Struggling as a former staff member

[Former Staff Member]

I worked for a high-profile ministry and the things that went on behind the scenes! Those who were placed in key positions of power protected and promoted The Big Guy at all costs and made sure his hands and reputation were kept clean from the dirty work they did on his behalf. None of the lower staff drones were allowed contact with him lest they let slip any tidbits of troubled conscience that might blow the lid off his fantasy. That way if ever publicly or privately confronted he could deny all knowledge of the unethical and ungodly manipulations done for him. The world was told it was all for the glory of Jesus but in reality it was all for the glory of The Big Guy. Many of us stayed thinking we could influence change from the inside but left when we found we could not. It is very difficult to prove to those outside what was common knowledge to those inside. It takes staff members in key positions of power willing to out things. Look how many years it took for some of those key people in ORU, etc., to get fed up enough to talk. I hope and pray some in the ministry I was part of will one day do the same.

In the meantime I struggle with fear, distrust, isolation and doubt. My experiences have left me so wounded I wonder if I will ever recover. It has been years since I left my position, but I am still unable to step foot in a church. I can't; I know too much. I've seen the other side of ministry, the dark side that exists behind the sermons, the worship teams, and the platform personalities. I remain a Christian, but a haunted one.

I know there are others out there who, like me, are former staff members of ministries, megachurches, movements, etc. Please share your stories. Perhaps we can finally begin to heal a little.

[Jerry]

Your post sure makes me proud of our board,,,to see you could feel safe enough to post .Welcome to "Disfunction Junction" ;) :D

Love Jerry

[freedom seeker]

oohh, boy. I have so much to say, but have been up since 4:30 AM - so I will have to make a more detailed entry later.

As a start, I think it might help you to understand that you were never "stepping inside the door" of the real church to begin with. There is no need to go back, or "step foot" inside again. Forget about it best you can, and every time you ride by a building with a church name out front begin to try and recondition your brain to think that isn't what it is, nor was it ever intended to be by the founder of the Church Himself. Also, I think it might help if you begin to recondition yourself to forget about church titles, i.e., pastor, elder, etc., and think on the word, ekklesia, the called out church.

You might want to look into the home church movement - great sites out there - just google "home church". I have read a great deal about them, and listened to some of their in home messges and found them to be some of the most authentic I have heard, and they are not "professsional pastors" leading them.

Finally, count it a blessing you are no longer in what you were. Count your "stripes" as hidden healing blessings stripping you away from a lie so you could be grafted into the real Truth, Jesus Himself, the All in All - the truth church.

Hang in there, Brother!

All for now...

Freedom Seeker

[Willow]

Hi FSM,

Yes... I too am tainted from my involvement in the ministry at several different churches. One of them was a church plant off of a large mega church ministry. The pastor had graduated from ORU and much of the other staff. I've found some solace lately in joining AA. I had started to use alcohol to self medicate and in the process of stopping, I found an alternative to church that was scarey at first... still is somewhat because of the structure of AA. However... it has become a safe place and there are no hoops to jump through nor flames thrown. Anyway... just thought I'd put that out there as a fellow disillusioned ministry person.

[FreeinJesus]

...Those who were placed in key positions of power protected and promoted The Big Guy at all costs and made sure his hands and reputation were kept clean from the dirty work they did on his behalf. None of the lower staff drones were allowed contact with him lest they let slip any tidbits of troubled conscience that might blow the lid off his fantasy....The world was told it was all for the glory of Jesus but in reality it was all for the glory of The Big Guy. ... It is very difficult to prove to those outside what was common knowledge to those inside. It takes staff members in key positions of power willing to out things. ...

In the meantime I struggle with fear, distrust, isolation and doubt. My experiences have left me so wounded I wonder if I will ever recover. It has been years since I left my position, but I am still unable to step foot in a church. I can't; I know too much. I've seen the other side of ministry, the dark side that exists behind the sermons, the worship teams, and the platform personalities. I remain a Christian, but a haunted one.


Dear ((Former Staff Member)):)
Welcome to this forum!!

