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freedom seeker
02-05-2008, 09:53 AM
I haven't been here for awhile. I read this, it touched me, gave me great healing, and I thought I would pass it along. I am only posting part of it. If you want it all you will have to visit the link.

Joseph, the favored son of Jacob in the Old Testament, endured many things at the hand of his brothers. His brothers were jealous because their father favored him and gave him a special coat of many colors. Few of us have known the level of betrayal and suffering that he knew as a result. Worse yet, Joseph had dreams that seemed to suggest that God also favored him. The brothers grew to hate this "dreamer" who dared to believe that God had a special plan for his life.

One day, Jacob sent Joseph out in the field to check on his brothers. "Here comes that dreamer" they said among themselves as they saw Joseph approaching from a distance. They plotted to kill him but instead ripped off the special gift of his father's favor, the coat of many colors, threw him into a dry cistern and later sold him to some Ishmaelite traders passing by on their way from Gilead to Egypt. In Egypt, these slavers sold Joseph to Potiphar, one of Pharaoh's officials. Joseph served Potiphar, as a faithful steward gaining his trust and esteem for seven years before everything fell apart again. Potiphar's wife tried to seduce him and when failing to do so, she falsely accused Joseph of molesting her. Potiphar threw Joseph into Pharaoh's prison where he suffered for another seven years.

All these injustices happened because of the envy and hatred of his brothers, right? If anyone had a reason to be bitter, Joseph did. When he later interpreted the dreams of his fellow prisoners, Pharaoh's baker and wine taster, he ask one of them to be sure to let the king know that he had been unfairly imprisoned and enslaved. Finally, after two more years of bondage, Joseph was called before Pharaoh to interpret a dream that warned of a great famine throughout the land. This time he mentioned not a word about his injustices, but pointed the king to God alone. It would seem that the last vestiges of resentment and blame were finally gone. Because of God's favor on his life, Joseph was exalted and made second in command in all of Egypt. He was put in charge of storing food for the coming famine.

As God would have it, Joseph's father and brothers heard of the stores of food down in Egypt in the midst of the famine and Jacob sent the brothers down into Egypt to bring back food. They eventually came in and stood before Joseph, not knowing who he was for he was dressed like a king. It had been over twenty-one years since they had been face to face. A lot had changed. Wouldn't a little poetic justice be in order here? This was Joseph's chance to "set things right" and take his revenge. What would you do? Would Joseph throw them into prison to give them a taste of what he had suffered at their hands? Then would he "throw away the key"? How often we have heard men who have been wronged say, "I will forgive, but I will NEVER forget!"

Joseph's words, spoken to his brothers after he finally revealed his identity to them, show the deep and precious work God did in his heart through years of suffering. He finally came to see beyond the ill-intentions of his brothers and see God's greater purpose in it all. When the eyes of the brothers were finally opened to see who this great leader of Egypt really was they panicked. To their surprise and relief Joseph said to them, "You meant evil against me but God meant it for good..." (Gen 50:20-21 WEB).

What wonderful words are these, proceeding from a broken heart, which suggest that all life's struggles and sufferings work together toward some greater good, for those who love the Lord and are called according to His purpose (See Romans 8:28)? Could it be that even the greatest sorrows of our lives are messengers of good? This was the lesson that Joseph learned through his many wounds. Though men mean to do evil to us, God means it for good. He uses anything that happens to us to bring us into the perfection of His Son, Jesus Christ (See Hebrews 12:6).

Today's Josephs

Today, many are coming out of abusive church systems. Those, calling themselves "brothers," sold them into religious captivity. Those who loudly claimed to love them unconditionally now shun them and speak ill of them behind their backs. As a result, many of these wounded ones are openly hurt and bitter. They have been betrayed and their coat of many colors ripped from their backs and soaked in blood. Sadly, the gift that they dared to manifest among jealous brethren is now silent and they seek to avoid further wounding by focusing on the evil intentions of their brothers, often searching the scriptures for ammunition against their foes. "I'm never going to be hurt like that again. . . You meant it for evil. . ."

In the movie, "Patch Adams," there is a scene where Patch has just been put in an insane asylum, having given up on life altogether. One of the patents, an old man, comes up to him and thrusts four fingers inside his focal distance as he looked at the man's face. Then the man shouted, "How many fingers? How many fingers do you see?" Patch stepped back, looked and said, "Four." The man then said, "You are an idiot!" and stormed off. Later, Patch found out that this man was a genius and had voluntarily become interned because he could not stand the world outside. He went into the man's room and asked him what the answer to the riddle really was? The man said, "Three." If you had looked beyond the fingers and focused on my face you would have seen thee fingers, not four. You have to look beyond the obvious manifestation to see the solution to your problem."

