Not sure to make of this one

[ex-shep]

http://www.rickross.com/reference/fundamentalists/fund220.html

I used to be gung ho behind this one. Now I am not sure. I will send this up flagpole and see who salutes. It will be interesting what comments generate

[Willow]

I'll have to focus on it a bit more tomorrow... but I just posted about the son of a fundamentalist pastor. I think he's moved away from blanket religion statements to a more personal and private belief system. Leaving the judging up to God. I like that style a lot. Not sure if this has anything to do with the topic at hand... but it's the response that triggered in my mind at this moment.

[ex-shep]

I'll have to focus on it a bit more tomorrow... but I just posted about the son of a fundamentalist pastor. I think he's moved away from blanket religion statements to a more personal and private belief system. Leaving the judging up to God. I like that style a lot. Not sure if this has anything to do with the topic at hand... but it's the response that triggered in my mind at this moment.

Nothing wrong with passing on a topic. I have had to pass up on posts which were over my head. Sounds like you had a week and a half.

[Elisabeth]

http://www.rickross.com/reference/fundamentalists/fund220.html

I used to be gung ho behind this one. Now I am not sure. I will send this up flagpole and see who salutes. It will be interesting what comments generate

Makes me mad. You can see how these people have been spiritually abused. So they decide to leave everything behind, not seeing that Christ is the Good News. Anyway, this stuff about fundamentalism triggers the hell out of me. Is it possible to grow to the point of not being triggered?

[ex-shep]

Makes me mad. You can see how these people have been spiritually abused. So they decide to leave everything behind, not seeing that Christ is the Good News. Anyway, this stuff about fundamentalism triggers the hell out of me. Is it possible to grow to the point of not being triggered?

Good question. It took me a good long time to take things in context. I had to learn not to react to the triggers.

[Anna Marta]

I wish there was a difference between "being a Fundamentalist" and believing in the fundamental teachings of scripture.

In my opinion, there is a HUGE difference!

Anna Marta

[mary]

I wish there was a difference between "being a Fundamentalist" and believing in the fundamental teachings of scripture.

In my opinion, there is a HUGE difference!

Anna Marta

AMEN!

There are many of us who believe in the fundamental teachings of Scripture, but we don't fit any of the definitions of "fundamentalist" as, basically, the mainstream media has established them in the minds of "the world" and even fundamentalists themselves. I'm one of them, that's for sure. This turns Christian against Christian and causes divisions in the Body of Christ. This shouldn't be.

It's a work of the devil that lies and calls wrong what is right, and right what is wrong (Isaiah 5:20). And that's what's happened with the very word "fundamentalism" and its variants.

I could write more about this, but I've got work to do today! :):):)

Love,

mary

[ex-shep]

I could write more about this, but I've got work to do today! :):):)

Love,

mary[/QUOTE]


I can appreciate setting priorities and taking a break. If you feel like elaorating on the post, I would be interested.

[Elisabeth]

AMEN!

There are many of us who believe in the fundamental teachings of Scripture, but we don't fit any of the definitions of "fundamentalist" as, basically, the mainstream media has established them in the minds of "the world" and even fundamentalists themselves. I'm one of them, that's for sure. This turns Christian against Christian and causes divisions in the Body of Christ. This shouldn't be.

It's a work of the devil that lies and calls wrong what is right, and right what is wrong (Isaiah 5:20). And that's what's happened with the very word "fundamentalism" and its variants.

I could write more about this, but I've got work to do today! :):):)

Love,

mary

I agree, Mary. I believe in the fundamental truths of scripture; the two denominations that I have been part of in my Christian walk are both considered pretty conservative in that respect. However, one denomination gets no respect whatsoever from the churches that call themselves "fundamentalist" and the other, well, they like a lot of the teachings but are against the "contemparary worship" and the eucumenialism that a lot of the churches in the denomination are starting to embrace. And your right, the body of Christ should not be divided this way. I know I'm triggered enough by fundamentalism that I myself am slanted in an unhealthy way against them. :o

[ex-shep]

I agree, Mary. I believe in the fundamental truths of scripture; the two denominations that I have been part of in my Christian walk are both considered pretty conservative in that respect. However, one denomination gets no respect whatsoever from the churches that call themselves "fundamentalist" and the other, well, they like a lot of the teachings but are against the "contemparary worship" and the eucumenialism that a lot of the churches in the denomination are starting to embrace. And your right, the body of Christ should not be divided this way. I know I'm triggered enough by fundamentalism that I myself am slanted in an unhealthy way against them. :o

It drove me to the Unitarians for a bit. I grew up in a liberal Quaker background which gave me some breathing room. I found myself at odd with the political slants.

