Resources for those hurt by deliverance/counseling ministries?MT?

[Ontheroad]

I realize that I've started several new threads recently.... I hope that's OK.

Does anyone know of any online resources to help people who were hurt in deliverance/spiritual warfare sessions? A big part of the abuse at my former church involved very errant counseling and deliverance sessions. The pastor was way, way, way off Biblically and the "counseling" and deliverance sessions I was in were horribly wrong and traumatic. I still have flashbacks to some of the deliverance sessions.

I researched online last night for quite a while and found some articles about faulty deliverance ministries, but very little in the way of forums, testimonies, or help for people who exited that type of abusive ministry.

(Let me qualify: I am not saying that all deliverance ministries are faulty or abusive, just that mine was, to the extreme.)

Thank you to anyone who may know of some helpful resources.

[Jerry]

I am not saying that all deliverance ministries are faulty or abusive, just that mine was, to the extreme.)

.
Dear Ontheroad,,
Well maybe your not saying that,but if you DID make a statement like that,,,,,,,,,,,,I would not challange it ;)
Love Jerry

[Dolphin]

I was tramatized too in a deliverance ministry church. What I said during the session was repeated all over the church I found out by the deliverance minister and it was not anything criminal I did either. There was no reason for that to happen. This was the church I went to after the church I was in tried to turn me into a prostitute! I was in a sect off of the Worldwide church of God, called the church of God, but known as a nondenominational sabbath keeping church. I did not know that they were "church of God" because I never was told or heard of it. I know that now for a fact that they were. Well, this church was a politically radical group that I did not know about. I left when I found out that they believed hilter is a good man. They turned out to be a radical group that had a public business with alternative medicine. They were anything but gentle people. I found out online that there are branches of the "churhc of god" sabbath keeping groups that are "christian idenity" or what this group was. The fbi articles I read said that one of the two types of christian identity churches hides their identity of what they are and it takes weeks and months to uncover it. I wonder why they are not in jail. They were really bad people. The deliverance church I went to after that for help were also bad people. They bragged about the curses they put on people and how they died. People who did not deserve this either. They literally looked for fresh meat to degrade. I was broken when I went there. I was nervous with anxiety attacks. I could not get out of bed in the morning. I was not working. I felt very confused about what happened before and why. I started to feel very angry inside because I was still afraid. I had been physically threatened there and was afraid. They had tried to get me into a militia also. And their place was haunted too. I had some confusion on me. Well, I went out to this church I heard about on the radio that did deliverance. I sung and was very much trying to get involved. I don't raise my hands but I did actually sing and I did talk to some people which was hard for me. I went out to the diner with some of them after church. This one attractive black man kept trying to get me to eat a muffin and I don't eat at 10 at night. I told him he could have the muffin and I didn't want it and he actually looked at me angry. He said "you were molested when you were younger" and he smiled real big. I was tramatized. I was then told I had a spirit of confusion and he tried to cast it out of me right there. I was confused about christianity but I did not have a spirit anymore than calucus confuses me too and I don't have a spirit of calculcus confusion either. I said nothing though. It was new to me. No one else said anything. I thought I should forgive him. later, I found out he is one of the prophets and is untouchable. When I went forward for deliverance, what I said was repeated to everyone. I was in a chritan store a year later and I was talking to a woman by a turning stand display that we were both looking at and she told me her church was ignoring her bronchitis and they were not praying for her or caring about her. She just said this to me the first thing she said to me. talking outloud. I said what church is that? she said its ________. So I knew that church I was not surprised, but I did not want to talk about them and I said "oh". And then she started defending them and how great they were and went into a sales mode and I thought how strange that was that she had first said they didn't care and how she had been there for 14 years going to all the meetings too. Then, she said "oh I know who you are!" because she remembered the gossip. I had no idea who she was though, but now I do know who she is. One of them. This is the type of thing you get from going to church I suppose.

I am no longer a chritian today.

For those of you with an ear, consider that the women during the time of Christ and Jewish times lived exactly like those under the taliban. They could not leave the house, if they were raped, it was their fault and had to marry the rapist. They were property. marriages were arranged. they could be beat and have sex forced on them. Jesus did nothing to alleviate this oppression either. He talked to women and told them they could be forgiven but did not alleviate the laws the women lived under. He came to fufil the law. The new testament says next to nothing to alleviate the burdens women lived under and anything it does say is extremely simplistic.