Though I was never a staff person I saw some ugly things in xabusive church. Pastor would say things about people who weren't doing what "he" wanted...example of things he's said about sheep under his ministry to us "well, they aren't very spiritual"..."He's got a long way to go"..."XX is a wealthy man"....I was flabbergasted at what he would say about the sheep under his ministry!! I thought, if he's saying this about others to us, what is he saying about us to THEM?!:confused: Nobody could ever measure up to what he expected anyways...:mad::rolleyes: I know the guy who he called "wealthy" probably didn't want that information getting out...that should have been PRIVATE!!:mad: Then again, xabusivepastor never cared who he would run down or hurt, whether private or from the 'bully-pulpit'.:mad:

Anyhow, we haven't been out even a year, I feel better, but I don't have any desire to go to or "join" a "church". I think that is OK & that God is fine w/ it. If we are all members of his one body & our house is a "spiritual house" then I figure I'm allright. Maybe someday I'll "trust" enough, but for right now I can say that there is A LOT of churchianity that I dont want anything to do with.:(

I hope you heal....Keep focused on HIM...that really helps me because when I think of those who abused & who wrongly judged us I get very very upset, but then I have to say that "OK God, I've been reviled, shunned, tossed out like I'm scum, but if YOU LOVE ME I have to focus on YOU & YOUR love, not the cruelty of MEN." It's a wierd place to be because when I was in abusive *church* I thought I was sooo 'spiritual' & I was part of a group who had the "truth", a "true church!" I"m absolutely floored at how wrong I was!!:(:o Though I questioned in my spirit what was expected of me & certain doctrines, I had been so brainwashed & I was told that any doubts were of satan, so I was bound by the lies & an abusive group for too many years of my life...:(.

WEll, I thank God we got out, but YEP, lots of healing needs to happen.

God will help us all....I believe that.:)
Hang in there!!!

[Former Staff Member]

Thanks folks, I deeply value every person's input.

I know what deep betrayal and pain people in the pews have gone through. You dear people were entrusted by God to be nurtured with compassion by spiritual leaders and instead were coldly, calculatingly victimized. Please don't misunderstand me. I do not have a "we" (staff) vs. "they" (non-staff) mentality or any other idiocy of that ilk. It is simply that my abuse lies in that particular realm of experience, nothing more.

My knowledge of your pain is from the many, many bewildered, upset people who somehow sensed that I was different, that I truly cared. One by one they came and told me horror story after horror story throughout the years I was on staff. The torture on their faces was evidence of the agony in their souls.

To all of you I apologise with all my heart that I and others like me in positions of ministry that you may have tried to turn to were powerless to make it right. I am so, so sorry.

[Willow]

Thanks for the apology former staff member. You are a victim too though. I know of several apologies I've had to make to people... I just consider the underleaders (like I was) victims of the same faulty structure... not calculated abusers. It seems that one can think firmly they are "right" and use that feeling to do a lot of damage... all the while thinking we are doing it "for their own good." At some point God removed the blinders from my eyes and I actually began seeing the damage being done. I had dreams of big machines that would not stop moving and people were being caught in the cogs of the wheels and crushed. That was the church... those were the people whose lives were too messy to fit in the structure. They were eaten mercilessly by the machine. Another dream a woman in leadership was running a carnival ride. She was making it go faster and faster until people were screaming for her to stop. She seemed helpless to stop the ride. The people were being flinged from the seats and into the air, landing on the ground lifeless. The vision, the dogma, the doctrine, the purpose (the machine) had become more important and more powerful than the people it was made to serve.

We are all victims here... I'm thankful your eyes were opened and you took the high road.

[Jerry]

A good (important) point to make with any former staff person.The rolls of "abusee/abuser" often both apply.One has no less severe wounds than the other......... ;)

Love Jerry

[FreeinJesus]

My knowledge of your pain is from the many, many bewildered, upset people who somehow sensed that I was different, that I truly cared. One by one they came and told me horror story after horror story throughout the years I was on staff. The torture on their faces was evidence of the agony in their souls.

To all of you I apologise with all my heart that I and others like me in positions of ministry that you may have tried to turn to were powerless to make it right. I am so, so sorry.

