What was your pastor's response when you left your church?

[Ontheroad]

I wondered how everyone's pastor and church leaders responded when they left their former churches. In my situation when I left my former church, things had so deteriorated that I was afraid to tell my pastor face-to-face that I was leaving. I had been yelled out and hung up on the phone by him numerous times because of a stance I was openly taking against some illegal and immoral things going on by him and another church member. So, I wrote him a letter which I slid under his office door, in which I thanked him for the things I could thank him for, and explained to him why I was needing to leave the church. I told him that I would like to have an in-person conversation with him about it with him and to please contact me to set up a time do so after he read my letter. But he never responded at all to me. Instead, he discussed me from the pulpit as an example of rebellion and breaking covenant and of how I and others who left had hurt him.

To my knowledge, anyone that left the church were never followed up on by him. He wrote them off and discussed their leaving both in private and openly from the pulpit.

Did anyone here have their pastor or leaders follow up with them when they left, to try to rectify things or mend hurts?

[Florence]

We left our first abusive church about 7 years ago. I had been "working" 20 plus hours per week at the church and more and more experiencing all of the "unwritten rules" that you don't know about until you break them. I simply asked to take the summer off - the stress of always being condemned was getting to me, but, as I said in a previous post, I believed "all things work together for good" and that if I just took a break I would be able to come back in a few months refreshed.

I spoke to the pastor about stepping back for the summer and he seemed very supportive of my decision. The following Monday I attended a worship committee meeting and the chairman told me that at the elders meeting he had just come from (he was there to make a committee report), I had been lambasted by the pastor and several of the elders. (Note, as a woman, I was planning and preparing all of the music for the services, rehearsing the worship team, etc., but I was not the "leader." 20 minutes before the service, the designated male leader - sometimes the youth pastor, sometimes another elder - would run through the songs with the team and lead the service. When things went well, they tookall the credit. When things didn't go well, I took all the blame.)

The committee chair told me not to worry, they were just angry that I would no longer be around to make them all look good and it might take some time, but it would all blow over.

A few days later, another committee chairman came to visit us. Seems that he had been in the same meeting and had heard the same things and he was so upset he felt he had to let us know what was being said about me. That elders meeting was a pivotal moment in this second man's decision to leave the church.

I, on the other hand, tried to "work it out." I wanted to "make amends" - to have them understand my position and know that I wasn't placing blame on anyone - that I truly wanted to serve but that I just needed a break and was anxious to come back in the fall. Instead, I found that everything I said and did was being scrutinized - even my driving! - and no matter how hard I tried to make it better, it just got worse and worse.

Finally, we were at an elders meeting in which they made it clear that the pastor and the elders do God's will "perfectly." We walked out of that church and never looked back. Later we were told that we were preached about from the pulpit - and the people were told that if they heard about where we were attending church, to let the pastor know so he could "warn" them about me.

One year later, that pastor was caught in an adulterous affair with a woman he was counseling. It was the 2nd affair that he had been caught in - the first being less than six months into his marriage. He left the ministry, began doing motivational speaking, and now travels the world.

Never heard from the man again.

Now, at my current church home, I am realizing just how very subtle this whole abuse thing can be. Church #1 was pretty blatant - I was just young and naive and trying hard to be a submissive, servant-hearted woman of God. Church #2 seemed to say and do all the right things when folks are looking, but behind the scenes was where it got tricky - at least at first. Then last year the pastor became CEO and now they are hearing sermons about measuring up. It's a good thing I work at a different church and am not sitting in the pew every Sunday at my own church. I would either break down completely or give up on the whole church thing altogether.

I don't know the end to this second church situation yet. This drama isn't over yet. I can say that the emails I have sent the pastor have been ignored. He only makes token gestures toward me when he runs into me and people are around to watch. It's all about appearances. If he ever saw me alone, I doubt he would even look my way.

Florence

[Doug64]

We basically just left and didn't go back.


There was no follow up by the pastors or very many of the members. We visited recently and were well received. But in our case, there had been no conflict or parting of the ways.

That often results in a different outcome - even though it should make no difference.

Doug :)

[OldEnt]

I left in November... It's been three years now... My wife and daughter did not leave until the end of the following June... Seven months latter....

I went to one of the elders house and met with him to give him my resignation... It was a civil enough meeting and we parted more or less amiably.. but there were things he said in that meeting that as I reflected on them, scared me even more and only further highlighted why I was leaving....

