MY cult is in San Diego... [Archive] - Christian Recovery Forums

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abbey

10-23-2007, 12:17 PM

Im not wishing it on them, however, those fires are outta control????

jane

10-23-2007, 12:39 PM

my dear.........you brought a smile to my face reading this. I can relate. I can so relate.

jane

abbey

10-23-2007, 12:45 PM

Lol @ Jane

mary

10-23-2007, 01:58 PM

Im not wishing it on them, however, those fires are outta control????

Maybe the sulfur and other noxious gases just kind of leaked out of your cult and started these fires in the first place... :D :D :D

If I heard that there'd been an evacuation because of fumes that were making people sick in a certain suburb around here, I'd consider that the cause of it might be my old "church." It wouldn't surprise me, either, if the stupid thing spontaneously combusted... :eek: :D :p ;) The only thing that would concern me then would be, how's traffic on the freeway so I can get over there and be among the gawkers?!

mary

abbey

10-23-2007, 03:32 PM

mary

10-23-2007, 08:06 PM

LOL @ mary! Spontaneous combustion! LOL...

So i take it your old toxic, fume-spewing church was in Melvindale?

I hate to say this, but if anything happens to that cult leaders house...than God is just. I know my heart is deceitfully wicked! IM Not wishing it...im just...wel if it happens than it does.

No, not Melvindale... A bit to the northwest of that suburb. When you get as far as the far west side of Detroit, you definitely start to smell the ol' Free Toxic Fume-Spewing Congregation... ;) :p Gives off that strong of a sulfurous odor, especially right after "pastor" preaches. Someday, someone will light a match around there and - kaboom! :eek:

Well, I've been watching these TV reports on those fires and they really aren't something I feel like joking about right now... Actually, this weekend, I was supposed to have a delightful reunion with one of my old doctors from the past, the OB who delivered my son; he's coming here for another reason and we were going to get together simply because there are now two miracles to celebrate: my survival after all these years (this doctor sweated and cried along with my husband, mother and grandmother through his extremely expert performance of my C-section) - and this doctor's recent recovery from an aggressive cancer of his own. He and our family were going to get together this weekend - but he lives in the fire area and I don't see how he's going to get out of San Diego tomorrow afternoon. This was going to be a very emotional time for all four of us -- but if it isn't the Lord's will, then it won't happen. I will send him pictures instead...

We should pray for all these people... I'm hearing today from friends who have relatives who are now sitting in the Qualcomm Stadium, having escaped with their lives and little else.

Ab, all of our hearts are desperately wicked and in need of the healing that only the Great Physician can give. What a wonderful thing Paul did for each of us when he wrote that he was the chief of sinners, for when we feel as though we are, we can take comfort in his low state! (1 Timothy 1:15.) Romans 7, too: I read that over and over... But praise the Lord that Romans 8:1 immediately follows it! :) :) :)

Tonight I need to contemplate and pray over my unforgiveness of my husband for something he's done - for God forgave me of much worse things than what he did. I'm sad, but thankful for salvation in Jesus Christ. How often I think unkind, rotten thoughts about others (or about the old church undergoing spontaneous combustion - !), only to regret these thoughts 5 minutes or 5 months later, whatever. I thank the Lord for Jesus... for we can never sin beyond His capacity to save and to forgive.

Love,

mary

butterfly

10-23-2007, 08:20 PM

I loved your first post Mary. I sure needed a smile.

Abby I so can understand your thinking. With your luck the church and His house will be the only ones standing.:(

My wish to my abusers is a few will get depression the real kind like we have.

One who would wake up and see that my not voteing for him who lives in the white house. Wasn"t worth losing a 25 year friendship.
Grrrrrrrrrrr makes me sick fundie PEOPLE.

I was voted down as not a Christian, I didn"t love the lord, I went against my country, I was evil.and more.:(

I never shared that the above. It hurts so bad. Where I live we are told who to vote for. And everyone suppose to vote his party.
Gee we even got a paper to take with us to the polls.
I took up my freedom to vote for who I was free to choose.
Hell I vote for whoever I feel will do a good job.

A thought just came thru my mind fundies treat people like slaves. shirley

butterfly

10-23-2007, 08:28 PM

I forgot I am praying for the people of cal. Fire is not like a weather event.:(

It is so awfull so many people that have to leave their homes.