The key to forgiving our brothers is locked away from us until we finally come to see that our wounds are the wounds of a dear Friend (Proverbs 27:6). Until we see God's hand in our sufferings, we are destined to wrestle with flesh and blood, pointing the finger at our persecutors and blaming them for the injustice of it all.

In man's distorted, promiscuous view of love there is no room for pain, no place for discipline, and no value in wounds. Therefore, pain is met with resentment and wounding with retaliation. Their can be no lasting healing until we finally stop blaming our brothers and start thanking our Divine Friend, who loves us enough to wound us that he might heal us. Until we come to see that "God meant it for good", we can never forgive our brothers and know the goodness of His wounds.

http://www.awildernessvoice.com/GodMeantGood.html

mary
02-05-2008, 11:29 AM
Amen, Freedom Seeker! Nice to see you here again! :)

This is something I've been trying to tell people around here lately... With God, there is literally "no pain, no gain." If we don't identify with Jesus here in His sufferings (no! - we don't want John 16:1-2 to apply to us! :eek: ) then we won't know the joy that can be ours in His company in heaven.

Even physical afflictions... No, I don't like the fact that I have a few, but that's my carnal self speaking. I don't like it that I had cancer years ago and am dealing with another one now - but would I be without it if it's His will that I go through it? Absolutely not!!!!! It's for my earthly and eternal good; it's His will and it's perfect. If He provides a means of cure, sure, I'll take it, but so far, He hasn't.

Wounds of friends... Psalm 41 addresses that. We'll all be wounded by friends and family. Matthew 10... As to afflictions, at present, I know three people around my age who are terminally ill; none has been given more than a couple of months to live. All have large families and wonderful ministries. All will be deeply and sorely missed. I have prayed lately and fervently for the Lord to spare all three for the sake of their families, etc. and to take me instead, for I don't have a large or caring family or even "a" ministry. I don't want all of these vast numbers of others to have "sorrow upon sorrow." (Philippians 2:27.) Often though, we don't get what we pray for; the Lord answers prayers - and He always does answer them - in His will, not ours.

To Him be the glory, and may His will always be done!

mary

mizsandy
02-05-2008, 12:23 PM
Let the church say amen and amen!!!! I really feel that is what God had me going through trials. At first i didn't recognize it,but praise God He finally got my attention. Jesus said that we will have trial and tribulatons,but take courage, He has already overcome the world!!!! That's enough to make you shout!!!!:D:)

Jeanie aka mizsandy

PatriciaM
02-06-2008, 12:11 PM
Mary,

Your caring family is right here! You better believe we want you to stick around!

Jerry
02-06-2008, 12:33 PM
I find that I hurt most when refusing to bend.....Like the tree and the blade of grass in a tornado.The tree refuses to bend in the chaos and is lost to the storm.The blade of grass bends in the storm and remains ;)

mary
02-06-2008, 03:41 PM
Mary,

Your caring family is right here! You better believe we want you to stick around!

Thanks, PatriciaM!!!! For a long, long time, I've had the sense that I do have "family" here! :) :) :) :) I sure didn't mean to underestimate or understate the sheer power of caring that there is here - for it is quite considerable! Thank you so very much, especially as a newer forum participant, for reminding me of that!!!! You're "family" to me, too!

Jerry, you're right: one has to bend. I "bent" today: you remember my little job, the one I just got in December, for 12 hours a week? This afternoon, I offered my resignation - and the boss accepted it. Why? Because one of the above-mentioned, terminally ill people that I know is the office manager there, and she couldn't stand the fact that the boss had hired an experienced paralegal. She's been treating me like absolute filth. He said, "I need to take the path of least resistance. I want to tell you, though, that I will write a reference letter for you of the highest order. Your skills are top-notch." Whatever. :cool: I told him I'd prefer to stay, but he said that others in the office were observing the demeaning way she was treating me and it was getting on everyone's nerves. I told him I'd take "the higher ground" and defer to the person who's more ill than I am. I've been praying for the Lord to preserve her life (in Aug. of last year, she was given 2 to 4 months - but she's still here), and He has. Sometimes, you DO get what you pray for... :eek: :( He also said, "Well, you know, things can change..." No: I think I'm done with this office for good.

I think, though, that the Lord would have me continue to pray for her. So I will. She might have had me run out of there, but she can't stop me from praying for her.

In the love of our Lord Jesus Christ to all,

mary

PatriciaM
02-06-2008, 06:07 PM
Good for you, mary, for taking the higher road. May God bless you richly for your faithfulness to His word and to Him!

