Learning to Listen and Take Advice ...

[vja4Him]

I was at a men's recovery meeting Saturday morning, with a local recovery home. The meeting was awesome! The leader of the group meeting that morning shared something that really caught my attention. It was one of those moments that everything seems to make sense ....

I thought back to nearly two years ago, when my boys and I started attending Celebrate Recovery ... There was a man at the church barbeque who invited me to Celebrate Recovery. I thought to myself that I don't need recovery. I've already quits drugs and alcohol. I decided to check it out anyway, and I'm so glad that I did! At first, I didn't really think that I would fit in. After all, I wasn't like all those people, who were a bunch of drunks, drug addicts ....

Well, I found a small men's group, and have been attending Celebrate Recovery at our home church, Big Valley Grace, Tuesday night, and also at a sister church on Fridays, Shelter Cove.

After so many years of abusing my mind and body with drugs and alcohol, I had been wearing a mask, and in total denial, hiding in my own world, falling deeper into depression, confusion, hurt, pain .....

I'm thankful that God has begun the healing process for myself and two boys. Now, we are on the road to recovery (one of my favorite songs we sing on Fridays during worship at Celebrate Recovery). I am learning how to do life, enjoy life, and help others.

My point is simply this: if I had not listened to that man at church, and continued on in my thinking that I've got everything figured out, and don't need help, my boys and I would not have gotten involved with our recovery. We would still be floundering, stumbling, suffering even more, and perhaps I would have lost custody of my boys, ended up homeless, back out there, destroying my life again .....

God is good, and I need His grace more than ever ....

[Elisabeth]

Wow! God is really working in your life! That is such a cool thing! :cool:

[vja4Him]

Wow! God is really working in your life! That is such a cool thing! :cool:

Yeah, God is working in our lives .... but, sometimes the road is rough! I never thought that my boys and I would be a victim of abuse. I kept hoping that somehow we would work things out, or that by some unseen magic, our problems would be fixed.

I almost lost my youngest boy, "B" who was brainwashed by his mother and her evil friends. They came and took B by force, grabbed his arm and pulled him by his hair, and dragged him off. Then they coerced my oldest boy to say things against me, and made at least four separate recordings to use against me in court. I could go on and on about how the boys' mother and her wicked friends stalked me, threatened to kill me, convinced my little boy "B" that we found him in the dumpster, and that I didn't want him. Two friend of the boys' mother are in prison now for torturing their two daughters, one who died, but was brought back to life by the paramedics. Her temperature had fallen to only 79 degrees ...). Long story ......

My children were in the care of these wicked, evil, sadistic people for a number of years. The boys' mother was very close to these horrible people, which has caused much confusion for my boys, because inside they must have at least wanted to trust their mother, but could see that her friends were very bad. I had trusted these people, including a pastor at a local Christian church, his wife, and children, who all abused my two boys.

What a mess ...... But, somehow, I must trust that all things work together for the good, for those who love God. I know that God has a plan for us, and will guide us, and use us to help others who are hurting. I never thought that I would be able to help anyone ... my own life has been such a mess ...

My boys have suffered so much trauma .... which makes everyday a challenge to deal with all this stuff that we all have inside .... I'm so thankful that we found Celebrate Recovery, and that I have mustered up the courage to continue going to AA meetings sometimes. I really prefer the Christ-centered recovery programs (Celebrate Recovery, God's Way Out, and others).

If I'm not working tomorrow, I might catch the Freeway Fellowship AA meeting. I can ride my bike there, and they have a food bar, where we can order food and drinks (no alcohol). Ironically, there is a local tavern that allows AA to use it's back room to have AA meetings! Is that strange?