I pray for the firemen they are brave men and woman.
shirley

Jerry

10-24-2007, 04:01 AM

Ab, all of our hearts are desperately wicked and in need of the healing that only the Great Physician can give. What a wonderful thing Paul did for each of us when he wrote that he was the chief of sinners, for when we feel as though we are, we can take comfort in his low state! (1 Timothy 1:15.) Romans 7, too: I read that over and over... But praise the Lord that Romans 8:1 immediately follows it! :) :) :)
[/COLOR]

For You Mary,,,,
I posted this before but I think before you came

Once in a Saintly Passion
I cried in desperate grief
Oh Lord my heart is black with guile
Of "Sinners" I am chief

Then stooped my Guardian Angel
And whispered from behind
Vanity ! my little man
Your nothing of the kind.................Don't remember the Author

Love Jerry

mary

10-24-2007, 12:36 PM

Awww.... Thanks, Jerry! I've been feeling like "the lowest of the low" lately - and that was a great lift for me!!!! :) :) :) :)

Something occurred to me earlier this week: it's been nearly 13 years since I was converted, and in all that time, I have never yet been in a church where I felt "settled," or where the pastor was permanent, or where I didn't feel as though others were knifing me in the back even as they literally "hugged" me. (And I don't tend at all towards paranoia. I assume, until they show me otherwise, that other people like me. No mental health professional I've ever seen for anxiety or depression has ever suggested paranoia as one of my "Axis II" findings. I firmly believe the adage that says "you're not paranoid if everyone really IS out to get you!" :p ) I guess that as so many others here are, I'm an "Ezekiel 34 Poster Child."

One sad state of affairs. Of course, these are "the end times."

I don't want anyone to get hurt, because who knows whom the Lord might still save? On the other hand, it wouldn't bother me a bit if so many of these putrid, abusive cult venues that some deluded ones think are churches simply went up in smoke and flames. They're going to, sooner or later. Might as well be sooner. ;) :rolleyes: :cool:

Thanks again, Jerry!

Love,

mary

abbey

10-25-2007, 02:22 PM

I wish for no one (yes including my ex leader) to be devestated by the fire. Its a horrible ting that is happening. BUT To contriadict myself. The immense DAMAGE that the cult did to me, i feel they deserve some sort of punishment.Im at place where i just cannot sincerly pray for my eniemies. we are called to forgive and I want to forgive DEEPLY!

Mary, i hope your friend in CA is okay!

Hi butterfly!

mary

10-25-2007, 02:43 PM

Abbey, I know how you feel. :( It's been over two years since "pastor" threw me out, and this rabid squirrel in human clothing just keeps darting around, apparently, the "little fair-haired boy" of the denomination who spits up foul sermons onto his own and everyone else's clothes every Sunday morning, defiles pulpits, lays waste to others' faith because he has none of his own, etc., etc. :mad: And I ask myself, will this never end???? Your old cult leader's and my "pastor's" undoing will occur in the Lord's timing and we will get to see it. (Psalm 112:8, and others.)

When we can't pray for our enemies, we ask the Lord to give us a heart to do it. We can't do it on our own; there's no way. Before my father died, I asked the Lord to make me witness to him, to lay the bitterness and the hatred aside for just a few minutes - and I did it. Now that he's gone and I'm 99.9% sure I'll never see him again, I still have bad days, days in which I find a picture of my father around the house, rip it to shreds and throw it in the trash - but I'm losing the heart to do even that anymore.

Forgiving "pastor" yet? No. He hasn't asked for forgiveness; he's still alive and every day that goes by, I see as another nail in the coffin of his possible salvation. That gives me no pleasure, but it's a fact.

Vengeance is the Lord's; we just have to wait on Him to give us what He will as to forgiveness of and prayer for these people.

Love,

mary

Elisabeth

10-26-2007, 09:00 AM

mary

10-26-2007, 12:45 PM

Of course, property and financial damage without anyone getting hurt would slow them down... :o :rolleyes: (And I know that isn't Christian at all.)

But to be serious, the whole state of affairs there is very sad, but it is only human to have a part that wants a way, any way, for someone who is dispensing only hurt to be put out of commission.

