Is anyone else almost ashamed of the title "pastor"?

[Blownaway]

I've been in ministry many years and my calling came at an early age. I dreamed of loving, serving and helping God's people and reaching the lost. I looked up to my pastor and respected his calling. It never occured to me that one day I would almost look at the title, pastor, like "used car salesman" or "personal injury lawyer". In a church where no one dares refer to the senior pastor as anything other than, "Pastor", I refer to myself as my first name. It just makes me sick to see the arrogance and pride. Our pastor looks at himself like an Emperor who rules over his people. There are more rules and mandates on the people and the staff at this church than any other I've ever been.

The word, "pastor" tastes bad in my mouth!!!

[ex-shep]

I've been in ministry many years and my calling came at an early age. I dreamed of loving, serving and helping God's people and reaching the lost. I looked up to my pastor and respected his calling. It never occured to me that one day I would almost look at the title, pastor, like "used car salesman" or "personal injury lawyer". In a church where no one dares refer to the senior pastor as anything other than, "Pastor", I refer to myself as my first name. It just makes me sick to see the arrogance and pride. Our pastor looks at himself like an Emperor who rules over his people. There are more rules and mandates on the people and the staff at this church than any other I've ever been.

The word, "pastor" tastes bad in my mouth!!!

It does bring the saying once burned twice shy to mind. Anybody who has followed my adventures over the years read about the nuttiness at Metro Airlines. Not all MA employees have horns in their heads. I have had many nice flights with them and will fly them in the future. I do cringe when I see one of their regional jets on final approach into CLE. Fortunately I choose to be free to move about the country.

I have had my share of nutty groups. I have also known pastors who humbly seek the Lord and try to do the next right thing. The senior pastor in the church in Texas was aware of his failings and tried to keep an honest pulse on the situation-- which is not bad considering he started in the group when it was in the most virulent of shepherding. I have been in churches where I love the pastor, but the staff and elders practically drove me to becoming a card carrying atheist. So pastors come in all shapes and sizes. It took me years to undo the operant conditioning of believing all pastors had secret connections with Honest Al's Used Car Emporium and Mortuary. So you are in good company with your plight.

[mary]

I've been in ministry many years and my calling came at an early age. I dreamed of loving, serving and helping God's people and reaching the lost. I looked up to my pastor and respected his calling. It never occured to me that one day I would almost look at the title, pastor, like "used car salesman" or "personal injury lawyer". In a church where no one dares refer to the senior pastor as anything other than, "Pastor", I refer to myself as my first name. It just makes me sick to see the arrogance and pride. Our pastor looks at himself like an Emperor who rules over his people. There are more rules and mandates on the people and the staff at this church than any other I've ever been.

The word, "pastor" tastes bad in my mouth!!!

Dear Blownaway,

That breaks my heart, that you would look upon the title "pastor" as "used car salesman" or "P. I. lawyer." (I used to be a "hired gun" - a pleadings and brief-writer - for P.I. lawyers, before the Lord saved me.) How traumatized you've been, Blownaway!!!! Oh, my!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: Absolutely heart-breaking and very discouraging.

At the church I was thrown out of, "pastor" encouraged people to call him by the diminutive form of his first name, i.e., with the "y" on the end, as in "Johnny." "John" wasn't "pastor's" first name, but you get the idea. He would also have people refer to him as "Mr. *******," because that's how they do it in Europe, where he came from. I couldn't bring myself to call him anything but the non-diminutive form of his first name and so that's what I called him. Didn't matter, though: he was still "The Emperor." And I was finally, as he told me in that last phone call, "forever beyond (his) forgiveness and reconciliation." :( :( :(

May the Lord give you His special peace, Blownaway, and may He remind you of His love for you constantly...

mary

[yeshua'smags]

You have nothing to be ashamed of, and no reason to feel like a "used car salesman" because YOU SEE THE TRUTH!!! You are way out of their league! ;) :cool:

[Anna Marta]

I don't allow the word pastor to leave a bad taste in my mouth because some jerks entered the ministry any more than I allow the word doctor to upset me because there are quacks out there practicing medicine.