-- vja4Him *Child of the Most High God*
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[ex-shep]

The church I attended in Texas had a CR group. I try to catch the CR group in Cleveland. Great Group. Thanks for sharing the glad tidings. I just skimmed the post, but it sure made my day. :)

[Reg]

snip

I thought back to nearly two years ago, when my boys and I started attending Celebrate Recovery ... There was a man at the church barbeque who invited me to Celebrate Recovery. I thought to myself that I don't need recovery. I've already quits drugs and alcohol. I decided to check it out anyway, and I'm so glad that I did! At first, I didn't really think that I would fit in. After all, I wasn't like all those people, who were a bunch of drunks, drug addicts ....

Well, I found a small men's group, and have been attending Celebrate Recovery at our home church, Big Valley Grace, Tuesday night, and also at a sister church on Fridays, Shelter Cove.

After so many years of abusing my mind and body with drugs and alcohol, I had been wearing a mask, and in total denial, hiding in my own world, falling deeper into depression, confusion, hurt, pain .....

I'm thankful that God has begun the healing process for myself and two boys. Now, we are on the road to recovery (one of my favorite songs we sing on Fridays during worship at Celebrate Recovery). I am learning how to do life, enjoy life, and help others.

My point is simply this: if I had not listened to that man at church, and continued on in my thinking that I've got everything figured out, and don't need help, my boys and I would not have gotten involved with our recovery. We would still be floundering, stumbling, suffering even more, and perhaps I would have lost custody of my boys, ended up homeless, back out there, destroying my life again .....

God is good, and I need His grace more than ever ....
Hi vja4Him,

Welcome aboard.

I was on the leadership team of CR for two years that started it in our church.

I was the Assimilator Coach and handled the resources table. I gave my testimony at the first one back in September 2000. I was also the small group facilitator for the Anger, Depression & Emotional Problems group.

I had the opportunity to attend Saddleback Community Church in CA that started CR at their
annual CR Summit in 2000 and 2001. I met John Baker and was instrumental in having him and
his wife Cheryl come to our church to do a one day seminar for the churches in our area.

I would recommend CR. One caveat. Take it slow and easy. Feel the place out. They are not very
well equipped to deal with Spiritual Abuse. I had difficulties to relate my experience with anyone
who really understood, although a couple tried they misunderstood where I was coming from. I
found very little support for that area of abuse I suffered. I don’t think anyone even knew what
PTSD stood for.

Furthermore, I didn’t even know that I still suffered from spiritual abuse until I was triggered a
number of times by some in the church leadership. They didn’t even know that they triggered me.
The sensitivity level is not there for us who suffer from this.. Although they do a wonderful job
with all other areas that many churches struggle with such as alcoholism and sexual addictions,
etc. they are inadequate with matters of spiritual abuse.

Consequently, I left the leadership because of this and time issues.

[ex-shep]

Actually I have heard quite a few videos. They do have testimonies of those suffering from legalism and spiritual abuse. Both the church in Texas and Ohio were familiar and comfortable with it.

[vja4Him]

I also have suffered from spiritual abuse. My two boys also have suffered from serious spiritual abuse, along with mental, pscyological, emotional, and physical abuse. My oldest boy had problems with soiling his pants, and the pastor at the church where my boys' mother attends, made fun of my son in the church, in front of the congregation, and they were all laughing. I've witnessed the pastor abusing many people in a similar manner ...... including making fun of me.

The pastor prayed for me, that I would be healed. When I wasn't healed, they made fun of me, blaming me that I really don't believe in God, or I don't pray hard enough, long enough, or say the right words ..... This was very disappoining, discouraging, and very hurtful.

My boys' mother was always condemning me, telling me that I was destined for hell .... I had to put up with this spiritual abuse for about 10 years. There were many days that I was afraid to even to home. I put my trust in that pastor, and my boys always were under the pastor's care (along with his wife and children), who all abused my boys for a number of years.

We are still recovering from this terrible mess ... More later ....

Hi vja4Him,

Welcome aboard.

I was on the leadership team of CR for two years that started it in our church.

I was the Assimilator Coach and handled the resources table. I gave my testimony at the first one back in September 2000. I was also the small group facilitator for the Anger, Depression & Emotional Problems group.