We can pray for the Lord to break their arm (Psalm 10:15) and their teeth (Psalm 58:6) and we can prayerfully and righteously assert to God that we hate them who hate Him (Psalm 139:21-22), for starters. Some "looking out for No. 1" - himself - OPC pastor with whom I discussed these verses in the wake of what happened to me in the last church told me that "they don't apply to situations like yours..." Since when??? :confused: :mad: :eek: The psalms are what God gave us for prayers, they say what they say - and in the new church we're trying to start here, we sing them as hymns. There's nothing wrong with them! :) ;)

I am sick of being "nicey-nice" to God's sworn or implicit enemies. To what does it lead in the end? Well, quite far down the road of being "nice" to those who hate God is the recent incident of the archbishop of San Francisco dispensing the Eucharist (Holy Communion) to two outlandishly dressed members of the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence at a mass on Oct 7. Here's the link to the story:
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58334. I watched the entire video (including the part where the archbishop mouths to one of the nuns, "Thanks so much for being here") and as an ex-Catholic, I was absolutely disgusted. Words are inadequate to express how repugnant this is to me, and should be to all either former or current Catholics. But it's not disgusting to many Catholics; their consciences have been seared, they consider this to be admirable "tolerance" and besides that, they just don't give a flying flip. They wind up accepting every kind of sin and tolerating the works of Satan in their midst... But since when, Elisabeth, are the things that happened to us not the works of Satan, either? Of course, they are.

I guess I could pray for a stray, out-of-season tornado (that's the likeliest thing that could happen to my old church, since we have no wildfires around here) to hit the structures at 3 a.m. so that "nobody gets hurt." Of course, we don't want innocent people hurt. But I really don't care about "pastor," his wife or their daughter. :mad: Why should I?

These people should not continue to be enriched by feeding off of God's flock. The sheer, secular economic theory of what they do to people dictates that they be forced into finding another line of work, the same as a restaurant owner must whose establishment fails state food handlers' inspections. When word gets around, he's left without customers. Same thing should happen to churches. Why doesn't it? Because they operate behind a thin veneer of "Christianity" when they're really craven, Machiavellian con artists of the worst kind.

After 13 years, I'm through with being "nice" to these phonies. They're making merchandise of people like us and they need to GO. Now.

mary

Turtle

10-26-2007, 10:34 PM

Willow

10-27-2007, 05:59 AM

I just got back from a visit to Vista, CA. I spent most of the trip helping the elderly couple I was staying with pack their valuables and take pictures of the contents of the house. Fortunately, none of the fires came within 5 miles of them... at least I don't think so. They were in the evacuation zone for awhile though, but they are too old to evacuate until absolutely necessary.

I guess the old addage that God rains on the godly and ungodly alike is true in reverse as well... some very good people and some very bad people suffered losses. It would be so easy if the tares weren't all mixed in with the wheat, eh?

Jerry

10-27-2007, 08:09 AM

It would be so easy if the tares weren't all mixed in with the wheat, eh?

A very astute observation Willow ;)

Learning to trust

10-27-2007, 12:26 PM

I used to be very involved on both recovery forums. Now I mostly just read on occasion.

I debated back and forth within myself about whether or not to even post a comment ... especially when I feel soooo reactive to what I have just read.

I keep typing and deleting, typing and deleting...

No matter how many attempts I make, there is no perfect way to give voice to what I am experiencing.

soooo ... here goes. I'm sure hindsite will seem like twenty twenty to me and I will think of quite a few better approaches I could have taken.

mary, (I feel like I am writing to myself. My name is also mary, and I have been writing it in lower case for a the past 7 or so years... I probably "am" writing more to myself than I even know at the moment.) Very often the things that get psople the most upset are the very things they struggle with and I know I deeply struggle with ideas of God being ... conditional and tempermental... even hateful...:confused:

again, I keep typing and deleting, typing and deleting. I don't want to hurt you or make you mad or start a war of ANYKIND! It is that very kind of thing that has led me to stay as uninvolved as I have.

*deep breath*

I'm feeling a lot of reaction to the way scripture is being used in this thread.

I could say so much more and I am sure I will have to do a lot of journaling to get back to a place of relative balance ... spiritually.

