Cynicism

[broken_hearted_sheep]

Thanks for writing and posting your experiences, it helps me a lot. Hope you are all doing well. I have a question for anyone who may be able to answer it.

Since I have to come to terms with the fact we need to leave our abusive church, I have really struggled with my relationship with God. I love to read the Bible, pray. I talk to God all day, especially when my five year old and one year old take me there:p I know He's real. I know He's a provider, a healer, a way maker, a deliverer. But there is something wrong. I feel like maybe I've become disconnected. Perhaps I don't want to be connected because of the pain; I really just don't know.

I am struggling with my faith. I feel like I am in the movie The Matrix. I feel like Neo; people say who I am, but I am just not so sure. In his case, he was the one who could defeat and deliver the people from the machines. Well, I was told I was a lot of different things, and right now, I'm not sure if it was really from Him or just people "prophelying" to me.::eek:

I have become cynical about church. I don't want to be bitter, but I am just so detached. I feel like all of the noise, praying, praise and worship is just a drug for people's emotions. Like it was all a lie. For twenty-four years I was an agnostic who endured twelve years of Catholic school. In college, I used to make fun of charismatic Christians, the kind of Christian I became. I used to hide behind Plato, Aristotle and other philosophers. I studied other world religions. When I joined the church, I felt like I knew where I belonged for the first time in my life. And now, I feel empty.:confused:

I am really finding it tough to separate true Holy Spirit influenced things and things that tickled my emotions. It's like when you find out Santa Claus isn't real, but there is this part of you that desparately wants to believe he is.

Any thoughts?

[Jerry]

When I joined the church, I felt like I knew where I belonged for the first time in my life. And now, I feel empty.:confused:

I am really finding it tough to separate true Holy Spirit influenced things and things that tickled my emotions. It's like when you find out Santa Claus isn't real, but there is this part of you that desparately wants to believe he is.

Any thoughts?

Dear BHSheep,,,
Your looking through the wrong end of the telescope.You never disconnected from Christianity,but the minute it became abusive,Christianity disconnected from you ;)

Love Jerry

[mary]

That's right, Jerry...

BHS, I know where you're coming from... I, too, am an escapee from Catholicism (over 16 years, through two degrees and some grad school, in Catholic schools; I, too, got into Aristotelian philosophy through Jesuit university professors both in undergrad and graduate school. Messes you up big-time, until the Holy Spirit does His work in you.). I never really believed in it and went where I always felt I belonged, which is Reformed Protestantism. Problem: while I have encountered some kind-hearted people there, for the most part, people have been mean, cruel, disconnected, heartless, "no fruit of the Spirit," etc. Why is there no winsomeness, no peace of Christ, no sincere love for the brethren? There was more "kindness" in Catholicism, for people there don't get close enough to be mean to you. There has been, for me, more "kindness" in Jewish law firms that I've worked in than there has been in the institutional, non-Catholic church, for what do Jews have to offer the world except "mitzvot," acts of kindness that they think earn them divine favor? So, many Jews treat others remarkably well, at least as to their superficial dealings. So many who call themselves "Christians" think they can treat everyone as they please, that "my sins are forgiven," etc. Run roughshod over people; it doesn't matter... Yes, it does! What is the Second Great Commandment????!!!!!

BHS, it's really as Jesus told us it would be: strait is the way, and narrow is the gate, and few there be who find it. (Matthew 7:14.) He really doesn't have many of His real children on this earth, not "many" as we would consider it, and certainly not "many" as would be found in all of these myriad congregations and denominations. Truth be told, He doesn't have "many" of His children even among pastors in these last days. So, what happens when the goats set up "churches?" Chaos, indifference, mayhem, cruelty to those who are really His children... Second Corinthians 2:14-16 - we really are a stench in the nostrils of those who don't belong to Him, because we manifest the "savour of Christ," and to us, we're a reminder that they're perishing. I know, because I was once one of them. I was an agnostic, an atheist - and then the Lord's amazing grace entered. I realized that this truth and this truth only matters in this life: I am a great sinner, and Christ is a great Savior. What are my own duties, therefore? To repent of my own sins; to believe in Jesus Christ, to take the afflictions He sends my way, whether they come through other people or through sickness or whatever, to bear up with His strength, for I have none of my own, and to let Him sanctify me and conform me to His image.

