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Voyager

01-31-2007, 09:11 AM

Mary posted this on another thread, and I felt like it would be a good topic for a new thread:

I decided a few months ago to "get real" with y'all and be who I really am. But did you guys break fellowship with me? No. For awhile, I wondered whether I would still be welcome here - and I found out that resoundingly, I was! :) :) :) Would I break fellowship with you because we happen to disagree on secondary doctrine and a few other, minor things? No! I didn't think that was what this forum was about...

We're all here to recover and to get support from others who have suffered from spiritual abuse, not to debate doctrine, anyway. I'm thankful for the friends I've made here, whether you're conservative, such as I, or wherever you are on the spectrum.

I've had times after a few of my past rants that I wondered if I would still be accepted here too. A few times it took a while for the heat to blow over. This usually happened when someone would come onto the forum and start a "trainwreck". Triggers would get tripped in many of us, and I would find myself in the middle of the wreckage. I would pull myself out, wait until the dust cleared, and then apologize. Many times I wondered if all of you would even want me around anymore. But what I found is that I have really made some good, loyal friendships here - and it takes more than a trainwreck to pull them away from me. This alone has been a great source of recovery for me.

To know that the friendships I have here are deeper than one little argument over religious doctrine means more to me than words could ever express. This is the difference between spiritually abusive religion and the type of fellowship that God meant for us to have. I don't believe God ever writes us off - even when we are at our worst. So, what type of relationships do you think God wants us to have with each other? You got it - friendships that are not easily written off (which is the opposite of what we had in our spiritually abusive churches).

To think that I am still friends with Patty, Janice, Willow, Jerry, Reg, and all of the other great people here is a miracle in itself (please don't feel slighted if I didn't mention your name, there are just too many good friends that I have here). None of us probably believe exactly the same way in our religious beliefs, yet we are all tolerant and friendly with each other. That, my friends, is a sign of healing and recovery in itself. This allows us to find true acceptance without having to hide the person we really are behind a plastic veneer of religion.

:)

SpinningHead

01-31-2007, 09:15 AM

How would we grow as a Christian and as a person if we all agreed with each other over everything all the time?

We have to listen to new ideas and weigh them carefully if we want to grow in empathy and compassion towards one another.

jane

01-31-2007, 09:48 AM

voyager-

feeling slighted here :p

LOL.

I agree. I will read posts that I totally disagree with....but I don't feel triggered unless I am being told that what is wrong with me is that I don't agree with the post.........

I also get triggered by people attacking people.......mostly new people coming "to save us from______________ (whatever their personal mission is at the time).

I have also wondered if I would be welcomed back....even once being blocked from being able to post :p

but you know, we are all growing....and the wounds are healing.

and REAL friendships have room for differences.

We weren't taught that at our old church. Only conformity....becoming disciples was more like pollyanna.....they were making us into images of themselves...or what they thought had "a spirit of success".

so glad I'm gone.......

jane

Voyager

01-31-2007, 09:55 AM

REAL friendships have room for differences. We weren't taught that at our old church.
Ditto, and well said. I believe that this is what caused many of us to become so distrustful of people after we left these places. We were conditioned to believe that our acceptance was based on our religious performance instead of who we are as a person. This caused me to become worried that at any time the people in my life may cut me off for saying or doing something wrong. This has taken me years to recover from, and for a while I was worried that the distrust would never go away. But the longer I stay friends with people who don't write me off, the more trusting I am becoming.

:)

mary

01-31-2007, 12:41 PM

Thanks, Voyager, for starting this and for opening this discussion... :)

It's ironic that this should come up now, because over just the past weekend, I had to break fellowship permanently with that friend I was talking about on another thread. (This has caused me a lot of physical and emotional turmoil, and with "no functioning bone marrow" showing up on my biopsies, that's the last thing I need.) I do believe that she's a sister in the Lord, but she was attempting to bully me into initiating a "reconciliation" with "pastor." He has never come to me and apologized; he has never contacted me; as far as I know, he is totally unrepentant. He tried to break up my marriage. I believe that it would be sinful for me to initiate anything with "pastor." My husband has forbidden the mention of his name in our home and I have to go along with that. That's R.'s right.