Much of my recovery from spiritual abuse has had to do with journeying toward and developing a relationship with a "God" ... or "THE GOD" that is very different in spirit from the one I experience while reading your scriptural quotes. The denomination I am recovering from was not filled with demons ... it was filled with people that were passionate ... people that cut and pasted scripture in ways they were certain were the "word of God" yet the spirit of love and grace ... compassion and empathy ... were anorexic at best... completely missing most often.

I sense a lot of hurt and rage within your post. I have no doubt that you have been hurt ... deeply... as most all of us have also been. The most helpful thing in my recovery has been to have new experiences with people and situations that are different than the things that have hurt me. It has been to learn that God is God ... If He is choosing to allow things to happen as they do, who am I to think I know better and/or that unless I do something ... unless I fight against them in the same way that they fight against others or wish upon them the same kinds of damage they pile on others ... God's will is not being done ... in my case, that makes me no different because that is the very mentality that has hurt and maimed me so foundationally.

The only way I can heal is to know grace and love and as a healing result become a channel of it to others. To me, that is what recovery is all about.

I do not mean to hurt or shame anyone by what I am saying. like I said, I will most likely regret having even said anything.

grace and peace to us all as we continue to grow and heal ... and as the encouragement from this site states, may our roots sink deep in the sil of God's love...

marym aka learning to trust

mary

10-27-2007, 01:46 PM

Learning to trust

10-27-2007, 02:24 PM

Thank you for your post, Learning to Trust, and for your candor with me. No, you haven't hurt or shamed me.

Do you think I was deeply hurt? No. "Pastor" didn't hurt me, and no one here hurts me. You have to be human to be hurt or to feel rage.

I am too old, too sick and best of all, have had too much rejection in my life to care what anyone thinks of me anymore.

ouch... I am often tempted to encapsulate myself within an armor insulated by anger and despair ... in my attempts to kill the pain and insanity that get's so old... I follow what you are saying ...

I am deeply sorry I posted what I did. If you knew me, you would know that all I have ever tried to be in my life is a "channel" of help and healing - but all I've generally gotten in return is kicked in the teeth, especially in churches and from "church people."

I'm sorry for all of the times you were kicked in the teeth... I get that too. It is a sad thing to know that noone has ever hurt me as deeply as the very ones I thought I was safest with. At least that was what I was always told. sad...

Maybe my friend who sent me the Book of Order last January and told me to call "pastor" and reconcile with him was right. I'm going to think about that. Seriously. I agree: "pastor" and I should make up, pronto. I will admit my lack of love towards him, apologize to him and his family for all the horrible things I've done to them - and "all we need is love."

I don't know the situation mary ... I know resentments are unhealthy and unhelpful ... but, sometimes, reconciliation is not possible or even safe for some. There are people in my past that I simply stay away from ... as far away as possible actually. Not because I am afraid of them (although at times I might be) or because I am angry at them... but because they are sick people that need recovery and they are not safe. There is a lot that I don't understand. My natural tendency would be to try to make sure I am okay with everyone and that everyone was okay with me...

Sometimes, we have to give ourselves the time and space to just heal ... Sometimes, attempting to make things better only makes them worse ... Books often have not been enough of a help and support for me to navigate through recovery... I am not familiar with the book you are talking about. But any simple instruction connected to so much pain and damage would be suspect to me. As we heal and grow, things become a little clearer and slowly ... we find a path ... little by little to become whole...

The fault is obviously on my side.

Thanks for the salient points you made, Learning to Trust. I will certainly take them to heart and run with them...

Run -- I can certainly do that!

Love in our Lord Jesus Christ to all,

mary

warmly... marym/learning to trust

Willow

10-27-2007, 02:36 PM

I have dearly loved ones down there in S. Cal. right now, so it challenges me towards compassion of all the living beings out there.

Turtle... I was wondering if your loved ones suffered any losses? Are they safe and back in their homes?

Turtle

10-27-2007, 02:59 PM

Turtle... I was wondering if your loved ones suffered any losses? Are they safe and back in their homes?

They're fine, not evacuated YET. the other set is OK too. Cars are backed into driveways, nose out, ready to run if needed.
(((((Amy)))))) thanks for asking.

Jerry

10-27-2007, 09:38 PM

Maybe my friend who sent me the Book of Order last January and told me to call "pastor" and reconcile with him was right.