Those terrorists today hate our country because they claim the usa is not moral and they have a right to destroy it. This is also exactly what God told those in the Old Testament to do to the surrounding towns that were not moral. Do you really think that the God of the bible is God or a cultural configuration? We really don't know now do we? I know too many women in bad marriages where their pastor could care less too about them.

I'm not going to walk into that kind of thing again as much as I can help it. It's not funny that women are supposedly to blindly listen to men they marry and the cultural icon of the bible supposedly thinks that women are to "obey their husbands but a women unmarried obeys the lord" so married women have the husband as God then? how conveinent for paul and his friends.

Remember the indians and their stories of myth. remember the good values they encourage and how their religion is culturally biased. It is that way in every culture. There is no difference. America is strong because of its laws and because of hardworking people. Christianity did not make america. And women in america are free because of america, not because of christianity. Chrisitanity is often cited for making women equal but that is not true and it was never true til the laws of this country have changed. Many women in churches live under severe oppression in their marriages and are supposed to take the brunt of wrongs of their mate while he calls it "love" and blames his wife for every little thing wrong saying "she did not obey" We have christiantity to thank for this attitude. We don't see in the New Testament any real thought put into marriage. We see a few very simplistic paragraphs that are warped today. You don't see anything like "don't beat your wives, don't force sex on them, don't have sex with your female slaves, don't stone nonvirgins to death on their wedding night, don't treat your wife as property, help them to know how to protect themselves nad how to live and not feel inferior". You see none of that at all. It's really weird that anyone would believe that the bible is actually okay. You see more care put into how marriages should be in other cultures and religions.

Churches are filled with jealous superior people waiting to attack. Better to join a kite-flying club. They once tried to turn me into a prostitute because I was "only a woman" and I was also fodder for another church because I "hadn't joined yet" and I was not looking rich or important.

How can anyone say that the bible is anything more than history and opinions. You make it what you want it to be. If you want to be led into some trance in church music or into idolizing some bastard preacher than they are putting one over you. It's what you want it to be or what someone else wants it to be for you. I for one am tired of it all.

I have a strong belief in a good and fair God and the supernatural and it is not someone who thinks Lot is a godly man for giving his virgin daughters to a sex crazed mob to be raped to death because these good-looking supernatural angels could not defend themselves against the mob. C'mon now. It's common sense as to what conclusion to draw about the moral values of that story and many of the others.

I don't need some horrible church needing to reinforce my self-esteem, and setting myself up for a bad marriage that I cannot leave and when and if I do leave I have nervous disorders and sicknesses and ulcers reopened and I am old and without energy or knowing who I am and then maligned for leaving the marriage and with many lost friends and others who are gossipy friends because the bible says only for the cause of adultery can divorce be allowed. Did you know that adultery meant not to have sex with your neighbors wife? It was okay for men to stick it to the female slaves, prostitutes, and unmarried women, the woman from the war-won cultures, and concumbines. Just the neighbors wife is bad because you defamed your neighbors "property". Funny thing you have Solomon who had a zillon sex partners as concumbines who thinks its bad to see prostitues but okay for concumbines huh?

It doesn't make any sense to me?

[Ontheroad]

Dolphin, what you went through was awful and there is no excuse. I'm sorry that you were subjected to an obviously faulty deliverance minstry and that they betrayed your confidence on top of it. God would never have wanted that for you. I truly hope you find healing, truth, and peace.

[Ontheroad]

I found some interesting links while doing some websearching about false deliverance/counseling ministries. I'll share a few here, for anyone interested. Some may be a little triggering, so be careful if needed.