Goat-driven worship doesn't work. It isn't pleasing to God.

That said, okay, it appears to be a grim picture we have to look at. It really isn't. We have to look hard to find those others who truly exhibit the fruit of the Spirit and the right worship of God. They are out there; He has not left us comfortless on this earth. We need to minister to each other... We do a small part of that on this forum, but we're supposed to do it outside of cyberspace, too.

We who are part of His Body, we know it. It isn't emotion-driven; it's the most real thing in the world. Emotions can change from minute to minute, but if you have faith in Christ, you know it and no set of circumstances on this earth can unsettle you or change that fact. Romans 8:35-39!

We are saved. Our eternal life has already begun. It's in Him and through Him, and nothing can dislodge it or remove it from us.

I often don't feel very well, but I always feel well enough simply to pray, "Lord, help!"

You're connected to other real Christians through the bond of Christ's love. You're not connected to those others... Neither am I, and sometimes, it's lonely out here. But we always have our Best Friend to turn to...

Praying for you, BHS; you are being lifted up in prayer right now...

Love in our Lord Jesus Christ,

mary

[FreeinJesus]

Dear (((Broken Hearted Sheep)))

This is just my humble opinion, but I feel it's perfectly natural to feel an aversion to "religion" or "church" after Spiritual Abuse. I think it's quite allright to even step back from the church scene to get your head cleared out & your thinking straight. Though some might think you "have" to, or "should" be some type of "member" in some type of "church", I can say now, after our SA experience I no longer agree w/ that conclusion.

You need time to connect with God. I'm not saying this as a fact, but I really believe that some "churches/religions" actually make God harder to connect with!

I love that you brought up the "Matrix"!!:D That is one of the first movies I really watched after exiting abusive church. My husband kept prodding me & I was like, OK...(he realized I was struggling greatly, even though I believe we were absolutely RIGHT & righteous for walking away from an abusive, bible-cult) Since my thinking was changing I saw things watching the Matrix that I hadn't perceived before, it was really eye opening!!!!

My husband & I discuss the Matrix & how we were the ones who chose to take the pill of "the truth" and REALITY! You were too, BHS!!! How many just put up w/ the BS because they have family in it, or they've been in such & such a church for 30 years (no matter that the pastor is an out of control narcissist!) on & on the excuses for remaining in an abusive church. It's painful, but the TRUTH is worth it!! (which pill was the truth one, I think it was the blue one??):) We were living a "false reality" I remember my hub used to say "I'm living a lie"...he saw the trouble way before I did. I was willingly blind for too long.:(

We lost loads of $$$, wasted years on fake relationships to the loss of REAL relationships..loss of a career & opportunities....losses of soo much :(& yet we both agree that we'd rather have these losses then still be in "the MATRIX". I have mixed feelings & sometimes a fog hanging over me, but I can say that truely every single day my thinking becomes better & I get more healing. I believe God is healing me & of course he is using time to help to do that.

I will mention that there were some 'good' people in the group & some who were kind to us....but, once we left & even before really, it seemed we were ostracized (people were talking by now) and we see now, on the other side that all of the supposed "love in Christ" was "love in the XXXXXXX church". We were no longer in the "church/elite club"...we were no longer 'worthy' of their supposed 'love'.
How conditional their love was!!! Why didn't we see it sooner???!!! :confused: Oh well...:(

I can really understand the shaking of your faith after what you experienced, I felt that too....& on bad days I still do.:(
Love your children that are gifts from God & you will also notice, as you already have that they will help you too!!:)
God bless you & I know he hasn't abandoned you,:) even if PEOPLE have!!:(

[SpinningHead]

Welcome BHS...

When we first left our SA church, my head spun! It was hard to know what the right path was anymore, if my prayers made a difference. What I learned was I needed to re-identify my faith as between JUST me and God. Church is a by-product of the (already) faithful coming together. Church doesn't define our faith or even validate it...they are supposed to encourage it. period.

I know it's dark for you right now and it's hard to be comforted when you're experiencing loss. This is your time to mourn and be angry.