You are a GOOD PASTOR and are presently dealing with your reactions to the jerk leading that church.

One of the biggest challenges we "good Christians" have is how to get our light out from under the basket and back up on top of the hill where it belongs.

The FACT is that we are NOT going to change the bad guys or the bad system. Interestingly enough, neither did Jesus and He was God!

The only thing I can think to do is exactly what Jesus did, starting doing it right and let the people come to you. That is why I started the thread on what is a church. If we don't know WHAT a church is, how can we do it, let alone do it right?

Fellow struggler
Anna Marta

[ex-shep]

I don't allow the word pastor to leave a bad taste in my mouth because some jerks entered the ministry any more than I allow the word doctor to upset me because there are quacks out there practicing medicine.

You are a GOOD PASTOR and are presently dealing with your reactions to the jerk leading that church.

One of the biggest challenges we "good Christians" have is how to get our light out from under the basket and back up on top of the hill where it belongs.

The FACT is that we are NOT going to change the bad guys or the bad system. Interestingly enough, neither did Jesus and He was God!

The only thing I can think to do is exactly what Jesus did, starting doing it right and let the people come to you. That is why I started the thread on what is a church. If we don't know WHAT a church is, how can we do it, let alone do it right?

Fellow struggler
Anna Marta

The forum is a start. There is power in prayer [apologies to any members triggered] for those who are comfortable with it.

[SpinningHead]

Is the word "pastor" used in the Bible?
Where do we get that word from anyways?
Does anyone know?

[Jerry]

. I dreamed of loving, serving and helping God's people and reaching the lost.

Dear PASTOR Blownaway,,, ;)

The calling of a "Pastor" isn't to fight the battles that can be won...........It's to fight the battles that need fighting ......................The "Father" knows what you dream about,,,,thats why He choose you ;)
Love Jerry

[jane]

I too have a bad taste in my mind for the term pastor....and wonder where it came from.

I was in a loving church where the pastor directed us to call him by his name as he felt the postition of pastor.......well, he called himself a teacher, and said that his calling was no more significant than that of the worshipper, childcare provider etc........that we were all just servants of the Lord. He kinda reminded me of the story in the bible when God's people saw the angel and bowed, and the angel said, get up and don't worship me only God.

The church that we were abused in; well often he spoke from the pulpit and his people would tell us in our small group trainings.......how DISRESPECTFUL it is not to call a Pastor, Pastor.........it was a form of disrespect for the office.

.....should've left then.

Blownaway, there is no reason to be called pastor is you are not comptfortable- maybe it is the prickings of the holy spirit for all I know.

I do know that if I am not comptfortable being called something, doesn't matter what my reason; I speak up these days.

jane

[mary]

Is the word "pastor" used in the Bible?
Where do we get that word from anyways?
Does anyone know?

I use the King James Bible, and "pastor" or "pastors" is in there 9 times: Jeremiah 17:16, Jeremiah 2:8, 3:15, 10:21, 12:10, 22:22, 23:1, 2 and Ephesians 4:11. "Shepherd(s)" appears in Ezekiel 34. I have no problem with the word, just the fact that nowadays, the title is too often conferred upon some men who obviously have no calling to the office, nor any heart for God's people - nor any reasonable testimony that they themselves have a changed heart.

It's very, very sad...

mary

[Willow]

Does anyone know the greek base word when pastor is used each time? Just curious. I know there's one called diakonis or something like that. It means servant.

[jane]

Mary-

How is that used in the new testatament? Is is the same word as priest in the old?

See, it is my understanding that in the old testament there was a need for a priest to intercede due to the fall of man; but that Jesus became the new covenant- that the veil was torn in half- that we no longer needed a priest but could come to the father under the new covenant. Wasn't something written about him being the priest from a different order?

The leaders in the new testament appear to me to be called by their first name....ie, Paul.

jane

[jane]

Willow-

along the line of your thoughts- I would also add that Jesus said the first would be last and the last would be first.........Jesus washed the feet of his disciples.

