What is a church?

[Anna Marta]

Hello Everyone,

We have all experienced what a BAD church is like. I wondered if anyone is up for helping me to come to terms with what a GOOD church is supposed to be.

There are days I think I have no idea anymore about what a church is supposed to be or do. I fear that most of my life has been spent being a "member of" and serving different styles of religious clubs and organizations. It seems many churches today have broken out of the old **denominational boxes and now come in all flavors and sizes and employ a different organizational styles:


large corporate structures
small business ventures
educational institutions
small clubs or cliques
closed and secret cults and sects


I thought maybe it would be helpful for our recovery process for us to dream and brain storm. If we could design a church, what would you like to see it look like?

Anna Marta

**denominations also have their own individual flavors of corporate structure, rules and regulations...

[mary]

Hi, Anna Marta,

Good thread! :) :) :)

I would like a church that preaches the real Gospel and exalts Jesus Christ relentlessly.

I also would like a church that provides teaching for men, women and children, that has Bible studies and Sunday schools. Also one that would give realistic, non-coercive opportunities and instruction for evangelizing the surrounding community and for defending our faith when it's challenged, in whatever arena. We should be comfortable praying with and for each other informally and formally, in small groups and corporately.

There should be deacons, not putting up with the situation of "no one wants to be a deacon, so we don't really need them." That was the case in the church I was thrown out of.

I would like to see a loving shepherding of the people, caring for those who are sick, needy, going astray, etc., instead of a pastor who says, "I don't care who's here and who's not," as my old "pastor" said to me once.

(I have my own doctrinal beliefs, worship preferences, etc., but I think we can agree that a church service should consist of prayer, reading of the Word of God, preaching and singing. It should exalt the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and not man.)

That's what I would consider a good church.

mary

[ex-shep]

Hi, Anna Marta,

Good thread! :) :) :)

I would like a church that preaches the real Gospel and exalts Jesus Christ relentlessly.

I also would like a church that provides teaching for men, women and children, that has Bible studies and Sunday schools. Also one that would give realistic, non-coercive opportunities and instruction for evangelizing the surrounding community and for defending our faith when it's challenged, in whatever arena. We should be comfortable praying with and for each other informally and formally, in small groups and corporately.

There should be deacons, not putting up with the situation of "no one wants to be a deacon, so we don't really need them." That was the case in the church I was thrown out of.

I would like to see a loving shepherding of the people, caring for those who are sick, needy, going astray, etc., instead of a pastor who says, "I don't care who's here and who's not," as my old "pastor" said to me once.

(I have my own doctrinal beliefs, worship preferences, etc., but I think we can agree that a church service should consist of prayer, reading of the Word of God, preaching and singing. It should exalt the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and not man.)

That's what I would consider a good church.

mary

I guess that describes where I go today. The church in Texas, part of Tammy's former group, was close enough to overlook the shortcomings. No such thing as a perfect church. The last church my wife and I attended prior to moving to Ohio seemed to fit the above.

Of course, anyone who has read my posts over the years knows I have experienced some real winners of the Hall of Shame award. The "winners" can no doubt sour one's liking for even the remote possibility of a healthy church. It is maddening. Good share. I look forward to the replys. I hope to see some good discussion.

[Ladybug]

"I would like a church that preaches the real Gospel and exalts Jesus Christ relentlessly.

I also would like a church that provides teaching for men, women and children, that has Bible studies and Sunday schools. Also one that would give realistic, non-coercive opportunities and instruction for evangelizing the surrounding community and for defending our faith when it's challenged, in whatever arena. We should be comfortable praying with and for each other informally and formally, in small groups and corporately.

There should be deacons, not putting up with the situation of "no one wants to be a deacon, so we don't really need them." That was the case in the church I was thrown out of.

I would like to see a loving shepherding of the people, caring for those who are sick, needy, going astray, etc., instead of a pastor who says, "I don't care who's here and who's not," as my old "pastor" said to me once.