(((Former Staff)))

that's a cyber hug! I think that if a person is involved in a ministry that is going in a bad direction that a person could just get sucked right in....and not intending to do any harm.

God still loves you & all of us, despite our bad choices.:)

It was painful for hubby & I because we had to look in the mirror & ask ourselves "why did we let it go as far as we did putting up with the abuse?" :confused:
I *think* a lot of it was the psychology of we were already *committed* and the teaching was so powerful (like *Hitler* was a powerful speaker:rolleyes:)...we got sucked into the Matrix, the Borg,
Big Brother....:(

With God's help we all keep moving forward!:)
You are in my prayer's, friend.

[SpinningHead]

I worked for a high-profile ministry and the things that went on behind the scenes! Those who were placed in key positions of power protected and promoted The Big Guy at all costs and made sure his hands and reputation were kept clean from the dirty work they did on his behalf. None of the lower staff drones were allowed contact with him lest they let slip any tidbits of troubled conscience that might blow the lid off his fantasy. That way if ever publicly or privately confronted he could deny all knowledge of the unethical and ungodly manipulations done for him. The world was told it was all for the glory of Jesus but in reality it was all for the glory of The Big Guy. Many of us stayed thinking we could influence change from the inside but left when we found we could not. It is very difficult to prove to those outside what was common knowledge to those inside. It takes staff members in key positions of power willing to out things. Look how many years it took for some of those key people in ORU, etc., to get fed up enough to talk. I hope and pray some in the ministry I was part of will one day do the same.


You can archive our stories...but your story is my story. Only we weren't staff...we were heavily involved in the building project and got a clear shot into the core of the leadership for over a year.

It took us 2 years to be able to attend a church regularly but I don't see myself having any part of sign-on-the-dotted-line membership. We've been attending this church for almost a year now...and we're still very low key. Right now it serves it's purpose.

[DeepGrey]

Dear FSM,

I resonated with your posting as I am also a former church staff member. I am struggling deeply with my faith at this point, cannot attend any church without being nauseas and making new friends is proving difficult as I'm very hesitant to trust.

I was so traumatized when I left, I couldn't work under a man again or deal with office politics without immense anxiety. I was fortunate to find a position where I work totally alone. The church recently split which has now deeply fractured my personal relationships even though I left the church a year ago and I'm very close to total isolation.

I went back to the church (with a friend) as it seems the only relational connection I can make these days are with people I trusted before the trauma. Although the split made people see how unhealthy things had become, there is still a high resistance to hearing anything negative. I understand this to a point as without this church, many of us are homeless if not orphaned altogether and as the saying goes, bad love is better than no love at all.

Although the main perpetrators that caused the trauma are gone, I wish I could find another place for spiritual input and comfort other than therapy. I find I cannot read scripture anymore as a comfort and I have anxiety if anyone prays with me.

I think the most distressing thing is that these staff really are very good people but the simple fear of admitting they made a mistake, of losing a small bit of face has been strong enough to cause them to turn their backs on all they believe and the resulting damage has been so extensive, it boggles the mind. The longer it goes on, the harder it has been for them to capitulate and the more suffering and damage continue to spread.

I know I will have to find my own way back to faith somehow. My concern is that the main perpetrator of the abuse (who was fired for abusing others as well) is now at a church many of my friends are encouraging me to attend. Do I tell these people what happened, warn them about this man? Do I send an anonymous letter to their elders? I fear if I send a direct letter there may be severe retaliation, even to the point of physical violence.

Your encouragement was for staff people to speak up...if these were your circumstances, what would you do?

Sincerely,
Deep Grey

[Jerry]

Do I tell these people what happened, warn them about this man? Do I send an anonymous letter to their elders? I fear if I send a direct letter there may be severe retaliation, even to the point of physical violence.

Your encouragement was for staff people to speak up...if these were your circumstances, what would you do?

Sincerely,
Deep Grey

Dear DeepGrey,,,,
As your heart leads and the "Spirit" guides,,,,,remembering that no good deed remains unpunished ;)
Love Jerry

[mrjohnm]

My Friend In Christ...You Are Not Alone.....

The experiences shared by the many here are just so revealing of the blatant abuse at the denomination I was affiliated with... Calvary Chapel.