I had the opportunity to attend Saddleback Community Church in CA that started CR at their
annual CR Summit in 2000 and 2001. I met John Baker and was instrumental in having him and
his wife Cheryl come to our church to do a one day seminar for the churches in our area.

I would recommend CR. One caveat. Take it slow and easy. Feel the place out. They are not very
well equipped to deal with Spiritual Abuse. I had difficulties to relate my experience with anyone
who really understood, although a couple tried they misunderstood where I was coming from. I
found very little support for that area of abuse I suffered. I don’t think anyone even knew what
PTSD stood for.

Furthermore, I didn’t even know that I still suffered from spiritual abuse until I was triggered a
number of times by some in the church leadership. They didn’t even know that they triggered me.
The sensitivity level is not there for us who suffer from this.. Although they do a wonderful job
with all other areas that many churches struggle with such as alcoholism and sexual addictions,
etc. they are inadequate with matters of spiritual abuse.

Consequently, I left the leadership because of this and time issues.

[ex-shep]

I also have suffered from spiritual abuse. My two boys also have suffered from serious spiritual abuse, along with mental, pscyological, emotional, and physical abuse. My oldest boy had problems with soiling his pants, and the pastor at the church where my boys' mother attends, made fun of my son in the church, in front of the congregation, and they were all laughing. I've witnessed the pastor abusing many people in a similar manner ...... including making fun of me.

The pastor prayed for me, that I would be healed. When I wasn't healed, they made fun of me, blaming me that I really don't believe in God, or I don't pray hard enough, long enough, or say the right words ..... This was very disappoining, discouraging, and very hurtful.

My boys' mother was always condemning me, telling me that I was destined for hell .... I had to put up with this spiritual abuse for about 10 years. There were many days that I was afraid to even to home. I put my trust in that pastor, and my boys always were under the pastor's care (along with his wife and children), who all abused my boys for a number of years.

We are still recovering from this terrible mess ... More later ....

I am sorry to hear of this. I do a slow burn when I hear of the blame the victim. The important element of Christianity is support and encouragement. You did not need that and it saddens me you were subjected. Share when you feel like it. Enjoy the fellowship. Virtual coffeepot is always brewing. Welcome aboard. Glad you are here.

[Reg]

Actually I have heard quite a few videos. They do have testimonies of those suffering from legalism and spiritual abuse. Both the church in Texas and Ohio were familiar and comfortable with it.
Glad to hear that Ex-shep. Unfortunatley, ours wasn't yet.

I'm not sure about now but in 2002 I knew a member of Saddleback involved with CR and I asked her if they had a group for the Spiritually Abused. She said NO.

I found that rather strange since they started CR nealy 10 years previously.

Maybe things have changed since. I sure hope so.

[ex-shep]

Glad to hear that Ex-shep. Unfortunatley, ours wasn't yet.

I'm not sure about now but in 2002 I knew a member of Saddleback involved with CR and I asked her if they had a group for the Spiritually Abused. She said NO.

I found that rather strange since they started CR nealy 10 years previously.

Maybe things have changed since. I sure hope so.

I heard the videos within the past year at Grace Community Church, Plano, TX. They were part of the Testimony to Go Series. There was a talk from a survivor of a legalistic church who turned to drugs. We did have members who were having difficulties in other churches. Considering the denomination historically had difficulties with shepherding, that spoke well.

[Reg]

Ex-shep,

Let me clarify even more why I feel that the 12 Step CR program is inadequate to serve the needs of the SA. Here is the thread I started to explain that.

16 Steps vs 12 Steps

http://www.christianrecovery.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5998

BTW, I checked to see if Saddleback had a SA group. Couldn't find one.

[Reg]

Here was the original post and some replies:

July 27/04 - 16 Steps vs 12 Steps (Part 1-2) - 09-15-2004, 12:31 AM

http://www.christianrecovery.com/vb/showthread.php?t=64&page=2

[ex-shep]

skimmed the post. makes sense to me. Good points.