Jerry
02-07-2008, 11:51 AM
I told him I'd take "the higher ground" and defer to the person who's more ill than I am. I've been praying for the Lord to preserve her life (in Aug. of last year, she was given 2 to 4 months - but she's still here), and He has. Sometimes, you DO get what you pray for... :eek: :( He also said, "Well, you know, things can change..." No: I think I'm done with this office for good.

I think, though, that the Lord would have me continue to pray for her. So I will. She might have had me run out of there, but she can't stop me from praying for her.

In the love of our Lord Jesus Christ to all,

mary

Dear Mary,,,
It is sure sad when we see someone who doesn't know how to love.Does he really think that allowing her to run you off and treating you abusively is "Loving" her ????? What of her judgment then ???? We all will be judged by our works .........If he really loved her,you would be staying on and she would be told to knock off the bull---- ......Sometimes love is a fuzzy little baby duck,,,,,,,and sometimes it's a ruler across the knuckles ;) but either way, love should come with compassion not pity.You keep praying for her Mary,,,,,and I'll pray that the boss gets some wisdom into that thick scull of his :D

Love Jerry

mary
02-07-2008, 03:28 PM
Dear Mary,,,
It is sure sad when we see someone who doesn't know how to love.Does he really think that allowing her to run you off and treating you abusively is "Loving" her ????? What of her judgment then ???? We all will be judged by our works .........If he really loved her,you would be staying on and she would be told to knock off the bull---- ......Sometimes love is a fuzzy little baby duck,,,,,,,and sometimes it's a ruler across the knuckles ;) but either way, love should come with compassion not pity.You keep praying for her Mary,,,,,and I'll pray that the boss gets some wisdom into that thick scull of his :D

Love Jerry

Dear Jerry,

Thanks... Yeah, the boss isn't doing her any favors, is he? She's about to come face-to-face with the Lord and... She ain't lookin' too good right now... :eek: Well, tomorrow is my last day there; it's the last day that both of them get to kick me around.

There is a truism that's been forgotten in our churches, and forgotten by most people in general: You can't hate someone you're praying for. That's what we learn from our Master, who said, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." We forget that love is not "feeling," for we can't will our feelings (but we can pray about them) - it's "action" instead. Praying for someone we could naturally hate is action, and it can only be inspired by the Holy Spirit.

R. and I went to a Biblical evangelism conference in Grand Rapids last Saturday. The speaker was great; he's on the faculty of a local seminary. One thing he talked a lot about was "enemy evangelism," and he asked the 150+ or so who were in attendance, including many ministers and seminary students, "How many of you have ever prayed for the salvation of Osama bin Laden?" Not one hand went up. I thought that was an interesting question, but thus far, I have not been moved so to pray...

I prayed for "pastor" and his family, even after I was thrown out, but now I don't do it because I figure, well, he's history. There are some people, I think, whom we can put on the back shelf of our prayer cabinet because it doesn't do us any good to bring them to mind by praying for them. Let someone else pray for them for awhile.

I can't hate this office manager, even though she's seen to it that I had to leave a job where, frankly, I absolutely LOVED the work I was doing. And I mean I loved it!!! It made use of most of the talents that the Lord gave me, but for some reason, He took it away from me. Whatever. The talents really belong to Him, and that's how I have to look at it.

In the end, my boss is going to lose. Big-time. Won't be my loss, though.

Once again, Jerry, thanks, and love in our Lord Jesus Christ to you...

mary

Jerry
02-12-2008, 12:57 PM
R. and I went to a Biblical evangelism conference in Grand Rapids last Saturday. The speaker was great; he's on the faculty of a local seminary. One thing he talked a lot about was "enemy evangelism," and he asked the 150+ or so who were in attendance, including many ministers and seminary students, "How many of you have ever prayed for the salvation of Osama bin Laden?" Not one hand went up. I thought that was an interesting question, but thus far, I have not been moved so to pray...



Dear Mary,,,
There is a passage in Isaiah (I Believe) just don't want to get out the "Strong's" right now :o Anyway,,,,,,The passage states (referring to Kenites,for the deeper student) that we are NOT to pray for them,,,their rock is not "Our Rock" nor are we even to wish them "Gods Speed"....I think "Enemy Evangelism" is dangerous.I don't trust any concept that asks me to ignore my own discernment ;)
Love Jerry

psalm55
02-12-2008, 02:31 PM
I am thankful for your post about the passage in Isaiah. I'll have to look it up in a bit. I have not been able to pray for the folks in my past for some time now except to pray they would be convicted of their sin and repent before an Almighty God. Are they altogether bad people? Not all of them.

May I ask when it is right or acceptable for a husband to hide from his wife, and cheat on her in a public way with a member of the pastors family?

I keep getting the feeling that this is acceptable behavior in our churches today.

