Is this abuse?

[Beautiful_Dreamer]

I have read about Spiritual Abuse and I think what I dealt with could fall in that category, but the thing is it was not done by a church or body of believers but was done by a single person or family.

In a nutshell, my ex and his family subscribe to many of the ideas of the Word of Faith movement. They follow Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, etc. and have a great church but get a lot of their theology from TBN. They believe that if you just pray right or believe right or have enough faith or whatever, that you will be healed of any sickness and that you will be prospered and have your problems alleviated. Conversely, if you *do* stay sick or stay poor or depressed or whatever, then it is because you didn't believe right or have enough faith.

I have a form of bipolar disorder. I was first diagnosed four years ago but at that time I was basically convinced by my ex that I should forgo the medication in favor of being 'healed by God' supernaturally. I wanted to believe this, because I had been on antidepressants for a while and certainly did not enjoy depression. I went off of them for about three months and went to just the talk therapy (he didn't care for this either since it wasn't a Christian counselor, but oh well), but I ended up having to go back on the medication. He was not happy about this at all and basically told me that I was sinning and showing a lack of faith by taking medicine and going to the doctor. His family believed this to an extent as well...and, yes, they did say the same things about purely physical illnesses. The idea that God could or would use a doctor or medicine to heal someone rather than purely supernatural means escaped them entirely, as did the whole book of Job apparently:) If I had had a child with my ex, I have no problem believing that if she had a similar issue to me or had a physical illness that he would fight me about taking her to the doctor if not bar her altogether. I will be damned if I am going to let a child of mine be made to feel as though her father and God do not love her because she has an illness.

My ex also told me that my mother died of her cancer rather than being healed on this planet because she 'believed differently' about prayer. This was especially cruel and ignorant in my opinion, because I know for a fact that she believed in the power of prayer. I don't think he meant to be mean but, well, how could he possibly think this would help?

I was told that I had a 'demon' or 'spirit' rather than a disorder, but it seemed that once I rejected this idea or this diagnosis was made, all compassion went out the window. I understand that clinical depression is a hard thing to understand if you have not been there, but this was a bit much. I was told that I was not close enough to God or didnt have enough faith or whatever and I do believe God can heal and being close to Him helps but I don't see Him as a quick fix like that. I don't think a relationship with God should be about what *you* can get out of it, the way they seemed to think.

And of course only non-denominational/Baptists/Pentecostal Republicans are true Christians, everything in the Bible must be taken completely literally, gay people are evil, Catholics are going to hell, etc. The same old same old. What is sadly ironic is that the ones who supported me and basically showed Christlike love to me are those very people-christians from other groups, Democrats, gays, Catholics, etc.

Would you all call this a form of abuse? I do think these are sincere believers and meant no harm, but I just feel that the lines of belief they have on this are dangerous and the judgement I felt hurt my walk with God to the point that I nearly turned away entirely. I have considered going into the ministry simply so that I can help people to see the truth about Jesus and not have to go through what I did.

[Savedbygrace]

Conversely, if you *do* stay sick or stay poor or depressed or whatever, then it is because you didn't believe right or have enough faith.

I was first diagnosed four years ago but at that time I was basically convinced by my ex that I should forgo the medication in favor of being 'healed by God' supernaturally.

(he didn't care for this either since it wasn't a Christian counselor, but oh well),

My ex also told me that my mother died of her cancer rather than being healed on this planet because she 'believed differently' about prayer.

I was told that I had a 'demon' or 'spirit' rather than a disorder, but it seemed that once I rejected this idea or this diagnosis was made, all compassion went out the window.

And of course only non-denominational/Baptists/Pentecostal Republicans are true Christians, everything in the Bible must be taken completely literally, gay people are evil, Catholics are going to hell, etc.

Would you all call this a form of abuse?

Beautiful Dreamer,

To answer your above question, yes, I would call all of this a form of abuse. I pulled out the stements in your post that most jumped out at me as abusive. Your ex and family seem to be more closely related to the pharisee than the Gay Democratic Catholics. It isn't a title, or a denomination, or the amount ot faith we have, or our personal giftedness in prayer that saves us...it is Jesus that saves us. And what did Jesus stand for? You know the answer, I can tell you do! Jesus stood for love and compassion.

While my answer is an emphatic YES, what you endured was spiritual abuse, the good news is that you are dealing with it. You have the sense to know it was wrong. You have the sense to come here, to a place of healing, were others can help you, and you can help others while we all try to recover and relearn what the love of Christ is all about.

