Losing My Salvation [Archive] - Christian Recovery Forums

Jesus Loves Me

05-21-2007, 10:08 AM

secrethopes

05-21-2007, 10:52 AM

I'm losing my salvation, I can feel it being ripped from me...Please please please pray for me... ...I went back in and didn't receive any of the message, I felt myself close up. I am angry and more than that I am bitter...I can't seem to let go of the bitterness...I am losing my salvation, please pray for me.

I understand what you are saying, but try to separate out the truth of who Jesus is from those who claim to represent Him. It takes time, but Jesus can bring healing. I don't know if this will help, but it helps me to remember it:

Hebrews 13: 5b-6
God has said, "Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you." So we say with confidence, "The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?"

2 Timothy 2:11-13
Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us; if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

Elisabeth

05-21-2007, 11:08 AM

I'm losing my salvation, I can feel it being ripped from me...Please please please pray for me...

Sunday morning they announced that for the next 2 weeks they were going to have people go to the pulpit and talk about small groups and how they have been helped by them. The first person was someone who was in Sandy's (my former spiritual abusers) small group and he was singing her praises telling everyone how great her bible study was and how everyone should take it. I have no doubt he meant every word he said, she doesn't abuse everyone. She picks out a few to control and abuse.

I got up afterward and stood outside freaking out inside....I went back in and didn't receive any of the message, I felt myself close up. I am angry and more than that I am bitter...I can't seem to let go of the bitterness...I am losing my salvation, please pray for me.

Closing up is normal after something like that happens. It is very hard to feel anything if someone sings the praises of someone who's abused us. It doesn't mean that you are losing your salvation, or even that you are somehow less spiritually because of that. And bitterness from SA can also be due to the fact you need more healing; I know that for me it was! Rom. 8:35 says "Who can separate us from the love of Christ?" Hang on to that. Also, it is not anything bad to go to a different church to be away from a former abuser.

butterfly

05-21-2007, 11:17 AM

[[[[[Jesus Loves Me ]]]]]]]]]

I know that you said you feel that you are losing your salavation.

Gods word says that we can not lose our salavation nor can anyone take it away.

During my abuse I knew I would go to heaven but in my heart I beleaved there was a place for the unworthy. The trash can.

The christians who couldn"t fit in by keeping up with all the laws and rules.

I went to a baptist fundy church.

I feel so deeply sad for you. You feel you are losing your salavation.

When I went thru what you are going thru.

My heart would sink, I would feel very angery to see that someone like your abuser get praises. I had my own abusers who were praised when they were so evil.

That sunshine smile while being praised.
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Evertime they were praised I would sink way inside me and feel so usless.

I would hate God and wish I was dead.

How could He allow such a thing happen.

I never knew that being a Christian would hurt so much. I was always told I was usless growing up but to have abusers stamp the truth on my heart.

Has made me so empty inside.

Well pray for you. I hope this post makes since. I am in a trigger mode.

I am ok its just I been where you are now. I so much know how it feels.
shirley

Elisabeth

05-21-2007, 11:30 AM

I never knew that being a Christian would hurt so much. I was always told I was usless growing up but to have abusers stamp the truth on my heart.

That's what it feels like, doesn't it? When they abuse in the name of God, reiterating what you were told as a child, it feels like they are stamping the truth on your heart.:mad: But it's a lie, even though it was told in the name of God. They are also abusing the name of God when they do that.

Willow

05-21-2007, 11:42 AM

Try not to be so hard on yourself. We're trained to do that... but you are experiencing normal human emotions. Be angry... and sin not. It's OK. WWJD? He'd pull out his whip and kick some tables over... LOL!

I'm losing my salvation, I can feel it being ripped from me...Please please please pray for me...

Sunday morning they announced that for the next 2 weeks they were going to have people go to the pulpit and talk about small groups and how they have been helped by them. The first person was someone who was in Sandy's (my former spiritual abusers) small group and he was singing her praises telling everyone how great her bible study was and how everyone should take it. I have no doubt he meant every word he said, she doesn't abuse everyone. She picks out a few to control and abuse.