Much of what I see occuring in the church today is everyone washing the feet of the Pastor- giving him money beyond what they can give- serving him with a level of idoltry that they are confusing him for God himself.

Very few times do I see the Pastor giving his life for God's people, in fact, I see them also beliving that they are more chosen by God, or more significant in God's eyes then the common believer.

jane

[mary]

Mary-

How is that used in the new testatament? Is is the same word as priest in the old?

See, it is my understanding that in the old testament there was a need for a priest to intercede due to the fall of man; but that Jesus became the new covenant- that the veil was torn in half- that we no longer needed a priest but could come to the father under the new covenant. Wasn't something written about him being the priest from a different order?

The leaders in the new testament appear to me to be called by their first name....ie, Paul.

jane

Gee, I don't know, Jane... Sorry. I wouldn't think it would be the same as the Hebrew word for "priest" in the OT, for only the priest was to enter the Holy of Holies. In apposition to that, as we all know, the veil in the temple was torn at Jesus's crucifixion, thereby signaling the access that we all now have to the throne of grace and that the Father of our Savior is now our Father, too...

There's also the idea in the NT that "the greatest among you should be the least," and the stark imagery of Jesus washing the disciples' feet as an example of how we should treat each other. Additionally, there's the instruction by Jesus of "whatsoever you do for the least of these, this you do unto Me..." I think you're right: pastors are to serve the sheep as well as to feed and shepherd them in right paths.

Maybe someone else here who knows Greek could fill in that info you asked for above...

BTW, I'm so glad you've posted this: I've been thinking about you lately and wondering how you're feeling these days... :) :) :) I certainly hope you're feeling quite wonderful!

mary

[Elisabeth]

Very few times do I see the Pastor giving his life for God's people, in fact, I see them also beliving that they are more chosen by God, or more significant in God's eyes then the common believer.

jane

My SA pastor was definately like that, and not only that, he's got his followers believing that too!!!:mad: :(
I remember asking his daughter, one time, while I ws still going to that church, if she knew why her dad decided to become a pastor. She said that it was because he thought he wasn't doing "enough" for God, and that was what he felt like God wanted him to do. He also confided to me he felt like his church was too small, and the people weren't spiritually mature enough, for him. :( :mad: Not that he did anything to help!

[jane]

Mary-

feeling good these days, baby is kicking up a storm. I find myself tired from too many work hours is all, trying to cut back but waiting for approval from my boss.

:)

jane

[jane]

He also confided to me he felt like his church was too small, and the people weren't spiritually mature enough, for him.


My husband and I often joke about this kind of thing. Our pastor also thought the body was holding him back from going forward in the things that God called him to. Funny, if you are the shepherd of these people, would God call you to walk faster then them ??

What we joke about- and he's not here to tell me where it is in the bible- is a scripture that we found one day. Someone in the Old Testament (may have been Solomon? Or David) is found to be saying that his loins are larger than his fathers finger..... hehehe you know the old "my ----- is bigger than your -----" that some men get caught up in.

That is what I think about when I hear pastors bragging about numbers of their church, size of their building, scope of land that they have traveled to, dollars that their ministry brings in........

pride?

Wonder how that is following in the image of our Lord.

jane

[mary]

My SA pastor was definately like that, and not only that, he's got his followers believing that too!!!:mad: :(
He also confided to me he felt like his church was too small, and the people weren't spiritually mature enough, for him. :( :mad: Not that he did anything to help!

