New Here and being careful [Archive] - Christian Recovery Forums

Tabitha

09-01-2007, 05:17 AM

Hello

I am new here and I want to introduce myself. I am an older person who has woken up to what was happening in my church. It is hard to leave if you are older and all your friends were there. I feel lonely and scared and hope some of my friends will soon leave too.

I am still a Christian and know that God loves me and the bible is still my source for my faith and comfort and hope. I came here because it says "Christian" and that is still what I am. I don't go to church right now and probably will be careful in time to come.

I have been reading other forums trying to decide where I would be most comfortable and I think this is probably the best place for me.

On other sites it seems that they are no longer believers or that they don't like people who are still Christians and want to talk about their faith. There is one place that seems to be talking about this forum and the people on it. Just about everything I read was about this place. I wonder if you are aware that the same people who are here go there too. They come here to read what you write and then go there and talk about it. It also looks like they plant things here just to see what you will say and do.

Tabitha

Jerry

09-01-2007, 05:33 AM

Welcome Tabitha,,, :D

hornblower

09-01-2007, 06:56 AM

Hi tabitha, yes its shocking to realise that churches are full of............sinners............shocking......... .and not only sinners but persecuters of 'the way'........I say way hoping that isnt a religious term but you know what Ill bet it is I dont know.........I havent been to church in so long its rediculous.
So now Im with a stevens minister that preaches when she can get a word in and she often manages to get so many words in Im wondering who ministers who but then.........duh I know its me because I dont wear a name tag and show it off in front of the whole world when Im with me??????????
So then I have that and then I also had a huge dose of charismania the other day too.
The scarey dreams of the end of my world as I know it.........Im left praying and hopoing my grandsons make it through the coming terrorists attack and a long sermon on what not to eat or drink and how we are being poisoned..........and of course when Im with 'these people' i always get a real good dose of being careful about every word that comes out of my mouth being sure that everything I say will bring only life and not death.
That particular day there was a lady there who listened to all of us and then said she had gone to the women of faith meeting.........I asked her how that went I had been hearing so many good things about it............she said there was a lady there that said that God told her to "shut up sit down and be still".
Sounds pretty good to me.
None of us know anything anyway.
Im with you........I pick up that bible when I can and seek Him when I am able, more like probably when 'He' can get through to me. Im believing good things will come to me when I end up gone from here......Im in that hope stage the word talks about.
Welcome here.
I miss church and I dont, its just a building anyway really. I wish we could just all sit down and be still and shut up........we might begin to hear Him again? You think?
Its mighty hard to forgive these people and pray for them isnt it?:confused:

Willow

09-01-2007, 08:04 AM

Dear Tabitha,

Welcome here. I am one of those who post both here and on the other forum you mention. There is no such thing as planting messages going on... but venting about what goes on here takes place. I think I am the one you are talking about planting a message. What I did was took an article that Voyager wrote and posted it here without saying he wrote it. Not as a "plant"... but as a hope for less livid dialogue about the topic of positive thinking. It turned out not to be the best thing to do as one of the people on the other forum saw it the same way you did. I didn't mean it as a "trap" in any sense. I hope that clears the air. I still like it here and don't really want to leave...

Sincerely,
Amy

SpinningHead

09-01-2007, 08:11 AM

Hi Tabitha,

You and your faith are most welcome here! It's awesome that you've recognized what was happening in your church does not define your relationship with God. Too many times we associate or define our faith by our church experience and when that goes kaput, we throw our faith out with the bathwater.

mary

09-01-2007, 09:25 AM

Welcome, Tabitha! :) :) :)

I hope we meet your expectations for a "safe place" to land. We've all been through the experience of thinking that we had a "good church" to attend, only to find out that "said church" was not safe at all. We try to minister to each other, enjoy fellowship and recover from our hurts as we look for other, this time safe, congregations to attend and belong to.

We also seek to worship the only truly 100% trustworthy Person there is, the Lord Jesus Christ! :)

Share as you wish to; no one will press you for details or anything.

We're glad you're here.

mary

Voyager

09-01-2007, 10:55 AM

Usually new members discuss the abuse that brought them to this forum and don't care about the religious affiliations of other forum members. They don't usually bring up the fact that people have fled this forum due to find a safer place due to the unrestrained character assaults that are allowed here. The forum you are referring to is not "non-Christian" in any way. It is "non-abusive". Christians are welcomed there, and the good thing about that forum is that no one will be allowed to assault their beliefs or slander their character.

I have not seen even one person bash any Christians on the other forum that you are referring to. If that were happening, the posts would be removed due to the guidelines against attacking the religious beliefs of others.