I got up afterward and stood outside freaking out inside....I went back in and didn't receive any of the message, I felt myself close up. I am angry and more than that I am bitter...I can't seem to let go of the bitterness...I am losing my salvation, please pray for me.

Elisabeth

05-21-2007, 12:22 PM

abbey

05-21-2007, 01:21 PM

Hang in there. All of us at various times thought we might be losing our salvation. All one needs to do is repent and we are forgiven.

Please remember the scripture that someone posted. He never leaves nor forsakes. Nothing can pluck us from His hand! Hes very very very loving and wishes none to perish! Keep these glorious thing in mind as I pray for you JLM!

Anna Marta

05-21-2007, 03:41 PM

You are NOT losing your salvation!

You are spitting mad and that's exactly what you should be! If only all of us could channel that anger positively instead of against ourselves!!!

Psychopaths do not abuse everyone, they pick and choose those who they sense are threats to them. Actually this means that you are pure in spirit enough and/or talented enough to be someone she needs to shut up and out.

Boy oh boy, do I know how it feels when someone sings the praises of these rotten bullies. It made me sick at my stomach to read about what happened to you. Your description of something being ripped from you is "right on" and I can identify with it - that's how I know it is not your salvation. It is a death of something again... I am so sorry for you and for your pain. I pray for some peace for you as you work through this.

Love and prayers
Anna Marta

Ladybug

05-21-2007, 04:19 PM

Hi,

My heart feels for you as I've read your post and the replies.

We can never loose our salvation--it's permanent. God is not a liar and He will not go back on His Word and "if" He did, He'd no longer be God. :)

Romans 8:28---and the remaining verses of that chapter states that "Nothing can separate me from the love God. Neither death nor life..." Once we have accepted the Lord and have asked for forgiveness of sin, we are eternally secure. Please hang on to this truth from the Bible.

If it were "me," I'd be looking for another church and distance myself from an abuser. I'd not stay in a situation where I might be abused.

I don't know why it's the fundamental Baptist churches ( hopefully) not all seem to be based on legalism and controlling and abusing their congregations. We are set free from the Law in the Old Testament. The Law is given to show that we need a Saviour. The New Testament presents the Saviour and our redemption with His death and resurrection on the cross.

Also keep in mind that Satan still wants to kill and destroy and to cause confusion. He does this by creating doubts in our minds about loosing our salvation. Pray against this stronghold. :)

Know that I'll be praying for you. If you can, try to spend more time reading your Bible. Maybe the Gospel of John. This tells more about Jesus and His love for us.

Jerry

05-21-2007, 11:49 PM

I am losing my salvation, please pray for me.

Nope !!!!,,,,,,,,,,,,you feel betrayed and pissed off,,,,,,,God understands ;) I'll be praying.

Carmen

05-22-2007, 03:53 AM

((Jesus loves me)) I agree with the others, scripture says you cannot lose your salvation. I'll tell you a story I once heard that may give you a picture to hold on to.

A man was going to cross a busy street with his small son. The man told his son to take hold of his father's thumb. After he did that, the father closed his hand around the hand of his son. He told his son, "Don't let go of my thumb while we are crossing the street." But as they were in the middle of the street the boy let go of his father's thumb. They still got over safely, because the father had the rest of his hand enclosed around the hand of his son. He asked him gently, "Why did you let go of my thumb? Why didn't you obey?" The boy said, "I was afraid, I saw all of the cars...." The father told him, "But you were safe with me, son, I would never let go of you no matter what. Next time we'll try again." "Okay, Dad."

Sometimes we let go, but God never does.

I know how it feels to be continuously exposed to an abusive situation, the only thing I can advise from experience is to leave it as soon as possible. That group leader sounds really nasty - and too many are blind to what she is doing there.

Reg

05-22-2007, 05:50 AM

Jesus Love Me,

I had to ponder that question many years ago having come to believe in conditional salvation from my last group. Here is what I have come to believe now.

