Membership covenant saga cont...

[Elle]

Well- I met with the senior pastor today to ask him about the covenant that he wants everyone to sign. (See posting - what do you all think...). He said that his intention was to help the members grow spiritually by becoming more committed. His concern is that too many people join churches like they join the gym - without any long lasting commitment to the church. I asked him why he felt encouraging members to be committed necessitated a change in the church constitution. He said that what was in the constitution presently was 'archaic'. Sunday, the church is discussing the covenant at a meeting after the service. The pastor invited me to voice my concerns at the meeting. I'm not sure that I'm up to that. Any ideas on what to say, if anything? By the way, I'm really having a tough time with the holidays. It's the first Christmas since my sister died. Plus, my husband has started binge drinking again, in front of our two sons, ages 5 and 7. Oh yeah - the pastor asked me to head up the worship teams, as far as scheduling and music choice. Feeling pretty stressed. Thanks for listening (reading). Hugs, Elle

[Janice]

If it was me I would DEFINATELY go to the meeting and voice my opinion but, I would have to ask for and pray alot before I went for the Lord to give me "Grace" when I spoke so I wouldn't just start "sounding off" in anger. :D

Look on the bright side...at least you ARE a church member and are ALLOWED to voice your opinion. I am not allowed to become a member of my church. I Am allowed to ATTEND meetings but am not allowed to "voice my opinion" because of my non-membership status. :mad:

You and your family are in my thoughts for your entire situation.

[Hope 98]

The pastor invited me to voice my concerns at the meeting. I'm not sure that I'm up to that. Any ideas on what to say, if anything? Hugs, Elle

Luke 21:14-15

But make up your mind not to worry beforehand how you will defend yourselves. For I will give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict.
I fall back on this verse every time I don't know what to say. I've learned that God literally will fill my mouth with words if I allow him to, sometimes even if I don't realize I've allowed him to.

Pray & listen to what God would have you do or say. Maybe he's not expecting you to do anything in this situation right now. I'll be praying for you too.

[Savedbygrace]

Well- I met with the senior pastor today to ask him about the covenant that he wants everyone to sign. (See posting - what do you all think...). He said that his intention was to help the members grow spiritually by becoming more committed. His concern is that too many people join churches like they join the gym - without any long lasting commitment to the church. I asked him why he felt encouraging members to be committed necessitated a change in the church constitution. He said that what was in the constitution presently was 'archaic'. Sunday, the church is discussing the covenant at a meeting after the service. The pastor invited me to voice my concerns at the meeting. I'm not sure that I'm up to that. Any ideas on what to say, if anything? By the way, I'm really having a tough time with the holidays. It's the first Christmas since my sister died. Plus, my husband has started binge drinking again, in front of our two sons, ages 5 and 7. Oh yeah - the pastor asked me to head up the worship teams, as far as scheduling and music choice. Feeling pretty stressed. Thanks for listening (reading). Hugs, Elle
Elle,

Wow, you have a lot on your plate right now. Take time in prayer about the church covenant issue. I would be curious what measures the leadership will use to uphold such an agreement? I honestly think that if you have to put it in writing and demand people to act Christian, something is inherently wrong. Your pastors response sounds to me like he and the leadership are "fed up" with people not committing to the church. Wouldn't you draw more people to commit by extending them grace and being a model for them to follow? It sounds like the leadership is trying to govern over the body, and I believe this is Christ's job. It is so legalistic to put the requirements in writing and to have people "sign" their commitments like that. I believe it will drive people away who need to be in church. Hurting people need a church home to minister to them with grace, mercy and compassion. If we do that prayerfully through the Holy Spirit, the Spirit will fill the lost and hurting and change their hearts to want to turn around and do the same.

We cannot force people to conform...not that most of the things in the covenant to me seem like givens, we have to trust in the Lord to work in people's hearts.

I just think it is strange and it reminds me of the attitude at my old church. The really commited members were always grovelling over how they had to do everything... well, we are supposed to serve and give cheerfully, we are not supposed to be standing in judgement over our fellow believers. While the intention may be good, it does not seem biblical to me to ask people to sign this type of agreement.

I am so sorry about the loss of your sister. The holidays are so hard after losing someone. THis is my third Christmas since losing my husband, and it is getting better. At least it feels like we have a new "normal". As for your husband, I will keep that in prayer.

You are ok. Do not commit to anything if you are not sure in your heart that it is what God wants for you. It is ok to say NO and it is ok to say "I need some time to think about this"

Take care of yourself. Rest in the Lord. Seek him in your times of trouble and confusion. He will make your path straight and certain. (I need to follow that advice myself!)