Wow. These SA pastors are so much alike, aren't they? :mad:

Five days after "pastor" threw me out of the church (and with me, my husband and our son), a friend told me that he yelled from the pulpit at the 24 remaining adult members, most of whom were over 60, "This church should be filled! And it's your fault that it's not!" Beg pardon? :D :eek: :D

Another time, when "pastor" and I used to have our marathon "counseling" sessions (3 or so hours, just he and I; he'd talk mostly about himself and so they were mostly for his benefit, and they constituted our weekly "date," much to my present shame), he told me that he was very disappointed in the preaching of another minister who used to visit regularly and preach from his pulpit. "His Christology is all askew... I can't believe what a dumb sermon that was last Sunday, or how stupid my own congregation is that so many people came up to me afterwards and told me how much they liked his sermon." What a guy! :mad: :eek: It so happened that I was doing the bulletin at the time... It would have been so easy just to add a paragraph in the next bulletin to the effect of, "Mr. ****** is very disappointed that so many of us were blessed by Mr. ******'s sermon last Sunday. He requests that we disregard that sermon and instead, consider only his pronouncements from the pulpit as doctrinally sound." "Pastor" wouldn't have seen it until it had been distributed among the congregation. I was "too late smart..." Oh, what havoc I could have wrought with that.

Hindsight is 20/20. For each of us, it was the Lord's own gracious hand that took us out of these steepled sewers. All thanks and praise to Him.

mary

[secrethopes]

I've been in ministry many years and my calling came at an early age. I dreamed of loving, serving and helping God's people and reaching the lost. I looked up to my pastor and respected his calling. It never occurred to me that one day I would almost look at the title, pastor, like "used car salesman" or "personal injury lawyer".

I've been here in the past. My disgust mostly resulted from watching those with little or no training being entrusted with more than they had earned. I watched "so-called" pastors use their title to belittle others or even shame them. One such incident is still available online (http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://www.xanga.com/RJosephP/456651346/item.html?nextdate=1017048028&direction=n#viewcomments). It deeply saddens me.

[Carmen]

I don't blame you for being triggered by the word, "pastor," Blownaway. The reaction is normal for someone that is in your situation. I think the word means - shepherd. At least in Italian the translation for their word, "pastore," is "shepherd," the guy that leads and takes care of the sheep.

I don't think the title was supposed to be thrown around, but that it was supposed to be earned. It is a shame that so many don't live up to it and choose to misuse it. Someone here had coined the word, "pasturd" earlier, a combination of pastor and turd, if I am not mistaken. :D

[ex-shep]

I don't blame you for being triggered by the word, "pastor," Blownaway. The reaction is normal for someone that is in your situation. I think the word means - shepherd. At least in Italian the translation for their word, "pastore," is "shepherd," the guy that leads and takes care of the sheep.

I don't think the title was supposed to be thrown around, but that it was supposed to be earned. It is a shame that so many don't live up to it and choose to misuse it. Someone here had coined the word, "pasturd" earlier, a combination of pastor and turd, if I am not mistaken. :D


Of course, we get the word pastoral. If it were not for our groups, the word word be rather innocuous.

[Elisabeth]

Of course, we get the word pastoral. If it were not for our groups, the word word be rather innocuous.

Yeah, the groups really have made that word a trigger point, haven't they? My SA pastor usually was called "preacher." I still usually can't stand to hear people call a pastor preacher.

[ex-shep]

Yeah, the groups really have made that word a trigger point, haven't they? My SA pastor usually was called "preacher." I still usually can't stand to hear people call a pastor preacher.


I may start a thread on what triggers us. Preacher does conjure up images of confrontational campus preachers. Triggers can be disarming. One group used to color code moods as degrees of spiritual commitment. "Blue" denoted spiritual deadness. I felt sorry for the former who fell to pieces when a well meaning person mentioned "you are looking blue today".

[Elisabeth]

I may start a thread on what triggers us. Preacher does conjure up images of confrontational campus preachers. Triggers can be disarming. One group used to color code moods as degrees of spiritual commitment. "Blue" denoted spiritual deadness. I felt sorry for the former who fell to pieces when a well meaning person mentioned "you are looking blue today".

Interesting - preacher to me conjures up an image of a spiritually dead but can talk a good game and shout from the pulpit and put people down "for their own good" country preacher, because that's what my SA pastor was!

[Anna Marta]

Preacher dredges up a picture of a finger pointed and someone yelling hell's fire and damnation...