CAN A PERSON LOSE HIS SALVATION?

No! If he could, then he only had "PROBATION" and not "SALVATION"

The very meaning of "SALVATION" is being saved from the penalty of my sins (which is death in hell)
and instead, possessing eternal life.

If I'm Saved From Hell,
Then I Will Never Be In Hell!
If I have Eternal Life,
Then I Will never Suffer The
Second Death - The Lake Of Fire!

The assurance of our salvation is not left up to reasoning, thank the Lord. God has promised us salvation upon faith in His Son and He keeps His promise all of the way. The guarantee is given in Ephesians 1:13,14 where it is not only written down for us but we have already been given a security deposit -

"IN WHOM (CHRIST) YE ALSO TRUSTED, AFTER THAT YE HEARD THE WORD OF TRUTH, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION; IN WHOM ALSO AFTER THAT YE BELIEVED, WE WERE SEALED WITH HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE, WHICH IS THE EARNEST (DOWN PAYMENT) OF OUR INHERITANCE UNTIL THE REDEMPTION OF THE PURCHASED POSSESSION UNTO THE PRAISE OF HIS
GLORY."

This security deposit lasts until Jesus Christ comes and takes possession of (us) His purchase. By the Holy Spirit, therefore, we are: (Ephesians 4:30)

"...SEALED UNTO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION."

After teaching the doctrine of our salvation in the first eight chapters of the Book of Romans, Paul asks four questions and gives four answers which guarantee that our salvation cannot be lost.

1) Romans 8:31 "IF GOD BE FOR US, WHO CAN BE AGAINST US?"

Paul argues that God has not held anything back from us. He has already
given the dearest thing to Him--His Son--for our salvation. Therefore, if he has already given His Son for us, He is not going to lose us now!

2) Romans 8:33 "WHO SHALL LAY ANYTHING TO THE CHARGE OF GOD'S ELECT?"

Here Paul argues that if it is God who has declared the believer righteous, then no one can say otherwise!

3) Romans 8:34 - "WHO IS HE THAT CONDEMNETH?"

Now Paul argues that if Jesus Christ died to save us, and He is risen, making intercession for us, then no one is capable of lodging a complaint against us.

4) Romans 8:35 - "WHO SHALL SEPARATE US FROM THE LOVE OF CHRIST?"

Finally Paul argues that nothing can separate us from Christ's love.Remember, death is separation from God. The very meaning of not being separated from Christ's love implies not being separated from Him! The reason given for the impossibility of being separated from Jesus Christ is because we are...

"MORE THAN CONQUERORS THROUGH HIM THAT LOVED US"

In Roman 8:38 Paul says he has a settled conviction about Eternal Security. No person, (not an angel nor yourself) will get between Jesus Christ and His love for you. Not even time ("THINGS PRESENT, NOR THINGS TO COME") will change anything. That's security!

* * * * *

Concerning verses that seem to teach a person can lose his salvation, let me say this. there are verses in Matthew, Mark, and Luke that indicate a person must "ENDURE TO THE END" to receive life. The book of Hebrews also warns against "FALLING AWAY." Here again, "RIGHTLY DIVIDING " the Scriptures is a must.

The "enduring to the end" is a reference to the future tribulation that will come upon the earth as a means of judgement upon Israel for rejecting her Messiah. It is also a means whereby God will weed out and destroy the unbelievers from the earth to purify Israel and to set up the promised Kingdom on earth. We who live in this present age of grace will not even be on earth during this time because God has promised that we will "OBTAIN SALVATION"
before this time begins - see I Thessalonians 5:9 and II Thessalonians 2:13, 14. So again, God has completely provided for our security.

Concerning the warning of "falling away" in the book of Hebrews, first know that the Book of Hebrews is written to the Hebrews – Israel. Secondly, the Book of Hebrews follows the Books of Romans through Philemon which are the revelation of the interruption in God's dealings with Israel. When the age of grace is over God will continue where He left off dealing with the nation of Israel. Therefore the Book of Hebrews is a warning to the Nation of Israel not to "fall away" from following Jesus Christ during the tribulation.