I've seen people register and re-register multiple usernames here whenever they get disgruntled about someone on the forum doing something they don't like. Then they post something about a recent forum dispute instead of their own issues, all the while posing as a "newbie". I'm not saying that is the case here, but when I see posts like this right after someone got irked for this forum allowing people with "non-Christian" attitudes on the forum and some of those people fleeing to the "other" forum to keep from having their beliefs attacked, one has to wonder.

P.S. - You said, "Just about everything I read was about this place." That is incorrect. Over 99% of the posts on the "other" forum have nothing to do with this forum. They are just people discussing their own issues relating to spiritual abuse - without having to worry about being abused again for sharing their opinions.

:rolleyes:

Voyager

09-01-2007, 11:14 AM

The ironic thing is that the person who started this thread had to know that people were fleeing this forum to join a safer forum. They say that they are "new" and that "There is one place that seems to be talking about this forum and the people on it." That is not something that a newbie would post. How would they even know people on the "other" forum were referring to this forum unless they had been a member of it? No one has ever even mentioned that website's name on the "other" forum.

:rolleyes:

Willow

09-01-2007, 11:18 AM

Voyager

09-01-2007, 11:20 AM

In conclusion, no one would be fleeing this forum if there wasn't a reason. I've waited since 2001 for someone to come on here and stop people from abusing and attacking each other's beliefs, and it has never happened. I guess that is fine for some people, but others simply don't want to be spiritually abused anymore. If you flee the abuse only to receive more of the same in "recovery", what do you do then? I lost count long ago of the number of people who fled this forum after having their beliefs and/or character assaulted with no one stepping in to stop it.

Recovery groups should be free from abuse. They should not allow members to attack one another. I don't know of any offline recovery groups that will allow such behavior. Since no one wanted to stop the abuse here, forum members were forced to create their own safe place. No one wanted to have to do that, but we waited for too long for someone to stop the abuse, and it never happened. Now we finally have a place where we can share our hearts without having to worry about being shamed or rididuled for it. That is something that many of us have waited many years for.

Fleeing abuse should not have to be an ongoing lifestyle. People who have fled spiritual abuse should not have to flee it again and again. They need a safe place where they can share their heart and their opinions without being told what they have to believe or think. We now have a place like that, and if someone wants to ridicule it, that's their prerogative. The bottom line is, if someone wants to flee from spiritual abuse and become a member of the "other" forum to find healing and recovery, they are welcome. If they want to continue to abuse others and attack the beliefs of fellow forum members, they are welcome to post on forums that will allow that. Obviously such forums exist.

:cool:

Jerry

09-01-2007, 11:30 AM

In conclusion, no one would be fleeing this forum if there wasn't a reason. I've waited since 2001 for someone to come on here and stop people from abusing and attacking each other's beliefs, and it has never happened. I guess that is fine for some people, but others simply don't want to be spiritually abused anymore. If you flee the abuse only to receive more of the same in "recovery", what do you do then? I lost count long ago of the number of people who fled this forum after having their beliefs and/or character assaulted with no one stepping in to stop it.

Recovery groups should be free from abuse. They should not allow members to attack one another. Since no one wanted to stop the abuse here, forum members were forced to create their own safe place. No one wanted to have to do that, but we waited too long. Now we finally have a place where we can share our hearts without having to worry about being shamed or rididuled for it. That is something that many of us have waited many years for.

Fleeing abuse should not have to be an ongoing lifestyle. People who have fled spiritual abuse should not have to flee it again and again. They need a safe place where they can share their heart and their opinions without being told what they have to believe or think. We now have a place like that, and if someone wants to ridicule it, that's their prerogative. The bottom line is, if someone wants to flee from spiritual abuse and become a member of the "other" forum to find healing and recovery, they are welcome. If they want to continue to abuse others and attack the beliefs of fellow forum members, they are welcome to post on forums that will allow that.

:cool:

Physician,,,,,heal thy self ;)

Willow

09-01-2007, 11:36 AM

at least we don't need 2 rooms in our forum anymore...

Voyager

09-01-2007, 11:38 AM

Physician,,,,,heal thy self ;)

Tell that to A.A. members, Weight Watchers members, and domestic abuse support group members. Fortunately, those groups have guidelines preventing group members from ridiculing and attacking the beliefs and characters of other group members. Why do they do this? Because they know that if they don't, people will leave and not come back. It's pretty simple to me.

