triggers and abuse and "panic" [Archive] - Christian Recovery Forums

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FoxInSox

01-16-2008, 05:24 PM

Willow

01-16-2008, 05:27 PM

I can COMPLETELY relate. I don't know if you saw my post in the no crosstalk forum on step 3 or not... but I had a severe psychological reaction to it. I pushed through anyway... realizing that it was something that I might benefit from. Not that I would give anyone control over me... but just the exposure to the trigger might desensitize me to it. That was my hope anyway. :eek:

Some folks thought I might be having a reaction because I didn't want to do step 4 and 5, but I knew it was most certainly a reaction the the idea of "submitting my will and life to god" and the bait and switch that had happened in the past when I did that. It went kind of like this... "Pray this prayer with me to turn your life over to God. OK... Now God rules your life and HE wants you to do THIS for ME." Not exactly in those words... the the idea went along those lines for many many years and it had nothing to do with GOD at all.

mary

01-16-2008, 06:02 PM

Can anyone help me understand?

I'm in Step Study (Celebrate Recovery), and its the lesson about Step Three. Rick Warren and John Baker talk about "asking Jesus into your heart."

I watch "Jesus Camp." I listen to parts of an HBO movie about a ministry called "Hard as Nails."

We visit churches in our new town, and something just doesn't feel right.

And, I have this weird psychosomatic response -- BP, respiration, and heart rate go up, anxiety kicks in, anger kicks in.

I assume this is what people reference as "triggering." It's a new experience for me. I usually experience that word as a something that makes me want to act out in my compulsive behaviors.

What I don't understand is WHY. None of these people are going to hurt me, and I don't really get the connection between what's going on in these new experiences, and what happened in youth group. Any thoughts?

FoxInSox, I can relate completely. One hundred percent.

You're going into "fight or flight," or mild to not-so-mild panic. The somatic effects you experience (heart rate, anxiety, etc.) are clear indications of that. Fox, you're going through a little post-traumatic stress syndrome, and that's perfectly normal.

I still go through it myself. It's been over 2 years since my worst SA experiences, but I still get scared in churches and around "church people." I used to have to take fast-dissolving Klonopin just to sit through anything related to church, but I got allergic to it and I've been toughing "church" out without psychotropics lately.

Fox, "this too shall pass." I'm sorry you're getting hit like this and I hope it passes quickly. It's best to try to do it without the anti-anxiety drugs such as I took, because then you have to get off of those someday and that's tough. (I just kicked Xanax a few months ago and that was one hellish experience... :( :eek: )

Anytime you feel like PMing, just do it, okay?

Love in our Lord Jesus Christ,

mary

FoxInSox

01-16-2008, 08:30 PM

Thanks for the responses, y'all.

I guess what I don't understand is *what* I'm responding to. I just don't remembering it being "that bad." I mean, I wasn't part of a cult and the pastor wasn't being physically inappropriate or any of those kinds of horror stories. No one yelled at me, or told me I was going to hell. Hell, even as a good southern baptist, I only made my way down the aisle to the alter/stage one time, although I was dunked twice ;). Objectively, That Church was legalistic and about looking good and "being good" (as opposed to being redeemed). Grace was an afterthought.

It's hard for me to experience this as "spiritual abuse." I know it is because I can step away from myself and see how wounded I was when I went into that place, and how much they ignored me and how many burdens they put on me. They never taught that our salvation was at stake, but they did imply that our positioning with God was varible, that there was some kind of continuum of acceptance and approval from God.

But, for others in that same environment, it was not abusive. They are surprised to hear my recounting of my experiences. And I know that some kinds of abuse are like that. I get that.

But...my life wasn't in danger. I wasn't even afraid of going to hell. So, what was the trauma?

Thanks.
~M

amandaF

01-17-2008, 02:31 AM

I'm sorry you've been triggered!
Sometimes it's hard to put a finger on the exact reason for the trigger and it's frustrating while you work through it to an understanding!!
But at the end of the day..it really IS worth it!

Jerry

01-17-2008, 07:48 AM

What I don't understand is WHY. None of these people are going to hurt me, and I don't really get the connection between what's going on in these new experiences, and what happened in youth group. Any thoughts?

My thoughts ?????,,,,,,,If your trying to work through being spiritually abused,,,,Rick Warren and John Baker are the last guys I would buddy up with. I would rather remove my own appendix with a warm spoon .......