According to II Corinthians 6:2, today is not a day of God's wrath (the tribulation); but instead:

"...NOW (TODAY) IS THE DAY OF SALVATION."

----------------------------------

SpinningHead

05-22-2007, 09:16 AM

GOOD NEWS!!! You are not loosing your Salvation!!! Jesus said so Himself!

John 10:27-29

27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

mary

05-22-2007, 09:40 AM

What the others have said is true, JLM: you cannot lose your salvation. God does not break His promises. Enough Scripture has been quoted above to prove that beautiful and blessed point.

A couple of years ago, my husband and I went to a church in our neighborhood that someone told us was "Reformed Baptist." Okay, we thought, we'll just go and check it out. Well, the preacher gave a whole sermon on "how one can lose one's salvation." He skewed and twisted Scripture so bad that it wasn't even recognizable, all towards the end of making people think that if they didn't keep going to that church, they weren't going to be saved. The man was a charlatan and a false shepherd. :mad::mad::mad: My husband and I got up and walked out of the sermon as he was wrapping it up. What a fake!

Absolutely: once saved, always saved! :) :) :)

mary

Reg

05-22-2007, 10:03 AM

Here's some more I have on this, as if there's any doubt any more with all of the great replies so far. :)

ETERNAL SECURITY (Part Two)

I used to think it was possible for a Christian to reject Christ & fall away. But, the more I'm with
Christians that do not have a wcg background, the more I'm seeing that it's most likely not the
case. Here are some scriptures on this.

Joh 10:28 And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever
perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand. (MKJV)

Ro 8:30 But whom He predestinated, these He also called; and whom He
called, those He also justified. And whom He justified, these He also
glorified.

Joh 6:37 All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the [one]
who comes to Me I will in no way cast out.

Ps 138:8 The LORD will perfect [His work] in me; Your mercy, O LORD,
[endures] forever; do not forsake the work of Your own hands.

1Th 5:24 Faithful [is] He who called you, who also will do [it].

1Pe 5:10 ¶ But the God of all grace, He calling us to His eternal glory
by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a little, [He] will perfect,
confirm, strengthen, and establish [you].

1Co 1:8 He shall also confirm you to [the] end, [that you may be]
blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And finally what seems to be the clincher.

*Php 1:6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a
good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ,

Note: And this is an internal work, a work begun "in" the saints; nothing external is this work;
not an outward reformation, which, when right, is the fruit of this good work; nor external
humiliation for sin; nor a cessation from the grosser acts of sin; nor a conformity and submission
to Gospel ordinances;

But the apostle was confident, both for himself and others, that God who has, and wherever he
has begun the good work of grace, will "perform", finish it, or bring it to an end, as the word
here used signifies. The nature of the work itself, which is called living water, because it always
continues, a well of it, because of its abundance, and is said to spring up to eternal life. It is
inseparably connected with it, where there is grace, there will be glory. Grace is the beginning of
glory, and glory the perfection of grace; this work of grace is an incorruptible seed, and which
remains in the saints, and can never be lost; it is a principle of life, the root of which is hid in
Christ, and that itself is maintained by him, and can never be destroyed by men or devils: and
also from the concern God has in it, who is faithful, and will never forsake the work of his
hands, and has power to accomplish it. Who has promised his people, that they shall grow
stronger and stronger, that they shall not depart from him, and he will never leave them.

Moreover, this may be concluded from the indwelling of the Spirit, as a spirit of sanctification, as
the earnest and seal of the inheritance. For if this work is not finished, the glory of God the
Father in election, in the covenant of grace, in the contrivance of salvation, in the mission of his
Son, Christ in redemption, and of the Spirit in sanctification, would be entirely lost: wherefore it
may be depended on, this work will be performed wherever it is begun, and that "until the day of
Jesus Christ" when this work of grace upon the soul will be finished; when Christ shall appear
and raise the dead, and free the bodies of the saints from all their bondage, which will be putting
the last and finishing hand to this good work .

