New Episode in AMs saga

[Anna Marta]

Dear Friends,

I have read in various books that if one person has experienced abuse in a church, so have others, and that it can be helpful to get together with those persons and talk.

Up to this point that has not been an option for us because the couple who had also left and who we began home meetings with told us that we were NOT going to talk about the old church because it was time to move on. They were the ones who set out to organize (control) the home meetings leading to the swift death of the group. :rolleyes:

We have been friends with a young couple who have also left, not due to being abused, but because of what they observed. They met a young man downtown who left the church. When they told him they had also left and why he was eager to talk with them. They had a coffee evening with him and then they all decided to have a dinner evening with us today for all of us to share.

So tonight we come together for the first time with someone who is willing to and eager to talk and share about his experience. He is a senior seminary student whose spiritual counselor is a the pastor of a large church in NYC (The church started by David Wilkerson) who told him to GET OUT!

We offered to bring dinner so we can eat and talk together, which is always a good way to share deeply with another. I like the fact that he decided to actively go against the "no talk" dynamic. We wonder what God is doing... Apparently there are a number of people who have either left or are aware of the problem.

Keep us in your thoughts.

Anna Marta

[Turtle]

Good on ya for being able to have that venue for healing. It sounds like a healthy way to work through what you're all goin through. I wish you a special time.

[yeshua'smags]

Oh cool! I want to hear what happens!

[Carmen]

I hope things go constructively. I am also usually relieved to find someone willing to talk, as long as they don't just express bitterness or seem malicious. I understand some bitterness as long as the person works toward getting rid of it. Am currently in a setting where it isn't wanted that I talk about previous experience with SA, since it involves a pastor of the same type of church.

[ex-shep]

Maybe I need to get my home internet hooked up and learn to speak IRC.

[Anna Marta]

There you go again... Ex Shep. What is IRC?
************************************************** ********

Just got back from our evening it is now 1:30AM and I just had to take a few minutes to share with you all.

It was quite and evening! We each shared our stories and the young man, Bjørn, after hearing our tale said, "And I thought I had it bad, you guys have really been abused!"

We sat there with open mouths hearing the downright mean spirited things the pastor said to this talented and wise young man. It was not difficult to
know that they were said deliberately to hurt and destroy him and his future.

We ended up by discussing what kind of responsibility we have. Our decision was that we would not go out and talk to everyone about what happened to us, but if asked we will tell the truth. We prayed and asked God to open doors and present us with opportunities that are in line with His will for His children.

The topic of how to help others who have also been victims of spiritual abuse came up. There is almost nothing published in Norway about the topic and no forum such as ours available. We decided to come ask God to lead the way and come together again later on to discover what God has been saying to each of us. In the mean time one of us will contact the author of the only book about abuse in churches in the Norwegian language. Both Bjørn and Steinar are computer professionals and began talking about the idea of a Norwegian forum.

Tonight I knew God has been healing my heart. I could tell my story and talk about the details without the pain! It wasn't until the end of the evening that I realized it and understood just how much healing has taken place.

Brothers and sisters on the forum I want to thank you for your love and compassionate support. I know I have a ways to go but my wounds are finally better off than when I came to this family. I think the arrows are all out now and the holes are beginning to fill in. My job is to make sure no one gets permission to do this again!

Love
Anna Marta

[ex-shep]

IRC is internet relay chat. It gives us the opportunity to have an online meeting of SAs. Willow was supposed to walk me through it. It fell by the wayside. At the moment, finances are so tight that I do not have internet access at home.

This has been a long term goal.

[Willow]

Brothers and sisters on the forum I want to thank you for your love and compassionate support. I know I have a ways to go but my wounds are finally better off than when I came to this family. I think the arrows are all out now and the holes are beginning to fill in. My job is to make sure no one gets permission to do this again!

Love
Anna Marta

I love hearing your story unfold... this is great AM. HUGS

[Willow]

Willow was supposed to walk me through it. It fell by the wayside.

I was??? I must have forgotten about that! Didn't mean to leave you hanging. There are instructions at mirc.com That's the software you need to download to access IRC chat. I have a room called Spiritual Abuse on the Starlink-IRC.org network. I rarely darken the door there, but if it was needed, it is there. A dear friend from New Zealand is there more than me because he thinks someone should be in a room like that as much as possible. I've considered changing the name to something lighter so he doesn't feel he has to do that... I dunno... we'll see what happens.

[ex-shep]

I was??? I must have forgotten about that! Didn't mean to leave you hanging. There are instructions at mirc.com That's the software you need to download to access IRC chat. I have a room called Spiritual Abuse on the Starlink-IRC.org network. I rarely darken the door there, but if it was needed, it is there. A dear friend from New Zealand is there more than me because he thinks someone should be in a room like that as much as possible. I've considered changing the name to something lighter so he doesn't feel he has to do that... I dunno... we'll see what happens.

It was many moons ago. The original post is so ancient it is on dictaphone.

[Anna Marta]

This may be disjointed so I ask that you bear with me, okay?

The basic rules of this forum want that we share our journey and what has helped us. I have been giving this a lot of thought lately. I am trying to gather the threads together that often feel so tangled inside my head when I try to impose some order on my thoughts.