Love Jerry

Reg

01-17-2008, 08:18 AM

Can anyone help me understand?

I'm in Step Study (Celebrate Recovery), and its the lesson about Step Three. Rick Warren and John Baker talk about "asking Jesus into your heart."

snip

And, I have this weird psychosomatic response -- BP, respiration, and heart rate go up, anxiety kicks in, anger kicks in.

I assume this is what people reference as "triggering." It's a new experience for me. I usually experience that word as a something that makes me want to act out in my compulsive behaviors.

What I don't understand is WHY. None of these people are going to hurt me, and I don't really get the connection between what's going on in these new experiences, and what happened in youth group. Any thoughts?
Hi FoxInSox,

I understand your dilemna. I was part of the leadership in our church that started CR. I also had difficulty with some of it. I was triggered and didn't really understand why at the time. To a large extent, I think it was because of the controlling nature of the person who led the program. It needed to be modified for the spiritually abused. Hope this will help you understand why you are having problems with CR.

Here's a modified version of Step 3 that ex-shep gave us awhile back. The CR 12 steps were modified by Jim Baker from AA for Christians. Likewise, they need to go further for the spiritually abused. This is what ex-shep did in that regard.

S.A.R.A = Spiritual Abused in Recovery Anonymous.

GOOD ORDERLY DIRECTION G.O.D.

AA Step 3: Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God, aswe understood God.

CR Step 3: Consciously choose to commit all my life and will to Christ's care and control.

This is tricky business. One member stated, “I still do not know what it means to submit to God”.
The idea of turning over our wills to any higher power after what we had been through was
terrifying. We should have turned it over to the Highest Power. Some would have put down the
book and come back to the chapter when they were up to it. Again we understood all too well. If a
member were to skip a meeting where the topic of the third step came up, we would not be
offended. We knew some would not be up to the topic. It is emotionally too much for them. We
were reminded that the only requirement for S.A.R.A membership was a conscientious desire to
move beyond the trauma of our group experiences and respect the anonymity of those attending.
Everything had to be done to insure the emotional safety of our meetings. The meeting guidelines
strictly forbade proselytizing and trying for force beliefs or philosophies on the group. It is never
tolerated.

Some of us, because of former group involvements, had developed a severe “allergic reaction” to
anything sounding even the least remotely religious. One member is still violently uncomfortable
when he hears traditional holiday music in a department store. Some have violent and angry
emotional responses to anything sounding the smallest bit evangelical. Many still have painful
memories and fear repeating the abusive patterns they left. Some felt triggered with flashbacks of
horrific memories. Some would “float” or disassociate and loose emotional contact of their
surroundings. We learned to respect each member’s recovery and respect the personal space and
boundaries of those suffering.

Saying that “God is the answer” felt like a lethal overdose for some. Some protested, “Oh yeah?
That’s what our group taught us and you want us to go back to THAT?” We had to remember
that it was the promise of easy answers got us into our groups. In recovery, there are no easy fixes.
We did not like the prospect. Having no other alternative, we worked at getting better one day at a
time.

As far as the third step was concerned we could come as we are. We were advised to “take what
we like and leave the rest”. If overwhelmed, we were gently reminded, “Easy does it”. We were
under no obligation to have all the answers about our higher power.

There was an apocryphal anecdote that fifty percent of those who left abusive groups would, in
time find a healthy religious fellowship; the other fifty percent would not. Some were
shell-shocked. Taking a non-religious and rationalistic way of looking at things was the healthiest
means of recovery. Some members over time became atheists and agnostics. They made
convincing reasons why they arrived at such a conclusion. Some members found healthy religious
institutions and informal fellowships. Others found that were some healthy and beneficial aspects
of their former group involvement and were able to integrate it towards a healthy system of beliefs.
All shared valuable pearls of wisdom from their experience, strength and hope in recovering from
their former groups. We were glad they were all present at our meetings.

For those who had difficulty with God as a higher power, our friends in other twelve step groups
developed the acronym of G.O.D. to mean “good orderly direction”. Certainly anyone in
recovery had that as an ultimate and ongoing goal.

Many used the group as their higher power. It was indeed a miracle that there was a fellowship of
men and women who shared our plight and understood our afflictions. We were not alone.

Another point of reference was realizing what was not God’s will. It is not God’s will to
physically, verbally and emotionally abuses others and us. It is not God’s will to wallow in shame
and worthlessness. It is not God’s will to place or be placed in any form of enslavement or
coercion. Trying to find the opposites and working towards them could be a good starting point.