You obviously think it is fine to allow forum members to attack each other. The philosophy is to "Let them experience what the real world is like." Others disagree with that philosophy. The "real world" doesn't have people attacking your beliefs on a regular basis. This only happens with people who have been abused with religion. That is why these people need a recovery group that is safe from such attacks. Then they can learn what the "real world" is like: Free from religious abuse.

If we could heal ourselves, there would be no need for recovery groups.

Peace out. My time here has come to a close. So long after seven years.

Take care!

:cool:

Jerry

09-01-2007, 01:41 PM

Tell that to A.A. members, Weight Watchers members, and domestic abuse support group members. Fortunately, those groups have guidelines preventing group members from ridiculing and attacking the beliefs and characters of other group members. Why do they do this? Because they know that if they don't, people will leave and not come back. It's pretty simple to me.

I fail to understand how someone can post on a Christian site a post devaluing Scripture,and not expect to instigate "rancor" form some of the other board members.....I find your posts about the Bible offensive,but in the interests of having an open board,I chose to leave your post intact.Was "Mags" post too strong????......In my opinion yes,,,,,but in the interests of having an open board,I chose to leave her post intact.....It's pretty simple to me also.......... ;)

butterfly

09-01-2007, 02:43 PM

Voyager

09-01-2007, 03:32 PM

I fail to understand how someone can post on a Christian site a post devaluing Scripture,and not expect to instigate "rancor" form some of the other board members.....I find your posts about the Bible offensive,but in the interests of having an open board,I chose to leave your post intact.Was "Mags" post too strong????......In my opinion yes,,,,,but in the interests of having an open board,I chose to leave her post intact.....It's pretty simple to me also.......... ;)

If this is a Christian site, than you need to spend more time converting these people into Christians. If this is a recovery site, then the focus should be on recovery - not on religion. How can you run a site for recovery from spiritual abuse and promote a specific religion at the same time? That would mean people who follow your pet religious doctrines would get preferential treatment. You say you are "offended" by me questioning things from the Bible that men twist and distort in order to manipulate people. If people can copy & paste the latest Bible sermons from their church here (which is offensive to me), why can't someone else post things that question their religious propoganda? Is questioning what we were taught in our abusive churches not an option here?

Anyway, I couldn't stop the abuse that happened at my former church, so I'd be a fool to think I can stop the same thing from happening here. That's why this will be the last thread I will reply to on this forum. I've found a recovery forum that is safe to post from the heart without getting attacked for my personal beliefs, and there is no one who is trying to promote a specific religion or denomination on the site. The focus is on recovery, and that's where the energy is spent as opposed to wasting energy getting into doctrinal debates that profit no one.

Take care.

:cool:

yeshua'smags

09-01-2007, 03:52 PM

So we are here to recover from Christianity?

mary

09-01-2007, 05:13 PM

So we are here to recover from Christianity?

I am totally "at sea" here.

I've been here for almost two years and I don't see any particular "religion" being pushed here. I have never, ever seen a denomination being touted here. (That's not allowed, is it?) The only thing I see being advanced here is Christianity. That's a relationship, not a religion per se. I'm no fundamentalist, myself; I will never be comfortable in a church that calls itself primarily fundamentalist. I don't want to say what I really am (everyone here who knows me already knows, anyway) and I wouldn't want to be accused of pushing a religion, denomination or doctrine. However, I will always stand up for the real Gospel of Jesus Christ. So shoot me.

I don't know what the other web site is. That's how stupid and "disconnected" I am, I guess.

Maggie, I think the post of yours that's been referenced here was just fine. If I were one of the administrators, I wouldn't have changed a word of it, nor would I have deleted it.

I don't consider I've ever been attacked here, nor do I see others being attacked. We have a problem with semantics here. To "attack" verbally is, according to Webster's New World College Dictionary, 2nd ed., "[2] to speak or write against, esp. with vigor; criticize, denounce, censure, etc." I don't see that being done here. I see vigorous discussions, but no personal attacks. Admittedly, I come from a career spent as a "hired gun" legal writer and I know how to "attack" someone with words - non-profane ones. I can also identify a verbal attack when I see one. In short, I simply don't see that happening here. The administrators are great, IMHO, and they don't let it happen. We pretty much police ourselves, anyway.

If you will permit an analogy: in the O. J. Simpson trial, the evidence "was what it was." It pointed to Simpson's guilt, so "the race card" was played. Result: an acquittal. Here, "the attack card" is played. Result: a demonization of anyone who won't acquiesce to an "all beliefs are valid as long as they're sincerely held" mindset.

It makes no sense to maintain and/or champion that worldview on a Christian abuse recovery forum.