It did take me a long time to trust anything evangelical. Even mainline churches felt threatening. There were a couple of Christian radio programmes I was comfortable. It was a few trials and misses, but eventually my wife and I found a good church in Texas and now Ohio. I have no easy answers. It just got easier with time.

[Carmen]

I've met ex-fundies that have become ex-Christians on the net, they are some of the most bitter people I have encountered.

My last brush with fundamentalism did make me shy away from it a lot, though I never gave up on God, He was always a given for me.

I agree with Anna Marta and Mary, that there must be a way to believe in the fundamentals without being part of what today is called fundamentalism. I just tried to explain this to my parents the other day. I am not politically conservative (that is one of the unwritten necessities to be fundy these days I think) and don't believe in all of the five fundamentals. Nevertheless I am born again and practice Christianity - following the teaching of my Lord Jesus Christ as in the gospels.

For a list of the five fundamentals:

http://www.pcahistory.org/documents/deliverance.html

A more concise list is here (and some provocative stuff):

http://neovox.cortland.edu/oldsite/vox/vox_87/vox_87.html

Info/definition fundamentalism:

http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/fund.html

'Nother article for speculation:

http://www.wayoflife.org/otimothy/tl050006.htm

[Jerry]

Fundamentalism = Religion without the following elements......Love,Respect,Peace,Tolerance,Compass ion,Cognitive Thought,Common Sense.....Theres no sex,no spit,no falling on the floor hilarity ,no anger, no nothing :(

[Elisabeth]

Fundamentalism = Religion without the following elements......Love,Respect,Peace,Tolerance,Compass ion,Cognitive Thought,Common Sense.....Theres no sex,no spit,no falling on the floor hilarity ,no anger, no nothing :(

Glad that a lot of other people share my thoughts of fundamentalism! I think it tends to be pharasical rule led religion.

[Ladybug]

Hey,

I read the article about the group who attended the workshop.

What I didn't understand or didn't see written was anything pertaining to a personal growing relationship with the Lord. Or maybe they hadn't gotten that far, since they were coming out of all the negative and unscriptual teaching.

I do believe there is a literal hell and when one chooses not to accept Christ. Then they have made their final choice in where they will spend eternity. Christ does give us a "free will" to decide. He didn't make us like robots as far as serving Him.

I do believe that the blood of Christ had to be shed for the remission of sin, because without the shedding of His blood there is no remission of sin. Sin is anything/anyone that comes between me and my relationship with the Lord.

So from this article, are these people going from fundamentalism to the extreme opposite? Are they focusing on " God is love and He'd never send anyone to hell." type of attitude? Can you help me out and explain?

I appreciate you posting that link.

[Hope 98]

Hey,

I read the article about the group who attended the workshop.

What I didn't understand or didn't see written was anything pertaining to a personal growing relationship with the Lord. Or maybe they hadn't gotten that far, since they were coming out of all the negative and unscriptual teaching.

I do believe there is a literal hell and when one chooses not to accept Christ. Then they have made their final choice in where they will spend eternity. Christ does give us a "free will" to decide. He didn't make us like robots as far as serving Him.

I do believe that the blood of Christ had to be shed for the remission of sin, because without the shedding of His blood there is no remission of sin. Sin is anything/anyone that comes between me and my relationship with the Lord.

So from this article, are these people going from fundamentalism to the extreme opposite? Are they focusing on " God is love and He'd never send anyone to hell." type of attitude? Can you help me out and explain?