So it sure looks like eternal security to me. I think what we have to come to realize is the fact that
it is God now doing the work in us. His Holy Spirit, although not overpowering & forceful in us,
nonetheless, works in us to think & to do His good will.

Php 2:13 For it is God who works in you both to will and to do of [His] good pleasure.

So you see, although we have free will to decide, we decide to go God's way. The alternative is
basically unthinkable once God's Spirit begins to work in us. Of course anything is possible but
in this case not even remotely probable.

jane

05-22-2007, 10:40 AM

ex-shep

05-22-2007, 11:24 AM

I am unsure as to WHY you feel like you are loosing your salvation?

HOW can it be ripped away from you? I thought it was a gift to begin with....can someone take it away?

Do you think that you are loosing your salvation because you hate the woman who is getting praises from someone else? Or because you walked out?

Sorry, I am just confused because I read nothing in your post that would indicate to me that you are loosing your salvation...........clarify for us, please.

jane

There is scripture twisting which implies you can. I was at a service at Tammy's church in 1983 where II Peter 2.20-22 was twisted to where one could loose his salvation if he left the church. The context is directed to one who heard about the Lord and never accepted him in the first place. I tried to discuss my concerns with the elders, only to be gained up on and forced to recant my position. The twist was you can loose your salvation if you leave the church. Pretty powerful mind control dynamic now, isn't it?

Elisabeth

05-22-2007, 02:48 PM

I'm losing my salvation, I can feel it being ripped from me...Please please please pray for me...

Sunday morning they announced that for the next 2 weeks they were going to have people go to the pulpit and talk about small groups and how they have been helped by them. The first person was someone who was in Sandy's (my former spiritual abusers) small group and he was singing her praises telling everyone how great her bible study was and how everyone should take it. I have no doubt he meant every word he said, she doesn't abuse everyone. She picks out a few to control and abuse.

I got up afterward and stood outside freaking out inside....I went back in and didn't receive any of the message, I felt myself close up. I am angry and more than that I am bitter...I can't seem to let go of the bitterness...I am losing my salvation, please pray for me.

So much has been said here about how we can not lose our salvation, yet it is difficult to see how God still loves us and how we can still be saved even when our spiritual world is falling in around us, as happens with spiritual abuse. The truth is, God still loves us. And James says to let not many people become teachers, because they will incur a stricter judgement. So God does not let the spiritual abusers get away with what they have done. And as for those of us who have been spiritually abused - well, we are not any less in God's eyes because of the abuse, or because of our faith struggles, or our struggles with bitterness, that has resulted from the abuse. God holds us all in his hands. :D

mary

05-22-2007, 04:16 PM

Dear Elisabeth,

As with Peter, Satan "has desired to sift" us, but he can go only so far because God has him on a leash. God loves us very much. Sometimes, He allows us to be in an SA situation "for a season," but His love always prevails: some way, somehow, God Himself pulls us out of that situation.

I think of a little kid playing outside, with his dad nearby, when a terrible thunderstorm is brewing. The little kid says, "But Daddy, this is cool! Look at the sky! The wind is fun! I want to stay outside!" The dad, though, sees the forks of lightning and maybe even a funnel and says, "No. You need to come in the house. Now." The kid, though, doesn't listen... And eventually, big hailstones fall, or a tornado whips up, and the dad finally has to grab the kid by the arm and yank him into the house, where he'll be safe. That yanking can hurt!!!! But worse would have happened to the little one had the dad not done that... A bad father would let his child stay outside during the storm and not yank him to safety. A bad father doesn't care how badly his child is hurt.

Does God care how badly we're hurt? Oh yes, He does! He doesn't want a tornado of spiritual abuse to whip us around and render us totally inactive for His purposes. We're precious to Him because even the least Biblically knowledgeable among us is doing His work. Also, He just loves us because He loves us - and that will never change. So He yanks us out of abusive churches. We say, "Ouch! That hurts!" But God says, "I will never leave you nor forsake you... If I'd left you there, that wouldn't have been in keeping with My character. I LOVE YOU. Look Whom I gave for you! My only begotten Son!"