I am so glad you shared. You have come to a good place here. KNOW that it is not a sign of weakness to take medication. It is not a lack of faith to seek a doctor. Follow your good judgement, and continue to seek the professional help you need for your medical condition. Feel free to share when you are comfortable, and know you will not be judged here. Welcome,

Trish

[Beautiful_Dreamer]

Thank you, trish. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that God had a purpose for making me the way that I am. I know that He doesn't exactly enjoy seeing His children suffer, but I understand that there is a reason for everything that happens and even though I might not know that reason this side of heaven, there *is* one. My mother had similar issues with depression and she was a tremendous resource and help to my sister and I in a way that I do not know she could have been otherwise. There are some problems that are very difficult to understand if one does not have them themselves. I certainly cannot *feel* that this is a blessing sometimes but deep down I know that it is because it has helped me to understand and be more compassionate to other people.

I told the pastor of the church I have been attending here what my ex and his family said about healing and not going to doctors and he *laughed*. Actually *laughed*. It was far from the first time he has heard this but when you think of St. Paul and Job and other faithful people in the Bible who had calamities but were not healed from them instantly (or, well, Jesus-He asked for the cup to pass), then you can see why he would find their line of reasoning somewhat strange.

I have a lot of confusion about what is of God and what is of man sometimes...some doctrines I hear just do not sit right or seem overly complicated. But I know that the core of all of it is (or should be) Jesus...Do you have similar confusion?

This might sound mean and I don't mean to offend but it will be a long time before I go to another non-denominational church because while their church was good, I think it would help me tremendously to be able to know what a church or group believes before getting involved. When many people hear my story they think I am talking about the Christian Scientists, but the CS are actually better because with them you *know* what they believe and what you are getting into. I think the biggest issue is that they got most of their stuff from TBN and, not to be rude, but just because a minister tells you what you want to hear does not make it true and just because a minister is on television doesn't mean he is any better than the one in the church down the road...

[Jerry]

How so very lucky and blessed You are that your ex,is an ex.I hope that your further blessed,that this church you speek of is the church you used to attend.They truly believe they are Christians.What they are is decieved children of a "Lessor God".
Love Jerry WELCOME

P.S.I have never been tempted to trust someone with "Huge Purple Hair" :eek: :D

[Janice]

Sounds like abuse to me.

I am a bi-polar Christian also. I was diagnosed only a yr. ago but, I knew it years before I was diagnosed and went on meds. I've been on meds for the last year and there is no way, no how, anyone is going to convince me to go off of them!!

I firmly believe in the power of prayer but, I see absolutely NOTHING WRONG with taking meds while you're waiting for your miracle.

I just got over a 2 month back problem and was in extreme pain. Was I supposed to not take pain meds and just stay in pain??? I don't think God would want it thay way.

I believe while He may not have created doctors "as such", that He provided these folks with the knowledge and perseverence to go through their schooling to become doctors. There are many Christian doctors!

Yes, the Bible is true. Yes, it is through God's stripes that we are healed. Yes, our Lord DOES answer prayer but, it is all in His timing not ours.

I had a very hard time believing in God's healing the last few years. (most recently when at 45 yr. old friend of mine died of cancer in 2002)
I prayed and prayed and prayed, believing for her healing and she died anyway!

I didn't understand. How, if I "prayed with faith, believing" (and I DID), how come she still died? I guess I will never know that answer until I get to heaven and find out from my Lord, myself. :D

God's thoughts are NOT our thoughts and His ways are NOT our ways. Maybe taking her to heaven was HIS way of healing her.

Anyway, (now that I've rambled), the point I'm trying to make is that I see absolutely nothing wrong with staying on your meds. If they're working then stay on them!

If and when the Lord CHOOSES to heal you, He will let you know and will also let you know when and if you should go off you meds.

Spend time with Him and listen ONLY to HIM. Not the rest of the people. ;)

[Beautiful_Dreamer]

I prayed and prayed about my mother too and then she died...and it upset me but then again I thought that she is going to be in a place where she will be with God and never suffer again...and if that is not healing then I don't know what is. I still miss her though.

I am getting married in a few weeks to a man who is Christian and much, much more stable. I really have no patience at all for the legalistic stuff and it bothers me when I know of people who have been basically chased from Christ by people like my ex. I don't normally believe in revenge at all but I must admit it felt rather good to tell my ex where he can put his snake oil and his beliefs.