I don’t need to articulate on my experiences. Suffice it to say that many of the post’s bear witness to the horrid state of affairs at Calvary. Yes, I generalize. I am able to do so only because I know with certainty, based on many years in the movement as an Elder, Church Board Member and Pastor (a Ministry I Truly loved, that the problems of “Executive Privilege” are endemic to the very core of Calvary.

It is tremendously sad. I first met Christ at Calvary. I had a wonderful experience for many years, only to run afoul of the Senior Hierarchy and experience a most devastating and traumatic series of events, which culminated in my being told “…you need to find another place to fellowship…”

Through the study of scripture and the working of the Holy Spirit in my life, I’ve been able to forgive those who brought so much harm to my family and myself.

I am no longer bitter and now fellowship at a little non-denominational church in another town. I will never forget though…and won’t ever set foot in another Calvary Chapel.

My children, having grown up in the "ideal" setting, still bear the scars of the devastating effects of seeing their father put to public ridicule and shame by those with an other than Godly agenda.

May God, have Mercy on the souls of those that participated in the cover-ups and the deliberate and shameful actions for which they are responsible.

Have a most wonderful day.

[Willow]

Do I tell these people what happened, warn them about this man? Do I send an anonymous letter to their elders? I fear if I send a direct letter there may be severe retaliation, even to the point of physical violence.

Your encouragement was for staff people to speak up...if these were your circumstances, what would you do?

Sincerely,
Deep Grey

Are they truly your friends? If one of my friends warned me about a person. You better believe my ears would perk up and my guard would rise to the occasion. On the other hand... if they are not trustworthy friends... the old addage "Do not cast your pearls before swine" would apply.

[Willow]

Hi mrjohn,

I'm very sorry to hear about the scars left on your children. May God use them to minister mercy and compassion to others who are wounded in the future. I remember a little about Calvary Chapel and found what I knew to be rather legalistic and harsh. What I didn't realize at the time was, the ministry I was in was just as bad!

[psalm55]

from former staff member

"To all of you I apologise with all my heart that I and others like me in positions of ministry that you may have tried to turn to were powerless to make it right. I am so, so sorry.

I'm learning that in the types of situations that arise from a ministry gone wrong is that when God gives you the power not to deceive someone, it is
your responsibility not to decieve them. Isn't that really why Jesus came, to proclaim the truth, not a prettied up version of the truth so you'll reach deeply into those pockets while I pass the 'offering' plate?

He sees your heart and your motives and you only have to empty yourself of the trappings of this world for Him to speak to you, discipline you, forgive you and love you.

After the situation I was in, I feel condemned by everyone who has contact with the abusers. From God I feel total acceptance and when I am able to break free for a moment and be myself I find the people around me like me.

Someone in the past at the *church* actually spent time with me not looking for a paycheck, we talked and chatted, and she once said that I was actually sweet and very pleasant to be around and didn't know why the church was beating me up the way they were.

It depends on what side of the equation you are on I guess.

A lot of people left the *church* before I became involved and the pastor went on about how they were hurtful and out to get him, false accusations and all. I bought into it, not knowing about spiritual abuse and not knowing the story, only what he told.

Anyway, he and his wife had a long history of people leaving because of hurt.

The most heart breaking aspect of what I went through is that everyone knew but no-one gave me enough information to understand what had been going on so I ended up tossed between opinions.

[DeepGrey]

Are they truly your friends? If one of my friends warned me about a person. You better believe my ears would perk up and my guard would rise to the occasion. On the other hand... if they are not trustworthy friends... the old addage "Do not cast your pearls before swine" would apply.

Yes, these are very dear trustworthy friends. They have walked through this mess with a lot of integrity and have stood by me while others have left. As Christians, they are 'the real thing' and help me to believe in the body of Christ.

Part of the problem is I knew the man for 8 years, worked with him well for 3 years without incident. After a public scandal threw an huge element of fear into an already unhealthy environment, friends warned me that he was spiritually abusive (which I suspected) and thought I would be able to avoid until I was made his subordinate where the combination of power and needing to punish someone brought out the worst.

