Unexpected Change at Our Church Yesterday

[Reg]

Something happened yesterday at church services that I was not expecting to happen. Our Senior Pastor is resigning. He has taken a position at another church. It was a complete surprise to all I talked to.

I thought we were a church he wanted to be in. With all he said about his vision of being in a
multi-cultural church we thought he was very happy to be with us. What happened? Why the
change? I know what they will say about him feeling God’s calling to another church but I
wonder what the real reason is???

I have some thoughts as far as my gut feelings go but absolutely no evidence to support them, so
for now I will keep them to myself. Time will tell.

One thing I pray for is the next Senior Pastor will have a very good understanding about SA and
just like Pastor Johnson who is doing a series about it in his own church, we would also be
blessed with someone like him. That would be wonderful. Someone I could work with. So far in
our church, there was no one I felt comfortable with to initiate something for the SA. That is why
I considered starting something of a parachurch group. Do I see God in this change? I was asking
Him to initiate something to give me guidance and direction. Could this change in Senior
Pastor’s be the beginning of that?

Please pray God will send us someone who is sensitive to the Spiritually Abused like Pastor Johnson is in his area.

[Willow]

I am saying a prayer for you, your pastor, and your church right now Reg.

[Reg]

I am saying a prayer for you, your pastor, and your church right now Reg.

Thanks Willow.

[mary]

Praying for you and your congregation, Reg... This must have been quite a blow -- but Romans 8:28, etc. Sometimes, we can't see His hand in these things, but it's there...

How long had Rev. Johnson been your senior pastor?

In His love,

mary

[Reg]

Praying for you and your congregation, Reg... This must have been quite a blow -- but Romans 8:28, etc. Sometimes, we can't see His hand in these things, but it's there...

How long had Rev. Johnson been your senior pastor?

In His love,

mary
Thanks Mary. BTW, our pastor's name is Ian Campbell. He has been here 6 years

I wish it would be Rev Johnson who replaced him. That is someone I would love to have as our Senior Pastor.

[SpinningHead]

Your post makes me nervous. I hate big changes just when you think that things can be calm for a little while!

[Blownaway]

I think if were heard that here at this church there would be muffled cheering in celebration. There are so many that feel like they are in a prison here. I will be praying for you situation.

[ex-shep]

I am saying a prayer for you, your pastor, and your church right now Reg.


done

[Reg]

Here's an update on this one......

It's been a few months since our senior pastor left. Fortunately we have a relatively good team of other pastors who can temporarly lead us. We have had a few guest speakers. Last Sunday, the President of the Fellowship of Evangelical Churches of Canada http://www.fellowship.ca/president.asp spoke to us about the changes we are going through.

It was titled, "What Are You Prepared To Do".

I was somewhat triggered. What he said was true but as always it was what are we (the members) are prepared to do. I would liked to have taken everything he said and have it apply to all the ministers and leaders of our fellowship and let them listen to it as it applyed to them. That was my perspective. Like any enterprise, the success or failure of it depends on its leaders. I perceived that he only saw it from his perspective as someone inside the institutional church. I don't think he knows or understands that many Christians do not attend a local church and if he only looks at the numbers he will not come to a correct conclusion. That is all he looked at as that is the only way he can access the success of the churches evangelic efforts. So from my perspective, I would have talked about Church Health not church numbers. I'm sure he does not understand why so many Christians have left the institutional church here in Canada.

The text he used was 1Cor 9:19-27.

He used the WEY - 1912 Weymouth NT translation for vs 19 where it says,
"19 ¶ Though free from all human control, I have made myself the slave of all in the hope of winning as many converts as possible."

He didn't say that was the version he used. I just checked it myself because that is not how I read the verse. In all the other translations, Paul is not talking about numbers, he is talking about how we need to be flexible in order to relate to others so that in doing so we can connect the message of the gospel in meaningful way to them so that they will accept it.

So from his standpoint it was all about numbers. And the only numbers he knows about are the ones in the Fellowship. He has no other guage. He is totally unaware of us and the many others who fellowship in house churches apart from the institutional church. He made absolutely no reference to them.

So, I am not encouraged so far.

I just read a quote from Charles Stanley where he said that the number one requirement for a Christian leader is brokeness. "If you are looking for a new pastor, pray for a broken one."

[ex-shep]

.

So, I am not encouraged so far.

I just read a quote from Charles Stanley where he said that the number one requirement for a Christian leader is brokeness. "If you are looking for a new pastor, pray for a broken one." [/QUOTE]


From what I glanced, I have to credit you for your discernment. Christianity is not a numbers game. I happen to attend two churches. On Sunday I attend a small church busting at the seams. Monday night, I take in a Mens Bible Study at one the largest churches in Ohio. In both cases, it is the relationship with the Lord and individual walks which count. I like the Stanley quote. Keep us posted. Does not sound good.

[mary]

It's not and never will be a "numbers" game. If it were, why would it have been noted multiple times in the Bible how many people walked away from Jesus? Far more walked away than stayed - and how many were with Him at Calvary? His sayings were hard... (Cf. John 6:60.)

