Do not be conformed ...

[Elisabeth]

I was just thinking of the verse, "Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that is good, acceptable, and perfect." I think that in the SA church I was in, as in a lot of SA churches, that verse is re-written to "Do not be conformed to this world, but be conformed to the church and the pastor." Anybody's thoughts on this?

[Voyager]

Here's a good transalation of the version that my former church used:

"Be not conformed by this world, and do not think for yourself. But rather, be ye transformed by turning your mind over to the pastor so that you may be able to do what is good in the sight of your pastor-god. Strip thyself of thine own identity and personality, and live and breathe every word that thy pastor speaks."

The good news is that this process can be reversed! It takes time, but if you become adamant that you are not going to let these bastards ruin your life, you CAN decide who you want to be and what you want to think.

For me, coming out of this brainwashing process was like coming off of a bad drug addiction. At first you just want to find another drug source (another controlling leader). You go through withdrawals. You feel confused and unable to make decisions for yourself (because you let someone else do it for so long). But eventually, these symptoms wear off little by little and you regain your own personhood and identity. That is, unless you get back under another controlling leader - then the process starts all over again.

Right now you are in "detox" Elisabeth. Stay close to this forum, and pour your heart out. Don't feel like you are being "bitter" for venting. You have to pour all of that garbage out before you can refill yourself with better ways of thinking. I always say, if you don't let it out, it will stay in.

:cool:

[mary]

Here's a good transalation of the version that my former church used:

"Be not conformed by this world, and do not think for yourself. But rather, be ye transformed by turning your mind over to the pastor so that you may be able to do what is good in the sight of your pastor-god. Strip thyself of thine own identity and personality, and live and breathe every word that thy pastor speaks."

The good news is that this process can be reversed! It takes time, but if you become adamant that you are not going to let these bastards ruin your life, you CAN decide who you want to be and what you want to think.

Right now you are in "detox" Elisabeth. Stay close to this forum, and pour your heart out. Don't feel like you are being "bitter" for venting. You have to pour all of that garbage out before you can refill yourself with better ways of thinking. I always say, if you don't let it out, it will stay in.

:cool:

Yes, Voyager! (And some of us women were not only to turn our minds over to the pastor, but our bodies as well... For us, for those of us who were raised as "good Catholic girls" such as moi, that's a trauma on top of the brain-washing, the shaming and shunning, etc. You wind up with so little self-esteem that it's just incredible. Sometimes, you don't even feel like a person anymore, just a thing... The damage that these "pastors" do is inestimable. My husband told me that it's not me who's not a person; it's "pastor" who is nothing but "a male animal." But I keep thinking, why, why, why? Why couldn't he have respected me???? Another woman in the congregation was shocked when, in answer to her question about why we "left," I simply said, "I didn't have a normal pastor-congregant relationship with him - he didn't treat me as he should have." She screamed at me, "No! He wouldn't do that!")

Crying... For Beth, for others on here who've had this and other demeaning things happen... But the Lord loves us and He will take care of us - and He will execute justice on these pastors... (I would still pray that some of them would come to repentance and get born again...)

mary

[Elisabeth]

Right now you are in "detox" Elisabeth. Stay close to this forum, and pour your heart out. Don't feel like you are being "bitter" for venting. You have to pour all of that garbage out before you can refill yourself with better ways of thinking. I always say, if you don't let it out, it will stay in.

:cool:

It's funny to hear you say that I'm in "detox", considering how many years ago I left that church. But when I think about it, it has always been so close because of my in-laws. And for so many years I had trust issues with pastors because of the sexual abuse; through counseling and good friends I no longer have very many trust issues. And I realize that, down in the core, I was always hoping for a pastor I could trust, and to get a close friendship with a pastor, like what I thought I had with my abuser before that became sexual. I realize now that what I thought was a close friendship was him getting me more and more under his control. In short, I realize what I thought I wanted was, in reality, more spiritual abuse. That is so creepy. :eek:

The first lines of a song I like goes "And the pain falls like a curtain on the things I once thought certain. And I have to say the words I just don't know. And the questions without answers come and paralyze the dancer."
That's the way I feel right now. I'm in pain, and things I thought were certain have been turned upside down. I have questions, and am not sure they have answers; hell, I'm not sure how to even ask the questions. But I know that God is good, and he will help me through this.