I still consider this man a brother in Christ...I view him much like the cop in the movie "Crash", a man capable of great good most days but I unfortunately know the grave harm he can inflict as well.

I have held my tongue in an effort not to gossip or slander as well as hoping time would bring to more to light. I remain silent for this very reason. I am concerned that others will be abused but also wonder if there will be anyone at his new church that would take me seriously.

In the meantime, I pray and wait for God's prompting as to where, when and if to speak up all. That's why I was interested in the subject...it really is a tough question, one to be wrestled with much thought and care as to my own personal motives, direct outcomes and how it effects others.

Deep Grey

[psalm55]

About speaking up, deep grey, speak as the Holy Spirit prompts you. You won't be anyone's friend most likely but you will have been true to the Spirit of God within you.

When seeking counsel on a situation, I mistakenly went to the senior pastor, in our discussion I brought up something that had happened several years before that I had never understood. I felt like the Holy Spirit prompted me. The pastor got very upset, denied that was part of the issue this time, but it turned out he was blatantly lying.

I dont; know if God will ever reach his conscience, this man is so enveloped and protected, so it seems, in his sin, but I know I brought something to his attention in the Holy Spirits timing and it is now up to Him to reach this man and turn his heart back to righteousness.

Anyway, all that to say, pray, search the Scripture and then move as the Holy Spirit leads you whether He prompts a letter or a meeting or some form of public address. I was just reading how we should not be afraid because the Holy Spirit will give us utterance at the appointed time, so maybe that is a word from Scripture for you.

[Former Staff Member]

Dear FSM,

I resonated with your posting as I am also a former church staff member. I am struggling deeply with my faith at this point, cannot attend any church without being nauseas and making new friends is proving difficult as I'm very hesitant to trust.


My concern is that the main perpetrator of the abuse (who was fired for abusing others as well) is now at a church many of my friends are encouraging me to attend. Do I tell these people what happened, warn them about this man? Do I send an anonymous letter to their elders? I fear if I send a direct letter there may be severe retaliation, even to the point of physical violence.


Your encouragement was for staff people to speak up...if these were your circumstances, what would you do?

Sincerely,
Deep Grey


You asked what I would do. I can share how I have handled my situation, but you have to do what you feel is healthy and safe for you.

I would not bother writing an anonymous letter. They likely would not read it. I know that the leadership at my former ministry never read any communication without scanning down to the signature to check who the author was. If it was unsigned or Anonymous they immediately tossed it in the trash.

I do not believe in a Don't ask Don't Tell policy regarding spiritual abuse. When friends Do ask, I Do tell. But I tell very, very carefully. It is incredibly difficult to substantiate undercover goings-on. I personally witnessed reprehensible abuses that I cannot prove. It is merely my word against theirs. As all of us here are well aware, these perpetrators of spiritual abuse are masters of the spin of deception. They place favorite lackeys in key positions of power and of damage control. That is why it tends to take years for the truth to become publicly evident.

And years for us to begin to heal.

[Former Staff Member]

I had dreams of big machines that would not stop moving and people were being caught in the cogs of the wheels and crushed. That was the church... those were the people whose lives were too messy to fit in the structure. They were eaten mercilessly by the machine....... The vision, the dogma, the doctrine, the purpose (the machine) had become more important and more powerful than the people it was made to serve.


Chillingly accurate analogy. Nearly word for word the way I expressed, shortly before I left, what the ministry I served under was actually doing to its people. Few listened. Denial is a deep, deep river.

[mrjohnm]

Chillingly accurate analogy. Nearly word for word the way I expressed, shortly before I left, what the ministry I served under was actually doing to its people. Few listened. Denial is a deep, deep river.


I agree...."Chillingly Accurate" is such a descriptive response. I am saddened for those still in the powerful feeding place of modeling the "Christian" way of life to the flock...yet consumed by their own ego and misconstrued understanding of what feeding the flock is truly about (having once been there, I know of what I speak). More so, I feel intensely saddened for those in the flock.....I am however, so very happy to be free of that bondage.

Jesus reigns supreme

Have a wonderdul day.

[mrjohnm]

From another Former Staff Member....

