Jesus Camp Movie

[Reg]

I watched this movie last night. Has anyone else seen it?

I cringed with some of the things I heard the kids and those that led them say. Indoctrination of
any sort with young impressionable minds is going to have huge backlashes when they grow older
and find out for themselves what has happened to them. I’m not against teaching kids right and
wrong. It’s just the methods used were way over the top. Coercive persuasion is used in a peer
pressure group. Teaching kids and rearing them in these areas is primarily the parents job at home
in a private setting.

A lot of what the leaders said was right and they did take a stand against abortion and other moral
issues in society. It’s just the dogmatic way and methods they used that were wrong.

Near the end is with Ted Haggard at New Life Church. Here are some of the things he said:

"I think I know what you did last night."
[audience laughs]

"If you send me a thousand dollars, I won't tell your wife."
[audience and Haggard laughs]

"We've decided the Bible is the word of God. We don't have to have a General Assembly about
what we believe. It's written in the Bible. Alright, so we don't have to debate what we think about
homosexual activity. It's written in the Bible." [pointing and looking into the camera]

"If you use any of this, I'll sue you."

Talk about being hypocritical.(Less than two months after the release of the film, Haggard became
embroiled in a high-profile scandal, involving, among other things, homosexual prostitution, and
methamphetamine possession.)


Jesus Camp
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Camp

Movie Review - Jesus Camp - eFilmCritic
“Where do you draw the line between teaching children solid values and turning them into
too-serious mini-preachers? If the film is any indication, these kids are missing out on the
fun parts of childhood. They're not being allowed to just be kids. Is that really what we
want. (Last paragraph)
http://efilmcritic.com/review.php?movie=14374

[Reg]

This is an excellent evaluation of the movie.

Let Us Reason Ministries
Jesus Camp- the movie
There is a new movie that is being released in the theaters called “Jesus Camp.” Christianity has
enough bad press and certainly does not need more ammunition to be ridiculed. It’’s not wrong to
be persecuted when doing the right thing but if it is not right then it becomes a argument for
unbelief for those who are looking for an excuse.
http://www.letusreason.org/Current90.htm

Some Videos from the movie:
http://www.listal.com/person/becky-fischer

[FoxInSox]

I have seen this movie twice. The first time in the theatre, the second time, last night.

I find it an excellent documentary. Alot of that stuff, minus the charasmatic aspects of tongues and shouting, are the kinds of things that happened when I was a kid.

The first time I saw it, I was just beginning to consider the influence of emotional and/or spiritual abuse in my life. I felt enraged and cried; I also felt embarrassed and annoyed. I also just felt ... sad.

Last night, I watched it with the specific purpose of analysis. If this was the kind of thing I grew up with, what was it that was "not right"? It's just scary and manipulative, for a kid. And...it seemed that the two main kids, the brown haired Levi and his sister, were excessively precocious in their knowledge of spiritual matters...

I vividly remember, this morning, the object lesson Becky gave with the stuff tigers. One was a little cub, all cute and cuddly. It represented sin early on, when it doesn't seem like a big deal. But soon enough, "You've got a tiger by the tail," she says, swinging a large stuffed tiger and dramatically plopping it on a table. "You're no longer in control; the sin is."

And, I'm thinking...this is a much better analogy for ADDICTION, not sin. Not all sin grows exponentially in power and control. Furthermore, some of these kids were really young, under 10. Not to undersell children's understanding, but as an educator and play therapist in training, I think it was not age appropriate for a large portion of the audience.

Especially when contrasting the child-like nature of the seemingly entertaining creation video.

I loathed the LIFE guy. I am staunchly pro-life, but his 3D fetus examples were inaccurate. They seemed pretty accurate size wise, but their shape was not right. When a fetus is that small, it doesn't look that much like a baby. Let's use accurate science folks, mmkay?

Tape on a child's mouth bothered me. Although they took the tape "voluntarily," I think they would have also taken the special Kool-Aid. I'm just not into silencing a child's mouth. And "yes" without the option of "no" is not consent.

I really loathed the special treatment Levi received. He was the star, the favored, the golden child. I remember a young woman like that, how she was the de facto leader, how all the youth group followed her like little sheep, how the adults coddled her. Favoritism doesn't work in families; it doesn't work in church, either. I remembered alot of social and spiritual inequality though Levi.

