It wasn't just me....

[Siobhanne]

It seems that things finally came to a head and blew at my former church..ahem..cult. I stopped attending worship services there almost two years ago, although I did continue to attend a SS class. The majority of SS class members had stopped attending worship services as well. I attended this church for 20 yrs, but my in-laws and husband have been there much longer. Initially, I caught a huge amount of flack from the in-laws when I stopped going. I heard everything from "you are a bad wife", "you are setting a bad example for your children".. to "you are going to Hell". My husband had more and more difficulty with it too. Now the in-laws have left. Maybe husband and I will get a rest.

Finally the manure hit the fan landing the cult on the front page of our local newspaper and made the local news. Willow, since you live in the same city as me, you may know well who and what I am referring to. It is out in the open and now everyone can admit.. the man is a schmuck on a power trip. He is the shepherd of Ezekiel 34, the hireling shepherd who eats off the fat of the land while the sheep are neglected and starving.

Not only are the allegations true, the group that made them really understated things. There were many more things which could have been said and they showed considerable restraint. What you read in the paper was only the tip of the iceberg. The church spin doctors tried to gloss over things with many circular answers etc...didn't work this time.

I guess the best thing about this is knowing that I was not alone in my experiences there... same thing obviously happened to others. I'm not crazy after all. My perceptions were not skewed, I am not stupid.

Lesson learned: If it looks like a skunk and it smells like a skunk... then that is exactly what it is

Siobhanne.

[outcast]

I am sorry to hear that you've gone through these things. *hug*

But, it is nice when the Lord vindicates and affirms us - no matter what form that takes. I am happy to hear that everything is out in the open. :)

[Willow]

It's a skunk!!! Good call Siobhanne!
I need to go read the article. I had heard a brief reference that things were not well at 2 rivers... well, I'd known that for a long time... but this time the news made reference on the radio. That's all I heard, but I thought of you immediately and the relief you must be feeling!

BIG HUGS!
Amy

[Anna Marta]

I'm not crazy after all. My perceptions were not skewed, I am not stupid.

Lesson learned: If it looks like a skunk and it smells like a skunk... then that is exactly what it is

Siobhanne.

Yep, and they try so hard and long and convincingly to tell ya it's roses... but in the end... we are NOT stupid with skewed perceptions, are we?

I think it was Abe Lincoln who said something to this effect - "You can fool some of the people some of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. But you cannot fool all of the people all of the time."

Shalom
Anna Marta

[Jerry]

Lesson learned: If it looks like a skunk and it smells like a skunk... then that is exactly what it is

Siobhanne.

Question : Whats the difference between a duck ?????

Answer : One leg is both the same as the other :D

Good for you Siobhanne :D

[ex-shep]

Question : Whats the difference between a duck ?????

Answer : One leg is both the same as the other :D

Good for you Siobhanne :D

Have an arguement with a skunk, everyone looses. We have problems with a colony around our apartment. I have lost track of the number of times I have said to my wife, "Sounds like somebody had an argument with a skunk --- and lost."

[butterfly]

I am sorry for all the pain you had to go thru.:mad: It is awfull when no one wants to beleave that there is abuse in the church.

I am glad:) that it came out in the light.

No you were not crazy, a trouble maker trying to split the church ect.

You like the rest of us were punished for breaking the no talk rule.

I am glad for you that your in-laws are off your case.

I bet some are still behind the pastor now blameing the media for hurting poor pastor.:rolleyes::rolleyes: butterfly

[overcomer]

Siobhanne were you there a long time, have you found another church home in your area?
and i noticed your wording, did he use the word stupid alot when speaking of people, or is this just how he (or some of his followers) tried to make you or others feel?
so sorry you had this experience, it makes me sick at my stomach.

[overcomer]

sorry i missed what you said, you'd been there for 20 years.
i know some people there and some who've left there.
you've described it very, very well that people have shown considerable restraint, and i think this is something his followers are hiding and lying about.
looks like some still just cherish the living daylights out of him, they've been pretty taken by him.
it's too easy to want to be a part of some pastor that looks successful and good.
but something was going wrong and nobody wanted to believe the little ones.

i guess it's a wake up call, isn't it.
i wonder why none of those men around him and downtown would come along side of him hard enough to tell him he was heading for problems, maybe cause if they did, he may have known where to hit them. i understand he's good at putting threats out.

if someone would offend him, he'd do or say something to get at them in front of the church, mock something they'd say and then just laugh.
why can't people hear past and through things like this? clean your ears and your hearts, people.

he talks alot, i hope they don't fall for it all again. he's even quick enough to ask his own questions during interviews sometimes, even taking a glance at the baptist press 'interview' shows this, he controlled it.
i wonder if he filtered questions when Chris Matthews was there with Hardball a few years back.
'see this one or that one, don't let them ask me any questions...you see, they have some mental problems, and they might embarrass themselves, and we wouldn't want that...'
it's pretty easy to imagine, but i guess i shouldn't imagine should i.

bottom line is he didn't think anyone would see.
but God sees us all, and that includes him, and i sure hope he's learning that lesson.

[Siobhanne]

Siobhanne were you there a long time, have you found another church home in your area?
and i noticed your wording, did he use the word stupid alot when speaking of people, or is this just how he (or some of his followers) tried to make you or others feel?
so sorry you had this experience, it makes me sick at my stomach.

I was in that church for 22 yrs. I do attend another church in my area although I have not joined. The church I now attend is a different denomination and very liberal. Because it is so very different, the chance of being triggered is greatly minimized. I don't encounter the same terminology, music etc. The theology is probably much more liberal than I am.. but I'm not there to change anyone.. just sit and listen. It is like opening my closet and pulling out a pair of "fat" jeans and putting them on. After years of pouring myself into skinny jeans two sizes too small... this is kind of nice. I've got breathing room.

As far as "stupid" is concerned, anyone who didn't see things exactly as he did ( the correct way) was considered deficient ( spiritually, educationally etc). This pastor is highly educated and very intellectual. He is an excellent orator who has a flair for history, politics and denominational affairs. He is also the author of several books. He has a very dark side. He is known for intimidation, either directly or via other staff members ( the usual method) His private personal is very different from his public one. Anyone who crosses this man pays a price. They are the target of the next vindictive sermon, are removed from their place of ministry etc.

I have been away from this place for awhile. I have a completely different outlook on life. It was like going from a 2 channel black/white with crappy reception to a multi-channel technicolor with a crystal clear picture. However, that my husband, in-laws and others are finally able to admit that "the emperor has no clothes".. I can laugh aloud.

Siobhanne

[overcomer]

glad you are in a church somewhere.
found the news clip of him on tv tonight, in service where he talked to his congregation, after they gave him a standing ovation.
they actually had background music playing softly while he was quietly accusing people of being vicious to him.

i'm almost really ready to throw up, i don't know if i can handle this if he gets off.

[Jerry]

i'm almost really ready to throw up, i don't know if i can handle this if he gets off.

Dear Overcomer,,,,
Take heart,,,,,he may slide by for a while,,,,,but with God,,,,,,nobody "gets off" ;)
Love Jerry