And all we can do is thank Him and praise Him - yes, even while we hurt...

mary

jane

05-22-2007, 05:13 PM

It is really really sick. I just can not fathom, that is why I asked her.......
Our pastor din't believe in "once saved always saved".........and mocked those who did.

I was one who did.

I just could not put what I knew to be about God into the same catagory as taking away what was given........

My opinion was that we are saved because he first loved us......
that salvation can't be earned; so it can't be lost.
That He is married to the backslider......
That HE is a good shepherd.........Shepherds are reported to break the legs of little lambs that stray, to carry them so that they develop a trust of the shepherd.........and remain safe.........(NO, I Don't mean any shepherd but JESUS as doing that to people, I have heard pastors talk about breaking their sheeps legs in love :mad:)

My opinion, and it isn't scriptural, just gut.........is that the scripture that refers to some getting into heaven like that of some experiencing a fire.....

is referring to SAVED people who couldn't overcome sin and walk with the Lord WHILE ON EARTH......

That people don't ever loose salvation, but their clinging to sinful ways keeps them from experience heaven on earth.

WHY would God call anyone into the kingdom that He knows will "loose" their salvation???? If He is all knowing, He wouldn't torment someone like that.......

anyway, sorry that the poster is enduring such horrific abuse.

Jane

There is scripture twisting which implies you can. I was at a service at Tammy's church in 1983 where II Peter 2.20-22 was twisted to where one could loose his salvation if he left the church. The context is directed to one who heard about the Lord and never accepted him in the first place. I tried to discuss my concerns with the elders, only to be gained up on and forced to recant my position. The twist was you can loose your salvation if you leave the church. Pretty powerful mind control dynamic now, isn't it?

jane

05-22-2007, 05:15 PM

You know, ex-shep,

It was kinda implied that we would loose our salvation now that you mention it..........when we left...........we were told that "satan was going to devour us".............

but you know, we were also told that we would be divorced quickly without their help.........and since we left; we are closer and stronger in marriage because we are not stressed out over serving another master......that church.

We have been gone 3 years now, PRAISE GOD FOR TRUE SPIRITUAL FREEDOM!

jane

SpinningHead

05-22-2007, 05:59 PM

Elisabeth

05-22-2007, 06:48 PM

I think we're talking about someone/something/satan coming and "stealing" our salvation out from under us...

not a person who for whatever reason makes the conscious decision that they do not want to be saved anymore, they do not want to follow God anymore and they are choosing to turn and run from God. They are essentially with conscious throwing their salvation away.

Right?

The Assemblies of God teach what you talked about, that a person could consciously throw your salvation away. I was a member of an Assembly of God church for a long time. I really liked that place; felt safe there. :D
The Baptists (I'm a member of a Baptist church now) and other denominations that teach once saved always saved say that a person who consciously decides they don't want to be saved anymore, say becomes an atheist, probably wasn't saved in the first place. So that can become a really, really deep discussion, deep debate, that has been going on between various groups for hundreds of years! :D Don't think we will solve that question here! :D

But I do think the point that a person can't lose their salvation due to the problems caused by spiritual abuse, and a spiritual abuser can't steal another person's salvation is an important point to be made. :D

ex-shep

05-22-2007, 07:24 PM

SpinningHead

05-22-2007, 08:17 PM

But I do think the point that a person can't lose their salvation due to the problems caused by spiritual abuse, and a spiritual abuser can't steal another person's salvation is an important point to be made. :D

Oh, I personally completely agree!! :)

Your church must have been related to the bible school next state over. They taught the same thing. If they used the line, "you don't have your eyes on Jesus" that would clinch it. :eek:

Oh, no...I wasn't coming from a personal opinion...I was actually just asking for clarification to be sure I was understanding the conversation. I didn't mean to intend or imply that I personally meant anything or was contributing a thought...just making sure I was reading everything correctly. :o