To close: 2 Corinthians 2:14-16 applies here.

mary

Elisabeth

09-01-2007, 06:00 PM

This whole thread makes me wonder "What - what - what???" Voyager's post didn't insinuate that this site should be to recover from Christianity. The "other forum" is nothing this forum needs to be concerned about at all. There has been some things said there, true, but no names are mentioned, and most things said there have nothing to do with this forum. Most things are like here; things that are about spiritual abuse recovery. :(

Jerry

09-01-2007, 09:12 PM

If this is a Christian site, than you need to spend more time converting these people into Christians. If this is a recovery site, then the focus should be on recovery - not on religion. How can you run a site for recovery from spiritual abuse and promote a specific religion at the same time? That would mean people who follow your pet religious doctrines would get preferential treatment. You say you are "offended" by me questioning things from the Bible that men twist and distort in order to manipulate people. If people can copy & paste the latest Bible sermons from their church here (which is offensive to me), why can't someone else post things that question their religious propoganda? Is questioning what we were taught in our abusive churches not an option here?

Anyway, I couldn't stop the abuse that happened at my former church, so I'd be a fool to think I can stop the same thing from happening here. That's why this will be the last thread I will reply to on this forum. I've found a recovery forum that is safe to post from the heart without getting attacked for my personal beliefs, and there is no one who is trying to promote a specific religion or denomination on the site. The focus is on recovery, and that's where the energy is spent as opposed to wasting energy getting into doctrinal debates that profit no one.

Take care.

:cool:
So ,,,,, now is this your "Final Post" ????? Or should we look foreward to another ????????

Elisabeth

09-01-2007, 09:33 PM

The more I thought about it, and took both sides into consideration, I realized this thread is not what it seems. Be careful, Jerry, Maggie, Mary, Spinning Head, Hornblower. :( :(

yeshua'smags

09-01-2007, 09:51 PM

What does that mean?

Elisabeth

09-01-2007, 10:20 PM

What does that mean?

Sorry for being rather cryptic. I'm just not wanting to accuse anybody. I do think there is stuff in this thread that is possibly less than honest, possibly put here just to hurt. Don't take anything too seriously. :(

mary

09-02-2007, 11:23 AM

Sorry for being rather cryptic. I'm just not wanting to accuse anybody. I do think there is stuff in this thread that is possibly less than honest, possibly put here just to hurt. Don't take anything too seriously. :(

Isaiah 54:17; Matthew 10:28; 1 John 4:3-4.

There's nothing to be afraid of here.

Whatever... :cool:

Nobody here on this earth touches me to hurt me. No one can get there anymore: it's permanently sealed off. Thankfully, and by God's grace. And I refuse to intentionally or willfully hurt anyone else, so I will keep my verbal firepower on the rack and under lock and key.

Thanks for the warning and the idea to consider, though, Elisabeth.

mary

Janice

09-03-2007, 03:51 AM

Can't we all just get along?? :D

Anyone know the link to this "other forum"??

Janice

09-03-2007, 03:18 PM

Can't we all just get along?? :D

Anyone know the link to this "other forum"??

Never mind. I got my answer from a trusted friend and know all I need to know. Sheesh!

Reg

09-06-2007, 08:14 AM

The sheep can hear the voice of the Shepherd.

Thanks Jerry. :)

Zoe

09-07-2007, 09:06 AM

The sheep can hear the voice of the Shepherd.

Thanks Jerry. :)

Hi Reg. Hi Jerry.

One of the reasons I bowed out of discussions on this forum was because I knew that in the eyes of some posters here that I could no longer be seen as one of "the" sheep.

In the approximately 20 years of my conservative evangelical Christianity that was full of legalism and spiritual abuse I heard this phrase Reg quoted above ad nauseum. I can't tell you how many times it was used on fellow Christians. More wounding was done with that one phrase then all the others.

The phrase smacks of elitism and is very condescending. We forget it was used on most of us to control, manipulate and shame us.

I believe from my own personal journey that healing from spiritual abuse increases our ability to accept the diversity not only within the countless Christian denominations that exist but also those outside the Christian faith.

Elisabeth

09-07-2007, 09:30 AM

Hi Reg. Hi Jerry.

One of the reasons I bowed out of discussions on this forum was because I knew that in the eyes of some posters here that I could no longer be seen as one of "the" sheep.

In the approximately 20 years of my conservative evangelical Christianity that was full of legalism and spiritual abuse I heard this phrase Reg quoted above ad nauseum. I can't tell you how many times it was used on fellow Christians. More wounding was done with that one phrase then all the others.

The phrase smacks of elitism and is very condescending. We forget it was used on most of us to control, manipulate and shame us.