(I have my own doctrinal beliefs, worship preferences, etc., but I think we can agree that a church service should consist of prayer, reading of the Word of God, preaching and singing. It should exalt the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and not man.)

That's what I would consider a good church.

mary"

Except for the Sunday School, this is a good description of the church I am presently attending.

I am in a cell group--which is my extended church family. Within this group one can be as transparent as they feel comfortable in sharing. Usually we go over the previous Sunday message and share what we got out of it. Then we have a time of sharing and taking prayer requests. After prayer time, we have lunch and fellowship. I had never been in a cell group until coming to Cornerstone here in VA.

Training--They have School of Leaders 1--3. Once you've completed these classes you have the option of becoming a cell leader.

At various times there will be Bible college classes.

We have Rock church Power church for the young kids. This area is growing too.

When I started going to Cornerstone, there isn't a "membership." You just get busy within a ministry after you've been to a Women's or Men's encounter weekend. The Encounter is allowing God to help you yield more of yourself to Him. It's working through areas and letting the Lord heal. The weekend is life-changing on a spiritual level. I was overwhelmed with the encounter I attended. I felt more secure in God's love and His acceptance of me.

As far as ministry, I attend cell and I'm also involved with the prayer ministry that meets before the worship service. Then durning the week, I'll receive a list of prayer requests. It's encouraging to see the church growing more in this area.

Cornerstone is very mission's minded. Pastor Greg says everyone ought to have an up to date passport and that everyone should go on at least one mission's trip.

I like Cornerstone because I have the opportunity to grow in a positive way. Pastor Greg emphasis one's relationship with the Lord. Everyone Sunday morning, he does give an invitation for people to come and to accept the Lord. Then we have folks that follow up and encourage people to connect with a cell group.

When I first started going to Cornerstone it was an adjustment. Different type of worship service and music. I felt like there was something more for me. I noticed others having more of a closeness with the Lord. It showed through their worship. The atmosphere is very positive, considering I came out of a very legal listic church. Cornerstone is fresh and a live! They encourage emotional and spiritual wholeness.

I know for now, this is where the Lord wants me. I've been there almost 4 years. The Lord is working within me and has drawn me closer to Him. There's growth in the area of prayer. I understand more about my relationship with the Lord.

No, Cornerstone is not a perfect church, and there are some areas I don't fully agree on, but that's personal and not doctrinal difference. As long as the church adheres to basic doctrine, I can agree with them.

As far as "dreaming" of a church. one's relationship with the Lord would be encouraged to be made stronger. Be opportunity to serve through various ministries not only within the church, but there's outreach within the community. Classes taught so everyone can learn from the youngest on up to the Senior Saints. Discipleship for those who have accepted the Lord and also for those who haven't had a church background. I like the idea of cell groups and meeting with one another and having fellowship. Cell groups for youth on up. Mission outreach, community and then abroad. Counseling ministry available to all. A Women's and Men's Ministry. Various ministries for the children and youth. Yet there's a balance where the family doesn't feel like they are spending all their time at church and a part from one another instead of being able to worship as family. Cornerstone doesn't have a Sunday evening service. Pastor Greg encourages families to take Sunday afternoons for family time or for time to rest. Or to visit with friends and neighbors and invite folks to church. But the congregation isn't spending their time running back and forth to church on Sunday and then crashing on Monday. :) To have a congregation that takes care of their Pastor and family. Last summer, Pastor Greg and his family took a sabitacal for that summer. Pastor Greg and his wife have shared some in how the Lord ministered to them through some counseling ministries that they had opportunity to attend. It's making a huge difference in them. They came back more relaxed and ready to resume leadership. Pastor Greg states how the Lord is continuing to heal emotionally as they journey onward. That's encouraging to hear a statement like that from leadership. As the church takes care of their Pastor this gives him time to study and to pray. To visit as needed. This is where cell groups help to take this load off of the Pastor.
Training available for those in leadership. To have an atmosphere that's caring when one enters the building. Where visitors fell welcomed. Those that are a part of the congregation have a sense of unity. Knowing not only will the spiritual needs be met, but other needs as things arise. It's being able to walk together through the good and the bad times. To me this is what I'd like to see within a church.