Here is a 4-part article series on destructive deliverance ministries:

http://www.ntskeptics.org/1998/1998may/may1998.htm
http://www.ntskeptics.org/1998/1998august/august1998.htm
http://www.ntskeptics.org/1998/1998september/september1998.htm
http://www.ntskeptics.org/1998/1998october/october1998.htm


Some more links on faulty deliverance/counseling issues:

http://www.availablelightonline.com/warfare.html
http://www.twincityfellowship.com/cic/articles/issue78.htm
http://www.streamsministries.com/Warfare.html
http://www.cbcvallejo.org/Deliverance_and_Spiritual_Warfare_NoFrame.htm
http://home.datawest.net/esn-recovery/artcls/hidden.htm
http://www.pnministries.org/living/lw2-00.htm

[ex-shep]

Wow!! Somebody did their homework. I am impressed. I have to get ready for work so I do not have time to check the links; nevertheless, next latte is on me. Good job!!

[4trustful one]

Quote: "Jesus did nothing to alleviate this oppression either"


Dear Father,

Please have mercy on the one who wrote this and on anyone else on this forum who has, apparently, been deeply wounded.

I know, dear Father, that there are many things in the Bible that we cannot understand and that cause deep doubts about your Son, Jesus; about His goodness and loving-kindness. I also know that many of us, including me, have been deeply wounded by people who have mis-represented Christ. I have experinced so much fear of You and have not understood the purpose of evil. I still don't understand.

However, Father, You have been alleviating, through Jesus, my oppression and fears, after many, many years. Jesus is the very one who is setting me free from the effects of abuse; spiritual, emotional, mental and physical. I have experienced the devestating effects of abuse and it is only Your hand that has brought me back to Your treasured Son.

May this dear one's eyes be opened to the ultimate Relief of all oppression. Father, in the natural world, women are still oppressed. But in the spiritual realm, we begin to be set free from all oppression. In the end, when everything is made ultimately good,we will be set free from all oppression and Jesus will be known by all as the great Liberator.

Father, You know the serious doubts that I have had regarding suffering, oppression and evil. I have not trusted You nor your Son. Much of this was a result of people in churches who misrepresented Jesus. But, Father, you are opening my eyes, through Your amazing grace and love, to the beauty that is in You and Your Son. You are helping me to begin to put my trust in You and to rest. It is not easy but You are helping me.

Father, You and Your Son have truly suffered more than any of us. You weep for this dear soul and You long to heal her broken heart.

By your grace, may You do that for her and all that have been greatly abused and hurt by men. May we feel safe in Your arms. May we know that You are trustworthy and kind.

In Jesus' name

[Jerry]

Quote:

May this dear one's eyes be opened to the ultimate Relief of all oppression. Father, in the natural world, women are still oppressed. But in the spiritual realm, we begin to be set free from all oppression. In the end, when everything is made ultimately good,we will be set free from all oppression and Jesus will be known by all as the great Liberator.

Father, You know the serious doubts that I have had regarding suffering, oppression and evil. I have not trusted You nor your Son. Much of this was a result of people in churches who misrepresented Jesus. But, Father, you are opening my eyes, through Your amazing grace and love, to the beauty that is in You and Your Son. You are helping me to begin to put my trust in You and to rest. It is not easy but You are helping me.

Father, You and Your Son have truly suffered more than any of us. You weep for this dear soul and You long to heal her broken heart.

By your grace, may You do that for her and all that have been greatly abused and hurt by men. May we feel safe in Your arms. May we know that You are trustworthy and kind.

In Jesus' name
Dear Trustful One,,,
I trust that you will not be offended,,,,,but I must confess that the last half of your post makes me "Squirrely". You see,,,,,the way it reads, the way it is constructed,I am forced to ask the question,,,,,,,;Are you a "Fisher of men" or are you a "Fisher of Women" ???? I deeply love all the ladys on this board,,,,,and I also have a wife that I deeply love,and all the ladys here know that !! Your "Public Profile" reviels nothing,not even your gender. I like your posts,but trust you ???? not yet !!!!!!
Jerry

[4trustful one]

I am so sorry that you felt "squirrely". I did my best, I really did.
I am neither a fisher of men or women. I was only trying to defend my treasured Jesus.
I was responding to remarks made about Jesus.
It hurts me that someone would hurt my Jesus so.............by their remarks on a "Christian" forum.
If you look carefully at my post you will see that I quoted her and was trying to respond to the negative things said about my God.
I realize that many of have trust issues here but it grieves me that I am attacked and Jesus was attacked. . When He is attacked it breaks my heart and it breaks His heart when I am attacked.
It also makes me weep that you would point out what is wrong with my post and not look for the best. Please do look more closely at my posting name. I do not ask you to trust me. I never asked anyone to trust me! I do not want people to distrust God because of the half truths (about Jesus) that were presented in the offensive (to me) post. Having said that, I realize that she must have been very hurt in the past; I do not blame her. I have had my doubts about God, also but am trying my hardest to work through them. I am also trying to help others.
I did my best, I really did, Jerry