Perhaps giving my post immediately below, a bit of perspective:

We see it in the news, we see it at the churches, we see it in the damaged and anguished faces of the sheep of the flock....

How about the years I spent shunning people, good Godly people. Men, women, old and young alike....taking there precious Ministries away from them...small Ministries...but ever so effective to the health of the local church.

Why did they lose there Ministries...they didn't absolutely agree with a point or two the Pastor may have preached recently. Not that they would preach against his point...they simply questioned it, looking for more Biblical depth to his teaching from the pulpit. For so many years, I was an Elder/Pastor, I had Bought in to the Moses leadership style so prevalent in the denomination and if my Pastor said these people were potential nay sayers or back-biters...out they went. I participated in it. I took Ministries away. I looked precious elder men and women (who had HEARTS for God)...in the eye and told them their Ministry had been put on hold and taken off the calendar, while we wait on the Lord!!! It only took a while, as there "friends" turned from them and left them hanging...before they left the place they'd come to know as Sanctuary (there local Church), and the Pastor could let go a sigh of relief...safe once again (a little insecure in his Ministry...wouldn't you say).

After the Pastor's wife had a lengthy affair with one of the worship team members....the Founder of the denomination absolved them, suggesting they get marriage counsel from a person he knew. (Three visits - to of all things a SECULAR therapist...an absolute abomination as taught from the pulpit...after which all was well again). The Pastor would not consider any form of sabbatical, saying that the false love of those in Leadership, toward he and his wife "disgusted him" and that the church would be better off if he stayed at the helm (Absolute Control). The vocal ones...not vocal to the church, but to Senior Leadership, didn't even suggest a resignation. just some time off, with full benefits, to work on the marriage. These were Godly Men and Women. Their hope was to see God do a magnificent work in the lives of these two. They were put on the "backbiters List"...and taken care of. I participated once again. Pretty soon, they too were gone...and the Pastor could one more time let that sigh of relief, as he was again safe. Once more, the Mose's Principal of Absolute Authority/Absolute Obedience at work

Then of course, it happened to me. It was ugly and brutal. I had been fingered though and that was that. In going through the unyielding,relentless attack on my character...my wife and Children suffered far more than I did. They still bear the scars.

I tumbled down a long and winding stairway of pride and damnation...only to land on my feet a repentant sinner for my actions in this despicable display of Pastoral Abuse... having seen the error in my way and the devastation wrought by years of Executive Privilege gone unchecked.

These days, though I have repented of my sin and have been forgiven, with regard to the matters above, I am still immensely saddened at the broken hearts and dreams of the wonderful Christian Men and Women, who's lives I played such horrible role in. Might they forgive me. Those I've contacted have...those I can't contact...well at some point in Eternity we'll hug again.

However...Jesus reigns Supreme.

[mary]

Dear mrjohnm,

How blessed you are!

What a beautiful picture of how the Lord turns our sins, our iniquities, and everything that turns us away from Him into just what He uses to turn us to Him! He could have left you there - but He didn't. He gave you the gift of being able to see things from His perspective and the ever-so-precious gift of repentance. Wow. All of heaven rejoices to see one sinner repent, and so must all of us rejoice. I lived a virtual lifetime in unrepentant sin; He could have left me doing the kind of "stuff" I was doing - but He didn't leave me there, either.

Even more proof of the truth of the Gospel: I am a great sinner, and Christ is a great savior! How blessed we all are who have been down that road! We repent and believe in Him, our only precious Redeemer, and look at the riches that He has for us! Assurance while we tough things out here on earth, and then -- eternal life with Him!

God bless you, mrjohnm, and, as I haven't formally welcomed you here yet: WELCOME!!!

Yours in our Eternal Father, our Prophet, Priest, King and Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,

mary

[FreeinJesus]

[QUOTE=mrjohnm;57995]

.....How about the years I spent shunning people, good Godly people. Men, women, old and young alike....Why did they lose there Ministries...they didn't absolutely agree with a point or two the Pastor may have preached recently.....they simply questioned it,

..... and if my Pastor said these people were potential nay sayers or back-biters...out they went. I participated in it. ......It only took a while, as there "friends" turned from them and left them hanging...before they left the place they'd come to know as Sanctuary (there local Church), and the Pastor could let go a sigh of relief...safe once again (a little insecure in his Ministry...wouldn't you say).