Elisabeth

05-22-2007, 08:59 PM

Your church must have been related to the bible school next state over. They taught the same thing. If they used the line, "you don't have your eyes on Jesus" that would clinch it. :eek:

Who made them God?! The people in the AG church I went to always taught that even if a person has apparently turned their back on their own salvation, we can't know that for sure. Only God knows.
Actually, when it comes down to it, people on both sides can use their beliefs to abuse other Christians. I've heard some on the once saved always saved crowd say that people who are really saved wouldn't do this or that, or - here's my favorite - if a person believes that they can lose their salvation, they aren't really saved. To that I asked if a person has to know and understand the doctrine of once saved always saved in order to be saved. The person I was talking to said no. I said, so then what about the person who was saved and then decided they believed that a person could lose their salvation. The reaction to that was fun! :D
I do believe in once saved, always saved, btw. It's just that I have heard that position abused. Nothing of God should be abused like that.

Elisabeth

05-22-2007, 09:21 PM

Guess I got triggered by this. The reason is my SA pastor taught so strongly that we couldn't lose our salvation, and that the Christians who believed they could were so misled.:mad: That was one of the things that kept me in there. I didn't want to leave and fall into a church where I would be misled! :(

Willow

05-23-2007, 10:44 AM

I can't help but notice the contrast between the title of this thread and the name "Jesus Loves Me". One sit over the other on my screen.

I have the same internal conflict... it's like 2 people inside me arguing... Jesus Loves me... Jesus Hates me. And my lips never utter a word. It's all in my head. It's a wonder our head's don't spin and fall off our necks!

I'm in that kind of a conflict this morning. Saying hard things to myself... rejectful things. Then... patching them up and reminding myself that I am my beloved's and he is mine. It's a real war. How fragile is the love of God anyway? Can it be broken by merely stepping over a line? Can we step on a crack and break God's back? It starts feeling like superstition rather than faith when I look at it that way.

The love of God has to be bigger, stronger, wider, and more enduring than this. Surely he doesn't shoot his own wounded.

This is reminding me of a hymn we sang at church. It was found penned on the wall of an insane asylum. Here's the words:

1. The love of God is greater far
Than tongue or pen can ever tell;
It goes beyond the highest star,
And reaches to the lowest hell;
The guilty pair, bowed down with care,
God gave His Son to win;
His erring child He reconciled,
And pardoned from his sin.
* Refrain:
Oh, love of God, how rich and pure!
How measureless and strong!
It shall forevermore endure—
The saints’ and angels’ song.
2. When hoary time shall pass away,
And earthly thrones and kingdoms fall,
When men who here refuse to pray,
On rocks and hills and mountains call,
God’s love so sure, shall still endure,
All measureless and strong;
Redeeming grace to Adam’s race—
The saints’ and angels’ song.
3. Could we with ink the ocean fill,
And were the skies of parchment made,
Were every stalk on earth a quill,
And every man a scribe by trade;
To write the love of God above
Would drain the ocean dry;
Nor could the scroll contain the whole,
Though stretched from sky to sky.

ex-shep

05-23-2007, 10:54 AM

[QUOTE=Elisabeth;50125]Who made them God?! The people in the AG church I went to always taught that even if a person has apparently turned their back on their own salvation, we can't know that for sure. Only God knows.

I can side with the AG. I had one of the bible school ladies, on the bus, push me past my limits when she insisted I did not have my eyes on Jesus. I exploded at the not so well meaning busybody "the fact I had my eyes on Jesus is why I left in the first place. How dare you question my salvation. If you have a problem with my salvation, you are going to have to take it up with the Lord". Now one knows why I moved out of state.

SNJC

05-24-2007, 09:16 AM

I am not really a believer of the "once saved, always saved" that most seem to be here. What I believe is that salvation is not something that God chooses to take away from us, but rather we make a conscious choice to give it back.

Charles Templeton was Billy Graham's original preaching partner. Billy Grahams's success can be attributed to his beginnings with this guy. Yet, he is now proclaiming to be an atheist. This was a choice he made.