Many an embittered person would ask how could a loving God let cults and spiritually abusive
groups exist and why “was I the one chosen”. It is a good question. Unfortunately we did not
know. It was impossible to struggle with that one. The preamble of Al-Anon mentions “we became
irritable because we tried to force solutions” Sometimes we did some introspective. Other times we
had to be content with the unanswered questions. We offered our support and could empathize
with the one struggling with such existential questions. Many of us had been there ourselves, so we
could relate.

Some would ask, “Is healthy spiritual fellowship possible”. It was also a good question. Obviously
there were millions who had healthy walks with their God and went to their house of worship.
There often was a jaded feeling of we could not without drifting off into trance patterns, religious
grandiosity or the other psychologically destructive trappings of our former groups. They could do
it. “Why not us?” we protested. Again it was a good question and one for which we did not have a
ready answer. We knew that is how cults got started. For some it was like a hot iron too hot to
touch. Each person’s spiritual journey, if one chose to have one, was different. Each would have
to go their own way. The collective experience of seasoned veterans in the fellowship was it would
come with time. At this point what we needed most was a patient spirit.

To take that even further, this is a thread I started in that regard.....

16 Steps vs 12 Steps
http://www.christianrecovery.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5998&highlight=steps

FoxInSox

01-18-2008, 10:53 AM

"If your trying to work through being spiritually abused,,,,Rick Warren and John Baker are the last guys I would buddy up with. "

I'm not buddying up to Rick Warren and John Baker...

I AM buddying up with my sponsor, my Step Study leader, another friend with spiritual abuse in her past, several good recovery-oriented friends, ...

In general, a community of people who LIVE OUT grace, love Jesus, love me, let me love them back, and point me towards Jesus - not the church, not the checklist...

Jerry

01-18-2008, 01:21 PM

In general, a community of people who LIVE OUT grace, love Jesus, love me, let me love them back, and point me towards Jesus - not the church, not the checklist...

Dear Fox,,,
Rick Warren is one of my Triggars.....I apologize,my post to you was out of line ;)

Love Jerry

FoxInSox

01-18-2008, 01:38 PM

Reg

01-19-2008, 09:45 AM

Thanks Jerry. I'm not a personal fan of RW, but I'm letting my bitterness and anger rise up so I can deal with it.

I'm still surprised that I attend CR because it is a Christian-thing. The people there, though, they just do life differently...I'm not sure if it's all CR or just my fellowship. I've found friends there that can really "get" my issues, who love me despite my compulsive behaviors, who love me when I want to ACT on those behaviors and need some help so I don't, they walk beside me as I struggle for sanity.

In short, I guess I've found some real friends who really "get it". They just don't seem church folksy to me, but just people who love Jesus and love me.

~M
That's it exactly FoxInSox. The people. At CR for the most part, the people there are authentic. They are all struggling with varous hurts, habits and hangups. They are not the types that point fingers and judge you. They accept things the way they are and allow you to share your reality.Their issues are discussed in a very open and candid way. In the times of sharing, they really listen. You can be heard and connect in a personal way to people who are working on their recovery. If the right leaders are in place it can be a place of healing despite the specific triggers we can have.

As I said in my previous post, the 16 Steps take it farther and instead of admitting you are powerless, empower you.
http://www.charlottekasl.com/16steps.html

I have signed on to their bulletin board and want to pursue the idea of using them for the Spiritually Abused.
http://www.mixedbag.us/16steps.htm

PatriciaM

01-25-2008, 05:57 PM

Fox,

I have a feeling what is triggering you is the word "control". That is what you escaped. Thankfully, Jesus doesn't control us like people do!

FoxInSox

01-25-2008, 10:17 PM

patricia,

you are right on. if it feels "emotionally manipulative," i feel afraid.

PatriciaM

01-26-2008, 04:29 PM

I feel the same way, FoxinSox, so you are not alone. I chafe at being controlled by anyone or anything, because the control of people and even circumstances, by definition, is a form of abuse.

I saw a poster at my old college: "Jesus came to take away your sins, not your brain". That has always spoken to me...

hornblower

01-28-2008, 09:30 AM

Hi Fox in Sox.........In my book the Healing of the Shame that binds us, the way to get over our toxic shame is to embrace it........Shocking isnt it?

Its very hard for me to understand but I am living proof of this very thing.