Dear Mary,,,,
Hold the phone here !!! I think your friend has some errors on her "Hard Drive" the most severe one being that "Forgiveness = Reconciliation".....If forgiveness means that you resolve the abuse within yourself allowing you to move on without constant angst in your spirit,,,,,then of course for your own good work that out.....But I know some of the details of your abuse,and you would be insane to reconcile with that lowlife "SOB",,,,pardon my "French" :eek: One of the most important things taught to us by our Savior is to be Wise as serpents and harmless as Doves.....You would be a fool to "Reconcile" with that guy,,,,,,,and God doesn't think much of "fools"

Love Jerry

Anna Marta

10-28-2007, 02:37 AM

My Dearest Mary,

I am seeing "strong emotions" sticking out all over both your posts.

You are still justifiably hurt and angry at the religious nut who still thinks he is a pastor :mad: that abused you! AND you know very well that forgivness has nothing to do with how you feel just that you acknowledge to God that you "want to forgive" but have to leave the feelings and reality of it up to HIM.

As Jerry so aptly put it, stay clear of the SOB and let God deal with him in His own time. And deal He will!

Also, hearing your underlying disappointment with the latest church fiasco you were privy to. It has been a hard haul for you.

Next, I am sensing your pain about being so sick and hurting for such a long time having to live your life for the most part under this darn death sentence. It takes its' toll dear friend,,, it takes its' toll.

Your humility and love is evident in your response to "LTT" - you are blowing off steam, the valve needs to let off sometimes before one bursts.

When I was angry after my former spouses repeated infidelities, I looked for scriptures that were like - judgment to the 10th generation kind of retribution! So I understand the desire to try to find some biblical texts to illustrate rage. It was at those times that I felt such a kinship to David in the psalms when he expressed his anger at God's enemies, but David goes on to extol God's greatness. Surprisingly David eventually became an enemy of God himself badly needing God's forgiveness and mercy. After paying the ultimate price even though he prayed all night, the moment he realized that his prayer was not answered the way he wanted he got up and praised God... and went on with his life to become "the man after God's own heart."

Keep up the good fight Mary and finish it to the end when you will surely hear the words we all yearn to hear some day "Well done good and faithful servant, enter into my rest."

Love
Anna Marta

Anna Marta

10-28-2007, 02:43 AM

Dear Learning to Trust,

I want to commend you on your honest and loving response to Mary's painful post.

I too know the type/delete/type/delete scenario out of fear and concern for being the cause of a forum flare or problem. I have managed to write myself into some corners several times.

Thank you for your sensitivity, humility and care.

Shalom
Anna Marta

Willow

10-28-2007, 05:55 AM

Dear Mary... I know it's already been said, But I just wanted to add my AMEN to the thought that you should NOT (please DON'T) re-open conversation with that abusive man dressed like a pastor! Now THAT'S a scarey Halloween costume!

mary

10-28-2007, 12:43 PM

Dearest ones (all of you!!!!),

You all understand! Thank you so much for your patience, kindness, tolerance and acceptance... I've had a very rough few days, weeks, actually. I'm sorry that it showed to the extent that it did.

I have been plagued by horrible, graphic nightmares about "pastor" lately and I don't know why. Only my therapist knows the most material details of what "pastor" did to/forced on me, and even he doesn't know absolutely everything. Too embarrassing. Bottom line: I'm a Catholic schoolgirl at heart and I will never be anything else. I can't live with the guilt that I still have for the pain that was caused to his wife. I've made precisely no progress in dealing with it. I didn't leave when "the problem" first manifested itself, and for that, I am culpable. She did get some measure of revenge on me: she slandered me terribly and enlisted others to assist her in doing it. Well, did I not have it coming? I think I did.

I admit: I was extremely triggered. I even asked to be removed from the forum again - and was, with the utmost in Christian kindness and charity, turned down. :) :) :) I wanted the administrators to put a muzzle on me that I didn't feel able to put on myself - but now, with your posts and with their kindness, I feel able to do that now.

As to Scripture, well, I confess to being absolutely dotty about the psalms. I read them every day, several times a day. They often refer to God's justice, the fact that we're not to love what He hates, etc. Maybe I'm reading them wrong, but I've never sat under the preaching of a decent, Godly, permanent preacher in all 13 years that I've been saved and that may account for some of my misreading of them, if that's what I'm doing.