It has been very difficult to discern what each persons role was in the situation I am in. I have much of it put together but I still have to confess that I cannot judge their motives. I can only say that I have gone to those who have willfully hurt me and spoken to them about it and for the most part there has never been what Jeff Van Vonderen suggests for a healthy family. The person you go to acknowledges they hurt you though it may or may not have been intentional, they empathize and apologize for the pain they caused.

Anyway, enemy evangelism, again I'd have to say it starts with them coming to repentance. Perhaps other they have not yet hurt can witness in other ways but the New Testament calls for us not to throw our pearls before swine.

mary
02-12-2008, 07:00 PM
Well, I found this: http://www.gatewaycathedral.org/cms/page.aspx?pageid=335, as to praying for our enemies...

(PatriciaM, please forgive me for failing to thank you for your kind words last week! They mean - and meant at the time - a great deal to me!!!! I'm still kind of reeling from the forced resignation...)

First John 5:16 is an interesting passage: we are not to pray for those who commit the sin "which is unto death." That would be the sin that denies the work of the Holy Spirit. But who are we to judge who's committed that? I used to hear it said, "If you're worried that you've committed the unpardonable sin, you haven't." It doesn't rule out praying for anyone else, though.

Those who come to us and try to teach us things other than the doctrine of Christ are not to be bidden Godspeed (2 John 10). If we bid him Godspeed, we partake in his evil doings (v. 11).

Psalm 55, welcome to our forum; I hope we can help you and that we turn out to be good for you, for you're hurting quite a bit, I know. Injuries of a physical and verbal nature were inflicted upon me by a "pastor," his family and my own family. That's my experience, and as a result of it maybe I can help you, and I'll certainly pray for you as it appears you need us to... I'm so sorry you've been this badly hurt!!!

Could it be Isaiah 18-19 that you're referring to, Jerry? Matthew Henry has a commentary piece on those chapters: http://www.studylight.org/com/mhc-com/view.cgi?book=isa&chapter=018.

The man who asked if anyone in the audience had ever prayed for bin Laden's salvation was a European who has lived here in the U.S. for only five months. The vastly American audience of Christians was shocked at his question. Now, several months ago, I was vilified on a European forum (same country as the speaker a week ago Saturday came from) whose other participants simply "assume," despite appalling pictorial evidence to the contrary, that the WTC towers were "imploded" by GWB. When I strenuously objected and argued otherwise, I was ridiculed. Anti-American hatred came pouring out of the woodwork at me. As a descendant of one of the American Revolution's Minutemen, and countless other men who fought in this country's wars (and as the wife of a Vietnam vet), I refuse to countenance those who consider this country a blight upon the earth... But forgive them? That goes beyond patriotism and standing up for America; that's a divine command.

Personal forgiveness is a different thing, though. One who hasn't asked for forgiveness need not be expressly forgiven. My "pastor," after slandering me and having his family participate in the slander, and after other things he did to me, was sent a slander warning letter by my attorney and reminded of Matthew 18. He sent an acknowledgment to the attorney that he had received the letter, but he has never asked for forgiveness and never bowed to his duties as described in Matt. 18, so although I now have a new attitude (thanks only to the grace of God) towards him, no, he doesn't have my explicit forgiveness. There is another situation in my family in which someone literally got away with murder. I've turned that over to the Lord, and I haven't forgiven that person, either. A clergyman said to me, regarding the situation with "pastor," "How do you compare the things you did against God before you were converted? Were they less or more grievous than what that man did to you?" I replied, "More." This clergyman said, "Then work on forgiving him." No: forgiveness of a false pastor is God's work; if He wants me to forgive him, He'll give me the grace to do it. "Pastor" will have to repent, anyway, before God forgives him. (You're absolutely right, Psalm55.) That's none of my business, of course, and I won't be involved in it if it happens.

The Bible does tell us that we will see our desire upon our enemies, however. (Psalm 92:11, among other verses.) I can wait for that.

I broke fellowship with a "friend" who made it a condition of our continued relationship that I call "pastor" and "make up" with him. No: the circumstances of what transpired between us would have violated something much more important than any friendship or pastor-congregant relationship, and I refused to do it. "Making up" with someone who still maintains that everything he did that hurt a person was right would compound the wrong and only make it worse. It would also be an offense to the Lord, which is really the beginning and the end of that argument in the first place.

This has gone on much longer than a usual "mary" post; sorry! :o Psalm55, I look forward to talking with you much more in the future, Lord willing.

We have some very precious new folks here lately; reminds me of the old Girl Scout song, "Make new friends and keep the old; one is silver and the other's gold!" :) :) :) :)

Love in Christ to all,

mary