Love ya,

Trish

[Reg]

Well- I met with the senior pastor today to ask him about the covenant that he wants everyone to sign........ He said that his intention was to help the members grow spiritually by becoming more committed.??? His concern is that too many people join churches like they join the gym - without any long lasting commitment to the church. I asked him why he felt encouraging members to be committed necessitated a change in the church constitution. He said that what was in the constitution presently was 'archaic'.??? ......
I'm not sure that I'm up to that. Any ideas on what to say, if anything? By the way, I'm really having a tough time with the holidays. It's the first Christmas since my sister died. Plus, my husband has started binge drinking again, in front of our two sons, ages 5 and 7. Oh yeah - the pastor asked me to head up the worship teams, as far as scheduling and music choice. Feeling pretty stressed. Thanks for listening (reading). Hugs, Elle
So sorry to hear about your husband's drinking. I know how difficult that must be. I was a co-leader for over two years of Celebrate Recovery at our church.
http://www.bramaleabaptist.org/cr/ Staying close to God in prayer is essential. For such difficult situations, their is virtually nothing we can do for the other person. That's were boundaries need to be set and adhered to. We should not become enablers of other's addictive, compulsive behaviours.

Take care of yourself first. With all your going through that meeting might be too stressful. Your the best judge of that. I tend to cringe somewhat when I say something that I know they do not want to hear. I prefer to do all mine in writing. That takes the stress out of it for me.

Here's some additional info you asked for. Hope it helps. :)

For a true believer your word should be enough.

Mat 5:37 But let your word be, Yes, yes; No, no. For whatever is more than these comes from evil. (MKJV)

James 5:12 ¶ But before all things, my brothers, do not swear; neither by the heaven nor by the earth, nor any other oath. But let your yes be yes, and [your] no, no, lest you fall into condemnation. (MKJV)

Mat 5:34 But I say to you, Do not swear at all! Not by Heaven, because it is God's throne; (MKJV)

Signing something is like a formal way of swearing you'll do it. What if you simply refused to sign it because of conscience sake? What could/would they do?

Rom 13:5 Therefore [you] must be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience' sake. (MKJV)

Heb 13:18 ¶ Pray for us; for we trust we have a good conscience, in all things willing to live honestly. (MKJV)

1Tim 1:5 ¶ But the end of the commandment is love out of a pure heart, and a good conscience, and faith unfeigned, (MKJV)

1Co 10:29 conscience, I say, not your own, but the other's. For why is my liberty judged by another's conscience? (MKJV)

This to me sounds like a boundaries issue. It's an attempt at control, howbeit minor. But, what comes next if they he gets away with this one?

And finally:

Col 4:6 Let your speech [be] always with grace, having been seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one. (MKJV)

[Elle]

Thanks for your help! I'm still undecided about tomorrow, but will have something prepared just in case. I appreciate your prayers on my behalf and for my family. I'm looking into Al-anon - I haven't been able to find any Christian recovery type groups around this area, but will keep looking. Hugs, Elle

[Dolphin]

For the pastor to say that " too many people join a church like they join a gym - without any lasting commitment" is disrespectful to the people that come to his church now. They should certainly be free to leave when they choose to, don't you think? and free to give as the want? free to voice concerns?

[Janice]

Thanks for your help! I'm still undecided about tomorrow, but will have something prepared just in case. I appreciate your prayers on my behalf and for my family. I'm looking into Al-anon - I haven't been able to find any Christian recovery type groups around this area, but will keep looking. Hugs, Elle


Not sure if they have a "Turning Point" recovery group in your area but, that is what our church uses. You may want to check into that. It's a Christian based Recovery Program.

[Jerry]

Dear Elle,,
Let me see if I got this right,,,,Christ brought us a" New Covenant" to replace the old one,,,,and now this guy brings us a "New Covenant" to replace Christs.Yeah,,,I think that is the gist of it. :D What does your "Pastor"do for a "Day Job"????,,,,,Install "Vinal Siding"????? :D
Love Jerry

[Elle]

Hey Jerry! I was beginning to worry about you - hadn't heard from you in a while! As far as today goes, I did get up in the meeting and discuss my concerns. I think it got a lot of people thinking. The response was supportive, except for the associate pastor who kind of got on the defensive. This covenant thing may not pass after all. We'll have to wait and see what happens. Thanks everyone for your prayers. Hugs, Elle

[Jerry]

Just been workin a lot Elle :D