You're right, AM, about "death sentences" taking their toll. On Friday, I received a letter in which I was told that as of Jan. 1, Blue Cross is dropping me. This is not good... Even though my hematologist has told me that I'm going to be given "palliative care only" as the myelodyplasia and/or the aplastic anemia advances, uh, the thought of being without BC is pretty upsetting. Whatever. I must trust in the Lord for everything, and this certainly emphasizes that. He is my portion; He's all I need... And He will provide.

Want to hear a happy story, though? Yesterday, my husband and I met again, for the first time since our son was born (decades ago!), the doctor who'd performed the C-section that I had originally been given no chance of surviving. This doctor and I had developed a special rapport during the month that I was in the hospital... After he delivered our son, he went out to the waiting room where my husband, mother and grandmother were, stated to my husband, "You have a healthy son..." and then sank to his knees on the floor in happy tears as he told them that I was (unbelievably) still alive. :o Well, after I was discharged, I never saw him again (as the university hospital randomized me off to another OB/GYN "team"). Lately, though, "something" had been telling me to pray for him - and I also Googled him. I found him in CA. I called his office, spoke with him eventually and he told me he'd be in MI this weekend for his med school class reunion. He came over to our home yesterday -- and we hugged and hugged! He's fought his own really rough cancer battle lately (I believe the Lord was inspiring me to pray for him) and we talked about that at length... We talked about how we're both kind of "on death row" - but I said, "Well, yeah, but I'm on death row in Texas!" :D :D :D (I need to be able to laugh!) We took pictures; he looked at pictures of "El Babe-O," as he had called our son in those days. Our son, irritatingly enough, had "forgotten" about this proposed meeting and didn't show up. :mad: I was more than a little angry at him for that yesterday.) Anyway, the doctor and I agreed to keep in touch... I finally got to thank him properly for every ounce of sheer expertise, and literal sweat and tears, that he had expended on our behalf that weekend so long ago. I said, "How ever did you do that?" He replied, "That's what I went into medicine for." What a beautiful man... I pray that he will get to know his Messiah, the One Who came to his people, the Jews, first... (Romans 1:16! - :) )

Anyway, I don't want to take up any more of your time, if you've read this far; I just want to thank every single one of you who reached out to Learning to Trust, and to me, with such incredible measures of Christian kindness, gentleness, mercy and understanding and love. May the Lord give each of you a special portion of His grace this week, and may you never feel a moment of absence from His side or from His indwelling Holy Spirit.

Love to all and to each of you in our Lord Jesus Christ,

mary

Elisabeth

10-28-2007, 08:04 PM

Mary,
This is the place where you can allow your pain and anger, and how rough things have been, to show!
I don't think you have any culpability. You didn't do anything to his wife; he did. And although you didn't leave right away, victims of spiritual abuse almost never do. In my case, I didn't know what to think, what to do. And you couldn't have known at first that his behavior would escalate, and shame, which doesn't belong on the victim, often keeps the victim in place. When you leave, people ask questions, you get talked about, and lied about. It's only normal to want to delay that as long as possible. :(

Anna Marta

10-29-2007, 02:45 AM

Thinking and thinking...

Abuse is horrible (I wish I had a better/stronger word) in the insidious ways it effects everyone concerned. In my mind I see it like a poisonous snake slithering through the grass of my life in the guise of an adorable puppy dog romping around that I wanted to play around with. (The Evil One was described as an angel of light, yes?)

It seems like everybody who is touched by an abuser gets hurt in one way or another, but for me, the worst is the on-going sense of judging myself guilty and not being able to get rid of the feelings associated with that judgment!

The pain of allowing myself to deal with the deeper issues inside myself have been some of the worst. I am a people person and have nearly always had self-esteem problems, so I was a great set up for an abuser to enter my way too soft boundary lines. The truth is that I liked the attention I received and how it made me feel. I felt worthwhile and special and I wanted to believe in the abuser and the whole damn abusive system/milieu because for a long time I liked it!

I find this declaration about myself to be shameful and embarressing even now. When I look back it is an insult to my intelligence and character that I permitted myself to be "so taken-in" ! I still find these words HARD to write and admit.