..... The Pastor would not consider any form of sabbatical, saying that the false love of those in Leadership, toward he and his wife "disgusted him" and that the church would be better off if he stayed at the helm (Absolute Control). ..... .....Their hope was to see God do a magnificent work in the lives of these two. They were put on the "backbiters List"...and taken care of. I participated once again. Pretty soon, they too were gone...and the Pastor could one more time let that sigh of relief, as he was again safe. Once more, the Mose's Principal of Absolute Authority/Absolute Obedience at work

Then of course, it happened to me. It was ugly and brutal. I had been fingered though and that was that. In going through the unyielding,relentless attack on my character...my wife and Children suffered....

...having seen the error in my way and the devastation wrought by years of Executive Privilege gone unchecked.
QUOTE]

Dear mrjohnm, Welcome!

Thank you for sharing & I hope you find healing...I believe you will, it will take time though.

What you have written described a lot of what existed in my xabusive cult-church. My xpastor had some health issues, stomach troubles, has to eat special diets & to me his color never looked good. Then a core person would insinuate how pastors ills were probably from the "flock":(:confused It was as if the congregation were being blamed by this core person for the pastors health problems?? Actually, when he would take a trip, he would talk about what a great time he & his wife would have then how the stomach trouble would begin once he got back..(he would say this from his pulpit, imagine how that made me feel...wow, you feel miserable to be back, with us?) :( .....to his job?? to the flock??.:confused::( That wasn't a good thing to hear from the pulpit.:(

I had suggested to xabusive pastor, "maybe you should take a sabbatical?"..(I remember thinking that if coming back made him feel so rotten, maybe he needed more time away? made sense to me) well,...pastor just looked at me. But I knew, that he'd never be away like that because people might actually begin thinking for themselves in his absence. His weekly indoctrination sessions (ie/sermons) & "bible-study" which was never a round table study (it was a mini-sermon) 1-man show in my xabusive bible-cult.... Anyhow, It was an unwritten rule that attendance was mandatory & you should do your upmost to be seated in that group on a Sunday morning. (he would keep track of church attendance & believe me, you were made to feel guilty if you missed a Sunday without a good reason)

My point is mrjohnm, you hit the nail on the head, CONTROL. He couldn't back off or take a break because it could very well be that if he did, he would begin to lose his grip on the flock. That's my opinion. I've seen & heard that "sigh" you mentioned. Those who were questioning or not getting w/ his program, when gotten rid of (excommunicated ) didn't have to be dealt with anymore....the "sigh" of relief...:(

Actually for us, I really believe that he was purposely doing things to MAKE us want to leave...of course then we were excommunicated because we chose to leave. But, I do believe that he couldn't wait to get us out...he would say "well, I want people in this church to be behind this ministry 100%..." meaning since we had "struggles" w/ the teachings, etc. that we weren't 100% behind him. When I decided to "try harder to make it work" he almost had a look of disappointed that we didn't just tell him we wanted out. (get the troublemakers out asap) He still had to deal w/ us rebellious, murmuring, lack of faith brethren. After all that's been said & done, I'm so glad we are out, not much "grace" for a "sovereign grace" church. :(:confused: Oh well, we have our freedom in Christ. Keep your chin up & I'm so glad that God has opened your eyes! Though it's painful I believe over time you will come to see that God has some good purpose for all of what you went through.....I believe that for all of us, but sometimes it's hard because I think "was this really neccessary?":confused::( Hang in there bro!
God bless You!!!! FreeinJesus

[hornblower]

I worked for a high-profile ministry and the things that went on behind the scenes! Those who were placed in key positions of power protected and promoted The Big Guy at all costs and made sure his hands and reputation were kept clean from the dirty work they did on his behalf. None of the lower staff drones were allowed contact with him lest they let slip any tidbits of troubled conscience that might blow the lid off his fantasy. That way if ever publicly or privately confronted he could deny all knowledge of the unethical and ungodly manipulations done for him. The world was told it was all for the glory of Jesus but in reality it was all for the glory of The Big Guy. Many of us stayed thinking we could influence change from the inside but left when we found we could not. It is very difficult to prove to those outside what was common knowledge to those inside. It takes staff members in key positions of power willing to out things. Look how many years it took for some of those key people in ORU, etc., to get fed up enough to talk. I hope and pray some in the ministry I was part of will one day do the same.

