is.

For me...........I am so glad I am never alone. I think whats wrong is that somebody decided that 'Gods will' thing was wrong and that God wants to heal us and do miracles. It need to happen that belief. Just like the 'sixties' it needed to come about because stuff that was happening in the fifties were wrong. Falsehood and hidding things everywhere. But its all gone too far way over the edge.

Yes God does miracles I know He does but not all of the time. Im never going to give up hope that God will heal my daughter and that she can maybe even get married someday if she wants too, or have good friends, I wish and pray the very best for her. If it doesnt happen.........its because God couldnt for some reason do it now and here but He WILL Make it up to me and to her we are not suffering for nothing!

I do feel like such a failure in life. I want to succeed and then in a way I dont. I was a success in church and look where I am now? If I was talking to JM, I know what she would say to me, the same thing my stevens minister preaches almost anyway. I should have told the devil to simply get behind me and gone on with going and ministering in churches and not let that or those people do anything to me..........just leave and go somewhere else and start all over again and get hurt again too because thats what always happens the minute anyone finds out that I have a mentally ill daughter who was almost murdered as a child.

I swear this is so true. One of my friends told me one time.........I worked with her and she was supposed to be a bible student minister of sorts in a very large church down here...........she told me that she always figured that I was making all of my story up and that none of it was really true anyway.

I am stuck now. I stay to myself because if I dont and I get out there in churches I will say something, I know I will, because I cannot stand the lies people believe in.........

the biggest lie............you cant hear God talk to you! Or Never tell anyone God talks to you! Say what??????????????????

If you cant hear Him then He must not be alive. If Hes not alive what are we doing?????????????????????

If they do not have a relationship with Jesus why are they in church? What are they there for? God knows its the most boring place on the planet! If they want a show go to Vegas...........yuk!.............most of them do anyway.

Honestly I feel like I am like a John........I rest my head on Jesus' shoulder and He tells me He loves me and I am His............this is where I am and this is where I want to stay. Its safe here. What difference does it make what I do as long as I am with Him?

I used to passionately love people and I still do if they will not be cruel to me but now most of the time I dont get close any more, I dont trust anybody any more. Not even my own family. Id rather be on the isle of Patmos!

[broken_hearted_sheep]

:((((((((((hornblower))))))) I feel your pain in my own gut. I am so sick of the hypocrisy and false religion, isolation seems the only way to survive. :(

You know, this week my dear sister who is about to have her son any day now is going through more stress than she needs to. :(

She is the daughter-in-law of the pastors at our church. A month ago they cancelled her shower b/c the girl in charge didn't "clear it" with them???? The last time my sis and her hubby had a baby, it was like the Second Coming of Christ...this time? Not even a word of excitement.

My sister called me and told me her husband, the pastor's son (and soon to be assistant pastor), told her he probably wouldn't be coming home this weekend? Ummmm, excuse me? Your wife is about to have a baby (any day now) and you can't come home?

At the beginning of the year he had a secretive hospitalization for a "blood disorder." People are not allowed to know what was going on. It is insane.

Since that time, my bro-in-law has gone off the deep end. He wanted the baby, but now ignores my sister. It's INSANE!!!!:mad:

I really feel pity for him because he is just sick and doing what he has been trained to do by his parents BUT right is right. I want her entire family (husband too) to leave this place so they can be healed, but mommy and daddy dearest have their hooks so deep in their son, its insane. :mad::mad::mad:

Everytime my sister and her husband fight, he tells his parents and they talk about her over the pulpit, go to her house and bully here...they even say things inappropriate to my nephews (ages 9 & 6) about their mother. I decided w/my bro-in-law to reschedule the shower over their house instead
and now I can't get any of the sisters from church to even respond to the invites because of the personal attacks and nonsense. They all have something else to do?

My husband suggested the pastors are upset w/her for getting pregnant and taking their son away from the empire of the church, since he was being installed as the assistant pastor sometime this month. Could people be so cruel to their own flesh and blood to look at this baby as a curse instead of a blessing?

Any thoughts how I can encourage her? My sister is no angel, but she doesn't deserve to be treated like this. She knows the truth about this family, this church, but she's so entrenched, nothing I say about getting out would even register. These people would try to take her kids from her. She told me earlier this week, the pastor wants to create bedrooms for the boys at their house because they should be the ones to raise them. She said he said it in a joking matter, but I'm pretty sure he's serious.

This makes me so angry!!!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[mary]

OUCH!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Sometimes it hurts worse to see your family victimized by people like this than it does when it's done only to you, doesn't it, B. H. Sheep?!

I'm so sorry this is happening... What a disgrace to these people - and how sad for your sister and her little nuclear family.

I will put her, her family and you all in immediate, fervent prayer. :o :(

Love in our Lord Jesus Christ,

mary

[broken_hearted_sheep]

Thanks Mary!!!! I really appreciate it.

[Jerry]

I have seen guys take a stand where they are and die for their country,,,,,,,,,,,,,and I have seen guys retreat,and live to vanquish the enemy the following day.I have learned that victory is a collaboration that neither one can win the war . Yes Dieing for your country is a noble thing,but it is far better if the enemy dies for his ;) Think about those things before deciding what to do .......
Love Jerry