[Elisabeth]

I decided that I want to be myself. I have been brainwashed and through a lot of bull, but I want to spit all of that in the eye and say, I am a person!:mad: I just want to love God without having the constant reminder of when a person decided he was God in my life. I want to love my husband without having the constant reminder of a "pastor" who so confused me I thought that going to bed with him was the way to get closer to God.

I look up and say "God, where are you?":confused: I'm fighting, really fighting right now, but I'm not sure it's a bad thing to be fighting, for I am also seeking.

[Voyager]

I look up and say "God, where are you?":confused: I'm fighting, really fighting right now, but I'm not sure it's a bad thing to be fighting, for I am also seeking.
Fighting to regain your self identity and for your rights to be free from torment resulting from abuse is a good, healthy thing. It's not like you're not fighting against God, but at times I have wondered why He hasn't helped me recover faster. For so long I felt "stuck". I think this is a common feeling among abuse and trauma survivors. The only way to get unstuck is to fight for what is rightfully ours. Healing and recovery is yours. But it doesn't come without a struggle.

:cool:

[QueenKnitter]

(((((((((((((Elisabeth))))))))))) You are so brave to meet your fears head-on like this. That is just so hard.

IIRC, the literal interpretation of Romans 12:1&2 is: "Don't be squeezed into the world's mold from the outside-in, but be transformed from the inside-out."

I think it's VanVonderen that makes the point that any squeezing from the outside is worldy. But *God* transforms from the inside-out.

So you're on the right track! I will be praying for you.

QK

[Jerry]

I was just thinking of the verse, "Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that is good, acceptable, and perfect." I think that in the SA church I was in, as in a lot of SA churches, that verse is re-written to "Do not be conformed to this world, but be conformed to the church and the pastor." Anybody's thoughts on this?

The ironic thing is that "They" are the ones who end up conformed to the World,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,;) serves them right I guess ;)

[DiligentLily]

I know you are in a lot of pain, Elisabeth, but it is wonderful to me to see you beginning this journey. You mustn't feel like there's anything wrong with you because you're still feeling so bad after all these years. I left my abusive church 13 years ago, and I never heard the phrase 'spiritual abuse' until about 10 months ago. And here's something else, I never realized that I was grieving the loss of those old friendships until just this week! :confused: And I'm afraid to really recognize how much it hurts because I can tell that once I open the floodgates, I won't be able to control my emotions. I never like getting that way.

So sorry to shanghai your thread. I always end up talking about myself when I'm trying to encourage other people.

Back to work/healing/grieving (no not quite yet.....) :(

[SpinningHead]

I was just thinking of the verse, "Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that is good, acceptable, and perfect."

For the private school I had to attend, this meant I always had to wear dresses/skirts/coulotts (stupid flare skirts for each) 3" below the knee - even when playing sports, long hair and collars on the tops up to the neck. For boys it meant their hair had to be 2" off the back of the collar and 1" off the ears. The dress codes were so extreme...we looked stupid. and it didn't do a bit of good for my mind either. :mad: and looking like a freak that everyone laughed at when we went out in public didn't prove what the will of God was for everyone's life.

No seriously, if you live a life for God...you can wear this same outfit!! :eek:

[Elisabeth]

I have a right to live a life free of abuse. I have a right to live a life free from the constant reminders of abuse. Christ set us free, all of us. :D :D

[mary]

I have a right to live a life free of abuse. I have a right to live a life free from the constant reminders of abuse. Christ set us free, all of us. :D :D

:D :D :D NOW YOU'RE TALKING!!! :D :D :D

Yes! He did set us free - blessedly free. He took our sins away; as far as the east is from the west are our sins set from us. The Father looks at us only with love - for He sees His precious, unique, adopted child! It doesn't matter at all how others see us.

Keep on keepin' on, Beth - more power in our Lord Jesus Christ to you and to everyone else here who is suffering... Voyager, God bless you, and everyone else here!