And the pro-life guy called him up to receive the special blessing. I wanted to shake that man, to tell him that if you want to teach children that God loves each of them, that God finds each of them PRECIOUS, you call up the LEAST among them, and shower THAT child with those blessings. To call up the golden child merely enforces the idea that God loves best those who play the spiritual game best.

And...where was the Good News? Where was the concept that, "Kids, we all live in this broken fallen down world. Everytime you cry, God knows, and weeps with you. Everytime you are sick or lonely or sad, God is with you. Everytime you are glad and dancing, Jesus dances with you. God created you and thinks you are precious, even if you can't make good grades or play baseball or say good prayers or preach. He wants to be part of your life." Where was that message?!?! Even *I* heard that a few times growing up.

That's my take on the film. It is a very good documentary. I have a pretty strong emotional reaction to it, but I've tried to acknowledge what is my own drama and what is that of the film.

[Hope 98]

I saw the commercials, and just little 30 second clips made me cringe. Part of me is curious - but I think I'd have to prepare myself to watch without major reaction.

[SpinningHead]

I saw it...I don't even know where to begin!!

She closed down her camp after public (both secular & Christian) outcry.

Those poor kids. They are way too young to worry about dancing in flesh, sermon contents vs. gimmicks, spiritual warfare & bawling hysterically in groups over abortions and addressing satan in the manner they were forced to do. That woman who ran the camp was creepy.

Those kids are in their teens now...I wonder what they're doing, thinking and so forth.

And since when is global warming a Christian principle?? :mad:

[FoxInSox]

SpinningHead,

No, you've got it wrong ;).

Global warming isn't a Christian principle; DENYING global warming is a Christian, well, conservative evangelical, principle :rolleyes:

[mountain]

SpinningHead,

No, you've got it wrong ;).

Global warming isn't a Christian principle; DENYING global warming is a Christian, well, conservative evangelical, principle :rolleyes:

Out on a limb... but its a new year...

Who says conservative evangelical is a Christian principle ??

My favorite saying to my legalistic childhood brethren that still believe in such is...

Nobody has a monopoly on God... Christ came to make way for each one of us equally... if you get close enough to the source, you don't need a filter.

Much freedom... much responsibility.

mtn

[hornblower]

I hope you guys dont get mad at me but I kind of wonder about this stuff...

You know I did day care for almost twenty years.......I poured my heart and soul in to it every single day and late sometimes almost nightime, you'd be surprised how little time some parents spend with their children.

I had quite a few experiences with God when I was younger......real experiences and nobody ever talked to me about God except my aunt who was a unitarian and believed that Jesus was an alien sent to the earth.......one of many by the way.........also she taught me about reincarnation.........she completely stole the relationship I had with God away from me. My Mother just let her do it never questioned anything.......to this day I grieve this thing happening to me. I cant help but think about it and even my poor aunt that personally I think she suffered for doing that to me and her own children as well.
You know what the word says about anyone taking God away from a child? She went on to live that kind of a life and that kind of a death too.

So my point is and by the way I do believe in global warming.......I dont know President Bush so I dont know whether he is good or bad and I dont think that God is a republican or a democrat either and I happen to think that Jane Fonda and Bob Dillon are real christians.........that little fact doesnt make me too popular down here in the bible belt but its what I choose to believe I may be wrong but so might they be.......... who knows..........

My point is.......do you really think that liberals are not teaching children worse things???????? Because my friends they are! I say liberals because all I am saying is I have watched my family torn apart because of the liberal contention of teaching children things like Isis is REAL! To me Harry Potter is just a fantasy book line that this lady has made a mint off of. But......I'm sure i wouldnt have let my children read those books.
Ill tell you why........theres a lot of magic in them the whole thing is about magic and my brother and sister in law believe in doing that stuff...........so what would you do?
Stand by and let your kids go down the same tube that their kids are down now?
My daughter and my son are a lot more right wing than I am. I dont know about my son but my daughter was crazy about Bush.........in fact thats when I figured something might not be right there. Lol.
Doesnt matter to me Im not politically minded anyway........Ive seen em come and go so to me they are just men trying to do a job...........nobodies perfect and I dont expect them to be but I do respect the office.