Intellectually it all makes sense to me because I like to intellectualize things that get too close emotionally. BUT the reality is that I WAS in way over my head. I console myself with the fact that smarter and way more educated people than me have been fooled and hurt in exactly the same way.

What I think I am in process of doing right now is after admitting the above, I am attempting to cut out the diseased part and develop the healthy parts through building them up.

We were together last night w/ another couple who left the same church reviewing where each of us is now. The other gal is struggling with an on going relationship from there and what to do. I had already wrote this person off my acquaintance list and was surprised at much easier it is for me now to cut off people and relationships that sap energy or endanger my emotional health and healing without the old accompanying sense of guilt. But then, I am a lot older and maybe that makes a difference, I don't know.

Just some thoughts from today.
Anna Marta

Jerry

10-29-2007, 05:26 AM

I can't live with the guilt that I still have for the pain that was caused to his wife. I've made precisely no progress in dealing with it.

Dear Mary,,,,
You have made no progress because your not looking for the simple answer ;) We can not deal with guilt that we don't own....This is "Pastors" guilt to deal with,,,,,,not yours. You are feeling "Compassion" for Pastors wife,and mistaking it for guilt......Because you are kind and loving that compassion is your cross to bare so to speek....You see compassion isn't "Dealt" with.Compassion is something we either have or we don't..."Compassion" is that shiny part of your spirit that reflects God ;)

Love Jerry

mary

10-29-2007, 07:36 AM

Elisabeth, thank you... I know you and I went through similar experiences. Truth be told, I didn't see how I was going to get out of the situation, for it would have required "explanations." And "pastor" was telling me, "You have nowhere else to go. You can't go anywhere that your husband would take you. You wouldn't be able to stand it. Let him leave this church, and you stay here with me." I know that sound nuts now, but I believed it for a long time. Like you, I thought that I was giving him clear enough "back off" signals, but this man is a European and a narcissist to boot and he never picked up on even one of my signals. He just kept coming. And his wife (typically) laid all the blame on me.

Anna Marta -- Oh my! What can I say? You have written arguably your most eloquent post yet here, and that's "going some!" Your explanation and expose of what you went through is superb and I am in awe of it! May God continue to bless you richly; may you see the effects of Philippians 1:6 on a daily basis in your life and may He heal you of all of your physical maladies! You are truly running a good race here on earth, and you are a blessing and a half!

Jerry, yes, you're right... The Catholic schoolgirl in me can't forgive herself. And I don't understand people who have no compassion for others. I suppose you'd have to make a serious study of evil itself in order to get a handle on it. Maybe two years is too short a time to accept this. "Pastor's" wife had no compassion for me. She saw me as the only cause of her husband's attentions... I heard something on Christian radio the other day about husbands who cheat: "no wife can build a fence high enough that her husband can't jump over, if he wants to." That's true. He doesn't have me anymore, but he probably has someone else by now. I still feel sorry for her. If the Lord has chosen me to reflect "compassion" for people like "pastor's wife, I have only Him to thank for that.

May God bless everyone here! :)

Love to all in our Lord Jesus Christ,

mary

Elisabeth

10-29-2007, 07:45 AM

Realize, also, Mary, that the pastor's wife blames you because the truth is too horrible for her to face. It's not you personally; she just can't face the fact her husband is a skirt chasing louse. Of course, that gives her no reason to abuse you.

Jerry

10-29-2007, 08:22 AM

[COLOR=navy][B]Jerry, yes, you're right... The Catholic schoolgirl in me can't forgive herself.

Mary,,,Mary,,,Mary,,,,You are just not going to make this easy are you?? You have nothing to forgive to yourself,,,,your not the offender here.I am going to keep "Hammering" that at you until you finally get it!!!!!!!,,,,,,,,,it's a tough job,,,,but somebody has to do it :D

Love Jerry

mary

10-29-2007, 09:02 AM

Okay, okay, Elisabeth and Jerry: I'm a hard case! :D Elisabeth, you're right... She married him; she's stuck with him for whatever he is. I'd sure hate to be walking in her 3" heels, which she wears in order to make herself roughly a foot taller than her husband... :confused: :rolleyes: Sick situation, no matter how you size it up (pun intended). I need to erase my tapes...

Jerry, if you want the job, you've got it! Hammer away if you've got the time... ;) ;) ;) :p :p :p :)

Love,

mary