I appreciate you posting that link.

I didn't quite understand the article myself. I also think that a lot of words like "fundamental" have different meanings to different people. "Fundamentalist" has come to have an implication of intolerance by association with intolerant people who call themselves fundamentalist and do so loudly. The word fundamental means:

Something that is an essential or necessary part of a system or object.I hope you are getting what I'm struggling to say.

As far as "God wouldn't send anyone to hell" thinking - my understanding is that He doesnt "send" anyone to hell - it is a choice that people make when they reject salvation. God simply doesn't force them into heaven. That is, however, a whole different can of worms!

[Ladybug]

I was brought up in conservative fundamental churches. For me this mean, wearing no jeans/slacks, no swimming with mixed group. Attend all the services. Witness and go out on visitation. Do devotions preferably in the mornings even though I'm a "night" person. There was a lot a negative implications. No real joy and couldn't really have fun. For me fun is using play on words. When I played piano for services, couldn't get "carried away" with a good fast tempo...No emphasis on having a growing relationship with the Lord.

Thankfully when I went to Bible College, the school wasn't as "fundamental." Yes, I was taught the fundamentals of scripture and basic doctrine. I was "free" to ask questions to learn. So when I'd return for summer breaks, I began to see difference.

When I finally moved out on my own, at first I stayed close to what I'd been brought up with until I began to go to another church with a friend of mine.

Finally, where I'm at presently, is what I believe the Lord has for me. The atmosphere is positive and caring. The church motto is" Love acceptance and forgiveness." I have seen this in action, too. I feel that I am in a safe place. My friends do accept me. Yet, I know Pastor holds to basic doctrine , but it's done in a positive way. No "false guilt." The only guilt is if the Holy Spirit is speaking to you. It's not based on "performance." I feel that the Lord is helping me to grow -and to recover more as a result of being in Cornerstone.


Question--did you find it difficult to understand the plan of salvation while in a fundamental church? I know I didn't fully understand until I was a Junior in Bible College and was in one of my Christian Ed. classes. The Holy Spirit enabled me to understand not with just my head but with my heart. :) Things have not been the same since then. :) The resaon I ask this question is because I've had some friends who came to understand salvation after they no longer were in a fundamental church.
I'll look up those web links later. Maybe this will help others to "see" where I've come from and where I'm at presently.

[mary]

AMEN!

There are many of us who believe in the fundamental teachings of Scripture, but we don't fit any of the definitions of "fundamentalist" as, basically, the mainstream media has established them in the minds of "the world" and even fundamentalists themselves. I'm one of them, that's for sure. This turns Christian against Christian and causes divisions in the Body of Christ. This shouldn't be.

It's a work of the devil that lies and calls wrong what is right, and right what is wrong (Isaiah 5:20). And that's what's happened with the very word "fundamentalism" and its variants.



The very word "fundamentalist" has lost its meaning. It needs to be expunged from civil and ecclesiastical discourse. Once upon a time, it may have had favorable connotations (but I'm too young to remember when, and anyway, even if I'm really not, I was being raised in Irish-American Catholicism and so "fundamentalists/Baptists/Protestants" were our sworn enemies) but for as long as I can recall, the term "fundamentalist" has only been used in pejorative contexts. It needs to go entirely. It has long passed its expiration date.

[/quote=ex-shep]

I can appreciate setting priorities and taking a break. If you feel like elaorating on the post, I would be interested.

[/quote]

"Fundamentalists," as I understand it and as the doctrine has been promulgated in the popular media and by mainline and most popular, evangelical churches (which are one and the same, as far as I can see), believe in salvation by works, along with the atonement of Christ on the cross, the latter of which made salvation possible for anyone but guaranteed for no one. According to fundamentalism, theoretically, if no one "accepts the free gift of salvation," then, it is possible that no one on earth would be or is saved. Period. Fundamentalists believe that Christ efficaciously saved no one; that He chose no one (thus ignoring John 15:16, among many other verses). Wow. What a loving God: :cool: :eek:. What about Romans 9? Ephesians 2 - and so many other passages? If you are a fundamentalist in that sense, then why are you even reading the Bible? It's a pack of lies about some phony "covenant," isn't it? (Compare Genesis 15:1, KJV.) Starting at Genesis 3:15, real "fundamentalists" should just tear up their "Bibles" and walk away from "religion." They'd probably be happier as Opus Dei Catholics, if the truth be told.