One of the other pastors latter met with me for coffee... He said they wanted to "leave the back light on" in case I wanted to come back... I did not discuss any issues with him... He also expressed concern for our marriage...(sic)... Several months latter I received a letter from the church saying I had been removed from the membership per my request....

I did have another run in with the first elder after I had talked to him, but that was in relation to marital issues in another family who latter left the church..... We had undertaken to give the wife a "safe haven" at our house as she dealt with an abusive husband.... of course in this elders mind she was "breaking covenant" :eek:

My response was that the husband was the one breaking covenant... of course this elder "didn't get it..." those male chauvinist pigs never did get it... then he had the audacity to say he was "disappointed"... Oh my, oh my... an elder disappointed.... how tragic..... boo hoo hoo... :rolleyes: what a self-serving bunch of bull manure that was..... never mind scores of people were leaving his church because THEY were disappointed.... it only mattered that the elders were disappointed...... :(

BULL PUCKY!!! :mad: What a bunch of braying pantywaist jackasses.....
Pardon me while I have a good old fashion puke.... bleeeeeeeeh........

One of our former elders lives a few houses down the street from us. He makes a better neighbor then he does a pastor.... We're civil enough to one another, but I don't talk church or theology with him....

Don't miss that place one bit....

Cheers,

Old Ent

[Voyager]

After I escaped my former abusive church/cult in October of 1998, I was labelled "mentally ill" by the ignorant pastard from the pulpit. Within a few days my relationship with over 450 people was destroyed. They all abandoned me. In one day, I went from being a Sunday School teacher / worship team musician to being a "Judas" who was "deceived by the devil". One day I had a loving, caring family - the next day they all condemned me to Hades.

But, I saved a boatload on car insurance by switching to Geico.

:(

[Kerrin]

:confused: I have been totally confused over the pulpit preaching and the actual behaviour. I was Flavour of two years whwn our pastor and his wife arrived, still very much ababy christian, they took me on as their "project'. I had all kinds of great roles in the church and "friends'. This was what what I had been searching for. YOU just don't question authority!! Unfortunately I tend to do that if I need to understand something. I re-married with every ones blessing, only to have it unravel as fast as it bagan! It of course was my fault. Things started going wrong in various ministries within the church, I'm a good scape goat. I can't think up quick enough responses when "put on the spot". I dID however begin to find my positions/titles removed. I was labelled rebellious, Un-submissive, (especially to my husband), A trouble maker. The biggy thing that really hurt and scared me was being told Iwas operating in "witchcraft", and the jezebell spirit :eek: was responsible!!
I went and had "deliverence", as I was told to. :rolleyes:
I was then basically ignored for the next 12 months. My pastor returned my e-mails, told my "friends" to be wary of me and my husband, he told , our marriage problems were me!
I left about two months ago when I decided I no longer wanted to go to church feeling bad and coming out feeling worse than when I went in!
It has been hard, I don't have a new church home yet.
My husband has finally left too, and we are slowly trying to re-build what we can, without "church" interference.
Kerrin :)

[Hope 98]

We had undertaken to give the wife a "safe haven" at our house as she dealt with an abusive husband.... of course in this elders mind she was "breaking covenant" :eek:

My response was that the husband was the one breaking covenant... of course this elder "didn't get it..." those male chauvinist pigs never did get it... then he had the audacity to say he was "disappointed".

Cheers,

Old Ent


I expect to be dealing with the same thing here at any moment. My friend for the church I attend has left her husband and the church all at once, and the whole thing came to light yesterday. I've been "talked to" about advising her opposed to church doctrine in the past. It has left me unqualified to teach Sunday School. :p

Now that she has actually acted on her own, I will be surprised if I'm not disciplined in some way. I'm ready for that, but the not knowing yet is driving me NUTS!

[Hope 98]

Back to the original question.

I left a church 3 years ago, after struggling with the pastor & his wife for a long time over the same marriage issues. A man in the church was abusing alcohol and his wife and children and they acted like it was all her fault.

The good part about that church was that the elder defended me. When he left, I didn't think that I could stay without his support. So my family & I went to my current church.

The former pastor tried alternating bribes and threats to get us back. He was running low on warm bodies and offerings.

About a year ago - the church closed. Just about everyone left feeling victimized by the pastor and/or his wife.

I missed the people there - still miss some of them.

I may end up leaving my current church over similar issues. I will miss everyone there very much. While the pastor at the former church was hard to deal with in many ways. I've been comfortable in this church with the only exception being the marriage issue. In most other ways, they are full of love and grace and I'm really confused by their stance.