In order to get well so to speak from the things in our past that have harmed us we must face them only in a healthier way.

Toxic shame which is what has happened to us in these overbearing critical shame based situations, families and churches, groups, individuals, schools, whatever, these unhealthy situations set us up to hide.

Isolation sets us up to be unhealthy in our relationships. We need feedback about ourselves and if we shy away from seeing other people and going back into situations as I am now doing we are hiding in our shame and we will never get healthy.

Make sure your relationships are loving accepting free and above all truthful in a kinder way.........this to me is the key to getting back to living without all of the controlling that we were in.

What we need is to learn to protect ourselves internally. Other people cannot nor will ever be all we need.........Jesus alone was the only perfect person that has ever lived.........and He didnt come to condemn us for being ourselves, He came to save us.

I am finding that I am so often misunderstood.........why is that? It can be maybe the way I express myself. Often I think I am very bad at learning to listen. Listening is an art. Listening and not judging is even more of an art.

I am so afraid of not being loved that honestly its become much easier for me to end up always being alone. Then the loneliness takes its toll because I think Ill go insane if it keeps on. Isolation doesnt work if it did Id be the winner right now and Im not.

The only way to end this cycle is in relationships with other people and trusting God with who I am and with who they are too. Ive got to be able to look honestly at myself and try to become more honest and truthful with my speech in talking to others.

In the book it says in order to find your life you have to be able to loose it......we all have been there in this forum, we have lost our lives and now we are about the hard work of finding it again. Its not easy thats for sure.

Heres what I am trying to do. First I go to meet with hopefully 'safe' people. People that are accepting of me. Where I can express myself. This was not my situation when I was in an unhealthy family or in an unhealthy church where some of the people there hurt me and made me feel ashamed for just being me..........

It doesnt always work. What I am now encountering so many times is huge anger and often consequently a lot of fear. Even tiny things people say to me set me off. I get nervous and I talk too much, share too much and then powey here comes the shame........then I want to run and hide and never get out the door.

At times this shameful blaming of myself becomes so bad I wont even talk to God. This happens often and is really the crux of my biggest problem because then I dont ever get loved. Love is the hope and the cure for what ailes me for sure.

Self talk can help, this is what I am learning..........Jesus came to set us free......I am free to be myself, but .....I would do well to be learning from Jesus because He is a great teacher. What does Jesus teach? He teaches me truth and truth sets me free to be myself which is not condemning of me and doesnt walk in shame any longer.

Learning to love myself in a healthy realistic way is freeing and helps me to learn to love others in the same freeing way that God is loving me.

Control often comes in a teaching of some kind. Teaching often triggers me. Why is it that it is teaching that does it to me? I think it is because teaching or learning itself, or the accumulation of knowledge 'puffs up'. The word says that. Knowledge puffs us up...........but.........LOVE edifies.

So much of the body of Christ has this wrong........they often think that knowledge will make them more like Christ..........truth is.........Love makes us more like Christ.

Jesus' life was half and half........some teaching........ some doing. The doing of what He taught is what sets us free..........His cross sets us free. How much of that do you see going on in the church? Most of what we see is teaching..............
Let us all beware of the tell tale signs.

Nevertheless in order to get better ourselves we have to get back out there somehow and learn to love ourselves again and each other.

noprivacy

02-04-2008, 07:20 PM

you are right on. if it feels "emotionally manipulative," i feel afraid.

Yes, Yes and Yes. I fought my feelings for so long trying so hard to believe people and that everyone was serving God. I tried to over look the hurtful comments and jokes made at my expense, I tried to over look what felt like lies, trying to justify and rationalize why other people had to do what they were doing. Obviously, it was because I was wrong. Everything was my fault. Well guess what. I didnt' choose the guy who screwed my life over. I didn't choose for him to go to others and complain about me or for him to accept sex from a teenager. I didnt' choose the lies people told me.

Everything that is said to me at this point is all about them. All about them being the one to 'save' me. I asked one person not to be involved in the mind game everyone was playing. One person and even that was too much. Everything that comes my way feels manipulative.

I'll make the decisions I need to make for my life. I do not need to be coerced, talked into, led to believe something that is not true. I'm sick of the well timed compliments, the well timed talks about how i need to forgive...
Like many of you have written, my emotions go from sad to angry to shock to grief and back again.

So, whole heartedly, if it feels like emotional manipulation, it is!