But my "friend" gave me a book that purportedly detailed what I was supposed to do to "make things right" with "pastor," although she did concede that "due to our circumstances, full restoration of fellowship probably wouldn't be appropriate." (No - you're kidding, right? :eek: ;) ) When I told her, "No mas!" and also that she and I needed to part ways, she told me that I was forbidden by the Bible to break fellowship with her. So I finally said to her, flat-out, in an e-mail just yesterday morning, "Do not respond to this e-mail. Do not attempt to contact me in any other way. If you do, I will take appropriate measures." (I would have my attorney send HER a letter, or I would get a PPO.)

Okay. Would anyone say that this was wrong? Sometimes I think it's necessary, such as in this extreme case, to do things like this. Truth be told, she is the only person I have ever in my life said that to. But I would never say that to anyone here on this forum. First of all, everyone here is more civilized and even if someone weren't, well, we all know what it's like to be hurt while trying to serve the Lord - and hurt badly. The last thing I would want to do in this forum is to hurt someone. Frankly, my "pride," if I have any, belongs in the trash and not displayed for all to see. :D My "pride" must be only in our Lord and Savior - and He doesn't need me to argue His case for Him, whether I think posting something in support of Reformed theology or the KJV or whatever is called for or not. "Guess what, Mary - you need to back off!" - is what I think He'd say to me! :) :p

I guess what I had with that "friend" wasn't real. Otherwise, she, even though she's never been married herself, would have seen that of course, marriage must be respected and that maybe, just maybe, a clergyman who would require me to go against my vows is not someone in the first place with whom I should be "reconciling."

I'm bouncing around here, but I still think that we can have "secondary doctrine" discussions and still be okay. I have a dear friend whom I've known for 10 years. I met him and his wife in a church. He's an Arminian; he thinks that every point of the Calvinism that I hold to is balderdash (except for the preservation of the saints; he does believe in that). We never, ever fight! :D I have other friends who think that my KJV position is nuts, but I know I'm going to be spending eternity praising the Lord with these people and so, I'd better get along with them here on earth - and I do.

Are there "non-negotiables?" Yes. Murder. Armed robbery. Extortion. Adultery. A few other things as well, but doctrinal positions and Bible versions and theology? Not worth losing friends over; not, especially, worth losing forum friends over.

I envy the get-together that some of you just had in the Lancaster, PA area. If anyone else - I know one person! - is in the southern MI-northern OH-northeastern IN-southwestern ON area -- let's get together sometime, okay? I mean it! :D

You are all very, very special.

Love in Him,

mary

DiligentLily

01-31-2007, 01:15 PM

I do believe that she's a sister in the Lord, but she was attempting to bully me into initiating a "reconciliation" with "pastor." He has never come to me and apologized; he has never contacted me; as far as I know, he is totally unrepentant. He tried to break up my marriage. I believe that it would be sinful for me to initiate anything with "pastor." My husband has forbidden the mention of his name in our home and I have to go along with that. That's R.'s right.

But my "friend" gave me a book that purportedly detailed what I was supposed to do to "make things right" with "pastor," although she did concede that "due to our circumstances, full restoration of fellowship probably wouldn't be appropriate." (No - you're kidding, right? :eek: ;) )

First of all, you have my prayers for your health, dear one!

You did exactly right. There is something insidious in this forcing people into reconciliations. It is happening to me and my husband right now. It is a way to manipulate the more forgiving and reasonable person (you) into submitting to the power trip of the abuser. You would be exposing yourself to his condemnation, lies and derision again.

All that is really required of you is to forgive him and don't hang onto any of your grievances against him---and that's hard enough to do! A face-to-face meeting is in no way required. What is required of him is to apologize. If he does you must forgive, you know, and that's really hard, but to be made to go further and face him and his contempt and lies again is further abuse of you.

Your ex-friend is a manipulator. She should be putting the pressure on 'pastor' to admit his sins and seek your forgiveness.