Incidentally, 1 Cor. 9:19-20 in the KJV says, "For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law..." Verse 22b sums up what Paul is saying: "I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some."

I think, Reg, that your interpretation of the verse is correct, read in context.

I love the quote re: "if you're looking for a new pastor, look for a broken one." How true. When they put out the call for someone to pastor the church I was thrown out of, they did it in this manner: "We're looking for someone who doesn't just want a vacation in America. We want someone who's willing to go there and live." Well, the man who came - in truth, the only applicant they received - wanted to leave the U. K. for some reason, and we have some really nice golf courses around here. Was he "broken?" Absolutely not! :mad: Recently, I read somewhere, probably in one of my -ahem- rather Reformed books, that only about one man in 1,000 is fitted by God to be a pastor. So -- that probably means, conservatively speaking, that, oh, around 895 out of every 1,000 who currently are pastors shouldn't be in any pulpit.

That's what's wrong with our whole picture lately, guys. :eek: May the Lord deliver us from this deplorable situation, and soon.

mary

[simka]

This thread is triggering me in good and bad way. My husband and I have of course been discussing for the last 4 months whether we would go back into full time pastoral ministry. Truth is at first we felt too broken and afraid that we would inflict similar abuses on a church.

Now we've been growing slowly and steadily, and realize we would love to pastor again, but it would have to be a place of HEALING. A place that is safe for the wounded and broken of this world to take the time they need to walk with the great shepherd and find wholeness.

A place that takes burdens off it's sheep, binds their wounds, and sets them free to do the same as God leads them.

The whole evangelical pres. coming to visit really set my heart racing. I'll i could think was "please don't put more on those people!" Oh well, just my rambling thoughts.

Praying for you and your church!--simka

[Anna Marta]

Dear Reg,

I think you have put your finger on the vulnerable spot for "all" organized church leaders.

I quote you, "I don't think he knows or understands that many Christians do not attend a local church and if he only looks at the numbers he will not come to a correct conclusion. That is all he looked at as that is the only way he can access the success of the churches evangelic efforts."

These leaders have little or no experience with the number of people who are looking for an authentic relationship with Christ and other believers so as to be able to live in and grow an active faith relevant to their lives.

"Numbers mean financial security" for institutional church leadership. This is their professional life and future security. Religion is their business, even though at one time some of them may have considered it a "calling", they have progressed to a time when they have been sucked into the numbers game for financial security... and the "calling" may be a naive or idealistic part of the past.

God sure does hear our prayers and I believe he acts - even though His ways and thoughts rarely are the same as ours. I keep you and everyone else who is actively pursuing a ministry for the SA victims in my prayers. The "numbers" (if they want to play a numbers game) are high and increasing all the time, so that the decreasing numbers of persons on the membership roles will eventually have to be recognized.

It is up to those of us who attend yet refuse to join to tell our stories about why we distrust the institutional church. They can't make us join and they can't do without us (and our money in the plate, uh?) so they will have to deal with it eventually.

Am I making sense? I think that we may have more influence than we realize. Time will tell.

You are astute Reg and very wise.

Anna Marta

[Anna Marta]

This thread is triggering me in good and bad way. My husband and I have of course been discussing for the last 4 months whether we would go back into full time pastoral ministry. Truth is at first we felt too broken and afraid that we would inflict similar abuses on a church.

Now we've been growing slowly and steadily, and realize we would love to pastor again, but it would have to be a place of HEALING. A place that is safe for the wounded and broken of this world to take the time they need to walk with the great shepherd and find wholeness.

A place that takes burdens off it's sheep, binds their wounds, and sets them free to do the same as God leads them.

The whole evangelical pres. coming to visit really set my heart racing. I'll i could think was "please don't put more on those people!" Oh well, just my rambling thoughts.

Praying for you and your church!--simka


Dear Simka,

You and your husband must be a dear pastoral couple who are close to God's own heart!

I sense your healing in your growing desire to minister again and pray that God will reveal to you both His plans for you. There can be no doubt that Father God sees the pain, fear, confusion and needs of those who have been hurt and abused and that He has a plan.

Bless you both
Anna Marta

[Willow]

This thread is triggering me in good and bad way. My husband and I have of course been discussing for the last 4 months whether we would go back into full time pastoral ministry. Truth is at first we felt too broken and afraid that we would inflict similar abuses on a church.

Now we've been growing slowly and steadily, and realize we would love to pastor again, but it would have to be a place of HEALING. A place that is safe for the wounded and broken of this world to take the time they need to walk with the great shepherd and find wholeness.

A place that takes burdens off it's sheep, binds their wounds, and sets them free to do the same as God leads them.

The whole evangelical pres. coming to visit really set my heart racing. I'll i could think was "please don't put more on those people!" Oh well, just my rambling thoughts.

Praying for you and your church!--simka

Dear simka, I don't know if this applies to your situation or what is on your heart... but since I've left the church and my ministry position, I have been way more effective than I ever was in the church. Talk about salt out of the shaker! I know several others just like me too. I call it the church without walls.

[FreeinJesus]

.... I call it the church without walls.

Dear Willow, I like that!! ^^^^^^^^:)
FreeinJesus