(My posts will be shorter for awhile - I'm typing with wrist splints on both wrists. Big-time carpal tunnel syndrome. Had shots for awhile; they didn't work. Neither did the keyboard and mouse "adaptive equipment." Whatever. Little thing like CTS can't hold me back.)

Love,

mary

[Reg]

snip

(My posts will be shorter for awhile - I'm typing with wrist splints on both wrists. Big-time carpal tunnel syndrome. Had shots for awhile; they didn't work. Neither did the keyboard and mouse "adaptive equipment." Whatever. Little thing like CTS can't hold me back.)

Love,

mary[/LEFT]
Back from my holidays and just catching up here.

Mary, I had the same problem for years. Went to the doctor and he did a short 10-15 minute operation with a local. It is very easy to fix the problem.

It healed in about two-weeks and I have had no problems since. If I knew how easy and simple it was to fix the problem, I would have done it many years ago. Why did I have to put myself through all those years of suffering with this?

As an added note, I'm scheduled for a knee replacement March 14. I have suffered for many years with it taking herbals. They helped some but it just kept getting worst. I simply had to make the decision to do it. With the amount of pain I've been going through lately, I'm actually looking forward to it and I hate hospitals and operations. Besides, it's really starting to affect my golf game. :D

[mary]

Back from my holidays and just catching up here.

Mary, I had the same problem for years. Went to the doctor and he did a short 10-15 minute operation with a local. It is very easy to fix the problem.

It healed in about two-weeks and I have had no problems since. If I knew how easy and simple it was to fix the problem, I would have done it many years ago. Why did I have to put myself through all those years of suffering with this?

As an added note, I'm scheduled for a knee replacement March 14. I have suffered for many years with it taking herbals. They helped some but it just kept getting worst. I simply had to make the decision to do it. With the amount of pain I've been going through lately, I'm actually looking forward to it and I hate hospitals and operations. Besides, it's really starting to affect my golf game. :D

Reg-M., welcome back!!!! :D :D :D I hope you had a pleasant and blessed holiday and I'm so happy to see you back!

And - I'm happy you're having a knee replacement; I'll be praying for you. As I may have mentioned, I had a total right hip replacement years ago (it was destroyed by chemotherapy; now I need the left one done, but it'll have to wait until my counts improve) and oh, what blessed relief it was! I was only in the hospital for 4 days - and I have aplastic anemia. Anyway, I saw a lot of people in the hospital and in PT later who'd had knee replacements and okay, while you'll be in pain for a couple of weeks -- there'll come that day when you say, "Knee pain? What knee pain?!" You'll be completely free of it and your golf game will be better than ever! :) :) :) It's so wonderful what they can do with joint replacements now! If I could have my left hip done tomorrow, I would, even though the right one was no "picnic in the park" for awhile afterwards.

Reg, you'll be in our prayers; keep us posted, dear bro. in Christ!

Love,

mary

[Carmen]

I was just thinking of the verse, "Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that is good, acceptable, and perfect." I think that in the SA church I was in, as in a lot of SA churches, that verse is re-written to "Do not be conformed to this world, but be conformed to the church and the pastor." Anybody's thoughts on this?

Yeah, that's what I felt like, manipulated to believe the trash they were throwing at me, listening to the "right" music, dressing "properly," it was a whole sub-culture. Only do business with Christians, speak the lingo, female subordination. Christian TV promoted and still promotes a lot of that junk, like the prosperity gospel, word-faith, healing campaigns a la Benny Hinn, seeking spiritual experiences by working up a frenzy during worship, blessing conveyed by objects like small pieces of cloth... Carman, who seemed to belong to it too, did have some good words in an old song, "and they only drink milk from a Christian cow..." Everything outside that sub-culture was the big, bad world. That wasn't even the SA though, at least I don't quite see it that way, it was "just" deception. But I conformed to all that junk. I never sent in a piece of cloth, but I believed what they said about it. :rolleyes: Now I can only shake my head. They were part of the world too, though they didn't know it.

Mary,

found a good and informative link about carpal tunnel syndrome and remedies, though you probably have already seen it.

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/carpal_tunnel/detail_carpal_tunnel.htm