Anyway it always hurt me so much the entire time I had to teach all of those children in church schools too mind you and I could barely even pray for them and thats the truth because the schools were so afraid of being sued.........its just pitiful.

I have always run into problems with all of it.

The first place I worked at one teacher told me you cannot give the gospel to children at all you have to have a doctorates degree to do that (?????????)

Thank goodness the director didnt agree with her. I still had to quit anyway I saw a teacher and the director hit kids........I was going to spill the beans and they knew it so it was quit or be fired..........I quit

The next school was my daughters public school where the history teacher was teaching black magic and esp to the kids. We went to the principal about it, they all knew it was happening they couldnt fire him they said he was jewish and he would sue them if they fired him.

The next school was charismatic and there they wanted me to tell the children my testimony........so I drew it and told them what had happened to me. I always get in trouble for my testimony and I was scared but the teacher had checked it all out and wanted me to do it so I did.
Sure enough......I read a scripture from revelations on His robe was dipped in blood or was red or something........I tried to hurry over that but too late and they started laughing........all of these little kids started laughing and making fun of that........I didnt know what to do.

Later on the principals wife came to me saying why did you tell our children about communion.......I had no idea what she was talking about........I didnt tell anyones kids about commiunion...........nobody will let you tell kids about communion anywhere.........

Well those same children were dipping their crackers in red juice at snack time and repeating that scripture His robe was dipped in blood and they were laughing about it.

Anyway then they HAD to teach them about communion.

My point is I dont agree with a lot of what this lady is saying especially the war stuff thats crapeola anyway........and thats whats wrong with it......its not the teaching of christianity thats wrong to children its the WRONG teaching of Christianty to children thats wrong. Just like its wrong anywhere to anyone.
Personally I think children need more teaching and good teaching too........if you think they wont get taught you are wrong they are being taught all of the time everyhere they are. Parents are not doing it for one thing. My parents didnt teach me. My Mother was the only Christian in my home and she took me to church but that was it and I didnt get any of my questions answered there at all.
Hey how many of you went to camp?
You know what I learned in camp and church camp too.........how to have a boyfriend and gossip and be in cliques thats all I ever saw in the church camps i went too......then the other camps the girl scouts and stuff.........same stuff.
Im just curious and plus I hurt for children that here they are never to be told the truth about anything........what do you think God wants us to teach them? To read all the Harry Potter books they can?
Hes a cute kid by the way but really its just one more fad..........and theres a million of them.........wjy cant they have a Jesus fad that might last a while?
If my aunt hadnt done that to me I might have had a fighting chance growing up. I do know some people that got to know Jesus in a camp and it literally saved their lives from a hell in their homes not worth going in to.
Im not sticking up for her but at the same time I do understand the frustration of seeing children lost...................and not being able to say one word to them.
I can tell you I have had one young girl come to my house begging me to tell her and pray for her about Jesus. I should have just gone out into the streets and brought Jesus to every child I knew and let them put me in jail I guess.

[Elisabeth]

SpinningHead,

No, you've got it wrong ;).

Global warming isn't a Christian principle; DENYING global warming is a Christian, well, conservative evangelical, principle :rolleyes:

You know, that is one thing I have never been able to figure out. Why in tarnation is it so hard for them to admit that we are screwing up the environment with our auto emissions, etc? I mean, to admit that and make some changes does not go against the Bible! Maybe it's the conservative pro big - business agenda getting mixed up with Christian beliefs? :confused: That's all I can figure out!

[FoxInSox]

I really think its just one of those things where politics and religion get a messed up in a big ball.

What's really odd is that politically, the people who generally deny or minimize global warming are those who beleive in a "young earth."

Those who are alarmed about global warning believe the earth is millions and millions of years old, which means its gone through many cycles of ice ages and temperate eras and so on. Which suggests that the warming of the earth now is part of this hot-cold cycle. But they are panicky.

The people who seem to think its no big deal also don't think its part of a natural cycle.