I'll let you know how this goes.

[Reg]

I wondered how everyone's pastor and church leaders responded when they left their former churches. <snip>

Did anyone here have their pastor or leaders follow up with them when they left, to try to rectify things or mend hurts?
Yes, one of the ones there did.


Here's a dialogue I had with one of the Pastors at my former church I emailed Reason(s) Why I Left. I left and told no one until a couple of weeks later. BTW, he is now the Senior Pastor there and seems to be doing a good job.

When I finally got to meet with him in person, he confided in me that he didn't know what would happen regarding the local church after I told him that there were no new people coming in and practically no youth left. People kept leaving and there were mostly older people left. He said that if it fades away and dies he still feels he has a committment to minister to those who stay.

He was one of the good ones. I've known him since he first came to our area as a ministerial assistant straight from college. Played hockey with him and even body checked him a few times. :D

-------------------

Reg:

Warmest greetings once more. Thanks for your response and kind as well as
helpful remarks. I am very happy for you (and Warren who has spoken to me about
Bramalea Baptist) in your new "home." As you stated, it is wonderful to be part
of a loving and accepting fellowship where you feel very welcome. I am looking
forward to attending services there sometime in the new year.

Also, I am really looking forward to speaking to you in March. No doubt, by
that time, you will have a great deal of information to pass on and I am eager
to hear it as well.

Anyway, have a lovely vacation.

Regards, D

____________________Reply Separator____________________
Subject: Re: Reason(s) Why I Left Toronto-West
Author: reg.borrow@gbd.com (Reg Borrow)
Date: 12/10/97 7:47 AM

Hi D,

Thanks for your concern and speedy reply. I too have valued out friendship over
the many years all the way from those infamous hockey days. :) I wouldn't feel
deeply sorry about my decision to leave the WCG. It has alllowed me the opportunity to
go to the next level in my spiritual growth & walk with God. I am one of the
fortunate ones who has found a loving, nurturing fellowship in which I feel very welcome &
completely accepted. The ones to feel truly sorry for are those who have not
found a new home. We both know several of those who are our friends. I still keep in
touch with some of them. It's quite amazing the life you discover that exists outside
the WCG once a person has left. I am building new bonds of friendship & can truly
call Bramalea Baptist my new home. There are a few of us from the WCG there. I
suspect of few more to follow.

Because it is a Willow Creek affiliate, it is a church that truly believes in the
"Priesthood of all Believers", and we are encouraged to find our spiritual gifts
and align ourselves in serving according to them. After I get back from my winter
vacation I am scheduled to become involved with a specialty small group that has
a 6 week course to help me identify my spiritual gifts. Needless to say, I am
looking very forward to it.

Bramalea is mainly comprised of small groups & after the initial ALPHA program
everyone is strongly encouraged to continue fellowship in one of several small
groups available.

Doug, I can't tell you enough of the relief I now feel being with a fellowship
without all the spiritual baggage. I know it's not perfect and there are some
things I may never be able to accept, but it is so refreshing. We are encouraged to use
our gifts in service to the church. What I find exciting & stimulating is the
atmosphere of evangelism that is present. Having been involved directly with it in the
ALPHA program, I encourage you to focus a lot more in that area. It is one of the keys
to bringing back life & nourishment to a congregation.

I know Fran personally uses the book, "Turnaround Churches" by George
Barna as his handbook in Cleveland. I'm sure you are very familiar with the book. But,
I seriously wonder if those leaders in Toronto West are. The reason being they
seem to be making a lot of the mistakes mentioned in the book. I have some of the book
on disk and could send you a few chapters If U like. Perhaps you could pass on some
pertinent points to the necessary parties.

Always the best regards,

Reg

P.S. I will be quite busy until I leave for my Winter vacation Jan 18. Perhaps
when I return in March we can get together for a coffee.



D wrote:


>> Reg:
>>
>> Greetings from Waterloo. Personally, I am deeply sorry to hear your >>decision about leaving the WCG. I have known you for many years and >>have always valued our friendship and time together even though it has been >>in small bits at times.

>> My prayers will continue for your continued diligence and growth in your
>> Christian walk. Also, if you have time for a coffee in the next couple of weeks
>> or even into the new year if everything is too hectic for you presently.

>> Have a nice day.

>> Regards, D

[Willow]

I was ignored. I had handed over my responsibilities gradually. When I left, other figures were going off to bible college at the same time. It was very easy for them to let me slip away quietly... never left more than a ripple on the surface. People silll wonder to this day where I disappeared to. Isn't that interesting???