I haven't made it a secret here - although I used to, because I was afraid - that I believe in TULIP. I don't consider that God gave me freedom in that; the Holy Spirit got with my spirit and taught me some things. In just 15 years, I've come from liberal, more or less agnostic Catholicism to where I am today, and that's nothing short of a miracle. All I know is that the love of God never leaves anyone who's really His; it's there forever and one can never escape from the One who loves us unfailingly (Psalm 139). It's not up to me to convince people of the truth of Reformed doctrine; that's the job of the Holy Spirit and so I leave it to Him.

I have freedom in Christ to do what I want to do; unfortunately I sin every day, but the Spirit convicts me of that sin and I try not to repeat it. I know it's forgiven (1 John 1:9). Some glorious day, when I go home, I will no longer sin. I believe in the regulative principle of worship because it's in the Bible. (2 Samuel 6:6-7 et alii.) I believe in the headcovering because it's in 1 Corinthians 11:2-15; I've done the research and I believe in it. I've taken TONS of ridicule from Christian women (and men) just for believing in the headcovering (I don't talk about it; I just do it).

There is no comfort in fundamentalism. There's no assurance in it. There is assurance of God's love and care, His deliverance from sin and infirmity, His constant presence throughout life's difficulties, His presence with and assistance to us while we're witnessing to the lost, etc. in the real Gospel. The trappings of what's known as fundamentalism these days constitute a false Gospel and I want nothing to do with it. Why would ANYONE want anything to do with something like that?

I don't know if, on this earth and with common, coarse, unbelieving, vulgar society permeating even the purest intent to exercise and promote the real Gospel of Jesus Christ, there can even exist a Gospel-preaching, Christ-exalting, non-abusive, loving assembly of believers. The pessimist in me seriously doubts it, but the "never-say-die" optimist in me (which usually overcomes the pessimist) says YES - and so I forge ahead with the new mission church attempt. No church is perfect - but is there one that comes close? CAN there be? I don't know. We may wind up with a house church yet.

All of the above - just take what you want and leave the rest. I leave the Holy Spirit to His work, which is perfect. Mine never is.

Love to all (yeah, from a Calvinist! - :D),

mary

[ex-shep]

I was reading the responses. Good food for thought. Will try some more flagpole posts again like that.

There are those who were so badly abused that atheism or no church involvement is the best route for them. I have been around enough Cult Recovery conferences to see the mindset. I was there from 1984-c2002.
I actually was in panel discussion in a recovery conference on perspectives of Higher Power. We had an evangelical music director, a talk show host with an Eastern perspective, and I with a rationalistic approach to recovery.

The churches in Texas and the one attend today in Ohio is unabashedly evangelical, but free of the trappings which gave us fits. I can provide off forum links if interested. While in Texas I gradually gravitated back to my evangelical roots without the trappings of the shepherding movement.

It is interesting how the forum evolved in that respect as well. The original forum, which was destroyed by a computer hacker, had a laissez faire approach to the Higher Power. Since the move over to Christian recovery, it has had a moderate approach to establishing a relationship with the Lord.
There has been an unwritten purpose of finding spiritual life after a bad group.

[Reg]

Ex-shep,

I think Jerry condensed it very well.........

Fundamentalism = Religion without the following
elements......Love,Respect,Peace,Tolerance,Compass ion,Cognitive Thought,Common
Sense.....Theres no sex,no spit,no falling on the floor hilarity ,no anger, no nothing

My experience with them is that they are close-minded. They are intellectual Christians. They
believe that they have the only truth. There is no growth in their understanding. It is a closed
theology. It’s like the song, “Where Is The Love?”

I have a saying on my office wall......

DON’T CONFUSE ME WITH THE FACTS - MY MIND IS MADE UP!