[Willow]

Maybe Jerry has a demon... do ya think? After all... demons tremble and he feels squirrely. I think it's a sign to cast that demon out of him! :p

Am I in trouble now! :eek:

[4trustful one]

I admit, that I am so very angry and offended at your post that I should not be writing this now. I know, in my heart that you are trying to protect yourself, your wife and others on this forum.
Jerry - my post was a prayer for the one that posted the misrepresentation about Jesus. It was a prayer and it came from the bottom of my heart. I waited after I saw it for two days before I replied because I was so upset. My post was a sincere prayer for her.
Your reply to me insinuates that I am an online prostitute!
I beg of you to tell God that I am a prostitute. Please accuse me before Him before you falsly insinuate something about me on this forum. He knows my heart. You do not!

In love with my husband, 4trustful one.

[Satscout]

Someone referee this please.... help me understand what just happened...

If I read the thread straight:

- Dolphin related a history of being very very VERY badly hurt by a church/"deliverance" ministry mentioned in the root post, and her subsequent doubts about the validity of New Testament Christianity as a result.

- One of the issues at stake was the question of what if anything Jesus did to "liberate" women, either culturally or otherwise.

- 4trustful one offered a prayer on Dolphin's behalf and for anyone else struggling with these or similar issues.

- Jerry triggered somewhat on the wording of said prayer, which if you squint right could be mistaken as a type of argument/prayer for female liberation as opposed to release from spiritual bondage... at least I think that's kind of what he might have triggered on based on his reply. FEEL FREE TO CORRECT ME AT ANY POINT PLEASE...

- 4trustful one misinterpreted his concern as an attack on Jesus and/or her and is hurt.

Am I close so far???

I sincerely do NOT think Jerry was implying prostitution of ANY kind, just perhaps a misdirection of focus within the prayer.

Peace to all...

Sharon

[Jerry]

Ok,,,,,,This all stems from misidentification of gender.I thought Trustful one was a man.If you read the first paragraph of the qoute portion of my offending post,I hope at least you all can understand what bugged me.I got a strong feeling from that paragraph that it was a man (Preditor) .The reason was because I checked Trustful ones profile and it contained no gender identification,so my brain swiched to suspcious mode....Then I in my infinate wisdom :rolleyes: wrote the rest of my post so that,and it obviously was, also would be misunderstood.Trustful,,,,I can't tell you how deeply sorry I am that you got the idea that I thought you were a prostitute.You can ask any of the ladys on this board,I would never intentionaly hurt any woman like that,even if she was a prostitute,which you obviously ARE NOT !!!! I would never publicly humiliate a woman like that. Your posts have been a wonderful addition to this board and I hope you choose to stay,in spite of my stupid error.Again ,,,I am truely sorry.
Love Jerry

[Savedbygrace]

Hello all. Just reading the threads, and I can see we are all online right now. 4trustful, I just wanted to tell you that I understood your prayer for Dolphin and can see it was very heartfelt. I also just wanted to vouch for my friend Jerry. He is like my dad here, and just misread, misunderstood your post, and I am certain that he meant no harm.

I too have enjoyed reading your posts here, and I pray that you and Jerry can make peace.

Maybe I should just stay out of this, but I cannot stand conflict :o and I hate to see my friends hurting.

Love and peace,

Trish

[4trustful one]

Jerry,

I believe that you are truly sorry. I really do. I hold nothing against you and forgive you. You only meant good from your post. I have been reading your posts for quite awhile as a "guest" and I know what a blessing that you are to this forum.
I will re-read the part of my post that, apparently, contributed to your suspision re: me and my intentions. I will do it ASAP but right now am still kind-of upset.

the reason I put nothing on my profile, is because I was afraid. I am sorry if that contributed to your confusion.

I pray that you might rest in peace, Jerry and please give a hug to your wife for me.