In the meantime I struggle with fear, distrust, isolation and doubt. My experiences have left me so wounded I wonder if I will ever recover. It has been years since I left my position, but I am still unable to step foot in a church. I can't; I know too much. I've seen the other side of ministry, the dark side that exists behind the sermons, the worship teams, and the platform personalities. I remain a Christian, but a haunted one.

I know there are others out there who, like me, are former staff members of ministries, megachurches, movements, etc. Please share your stories. Perhaps we can finally begin to heal a little.


My dear friend I dont consider what you or the 'big guy' as doing a "ministry". You were duped as we all were. May be just maybe your real ministry is just what you have now done..............written this for all to see? For me its very healing.

Please heal yourself in this time here.........time on this earth...........by allowing yourself to be human. Doesn't the word say Physician heal thyself!
It is a machine as any organization eventually becomes one and that can never be who Christ is. This we have learned and we should be happy about it.

I was so shocked that Jesus started leading me to go visit ministers of churches..........I always thought I was going there to see therm for them to help 'me', flawed as I had become, not fitting in to the machines structures and cogs..persecuted every time I opened my mouth which happened seemingly whether I wanted it too or not.......

What I found instead was that these poor men were not in their real calling because they like most of us were still following the worlds way of doing things.........
They often could not understand what was wrong with them.

They would confide in me that they had to do what they were doing to feed their family but in trying to follow God they were being persecuted by the congregations.
Misery miseriiiiiiiiiii!

One young minister that took over our church was so obviously out of his element my first inclination after talking to him for five seconds was to never want to step foot in that place of being near him again: his mouth was foul to say the least.

The former pastor of this particular church the only 'real' church I think I ever attended at all.....had built up a ministry of healing for others, the church didn't grow and he didn't necessarily want it too........lol.....not a popular view is it?

He and his associate saw themselves as instruments of healing for Gods people, peacemakers and lovers of others, learners not teachers. Often someone could literally stand up in the service and bring forth a grievance, something that most ministers would run from but not that one pastor he welcomed criticism knowing he was only a man, not God Himself. He listened and then always asked for forgiveness from the offended knowing that God forgives us all for being what we cannot help but be............human!

Not easy shoes to follow in.
Just human shoes.

So anyway the young man who the bishop brought in didn't know what to do with this place of healing since he had just come out of school and thought the only thing God wanted was lost souls and lots of them to pay the bills, after all he needed to feed his family.

All the way home from meeting him for the first time I was determined to leave this church after our 'human' pastor left it.......it was Methodist and you know that machine casts pastors out any time they want too. So without a second thought they got rid of ours. People were hurting pretty badly but not badly enough to leave the stupid Methodist church.

God wouldnt let me get away with leaving, not that time. He wanted me to pray for him, this young pastor, to my dismay! When I did to make a long story short I began to love him and his family.

One day as I was praying I had a vision of this young man playing a piano in a piano bar and singing to his hearts content.......shocked, I looked up to God as if...........?.........and said what am I supposed to think about this?????????

God told me to share the vision with this young pastor.
Eventually after many arguments with myself thinking I had lost my mind......I did go and tell him what I saw thinking he would ban me from the church.

He didn't, he said, "yes that was my dream, and yes its still inside of me but.........'I have to feed my family'!"

There is a reason for the machine.............
I have no answers for 'feeding ones family' its a good thing to want to do I would think..............God alone has the answers...........all I know is that our church as we knew it, was gone and so was that young man..........bless his heart. So were all of us.........

The deal is...... God doesnt make worldly machines in fact he doesnt make any machines.

It is a good thing that you have done this, this repentance if you would like to call it that. AND..that's the point. You are a good and faithful servant my friend and I appreciate you. Good for you and for us we are growing up into the head and we are not going to be the tail much longer that's what I say!