Self-Defeating Behavior

[Voyager]

I am never ceased to be amazed at the responses I see on this forum. You'd think I'd realize that it's hard for people to change, but I guess I always hold onto a little hope that they will. I guess I need to worry more about myself, as Jane said, and forget about trying to help others get beyond the wounds of spiritual abuse and find recovery.

For many years I was stuck after being spiritually abused. I was stuck in the mindset of the brainwashing that I received at my former church. I found a way out of that destructive thought process, and found a way to get control of my mind back from my former abuser. I share it with this forum, and everyone goes on full tilt. I get attacked by people who say that what I have found is from Satan, and is anti-Christ.

What I find ironic is the same people who attack my means of recovery are mainly those who come here posting day after day about how much of a victim they are, how depressed they are, and how horrible life is. They are obviously just as stuck as I was (or worse), and are not willing to even listen to logic that does not fit into their little religious box. Even when I back up what I say with Scripture, that's not good enough for them. They seem to feel the need to continually tell me that what I have found is anti-Christ and of the devil.

I shared something that set me free from the negative thought patterns that spiritual abuse and other life experiences inflicted on me. If you want to throw rocks at me, tell me I am filled with Satan, tell me I am deceived, tell me that my recovery doesn't line up with the Bible - I say this to you: You go and find recovery yourself, and then come back and tell me about a better way to do it. Don't come here and whine and play the perpetual victim and then tell me that my recovery method is anti-Christ. Put some action to your words, and then show me the results.

:cool:

[Voyager]

P.S. - The kind of drama that I am seeing on this forum lately is exactly the reason that I took several months off earlier this year. What is happening here is not healthy for anyone's recovery. I think it's time that I moved on for good. This is not a plea for sympathy or a threat made in haste - it's simply stating a logical fact. Drama and hostility are not part of a good recipe for recovery. If I needed people to spank my head with a Bible, I could just go back to my former abusive church.

:(

[jane]

voyager-
I didn't feel that my reply was meant towards you.

Were you trying to get people to do things your way? I didn't read any posts in that tone...........so if so, I missed one.

I was referring only to people trying to get us to conform to THEIR way....and speaking to us in scripture and not from their own words.

I was referring to a way that we used to do things that seemed beneficial.

Maybe change happened and I have to accept it........I am just not sure that I like the change.....so I will question it if it feels like spiritual abuse.....and it does.

Speaking truth in love to someone is never something that I have a problem doing or recieving........but truth is different than control.

I am not sure if I can describe in words where the difference is.......it is a feeling for me.......when I read capital letters that are accusing......when I read someone telling someone that they are not following the Lord......or are decieved.......those are signals for me that controlling is going on and not truth in love.

Personally, I don't know anything about what book you are studying and I don't have time to research it these days........ but I believe that if it brings you peace, healing, joy and hope........you know some of the fruits of the spirit......than I rejoice with you on your path.

If someone else feels like it is wrong after they researched it......than I rejoice for them that they found out quickly that something will not work for their healing........

but either side telling the other side to do it their way:mad: that is what I am writing about.

love to you,
jane

[jane]

p.s. drama can be a good thing, it keeps our pulses racing and reminds us that we are alive and feel strongly about things :p

[Voyager]

Thanks Jane. I do feel like this forum can be hazardous to the spiritual and emotional health of those trying to recover from spiritual abuse. Maybe someone needs to create a forum with a rule such as this one:

This is a forum designed to help victims of spiritual abuse find recovery. In a spiritually abusive environment you will find people imposing their beliefs on others by the use of fear, threats, shaming, manipulation, and condemnation. We do not believe that such an environment is conducive to the recovery process. Therefore, we do not allow members to post derogatory comments that contain shaming, condemnation, or threats against other forum members. Posts that contain such attacks will be deleted, and the author of the post will be warned. Continual violations of this rule may end in suspension or termination of your rights to post on this forum.

Would anyone here be interested in a forum of this nature?

:cool:

[jane]

let me think on it more.......

part of me is thinking, Yes, I like those rules.

and part of me is thinking that maybe a perfectly clean environment doesn't give us a chance to exercise the muscles that we are trying to grow.

If something isn't allowed that is abusive or co-ercive....where will we develop an opportunity to learn to stand up for ourselves without reacting aggressively ourselves?

for me, I am not in a church environment so those places are few.

and yet, I agree, not being attacked would make things easier.

but I ask you, have those attacks hindered your growth or stopped your healing???

They have made you mad........and rightly so, but you still are reading your book and growing towards healing, am I wrong?

Where I think it is dangerous and hazardous is when new people receive those attacks and fall under submission without questioning because they just left those scenes that speak the same language......

let me think more....my brain is a little tired right now.

jane

[Voyager]

Where I think it is dangerous and hazardous is when new people receive those attacks and fall under submission without questioning because they just left those scenes that speak the same language......

I know you mentioned that it might be best to allow more liberties, but think of it this way: Would it be conducive to the recovery of a rape victim if people were allowed to shame, condemn, blame, and threaten them in the recovery environment? I believe that this becomes counterproductive to finding recovery when the very thing we have fled is being used on us again. Wouldn't it be better to isolate abuse victims in a "Intensive Care" environment and educate them on how to prevent being abused again?

I believe I could have found recovery much sooner if I hadn't spent so much time in forums like this one that allow people to spank each other in the heads with their Bibles. That is nothing but a perpetuation of the abuse that we supposedly escaped. When all of our energy is wasted on infighting and defending ourselves, we don't spend the energy required to find recovery.

Just think if we spent our energy learning about abusive patterns, how to escape being a perpetual victim, and on how to bolster our self esteem to create boundaries that would prevent future abuse instead of getting into doctrinal debates. To me, that would be the way to find recovery in the fastest way possible without getting sidetracked into things that are counterproductive to recovery. That would be like a heart attack victim continuing their smoking, drinking, laying on the couch all day, and eating wrong instead of going in for heart surgery, physical therapy, and diet and exercise training.

Just my opinion of the matter. Take what you need and leave the rest.

:cool:

[Elisabeth]

More than anything, we all need to have love for one another.

[Voyager]

More than anything, we all need to have love for one another.

That would be the ultimate environment for recovery. But some people think that abuse is love - especially after being abused. That's why rules of respect need to be in place, because one person's idea of love may be bashing someone over the head with a Bible and someone else's idea of love may be allowing people to think for themselves for a change.

:cool:

[jane]

I guess when you use the terms shame, condemn and blame them in the recovery fields....... I see your point.

I am just a little gunshy about rules.

I wonder what the next rule will be........

still thinking still thinking; my brain runs slower these days.

jane

[Voyager]

I guess when you use the terms shame, condemn and blame them in the recovery fields....... I see your point.

I am just a little gunshy about rules.

I wonder what the next rule will be........

still thinking still thinking; my brain runs slower these days.

jane

I personally went through a period of time where I questioned everyone and everything after I left my spiritually abusive church. This lasted about seven years. I would find myself snapping at people if I felt even the slightest manipulation from them. If the cashier at Walmart tried to ring up a higher price, by God - she was going to hear about it! No one was going to use me as a doormat anymore, or get one over on me.

I had a friend who left the church who was the nicest Mr. Milktoast you could ever meet. Overnight he turned mean! He got really nasty with people, and lost all his patience. It was like Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde. Now, eight years later, he has his old kind nature back - but don't try to manipulate him or he will get really aggressive.

I think this comes from having too many legalistic rules placed on us in an abusive church. In addition, we were taken advantage of. So now that we are free, it's easy to become overprotective of the freedom and the rights that we had been stripped of because we don't want to let them get taken away again.

:cool: