e.g. twisted scripture

[Turtle]

Aquaintances from old church called to say "hi' today, triggering some thoughts of the past.

Young adults were a target in the old group for cult like teachings.
My daughter-in-law told me that at the time she was still single she was told this:
since her parents weren't Christians and she was, then her parents were against her. :eek:

New Xian that she was, she was strongly encouraged to distance herself from these wonderful parents of hers. They truly are lovely people. She was most confused by this and deeply, DEEPLY regrets this time in her life.

How sick is that!! I just have a really hard time still seeing people from there that allowed this kind of BS to happen. Yes, we can't put out or prevent all fires, but this was such obvious heresy.

A positive is that we are all out of there, and we have a chance to love our kids. :D

Thanks for the vent. :(

[Oopsie Daisey]

OH Turtle, I remember when my brother went through this in a church he is at and believed it for years. He really alienated my parents and then couldn't figure out why my parents were distant emotionally from him. He is still trying to change my parents to his church's way of thinking and I told him to knock it off that our parents seemed to have God working for them when he and his church is falling flat on their face... He knocked off one evening and then started the next evening and finally I gave it a black eye. I told him that at least my dad promoted the families and my mom promoted the wives to be true to their husbands quite unlike his church which has cost him a 26 year marriage and he shut up because he is really hurting because of that and hopefully will come to his senses.

I don't know how he fell prey to this either Turtle. I remember hearing him say it...the church never had me alienate my family...that ws when I was attending the same church he was and I finally asked him where he got the idea the church did...and he said, it was because his dreams always got squashed around mom and dad and they didn't believe the same way as he did. AND I was like, geekers, you and I don't either but we can get along ...I kind of think that is your personality clash with dad because you both have to be right... can't you just allow for the fact that dad has God and so do you and the rest don't matter.
DUH DUH DUH~

He had influences in his church...but I didn't . It was the company that he and his wife kept that influenced them. I never had that from his church but I do understand what your saying Turtle because my grandparents went through with an aunt and uncle...my grandma died broken hearted. A wonderful Christian lady and my grandpa died as a wonderful christian man who made it known just before his 80th birthday that he was no long the agnostic, or the athiest. He made it known that he turned his life over to God to serve Him and that as his grandchildren we were to make sure that no one in our path went without hearing the truth. This was a result of a little book in the doctors office called"Life after death" and some one wanted to question his salvation ...He was doing more on his death bed than most people were doing in the best of health ... He was so tender and humble. It makes me mad when I know people do that and are influenced to do that.

I am with you all the way Turtle on making sure that the word is out that is twisted scriputer indeed. Blessings,

Melanie

[jackie021]

Hi Turtle,

The isolation trick! Classic cult maneuver.

During my time in a christian cult, the leader (who was/is also my husband) tried over and over to kill all my trust in my parents. No matter what accusations he brought against them, I stayed with, "you know they are human beings and not perfect, BUT they are the most sincere Christians I have ever met."

After 5 years of physical isolation, my father became ill with Lou Gehrigs disease, I jumped ship and moved back him to care for him. This was the first step in coming out of the myriad twisted scriptures I had been indoctrinated with. (My father made a full recovery!)

I have had conversations with my husband about his "freak-outs" that happen whenever my parents are around. (One time he went out a window to avoid them.) I said, "Look, everyone has problems with in-laws, BUT where 6-inches is normal you are way over a yardstick in reaction." He agreed that his reaction is over the top.

I am still trying to figure out why he freaks so badly. He says he doesn't know. My parents have never done anything ... well, except reject his doctrine.

All the best to your daughter-in-law, there is LIFE after cults.

Jackie

[Turtle]

All the best to your daughter-in-law, there is LIFE after cults.

Jackie[/QUOTE]

Oh Jackie, thanks for those words. I so needed to hear that. It's one of those kinda sucky days, and hearing form people of the past makes me feel a little abandoned again. I always have that pain of a parents heart when I see my kids struggling to grow out of the effects of the abuse. There is a part they have to do on their own, and they are stronger for it, but what a price.

They wre recruitied in a Christian mainline church. That is why most of our friends and aquaintances at the time didn't believe us, till later and the damage was done.

Thankyou for the hope that there is life after cults. I appreciate how you said that about "Christian cults".

Good for you sticking by your parents!

[Turtle]

Melanie, I think the scripture used to advocte these young people alienating form their parents goes something like..."if God be for us who can be against us". What they really meant if people don't agree with us, distance yourself.
The alienation wasn't even subtle after awhile. I have letters from them to prove it.
And so hearing from people this a.m that used to be my best friends, makes me a little sad. They are embarrassed that we stood up against this stuff and left the church. They agree we were mistreated, but seem to wish we hadn't left or made waves, because others including their kids, left too. It just all makes me feel like a little kid again, told to be quiet and sit still :rolleyes:

Oh well. I need to get outa of this "ditch" I'm in today. I will go for my therapy walk (waterskiing injury getting better) and later will take hubbie out for dinner and some nice wine :D

[Zacchaeus]

Hi Turtle, Mel, and Jackie -

Here's something I posted recently on my blog, concerning the nature of The Church Family...

****************

The Church: A True Family?

It never ceases to amaze me how easily snared Christians are by the concept of church as a family - until that concept is seriously challenged...

Like so many new Christians, I found the world of church new and exciting, filled with all kinds of possibilities, and in those early days I eagerly lapped up whatever was on offer - prayer meetings, bible studies, men's breakfasts, morning meetings, afternoon services... I was hooked on church. But, the novelty (aka honeymoon) period carries us along only for so long before we level off and start to seek other things.

I started to visualise myself with power in the church... as a preacher, an evangelist, or anything that simply focused on ME! Because I knew how to "do the right thing" and "be in the right place" I achieved pretty much everything I set out to achieve. However, my faith had been haemorhaging seriously for some time. But what did it matter what I felt or believed so long as I did the right thing?

There is a heavy emphasis on the church as "family", taught particularly among charismatic, pentecostal, and evangelical churches. This can be accentuated by emphasizing the division between the church and the world. In my own church, the gap between "us" and "them" [including our own blood families] was constantly stressed, to the extent where I myself taught it.

In certain circumstances, particularly for people who have known rejection all their life and who have perhaps never belonged to a loving family, the concept of church as family can be a positive one. But I grew up in a loving family with people who had nurtured me and loved me unconditionally since birth. Yet, I was being taught that the church family was effectively my ONLY family.

Thankfully, circumstances allowed me to learn the true nature of family...

By the time I became the church's youth leader, my loyalty to the church [above all things... even God probably] was naturally assumed. However, an issue arose where I felt it necessary to challenge the Senior Pastor. The ensuing pandemonium resulted in my wife and I, and young son, leaving the church - our "home" of almost 10 years. I shall save the details of the outcome for a future post entitled: "The Curse of Eli: Nepotism in the Modern Church", but am sure you get the idea.

Suffice to say, when the proverbial hit the fan, we realised that "family" within the church context is subject to us submitting unquestionably to the leadership of strangers [do pastors ever truly know their flock?], and NEVER EVER rocking the boat!

****************

I remember apologising in tears to my father that I had put someone in his place, when he himself had always been so good to me. He simply said: "What's to forgive? You're my son!"

Peace,

Zach :)

[Oopsie Daisey]

Zaccheus:

Boy if that don't describe to a T what I went through and my thoughts and my loyalty to the church I am leaving behind. Oh my gosh... when I finally woke up was years before I left the church because I thought I could help the church see...
I remember going over to my parents home when they lived in this area to take care of my grandmother who lived in an apartment they made for her and I remember that I laughed and laughed with my grandma and thought ...how could I have abandoned my family...if they are wrong how are they going to see? So I watched and watched and realized that I needed to give myself to serving others outside of my church whether it was my grandma until she died (thank GOD He woke me up and let me enjoy the last four years of my grandma's life with lots of fun things even though she was wheel chair bound, I would load her my car and run away with her and we would have so much fun) I would have missed the grandma that adored me and gave up so many things for me to have the extras' may parents couldn't afford or I couldn't afford. SHAME and OH such a loss of time.... Then my parents moved 7 hours away and I would have lost those last four years before they moved of doing things and treating them with the money the church had guilted me out of so much by taking them to dinner or to treat them to a day a way ... my parents beg me not to go back to the church because of the 11 years it did steal .... So yes I see your point in my life...


SO yes that is bringing it home to me now and I can see what I done and what was happening and what is still happening with others.


Thanks for the posts...

These have all been helpful.
Melanie

[Turtle]

I remember apologising in tears to my father that I had put someone in his place, when he himself had always been so good to me. He simply said: "What's to forgive? You're my son!"

Peace,

Zach[/COLOR] :)[/QUOTE]

You're a couragous man to tell your dad that, Zach!! That's awesome!

That's how we feel about our kids too, even when it was in the middle of all that kakaditzkee!! One day I told my son after he said his mentor was building him a home(empty promise) to live away from us, that no matter what happened, we were always his parents and the fact that we had given birth to him would never change, and that he would always have our love!!!

Best wishes to you and Kathy and your wee ones!

[ex-shep]

All the best to your daughter-in-law, there is LIFE after cults.



They wre recruitied in a Christian mainline church. That is why most of our friends and aquaintances at the time didn't believe us, till later and the damage was done.

Thankyou for the hope that there is life after cults. I appreciate how you said that about "Christian cults".

Good for you sticking by your parents!


Being a month and half away from celebrating my 20th anniversary of walking out of a pentecostal bible school and the shepherding discipleship movement, there is definitely life. Depression, notwithstanding, life is not bad.

As far as the recruitment in a mainline church, that is very common among shepherding groups. The bible school was adept at infiltrating mainline churches, keeping the name of the church. An attender would be oblivious to the goings on.


Sorry to hear the situation. You sure deserve better.

[Turtle]

Thanks for the encouragement, exshep!!

Hope the havoc from the hurricanes settles down for you guys soon!