It is really easy to believe that there is a quick and easy answer for everything when you have Mommy and Daddy to shelter you and take care of everything for you and you have never really had to deal with death or anything like that...

[Reg]

I have a form of bipolar disorder. I was first diagnosed four years ago but at that time I was basically convinced by my ex that I should forgo the medication in favor of being 'healed by God' supernaturally. I wanted to believe this, because I had been on antidepressants for a while and certainly did not enjoy depression. I went off of them for about three months and went to just the talk therapy (he didn't care for this either since it wasn't a Christian counselor, but oh well), but I ended up having to go back on the medication........

Would you all call this a form of abuse? I do think these are sincere believers and meant no harm, but I just feel that the lines of belief they have on this are dangerous and the judgement I felt hurt my walk with God to the point that I nearly turned away entirely. I have considered going into the ministry simply so that I can help people to see the truth about Jesus and not have to go through what I did.

Hi Beautiful_Dreamer,

Generally agree with Janice. Stay on the meds. I have a good friend in my present church who exited the same abusive church as I did several years ago. He went through the same thing as you did and wasn't diagnosed as bi-polar until he exited and now is taking Lithuim and that was basically all he needed to deal with his problem. It was simply a chemical imbalance in the brain that is now corrected with the correct medication. Sounds like your present problem.

Dr. Grant Mullen came to our church twice to do a seminar about depression and how to deal with it. BTW, he is a Christian and advocates medication for certain disorders such as yours. Here is a book he wrote that should answer all your questions and help alleviate your doubts. Here are some notes I made about it.

Why Do I Feel Down When My Faith Should Lift Me Up? Dr. Grant Mullen

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1852402466/qid=1103816707/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-4974989-4035867?v=glance&s=books

INTRODUCTION:

Grant Mullen explains how we can overcome depression, rejection, fear, and the harassment of Satan. The reader is helped to find self-acceptance and wholeness in Christ by embracing medical help, biblical truth and receiving the sovereign power of God in their life.

The Christian community (and society in general) has usually been reluctant to address emotional issues (and let me add - Spiritual Abuse ones also) since there has been such limited understanding of the nature of emotional (& spiritual) bondage. Those who have competence & experience in this area have often been shunned & marginalized by a skeptical church. They have been forced to become "Para church" organizations since established churches were too afraid to make this ministry a regular part of their program. As a result, the life-giving ministry of those involved in emotional (& spiritual healing) have only been available to those who sought for it - outside the church. ...... The church prefers not to discuss or think about emotional (spiritual abuse) issues since it doesn't understand the problems nor does it have any idea what to do about them. These issues are too uncomfortable to be discussed or addressed in church at home........

3 Building Blocks of Our Personality: INTELLIGENCE - WILL - EMOTIONS

Our success in work, family & in ministry is dependent on our emotional (spiritual) healthwhether we admit it or not. Your thoughts are really the rudders of your life. The spiritual forces that controls your life, will control your thoughts.

Well meaning Christians have created a climate of guilt, condemnation & shame which perverts Christians from admitting they need help for emotional, problems & illness, etc.

CHAPTER ONE

You Mean I'm Not Going Crazy


.....Now we are dealing with problems of blurred thinking, which are invisible to the observer. Even the sufferer doesn't know that they are not thinking as clearly as he should be. The victim is so accustomed to this disability that he doesn't know he has a problem....... It seems to me, though this is merely from personal observation, that there is a higher percentage of depressed people in evangelic churches than in the general population.

Pg. 148.... We must never fight people, only the forces that make people behave the way they do. Our authority is not over people, it is over Satan & his kingdom. We must NEVER use our authority to control or dominate people.

Pg. 149.... Another weapon is the Word of God which is the truth that breaks the power of Satan's lies. Satan hates the truth and flees from it. ...... Jesus' blood carries authority & strikes terror into demons.

Prayer is the most powerful & effective force to push Satan back from his plan to control earth. He is already defeated and he knows it.

Chapter 18 - The Quest For Peace

Pg. 169.... What is peace? It is more than just the absence of war or interpersonal conflict. Peace to many of us is a sense of survival, that we are keeping everything under control .... this is not peace at all. It is CONTROL, a dangerous defense mechanism that we develop to cope with our lack of peace. God does not want you to confuse peace & control. To be at peace is to be relaxed, content & able to concentrate, having a clear mind, in control of your thoughts & behaviour coping with circumstances, free from anxiety & with complete confidence in God's love, closeness & care for you.............

Why is peace so hard to find? ...... Many are led into false (and deceptive churches) religions that promise peace but offer emptiness or the bondage of demonic attachment...........

These counterfeits are all dead-end streets designed to trap, confuse & exhaust the victim so he gives up looking for peace & falls into hopelessness.

Pg 176 bottom .....A radiant peace........more.......

Pg 181 ..... I was forced to face my own negative emotions & wounds...... My life had become so busy and unsatisfying since I, like so many others had been caught up in THE PERFORMANCE TRAP where I needed to attract the approval of others through my performance. I felt that I could only feel good about myself through overwhelming busyness. This very common trap has been thoroughly described in Robert McGee's excellent book, "The Search for Significance".

Pg 186 ..... Our Love Deficit.
........ Satan takes advantage of our quest for love........to... We will be emotionally free & healed to the degree we know that we are loved.

Pg 189 ..... If for example, we have had a broken of damaging relationship with a father, not only will we have difficulty trusting human authority figures, but we will assume that God is untrustworthy & damaging as a parent.....etc......


I have more notes but I think you get the picture. There are so many parallels Dr. Mullen addresses that are the same with the victims of Spiritual Abuse. I'm sure he understands it very well yet never mentions it once. It is a very touchy subject, especially within the walls of a church.

[Beautiful_Dreamer]

Thanks Reg! I love your avatar and I have some grey hairs too...even though I am only 27, I think I have more grey hairs than some people twice my age... :)

I am so happy to find this forum...I am very active on another online forum and I have 'met' many people who have had experiences like ours and do not seem interested in much else other than tearing down Christians and our faith. I can understand if they are speaking from pain because I was similar for a while there, but there comes a time when we have to put that aside to get on with healing. That, and some people I think were just saying things to upset other people and see what sort of reaction they can get. Rather childish, in my opinion. It is nice to be here and see the support you all are willing to give a total stranger.

Have any of you been active or known of any sort of program or effort to help victims of spiritual abuse (other than this one)? Are any of you at a point where you can trust churches again and what changes have you had to make? I for one am sticking to the mainline churches so that I can check out what they believe more easily before I get involved. I also tend to lean toward churches that have authority other than just the pastor or congregation so that there is someone else to keep the people accountable-that way they can't just teach any old heresy they want as long as the people like it. What about you all?

[Jerry]

Dear Dreamer,,,
Thanks for the PM about my avatar,,,,yah I thought that kid is pretty cool myself :D I kinda look like that when I read about some of these "Pastors".Just a word of caution here.Main stream churchs are not without abusive tendancys.All,and I mean all,churchs put the perpetuation of their particular brand of Christianity first and Gods truth second,of course they never admit that ;) My advice would be for you not to believe what this man or any other man says.Get yourself a King James Bible,a Strongs Exhaustive Concordance,and a Smiths Bible Dictionary and study for yourself what you don't currently understand.Then YOU decide what YOU believe.Use the Church for what it's for,Worship and Fellowship.Don't be one of the "Lemmings" ;)
Love Jerry

[Willow]

I must agree with Jerry here. I left an abusive church to go work for a mainline christian Sunday School Board and publisher. I was appalled to find the same psychodynamics happening in the headquarters of a mainline denomination. I thought I would be going into a safer environment. Instead, it chewed me up and spit me out within 6 months. I had a hard time getting back on my feet again and getting a different job. I'm so glad I did get up though... the job I found was full of grace in the last place I expected to find it. A large university medical center. They are the BEST to work for and I feel part of their community.

Welcome to the forum!
Willow

[Ontheroad]

Beautiful Dreamer,

I am so sorry for what you were put through in the name of "faith". It makes me so angry on your behalf that others would dare to put blame on you for a medical condition. GRRRRR!

I love your username, by the way. May the Lord show you more and more in your heart how beautiful you are to Him- just the way you are.

[ex-shep]

Have any of you been active or known of any sort of program or effort to help victims of spiritual abuse (other than this one)? Are any of you at a point where you can trust churches again and what changes have you had to make? I for one am sticking to the mainline churches so that I can check out what they believe more easily before I get involved. QUOTE]


Good question. I have really had to shop around for a church. Lighthouses for those spiritually abused are far and few in between. In person support can be found at RE-FOCUS meetings and AFF conferences. I have found them worth saving money and time traveled.

The internet has been a blessing for those spiritually abused. Help is now a mouse click away. In person is still a challenge.