(yes, i'm making grand generalizations. but it IS rather ironic)

[SpinningHead]

You know, that is one thing I have never been able to figure out. Why in tarnation is it so hard for them to admit that we are screwing up the environment with our auto emissions, etc? I mean, to admit that and make some changes does not go against the Bible! Maybe it's the conservative pro big - business agenda getting mixed up with Christian beliefs? :confused: That's all I can figure out!

That about says it.

[Willow]

I think we should also ban cow farts and burps while we're at it on the emissions control. :p

[FoxInSox]

Dude, can we ban my husband's farts and burps while we are at it?!?!

[Willow]

Maybe we can come up with some kind of torch system that resides behind people and animals... kind of like tail lights. When methane gas is injected via farts the flame ignites... burning off the offensive odor and pollutant to our fragile atmosphere. In the meantime, we'd know who farted. No covering up your farts!!

[mary]

Maybe we can come up with some kind of torch system that resides behind people and animals... kind of like tail lights. When methane gas is injected via farts the flame ignites... burning off the offensive odor and pollutant to our fragile atmosphere. In the meantime, we'd know who farted. No covering up your farts!!

Amy, here's a man you'll appreciate:

http://www.oftenwrong.net/2007/03/25/handsome-man-breaks-wind-gets-banned-from-pub/

No covering up... Nope: instead, he's getting his "15 minutes of fame" this way...:D

mary

[Elisabeth]

Amy, here's a man you'll appreciate:

http://www.oftenwrong.net/2007/03/25/handsome-man-breaks-wind-gets-banned-from-pub/

No covering up... Nope: instead, he's getting his "15 minutes of fame" this way...:D

mary

Some people are so gross! :eek:

[SpinningHead]

Dude, can we ban my husband's farts and burps while we are at it?!?!

AMEN TO THAT!

[Jerry]

Dude, can we ban my husband's farts and burps while we are at it?!?!

Dear FoxInSox,,,,
Believe me when I tell you that your husbands farts are a "Tip-Toe through The Tulips" compared to my dog "Toby" ....Toby is a morbidly obese 12 year old Beagle with a "Bio-Hazard" tag on her collar.One of Toby's "Biological Attacks" (We have grown to call them) would cause a "Has-Mat" response to any shopping mall in the country...... The gas emitted by this K-9 causes a 5 stage physical reaction....1.The eyes burn and quickly swell shut.2.The roof of the mouth becomes all greesy.3.It becomes increasingly difficult to breeth.4.THEN you smell it !!!!!.5.People loose control and all regard for others in an effort to extricate themselves from the building,,,,,,,,or the "Family Room" :eek: So don't feel bad ,,,,,your one of the lucky ones :D

P.S. In the meantime "Toby" just lays there snoring ...........

[Willow]

Dear FoxInSox,,,,
Believe me when I tell you that your husbands farts are a "Tip-Toe through The Tulips" compared to my dog "Toby" ....Toby is a morbidly obese 12 year old Beagle with a "Bio-Hazard" tag on her collar.One of Toby's "Biological Attacks" (We have grown to call them) would cause a "Has-Mat" response to any shopping mall in the country...... The gas emitted by this K-9 causes a 5 stage physical reaction....1.The eyes burn and quickly swell shut.2.The roof of the mouth becomes all greesy.3.It becomes increasingly difficult to breeth.4.THEN you smell it !!!!!.5.People loose control and all regard for others in an effort to extricate themselves from the building,,,,,,,,or the "Family Room" :eek: So don't feel bad ,,,,,your one of the lucky ones :D

P.S. In the meantime "Toby" just lays there snoring ...........

Jerry... I happen to know that you're gaseous emissions have also caused poor Toby to hide behind the sofa. :D:eek:

[Willow]

Isn't it interesting how a thread about a Jesus Camp Movie can turn into a discussion about emissions control and then about human and animal odor? HAHA

[Reg]

Isn't it interesting how a thread about a Jesus Camp Movie can turn into a discussion about emissions control and then about human and animal odor? HAHA
However, the both have something in common. They both stink.:mad:

[Willow]

True Reg.... so true!

[Elisabeth]

However, the both have something in common. They both stink.:mad:

Didn't think of that parallel. And, like Willow said, so true!