As I trace my path backwards, these are the things that my mind highlights:

Being a dedicated neurotic type person I naturally immediately assumed that "I" was THE problem. There is no need to explain to you all the pain of those times during which I doubted just about every aspect of my being. Other than the death of a loved one, I have never known such intense suffering for so long a period in my life. I nearly came to believe that the precious and dear parts of myself that come from the center of my being were selfish, unloving or maybe even malevolent.
The second aspect was the sense of rejection that I can only compare with the feelings I had in junior high school during the days of cliques, groups, in crowds and outcasts. Those days when your reputation was ALL you had. Even the beautiful could be shunned and rejected as no one quite knew or understood what the criteria for acceptance really was. The intense self examination of every aspect of my physical body, personality, family status, etc. and the complete acceptance of their cruelty as normal.
The third was the isolation. Living in a vacuum alone in a crowd looking around and wondering what people were thinking and experiencing being invisible or "marked" a kind of "Typhoid Mary" with no one with whom I could talk openly and feeling as if no one cared.
Fourth the surreal aspect of it all, being in the middle of something that only I seemed to acknowledge was happening. Everyone else appeared to be happily living out their lives completely unaware of what was happening. Being shut down and hushed up when trying to address what I know I saw, heard and experienced as people denied it at worst making me look like a liar or, at best, agreed that they too had seen things, yet warned me not to talk because it could damage the church.
Finally, walking (limping) away after the realization that nothing was going to be done, nothing would change and any attempts on my part would result in further damage and possible destruction of me personally. The leader was a person who was feared (not respected) for the amount of power and influence he possessed.


This was the state I was in when I came to this forum!

Anna Marta
continued in another post, if you are interested to go further...

[Anna Marta]

I knew I needed to make a journey back again, but to what and how?


I realized after coming to this forum that I was not alone, nor was I going crazy (even though I was then on an antidepressant) and my experiences as I related them slowly, bit by bit and were affirmed. This was the beginning of finally having something to grab onto. To be no longer isolated was, for me, the first of a long line of healings of many that are still to come... :cool:

My intense need to understand the abusers, an abusive organization and the SA process has led to the building of a sizable library of books, articles, Internet sites and new friends. :) With each new piece of information I have experienced an increased sense of a seizing my life back again. (... maybe a better life?)

Like many of you I had to put the bible in a drawer. I was no longer able to trust the interpretations I had so blithely accepted when reviewed them in the light of the character of the teachers. (This lead to a period of confusion the likes of which I hadn't known since the time I had to come to terms with what my parents had actually done to produce me! Unthinkable, right?) Today I am again back to reading my bible, but now actively to search for God and His voice and character - not for twisted out of context promises w/ proof texts. I have returned to the joy of searching the Word for the Living Word (if that makes sense to you.) I must be honest here, I LOVE God and I believe that the bible was written and compiled under the direct inspiration of God Himself. I frankly do not care a whit if you agree or disagree with me and I will not enter into any discussions about it. So don't bother telling me I am a "choose your adjective" conservative - because you are right! I am a conservative and I LIKE IT!

GOD - what about GOD? He is the one person about whom I am not confused. I love my Saviour and the distance I have felt from him as a result of the SA experience has been indescribably hard to deal with. Because of the actions of men I no longer searched for the voice of God and I doubted that I could distinguish it if I heard it. For a gal who has been close to God for so much of her life that period of time was spent in deep grief covered with guilt and shame.

But, you know what? I learned something about God (and me) during this time. I learned that even though I had sealed myself into that plexi-glass box where I could see and hear, but could not be touched, HE didn't change and HE HEARD the prayers I was screaming silently inside my heart and mind. Screaming is the right word folks. I was screaming like a person in a mental institution inside a padded room and no one heard me, but Him.

I wish I could be more accurate in explaining what He did. He sent many of you - your responses to each other as you continued to hang, however slightly, onto your faith helped me. Those who dared to come out and share the unshakable parts of their faith and beliefs strengthened me. Those who dared to let the pain and confusion drip out through their words gave me an outlet to share my love again. I began to learn to stand on my feet and stand up for what I value and believe in an effort to strengthen not just me but "us" the Body of Christ who live here in cyber space. God connected me with members of this forum who are hungry to share what they are newly discovering in the bible as they read and we have enjoyed many mails doing this and rediscovering what was nearly lost. God placed books in my hands that spoke exactly to the precise things I was praying about - secretly. Some of these books I have shared with you. The latest and most helpful is the one by Jack Deere "Surprised by the Voice of God". Man oh man, is that worth a very slow read over time as the Holy Spirit directs you to do.

Church - what do do about worship, fellowship, sharing faith, equipping others and caring for the sick and wounded? I wish I had THE answer! My latest quest for several months has been praying for God to show me the answer to my question - "What is the church?" If anything he directs me to more questions than specific answers. I am beginning to equate the answer to that question with the question - "What is the Trinity?" You see intuitively I know I know the answer, but I can't explain it to you. It is just too complex and has too many aspects to grasp them individually.

Is that what the church is too? So complex that there is not way to grasp it or explain it, but you know it when you experience it? Can it not be defined because it is a spiritual reality and not a physical entity? Have we tried to create and organize spirit, light, truth, mercy, joy, worship, love etc... out of dust? Only God can make a man out of dust, maybe God has already made the Body the church? It is so easy to define what is wrong with it, but it is not so easy to make it right...


That is where I am today. It's a long post, but it's a long journey. There are still a lot of things I struggle with that I don't know how to work through yet. There are wounds that are not yet ready to be dealt with. Isn't timing everything? There are aspects of myself that I still need to face and work on. Slowly Steinar and I are evaluating each other. We can and are better able to point out to each other what we see as we observe the other in social situations. We are trying to work on not allowing bitterness to take root by clipping the little shoots that surface in conversations.

Thanks for reading, if you got this far you deserve one of Ex Sheps Lattes! :D

Love
Anna Marta

[ex-shep]

Give that lady a latte. Outstanding !!

[outcast]

Amazing that you were able to capture exactly how I've felt for the past two years in your posts...

Once again my dear, you are not alone. ;)