So, don't give in to satan! Stay strong by studying God's word daily and pray, pray, pray! That is how your relationship becomes stronger. Don't you feel closer to your friends the more you talk to them and get to know them? And then God speaks back to you through His Word- the Bible.:D

Reg

05-24-2007, 09:50 AM

Nice opinion SNJC.

However, what does the Bible clearly say?

Elisabeth

05-24-2007, 10:42 AM

Nice opinion SNJC.

However, what does the Bible clearly say?

Once saved, always saved, or can a person deliberately throw away their own salvation has been a subject for debate for hundreds of years!:D

mary

05-24-2007, 11:06 AM

Did we cause our physical birth? Can we somehow negate the fact that it happened?

Our physical existence was ordained by God from before the foundation of the earth.

So, too, was our spiritual birth. We didn't cause it; He did. And we can't negate the fact that it happened.

mary

Reg

08-05-2010, 08:21 AM

Looking back over some emails I wrote years ago on a mailing list I was on I read this one. It reminded me of where I was and the affect the church I exited had on me coming to believe in this doctrine.

Re: "ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED" not true - your ETERNAL SECURITY may be SHORT-LIVED.
Sunday, 14-Nov-1999

See my posting just above for some quotes from "Further Reading"
Friday, 12-Nov-1999 17:48:55

Good point Mark. Once I changed my belief to that of Eternal Security, it changed my relationship with Jesus a lot. When I thought my salvation was conditional on my obedience, I used to struggle with certain areas in my life that I thought I would never overcome. It caused me a lot of anxiety and guilt feelings. I felt I would never measure up, but I had NO choice, I had to keep trying. What was the alternative? I just couldn't give up and there were plenty of times I sure felt like it.

I left the wcg at one point for almost a year. I just couldn't stand the pressure any longer to perform and to pretend when I knew what I was doing. The guilt of being a hypocrite was killing me and I had to stop pretending so I left to work things out & get away from all those who kept judging others' actions. It was such a pressured place to be with all the law keepers and the judging of each other going on. It wasn't talked about a lot, but we all knew the way we were supposed to act. There was always "the unspoken (implied) code of conduct we followed. I couldn't take it any longer. I went on a motorcycle trip and when I came back home just never went back to church.

Now that I believe in Eternal Security, it has made all the difference to me. I don't have to perform any longer. I now sense a peace and freedom from guilt that wasn't possible before. It was much easier to overcome those areas that seemed to plague me before. I seemed to have more energy and just felt happier and much closer to my Saviour than I ever thought possible. I am able to do things now out of a real heart-felt desire that seems to be almost effortless. All the things I have done and been involved with in the last couple of years even astonishes me at times.

I really don't think I've done that much, yet a lot has been done. I've come to learn that it's really not me so much doing it on my own. I know the Holy Spirit is doing it through me. I just have to be willing to let Him live and work in my life. Knowing that my Salvation is secure frees up a lot of energy to DO the work. I know there are scriptures telling me that but I never experienced it much before because I was trying so hard to be good and obey the law. It turned into more of a burden than a way to love my neighbour. I always knew that was Christ's command to us but I didn't know how I could do that being burdened down with all my inadequacies trying to obey the law.There just didn't seem to be much strength or energy left over to do that. I mainly went through the motions. I know that a lot of others did also. U could just tell. If they really loved me than they would have not treated me the way they did when I started seeing things differently and eventually left. It was like I fell of the planet. After 29 years & knowing literally hundreds of people, all I heard was SILENCE. That said it all and proved to me that they really didn't love me. It's completely different where I am now. They're still human with all their problems but they are genuine about how they feel. The atmosphere is completely different. I think Mark knows what I mean. He met several from our E-Team at Willow Creek. They are a great bunch. I really love them and I know they feel the same about me.

This turned out to be a lot longer than I planned but it just kept coming. I hope it clears up for a few, where I'm coming from in regard to the 10 Commandments. There had to be more.

Reg