I look forward to see other's thoughts on this subject. :)

[DiligentLily]

Because of what I've been through with my abuse, which centered on legalism and judgmentalism and disputes about authority, I want something quite different. Our priest now (a good guy) says "Church should be a hospital for sinners." It should be a place where we all recognize our woundedness and don't judge one-another because of theirs, and we offer a helping hand, ideas on how to overcome our sins and challenges, and welcome and love.

[Reg]

Excellent points by Ladybug and Mary.

To me one of the main overall things I like to see and have the church focus on is CHURCH HEALTH. That is paramount to me. But what does a really healthy church look like?

Here is what I consider a healthy organization looks like. How many of these principles can we carry over to a church? All?

What to look for in a Healthy Organization

Healthy organizations are voluntary associations where people collaborate to work out their ideas with a shared purpose and specific goal. Everyone is free to criticize and hold different opinions from that of the group’s leadership. Differences of opinion are welcomed and respected.There is no psychological pressure to conform and no atmosphere of enforced uniformity. Members view themselves as a part of society in general involved in a group for practical and limited reasons.
Members spend only a reasonable part of their spare time in group activities and enjoy a completely separate family, social and professional life. Healthy groups are democratic in practice and not just in theory. Members are free to come and go as they please. They participate as they wish, without feeling excessive guilt or shame for not attending meetings, donating time or money. Nobody fears any physical or psychological reprimand for missing meetings or refusing tasks. Members put their personal needs first and are able to differentiate those from the needs of the group. They decide for themselves their relations with the group and are able to reassess their level of commitment and also leave the group without creating a major personal crisis or conflict with the group.

Staying Clear of Recovery Cultism
http://www.sossobriety.org/cults.htm

[Blownaway]

[QUOTE=Reg;49622]
Healthy organizations are voluntary associations where people collaborate to work out their ideas with a shared purpose and specific goal. Everyone is free to criticize and hold different opinions from that of the group’s leadership. Differences of opinion are welcomed and respected.There is no psychological pressure to conform and no atmosphere of enforced uniformity. Members view themselves as a part of society in general involved in a group for practical and limited reasons.
Members spend only a reasonable part of their spare time in group activities and enjoy a completely separate family, social and professional life. Healthy groups are democratic in practice and not just in theory. Members are free to come and go as they please. They participate as they wish, without feeling excessive guilt or shame for not attending meetings, donating time or money. Nobody fears any physical or psychological reprimand for missing meetings or refusing tasks. Members put their personal needs first and are able to differentiate those from the needs of the group. They decide for themselves their relations with the group and are able to reassess their level of commitment and also leave the group without creating a major personal crisis or conflict with the group.

==========================================

I love this quote. What I understand the early church looked like was an apostolic church. Where the Apostle oversaw the church in General seeing to the needs of the many churches by cooperating witht the leaders of those individual pastors. Then there was the breakdown of the local body of believers. It was a Christian community that came together to be "built up in their most holy faith." The pastor's job was to give the body what they needed in order to be a healthy body. And, led them into green pastures and watered them by streams for them to be strong. Where there is a healthy body it will grow on it's own. Without pressure, without guilt or shame. You don't get a young child to grow by shaming him that he's not more mature and small. You feed him, play with him, teach him, correct him and basically live life with him in a healthy environment until they naturally grow and mature.

So many churches I see and have been a part of have gotten it backwards. We are supposed to exist for the people, not the people are here for our existance. So these self serving pastors get their people to walk in line and stay under control and they use them as a resource to burn for the use of the church. This is sinful!!!

[Willow]

My church has become the people I trust enough to eat "break bread" with on a consistent basis. There's a sense of intimacy and trust with those I eat with. I know that's not very profound.. but it's what it boils down to for me. Not much study of bible or worship involved in that I guess. Oh well... it's where I am!

[Reg]

OH, and one more indespensible thing.

Absolutely trustworthy servants of God as Pastors and leaders in the church.