DiligentLily

01-31-2007, 01:33 PM

SJPEERYVA85

01-31-2007, 02:18 PM

Sounds to me like it's time to "shake the dust off your feet" as far as this sister goes. Doesn't sound like a loving caring supportive relationship to me. Whatever happened to edification???
BTW, Mary, your personal mailbox is full and I cannot send you any more mail, they tell me, until you clear some of it out.

mary

02-01-2007, 07:42 AM

Mary, I was thinking about this more while throwing a load of laundry in the washer and just getting more and more angry---really angry. I'm not even going to use a little angry emoticon 'cause that's just joke angry.

YOUR CONSCIENCE DOES NOT BELONG TO HER. Your choices about your life are yours and yours alone. Her life and her little childrens' if she has any are the only lives that are her responsibility or her business. Her intrusion and bullying is base manipulation. You don't see it so clearly because you're too close, still, to this abusive sytem in which, I can assume, people acted like they each had ownership over everybody else's lives. That's what it sounds like. That's what my system was like.

And she has compounded her manipulation by adding religious abuse to it when she threw that odious phrase 'breaking fellowship' at you. What is that? That's not even a real thing! It's just a phrase intrusive and manipulative abusive systems use for 'freedom of association.' They don't like it because they want the control. But we are free persons under Christ. We are free to choose our churches and our friendships.

And that 'breaking fellowship' nonsense has the tinge of religiousity to it, the sting of condemnation, the sound of a sin. But it's not a sin, it's a choice. And a darn good one in this case.

Oooooh! Oooooh! Be free of it, my sweet. You have worries of your own that that manipulative woman doesn't have to bear. She can't make these decisions for you (thank heaven!)

Holy smoke, Lily - you must have read my e-mail to this friend!!! I can't believe it! I actually told her that I thought she was trying to bully me into following her conscience, not my own, and as I have a fully-formed and clear conscience as to that church, I was not going to be bullied by her.

Now I feel really, really weird. In the first place, this whole scenario was rather out of character for this friend and it totally blindsided me. I'm left just sputtering. My husband says that he thinks "pastor" is behind it all and that's why he doesn't want the subject of this friend or "pastor" to be brought up between us anymore. "He wants you back," he said. I don't know if my husband is paranoid or what; I do know that "pastor" tried with me for three years...

As to my health problems, okay, these people (my ex-friend and "pastor") are like vultures. Shortly after I turned "pastor" down as to his "suggestion," he said to me, "Why are you even going to doctors? I wouldn't have a problem with your just letting go and going to be with the Lord." I was shocked... :eek: And my ex-friend: she's never been sick a day in her life and does not understand what it's like to sit in a doctor's office and hear him say, "we can't find any functioning bone marrow... I don't know how it is that you're alive..." That's been the Lord's gracious providence for her - and my situation is His providence for me and I cannot second-guess Him on either... (Thanks so much, Lily, for your prayers...!)

I know we're to forgive "70 x 7" if we're asked for forgiveness. I don't know what we're supposed to do if the person who hurt us still thinks they're right and refuses to ask for forgiveness. Of course, I would forgive "pastor" if he asked me to - on the spot, I would forgive him! Right now, I'm not quite there, though. It's only been 15 months. Maybe I'm wrong... I'll pray that the Lord gives me the grace to forgive.

SJ, you're right: I need to shake the dust off... And my PM box is clear now...

Thanks again for just reading this, everyone!

Love to all,

mary

Carmen

02-01-2007, 08:05 AM

Voyager,

Sometimes I do feel like clobbering you after a rant, :p but I still like you and appreciate your posts. I understand that we all are sensitive here, I feel like jumping too or taking something personally when someone gets ornery, but usually manage to stop myself. Sometimes I have typed a long post only to delete it. After the letter I sent to pastorpoo and the repercussions from that, I often reconsider what I write. Sometimes I even sleep on it.

Mary,

I'll keep praying for your situation and health. It is the way of the world and some churches that vultures smell people when they're down and come to prey on them. I just hope that we run into more people that are not vultures, people that are willing to help us up when we're down. I asked the pastor at my parent's church if he knew of anything in your area, but he has not answered. Have you thought about rounding a few people together for a house church? Maybe your husband can do it so that you can rest. Take good care of yourself!

mary

02-01-2007, 08:21 AM

Mary,

I'll keep praying for your situation and health. It is the way of the world and some churches that vultures smell people when they're down and come to prey on them. I just hope that we run into more people that are not vultures, people that are willing to help us up when we're down. I asked the pastor at my parent's church if he knew of anything in your area, but he has not answered. Have you thought about rounding a few people together for a house church? Maybe your husband can do it so that you can rest. Take good care of yourself!