This isn't shaking your faith...it's just that you've not experienced this before while having your faith. It's easy to have faith around sunshiney happy Go-God people. When things are bleak...sometimes faith is hard and all that you can hold onto is trust...trust that God IS there, even when our lying feelings tell us different.

Hang in there. It gets better.

BTW...a 5 AND a 1 year old?? You go girl! God Bless YOU!:)

[FreeinJesus]

Welcome BHS...

When we first left our SA church, my head spun!

So that explains your username! :D:p
I first thought of "The Exorcist" :eek: then I thought...no....:D:D

[SpinningHead]

So that explains your username! :D:p
I first thought of "The Exorcist" :eek: then I thought...no....:D:D

Things happened so fast that my head spun faster than Linda Blairs! :D

[FreeinJesus]

Things happened so fast that my head spun faster than Linda Blairs! :D

:):D:D:D:)

[broken_hearted_sheep]

Thank you all. Your thoughts are insightful.

We were out of town for the weekend for a wedding. We were so wiped out we didn't go to church. I called one of the elders to let them know. Another elder called to see why we weren't at church and then the pastor's daughter-in-law called. It floors me that lies and gossip spread like wildfire, but people never let people know you won't be there for a legitimate reason. Insane! :mad:

I feel like the whole revelation of spiritual abuse is beginning to take a serious toll on my family. I feel like I have fallen apart at the expense of my husband and children. There are other things we are dealing with right now, so I am sure that is contributing to the stress in our house, but I am right at the breaking point.

It feels like I am in this long night that never seems to come to an end. I know it has to end, but when? I am really tired of feeling like this.

Although my husband knows and understands what I am talking about, sometimes I think he feels like I am taking things a little too far. I guess he's just not as affected as me.

Oh well. Much love to you all. May our struggles yield much fruit for the Father.

[hopehill]

Thank you all. Your thoughts are insightful.

We were out of town for the weekend for a wedding. We were so wiped out we didn't go to church. I called one of the elders to let them know. Another elder called to see why we weren't at church and then the pastor's daughter-in-law called. It floors me that lies and gossip spread like wildfire, but people never let people know you won't be there for a legitimate reason. Insane! :mad:

I feel like the whole revelation of spiritual abuse is beginning to take a serious toll on my family. I feel like I have fallen apart at the expense of my husband and children. There are other things we are dealing with right now, so I am sure that is contributing to the stress in our house, but I am right at the breaking point.

It feels like I am in this long night that never seems to come to an end. I know it has to end, but when? I am really tired of feeling like this.

Although my husband knows and understands what I am talking about, sometimes I think he feels like I am taking things a little too far. I guess he's just not as affected as me.

Oh well. Much love to you all. May our struggles yield much fruit for the Father.

[Lvanett]

I know just how you must be feeling. Once you've made the decision to leave a SA church, it can really drain the life from you. I know for me, when I decided to leave my SA church, it really took a toll. I prayed about how to do so in a way that I hoped wouldn't cause too much strife. I knew they were going to be p.o.'d, and there'd be repercussions, but I had no idea that the Pastor was going to go on a smear campaign or tell everyone he knew to inform him if they saw or heard from me. I had NO idea of the heartache and pain that his manipulative, vindictive ways would bring. I have lost friends, been unable to attend other churches, and have lost all trust in Christians thanx to this man.



We were out of town for the weekend for a wedding. We were so wiped out we didn't go to church. I called one of the elders to let them know. Another elder called to see why we weren't at church and then the pastor's daughter-in-law called. It floors me that lies and gossip spread like wildfire, but people never let people know you won't be there for a legitimate reason. Insane! :mad:

I can relate with that. Did they call either because they "cared", were "concerned," or because they thought you "sinned"? Hopefully it was out of genuine concern, although phony compassion and concern is just part of the facade. I know all about churches like that, and those who label that which is not sin as "sin." I've been to places where if you stayed home one Sunday (for whatever reason) and you told them but they didn't believe you or were suspicious, they'd call it "sin". God understands, so why can't they?

[broken_hearted_sheep]

So the saga continues...... :(

We have been missing in action (we call to let leadership know most of the time) from Bible study because of work obligations or business trips out of town. We are in charge of a program, and since we have to be there for the program, we have to choose when we will be at church and not at work. (We're trying to build a business, not work for someone else) I am not a driver, so my husband has to drive me.