4(my)trustful one

[Jerry]

Maybe Jerry has a demon... do ya think? After all... demons tremble and he feels squirrely. I think it's a sign to cast that demon out of him! :p

Am I in trouble now! :eek:
Dear Willow,,,
Willow have you always had this problem ???? you know what I mean,,,,,,,disearning between demonic and stupid???? ;) although to be serious too,both do damage that is painful and difficult to repair.
Love Jerry

[Willow]

(((((((((((HUGS Jerry))))))))))))))

[Katie]

Let me step into this carefully.

"Not talking straight" is when we use a round about method to get our message to another person. This is actually one way that abuse occurs. We say one thing, and are sending a different message than what we say. I can't tell you how many times I have seen prayer used to get someone's point across.

In this case, I believe that Trustful was sincere in wanting to pray for Dolphin. But by her own admission was also trying to defend Jesus (which in my opinion is not necessary) and explain some things to Dolphin. While none of these things are wrong, the mixing it within a prayer and religious language causes confusion and a feeling of being manipulated.

Trustful, I hope you understand that I am not judging you, but pointing out what triggered some of the responses to your post. When you want to give your opinion to someone, it is best given as your opinion, and not mixed in with a prayer for the person.

[Voyager]

I believe 4trustful one, aka Oopsie, and aka Dolphin are all one and the same. That's why I stay out of these arguments. I learned the hard way that they can't be won.

:cool:

[4trustful one]

Katie,

I receive your admonition and will ponder it and use it to help me grow. For the life of me, it never dawned on me that it might come across as manipulative. But if it did come across as manipulative to anyone here, I apologize. I truly am sorry.

Having said that, I feel like I must share a little more of my concern.

I was deeply troubled at the "tone" that this forum had taken over the holidays. I believe that people had gone too far in expressing their doubts about what God is like. It is one thing to share experiences, hurts, etc. on this forum and receive love and understanding from others. It is another to post hurtful doubts and insinuate terrible things about Him. It is a fearful thing to do because it can be used to draw other people that are hurting further away from God. Does anyone here really want to do that?

You are right, Jesus does not need to be defended in and of Himself. But, I believed His goodness did need to be defended for the sake of people who read on this forum so that they will not be drawn further away from Him and His love for them. Frankly, I am very concerned for several people here.

My heart has deep peace about what I did. Having said that, I do believe it would probably be best just to pray for them. I I will not post any more. It is obvious to me that I might be doing more damage then good.

Willow and Dolphin. If I caused more hurt to you, I apologize. I never meant to make you feel further hurt or anger. I never meant to. I am just worried about you. I beg of you to not let what happened to you keep you from God.

Voyager, I am not Oopsie or Dolphin. You, frankly are the one who was on my heart the most when I posted what I did. I wish that I could have made it better for you............

[Voyager]

You, frankly are the one who was on my heart the most when I posted what I did. I wish that I could have made it better for you............

Whatever. I won't be drug into this nonsense anymore. I learned my lesson the last time.

:cool:

[Katie]

Trustful, I agree with your concerns.

My anchor through my own incident of spiritual abuse has been knowing God and His goodness. I cannot imagine going through this experience without Him.

I feel especially sad for those who don't feel that love from Him. I am new here, but my understanding has been to allow people to express their hurt. When someone goes off on something that I don't believe is true, I choose not to read it. Ontheroad's post #4 expressed my feelings about Dolphin's post really well. So I didn't respond further.

My hope for all of us is that we would grow through our experiences. Bitterness can become a poison. We will each need to find our own way to becoming whole. I came to the board to begin with because I needed a place to be heard and understood.

I was not implying that you should not post, but rather that you should be direct in your post. If there are things that you want to tell Dolphin, Voyager, or anyone else, just say those things to them directly and in a kind way. It is the hidden messages that lead to misunderstanding.

[Willow]

No damage done here 4trustful.
My levity toward Jerry appears to have sent a negative message to you though. Take it as I meant it... to lighten things up a bit.

[4trustful one]

Katie, I tried my best at the time. It does not help me if you keep pointing out my faults..................

[4trustful one]

P.S. Katie, In defense of myself, if you will please look at my original post (prayer) it was done with kindness in my heart. I did not need that from you. It only made things worse.
I ask you to be kind, also, please..............