I believe from my own personal journey that healing from spiritual abuse increases our ability to accept the diversity not only within the countless Christian denominations that exist but also those outside the Christian faith.

Wow, Zoe! That phrase itself was never used against me, but I have heard that it was used against others in the forum. And yes, it is a trigger phrase.

If you can't be seen as one of the sheep in the eyes of some posters, it is probably their problem, not yours.

I don't know the particulars about your journey, I think this is the only post I read from you, but know that whatever your journey, you are not alone. :D

mary

09-07-2007, 11:47 AM

Dear Zoe, Elisabeth, Reg, Jerry, everyone - :),

It's despicable the way that false shepherds (ministers and elders, those with no church office, etc.) will take a passage of Scripture that our Savior meant to be comforting and to ensure to us that we are in God's family - and use it to browbeat others. They're the ones who can't hear the voice of the Shepherd! :mad:

On the Sunday after the pastor who abused me threw me out of the church (and with me, there went my husband and son, naturally, and another lady as well), he screamed from the pulpit at the few who were sitting there, "This church should be filled! And it's your fault that it's not!" Emphatically, unequivocally and irrefutably it was NOT the fault of anyone sitting there. His was and is not the voice that the Lord wants anyone to hear. He was not a "shepherd" through whom the Lord was ministering to anyone. Same thing can be said about each of your abusers. How dare they attempt to shame us, humiliate us and make us bow to them in all of their stinking, Christ-dishonoring, phony regalia? These falsefaces make me sick.

Zoe, may it be ever so tremendously far from me, at all times, to deem anyone as "not one of the sheep!" I never want any part of this, in thought or in deed! Dare I say that may this idea not enter this forum? I say this even though, earlier this week, I was dealt a crushing blow by someone I thought was "with us" regarding the new church. No, she implicitly told me, she's praying for it to fail and she wants no more to do with it. She will stay in the Catholic Church, she said. Therefore, should I ask myself, is she not one of the Lord's sheep? Will she never be my "sister in the Lord?" That's not for me to say. I'm deeply hurt by her admission, but it was an honest and sincere one (at last) and I simply told her that I wish her well. Her birthday is next week, and so I promptly went out and got her an especially nice card. We cannot do less for one who may be spending eternity with us, for did our Lord and Savior do less for us when we ourselves were His enemies? It's not for me to say who's a fellow sheep or who "shows signs" that they ever will be; that would be sinful presumption. It's not for me to judge. All of this is in God's purview, not mine. I say this, too, even though I've had problems here; I've been "triggered" into (another) descent into depression. "Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do..."

Jerry, what about the old Irish toast that goes something like, "May those who love us, love us, and those who hate us, Lord, turn their ankles so we'll know by their limp who they are..."? :D

(Sorry. I kind of automatically turn to humor whenever I get too serious...)

mary

Willow

09-07-2007, 04:44 PM

Now that mary mentioned humor I feel like I can post what I was going to a day or so ago.... For some crazy reason, Reg's post made me think of a line out of that song by Bing Crosby - "Would you like to swing on a star". The line is... "Or would you rather be a pig". Just my crazy brain avoiding a trigger I guess... LOL

Elisabeth

09-07-2007, 07:41 PM

Jerry

09-08-2007, 02:29 AM

Jerry, what about the old Irish toast that goes something like, "May those who love us, love us, and those who hate us, Lord, turn their ankles so we'll know by their limp who they are..."? :D
mary
"Spoken with heavy Irish brogue"
Ah I tend to agree with the true vision of loveliness that you are,,,,,and I just might add Dear Lord that their armpits generously festooned with huge festering boils might add to the ease of recognition :D
Good Day to You Dear Lady.......Jerry

Willow

09-08-2007, 07:13 AM

And may the fleas of a thousand camels infest your hair. HAHA

mary

09-08-2007, 08:09 AM

And may the fleas of a thousand camels infest your hair. HAHA

...while the bird of paradise flies up your nose... :D :D :D And an elephant caresses you with his toes...!

(Amy, I'm glad... Humor is always my "default mode," whether I'm in the current process of undergoing chemotherapy, fighting with my siblings or getting thrown out of a church... :cool: :p :D. All three of those things, and more, seem to be part of my perennial lot in life in the last several years...!)

Jerry, thanks, and good day to you - :D :p - and may I add to the "boils request" - may those armpits not be covered by Notre Dame, Fighting Irish sweatshirts, so that we may see them! (Much of my family, being southern WI denizens and Irish Catholics to boot, were huge Notre Dame football fans and I got more than a little weary of the whole ND culture...)

Love,

mary