[The Prairie Tortoise]

Dear OnTheRoad - here's my story - I apologise for the length :o

I had been working part-time for my church for 6 years as their administrator, website designer, book editor and re-writer and everything. I was paid a laughably small amount for doing this, but I did it because I loved it and loved the people. It took a lot of abuse to make me and my husband want to leave, but in the end we did.

One of the reasons why it took courage to leave the church was because the congregation were given the impression that bad things would happen to them if they left. The pastor, "Dick", told us that many bad things which the devil intended for us were averted because of his fervent effectual prayer for us.

One poor woman who left had her daughter die a couple of months afterwards, and we were given the impression (not explicitly - but the implication was nonetheless very clearly communicated) that the girl died because her mother left the church.

Anyway, I and my husband decided to leave after 7 years of faithful attendance, service and a heck of a lot of 'financial loyalty', shall we say.

On the Sunday after the morning service, we asked to speak to the pastor and we went into his office. Dick was and is the sole pastor - there was no committee and he was under no authority.

We thanked him for his ministry over the years and said that we felt that God was leading us on.

He went silent. I didn't want to leave him stuck without an administrator, so I offered to continue in my poorly paid job. Dick said he'd think about it.

The next day I went in to work at the church. Dick and his wife - we'll call her Maud - were both there. They called me into Dick's office and asked me why we were leaving. I repeated what had been said the day before - there was no way I was going to go into the abuse, the control, the lying, the nepotism etc etc because I needed a reference from the man for my next job. But the fact that God was leading us on was the essential truth.

Anyway, Dick and Maud weren't satisfied with my reply. So Dick leant across his desk and yelled in my face, "I SAID, WHY ARE YOU LEAVING?" And they both started to interrogate me, trying to get goodness-knows-what information out of me (I now know more about Dick's murky history - no wonder he was afraid - but that's for another post.)

But I stuck to what I wanted to say and wouldn't be bullied. When I wouldn't say any more, Dick told me that he was sacking me but I'd have to continue to work for one month while they got someone else. Then he told me to get back to my office and carry on working.

I was shaking and upset, so I told them that I couldn't carry on working that day, and went home. But I did serve out my month's "notice".

I really regret staying in my job (but not the church) another month for my pastor's convenience. I was afraid that I wouldn't get a good reference from him for another job, but in the end I never needed him for a reference - God took care of me there, I believe. But that month was very damaging - I was shunned every day I came into work.

I found out afterwards from relatives who were still attending the church that we were run down and criticised from the pulpit.

Shortly after we left, a group of people also decided to leave (a married couple and two women - all intelligent, well-paid and, most importantly of all, good tithers and givers). Wishing to avoid being criticised and lied about like we were, they wisely decided to stand up and announce their decision to the church.

After a Sunday morning service had finished they stood up and said "thank you" and so on to Dick and Maud, and that they were leaving. They said it gracefully. But Dick exploded. He ranted on at them, finally yelling, "Well, I don't want people like you in my church - THERE'S THE DOOR - GET OUT!"

Several other sincere Christians who were in the service that morning never went back either. (Although really none of them should have returned after that... but there you are.)

The very next church we went to, we told the pastor our story (we badly needed emotional support, having lost my job and virtually all our 'friends' overnight), but the pastor's wife scorned us because, as she told me, we had "left our previous church under a cloud". So now we just keep quiet about it.

Since then, Dick has gone from strength to strength through his relentless self-promotion. There was recently a programme on the BBC about him. I can give anyone a link about it if they're interested. It just makes you hope that there will be some judgment in the next world for the lives he's wrecked.

And that's my story.

[Ontheroad]

Dear Prairie Tortoise,

Wow. Your story is so similar to mine in many ways. I am so sorry for all you went through with your pastor. I just can't fathom what gets into these self-proclaimed great men of God where they become so controlling and cruel in the name of their authority.

I hope you find health and healing and a Godly church that will let you talk about your experiences in a nonjudgmental way.l

Ontheroad

[The Prairie Tortoise]

Thank you, Ontheroad - it's so lovely to hear a sympathetic voice :) I'm glad to have found this forum because it means I can get this stuff off my chest - it's been nearly 5 years since we left Dick's organisation but there seems to be a conspiracy of silence amongst most Christians - you can't talk about bad pastors because they "don't exist"... so you end up feeling it must be your fault in some way.

Anyway, so it's nice to communicate. As someone once said (I can't remember who) "Expression is catharsis": very true!

xxxx