Actually, if I am not mistaken that is exactly what the Great Awakening was all about. Who was it Johnathan Edwards scaring the crap out people with that picture and hordes of people "came to faith"... I think it happened both in the Northeastern USA and in Wales.

I still can't figure out how these stolid stoic Norwegians bought into the Pentecostal style back in the early 1900s when Barrat brought it here from Azuza St. Even today those churches think they are the only ones to have found "real faith" let alone salvation! Talk about unconditional love!
Anna Marta

[Anna Marta]

Here I go again...

My quandary is how to present the good news of the Gospel without the hateful finger pointing. Jesus didn't dance around the issue of hell; he was quite clear on that topic. However, he did so in a way that showed great compassion to a lost person so they did not lose all hope. He was actually harder on the pharisees.

I believe Jesus is the ONLY way, the truth and the life and I believe there is eternal life with God and eternal hell without God. Sharing the good news of the gospel is of great importance and a direct command from Jesus as well as the most loving thing I can do for a lost person.

It is just that right now I recognize I have been wounded in more than one church setting and it is difficult for me to be able to effectively evaluate a minister or ministry because of it.

I am yearning for and seeking a safe place to worship and a safe community of believers and a person who I can respect and give my trust to as a leader. At the moment, I trust my husband and very very few people in that area.

Anna Marta

[Carmen]

I may start a thread on what triggers us. Preacher does conjure up images of confrontational campus preachers. Triggers can be disarming. One group used to color code moods as degrees of spiritual commitment. "Blue" denoted spiritual deadness. I felt sorry for the former who fell to pieces when a well meaning person mentioned "you are looking blue today".

I know of a group that has given an attribute to every color of the rainbow, when the more devout adherents hear the names of the colors they automatically think of those attributes. I agree, in such a case a well-meaning comment might trigger certain thoughts or feelings, something I wouldn't want to go through - but it means that those persons have become too sensitized to a certain doctrine, they would not be able to relate normally to others outside the group because of being indoctrinated.

[Carmen]

Here I go again...

My quandary is how to present the good news of the Gospel without the hateful finger pointing. ...

I am yearning for and seeking a safe place to worship and a safe community of believers and a person who I can respect and give my trust to as a leader. At the moment, I trust my husband and very very few people in that area.

Anna Marta

I rarely tell others the gospel just like that, out of the blue, it has to relate to a theme of conversation - and never have I told it with fingerpointing. Right now my life just doesn't seem to bear telling the gospel, how does it look doing that if one is on bad terms with one's husband? At the moment I am too preoccupied with my current problems, but I will help another person if they need it - that is more the gospel through action than with words, it is an easier form of telling the gospel for me right now.

I hope you find that safe place, Anna Marta! :)

[ex-shep]

I know of a group that has given an attribute to every color of the rainbow, when the more devout adherents hear the names of the colors they automatically think of those attributes. I agree, in such a case a well-meaning comment might trigger certain thoughts or feelings, something I wouldn't want to go through - but it means that those persons have become too sensitized to a certain doctrine, they would not be able to relate normally to others outside the group because of being indoctrinated.

This is how the MO played out in Tammy's group. There is a constant teaching that Satan will try to draw the member away from the church. It is interesting that they never said from the Lord or the faith. Stay in the church and the member is safe, leave and he will not be spiritual. Outsiders are slanderers of the brethren. Those who do not repent are those who do not join the church. It is a subtle scripture twist. I spent hours studying the true biblical definition of slander. It generally means evil accusation to the point of devil worship.

I do temper things with a fifty gallon drum of humility; nevertheless I do find it amusing that Tammy years ago threw down the gauntlet, "I will not talk to you unless you repent [join "The Community" is group speak] Tammy was shocked when she realized I was actively involved in the group from 2005-2007. I am not sure what the Lord has in store for us. It did even out the playing field a touch.

[jane]

What ever happened to BLOWNAWAY???

Is it me or does it seem like some new people come, post, and then let us respond and create some huge thread while they disappear???

Blownaway,

what have YOU to say about our responses???

jane