[Voyager]

There are dozens of members in the member directory with zero posts. My guess is that 75% of them are all the same person.

:confused:

[Satscout]

Don't know if this helps or not...

(((((4trustful one)))))

*I* caught the gist of your prayer and I know it was from the heart. That's why I asked the questions I did - I thought there was misunderstanding and was afraid you would get MORE hurt the more it was talked about and "clarified".

Peace

Sharon

[Satscout]

There are dozens of members in the member directory with zero posts. My guess is that 75% of them are all the same person.

:cool:
The only one who can answer that question is the person in possession of the IP log.

Sharon

[Voyager]

My guess is that 75% of the members in the directory with zero posts are all the same person who got banned a few months ago. I won't mention any names, but the person seems to have a tendency to use multiple screen names. Often they would post one post out of desperation, hopelessness and despair, and then come back with another screen name and answer it with a superspiritual response. No wonder a lot of us are paranoid. It all stopped when the person got banned. But then again, there are always more screen names to choose from. You never know when it will all start up again. For some reason, this thread has a vaguely familiar tone to it.

I've always realized that this person is hurting, but we are all hurting. We've all been hurt by religion being used as a weapon. If there's one thing I hate, it's getting hit upside the head by a "concerned saint" weilding the "sword of the spirit".

:confused:

[Voyager]

In addition, we may be dealing with a trauma bond issue here. I have heard of kids growing up in homes that were always engulfed in religious turmoil. The parents used harsh, abusive discipline and added religious verbiage and overtones to it. Shouting, screaming, and hitting in the name of Jesus and "not sparing the rod". A child raised in this type of environment may grow up addicted to the religion-based trauma and abuse that was the norm in their childhood household. Consequently, they try to relive the religious arguing and fighting when they grow up.

Or the person may be re-living trauma bonds that came from an intense one-on-one relationship with a spiritual abuser. Just a guess.

:cool:

[4trustful one]

Voyager,

I only meant well. I am devestated. There is no where I can go.

[Voyager]

I only meant well. I am devestated. There is no where I can go.

We have all been devastated. It hurts even worse when the people we turn to for help seem to turn on us. Sometimes you may even think that someone is out to get you when they are not, just because all you can see is more hurt being hurled toward you. Hurt people many times lash out at others without any understanding of why they are doing it. But at some point we have to put our weapons down and realize that they are not helping us - they are hurting us, and hurting others too.

Forceful religious beliefs can look like a weapon to someone who has been spiritually abused. I try to stay away from ever shaming anyone with religion, because I know what it feels like. To me, there is never a reason to argue over religious beliefs - because the argument will never be won by either side. Every time I slip into a religious disagreement with someone, I always end up regretting it afterwards. Both parties always walk away wounded.

:cool:

[Voyager]

There is no where I can go.
Why do you think I've stuck around here for so long? I am determined to stay because the people here know what I am going through, and they can relate to me. I have friends here. I don't want to fight with any of them. To me, it's a matter of learning how to stay in a relationship even if I don't agree with someone on religious terms. I was never allowed to do that when I was involved in spiritual abuse. I was taught to sever ties with anyone who didn't agree with my religious beliefs. I was taught to de-value the worth of "infidels" who didn't agree with my theology. I cannot stoop to that level of bigotry any longer. I don't even care if someone is an atheist - as long as they treat me with respect, I will try to return the same.

:cool:

[Voyager]

I'm going to start a new thread about this.

:cool:

[Voyager]

Double-post

[Voyager]

Whoops - double post.

:rolleyes:

[Dolphin]

Trustful, thank you for the prayer. I am okay now.

[Dolphin]

I mean I am a christian. I am confused but still a christian. That's all I want to say.

[4trustful one]

I mean I am a christian. I am confused but still a christian. That's all I want to say.


Thank you, Dolphin for your kind reply. Don't feel alone, sweetie! I am confused, also. I acknowledge that you have been through alot of hurt and I am so sorry that you have had to endure the pain that you went through. for those of us who have been abused, it is extremely hard to understand why "Christians" can be so hurtful. But then, you probably did not need me to say that because you obviously know how hard it can be :confused: No need to say anymore, at least to me :o