Well today my husband received a call from one of the leaders saying he must turn in his keys immediately. Apparently this individual left a message on his vm a week ago, but NEVER called the house. I guess there was a problem, and pastor thought my husband was ignoring the message. Really? My husband isn't like that:(:mad::confused::(:mad:

My husband is not upset, because I don't think he really cares. I am floored because I was asked to create this program we are in charge of. Now they want to take our keys? This is so foolish.:mad::mad::mad:

And still, no call from pastors about what is going on. No one calling to ask if everything is ok. I can't stand the pettiness of it all. If you are displeased with us, say so and take the keys, move on. But do you have to run around and play games? These people are old enough to be our parents!:mad::eek:

I guess the Lord is gettting ready to move us up and out quickly. I have a friend who went through this with her husband at a church. She told me be ready to move quickly. I hope this doesn't get ugly:( but I do think it will.

My ears are burning... it must be from being called a Judas.:(

[mary]

I hate to say this, but your friend is right. Dead-on right.

They "want your keys." Same thing happened to me. :( :( :(

Dear (((BHS)))... These people are not of God. They're mean, cruel and cold. Please, please, shake off the dust... Don't let yourself go through what follows, because your intuition is correct re: the "ugly" part. Some of us did go through what naturally follows with people like this and wish we hadn't...

I so wish I could do something to spare you all this!!!!

mary

[Willow]

I think they deserve their keys back... but not the supporting materials/information for the program you developed. Keep all that!

[Jerry]

I think they deserve their keys back... but not the supporting materials/information for the program you developed. Keep all that!


Before you give back the keys,,,,,have your hubby file off one of the points of each key so they woun't work :D :D Thats good for some yucks :D :D

[mary]

Before you give back the keys,,,,,have your hubby file off one of the points of each key so they woun't work :D :D Thats good for some yucks :D :D

It's also way cool... :cool: As in "'Frank Abagnale' cool," Jerry. I love that!

I should've thought of that before I dutifully mailed back the church key after "pastor" told me I was "forever beyond forgiveness." What I did instead was, I mailed it to the attention of the church treasurer - who knew nothing of what had transpired between "pastor" and me - so that he would ask "pastor" why "mary" had mailed her key back... :p "Pastor" would have been put in the position of having to lie to him, which was what I wanted. And I was very comfortable putting him in that position. :D

mary

[Reg]

Before you give back the keys,,,,,have your hubby file off one of the points of each key so they woun't work :D :D Thats good for some yucks :D :D
Love that one Jerry. :D

How about saying to them, "Do you want the copies we made also?" If they say yes, say, "You can't have them. We paid for them." That should make them think. Who knows, if they are real paranoid, they may even replace all the locks.:D Imagine how that will sit with them and everyone else there. :D

It seems no matter what you do, you will be villified. It's how they operate. You might as well make them sweat a little. Like I used to say in the BC (Before Church) days. "I don't get angry any longer, just even." "Revenge is a dish best served cold."

[broken_hearted_sheep]

Thanks for all the suggestions. :D:D:D

Jerry, if I they were my keys instead of my husband's, I might have filed them down. :cool:Please pray for me:D:D

You know, it was funny, two days after my husband was told to turn in the keys, one of the pastors called to offer us a vehicle while ours was down...no thank you, I know the cost of that transaction.:eek::eek:

Then, the assistant pastor called the next day and wanted to know what is it I exactly wanted to do for the church. I have known this person for six years and they have NEVER called me for such a reason. When I told them nothing, they persisted. I guess people just don't understand. For some of us a NO is NOT a slow YES!:mad::mad::mad::mad: NO means NO!!!!!:mad::mad:

The insanity continued as an event I was working on was cancelled b/c it was not run past the leaders....so sad. Leaders says they want to create a chain of command to ease their burdens, but then, want you to still go to them for everything. Oh well, the cancellation didn't hurt me; actually made my day better.

Finally, I think the ultimate happened. The leaders found my myspace page through a mutual friend. I can't wait to see how this turns out. When I saw the friend request all I could think of was, WHY????????

I actually had a moment of panic, fear and nausea come over me when I saw it. It's like cyberspying or something. :(

Oh well. Take care and God bless you all.