Thanks, Carmen, for the prayers!!! Oh, I do so appreciate and covet prayer! :)

Yes, I'm in contact with a few like-minded people around here... One is that attorney who wrote the slander warning letter. I'm toying with the idea of calling a certain church down in Washington, DC and checking out whether they might be interested in planting a missionary congregation up here. They have one in southern OH; that's the closest one. There's another one, of another denomination, in South Carolina that I'm going to call. It was also suggested to me by a friend who works for the Protestant Reformed seminary that it wouldn't hurt to call them repeatedly and "lean" on them to send a seminarian over here (140 miles; wouldn't be such a hardship) to preach once a month or so. She told me I'd first have to come up with a few families (check!) - and a place to meet (still on the "to-do" list). Well, if someone who works for them thinks that's a good idea, maybe I should act on it.

I'm not giving up. This is too important to give up on. Maybe it's why the Lord is keeping me here with "no functioning bone marrow..." :)

mary

DiligentLily

02-01-2007, 08:51 AM

Deleted at request of author.

Jerry

02-01-2007, 10:53 AM

I know we're to forgive "70 x 7" if we're asked for forgiveness. I don't know what we're supposed to do if the person who hurt us still thinks they're right and refuses to ask for forgiveness.

I know ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"A time for every purpose under heaven....A time for peace,,, a time for war",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,get my drift????
Love Jerry

jane

02-01-2007, 03:30 PM

JERRY-

YOU POSTED MY THOUGHTS>

I was going to say---- THERE's A TIME TO KILL!

Forgiveness NEVER equals putting yourself in harms way again!!!!!!!!!

For me;
Forgiveness is an act that I do out of obedience to Jesus because he tells me to forgive, lest I not be forgiven. So I forgive all of them in the name of Jesus AND STILL DON'T TAKE THEIR CALLS AND EMAILS.

If one of these people raped your daughter......or mother.........these weirdos who twist the word of God would have you believe that you should forgive and forget......and trust the abuser and GOD IN THE abuser to leave your child alone with that person!

THAT IS HOW TWISTED THAT CRAP IS!

Sorry, it is one of my issues....... SO many churches preach the need to forgive MORE than the need to say sorry- AND more than the need to not HURT each other AND more than the need to put up safe boundaries AND more than the need to HEAL from the pain!

A christian is almost like Satan himself full of bitterness and evil if they speak out a painful offense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (According to these false teachers).

Jesus died for our SINS and SORROWS.....it is okay to say, "OUCH THAT HURT ME, STOP DOING THAT!"

OKOKOKOKOK I am off my soap box.

:mad: jane

mary

02-01-2007, 05:24 PM

Lily, your site is awesome and thank you so very much for putting that link there! That article is a keeper. I saw things there that were so terribly descriptive of what I went through that I guess maybe I hadn't seen here before. I'm so glad you gave that to me; I'm going to bookmark it.

Wow - are we ever living in parallel universes (I love that! :) ) or what?! :eek:

What I'm wondering is - and I can smell this like you can often smell rain coming - is who next will "pastor" throw at me? I have a couple of ideas. There's someone not far away, just over the border in Canada, whom I think he'll try to use as his next "tool." I can smell it coming from that direction...:rolleyes: Ain't gonna work, though! :cool:

Jerry - you bet. Time for war. Ephesians 6 to the rescue!!! :D

Hey, Jane! - If those issues are yours, do we ever have some things in common! I felt like cheering when I read your post up there!!! :) :) :) Brava! Excellent!!! Let 'fly' like that!!! I totally agree! (Now that your hormones are in gear ;) and you're totally thinking properly! - I did that, too, when I was newly pregnant... Trouble was, it lasted through 41 weeks... At 38 weeks, I threw a broom into a wall, stick-side first, and it stuck - parallel to the floor. My husband couldn't believe it and I couldn't either. I mean, I'm only 4'10" and although I obviously put on some weight during the pregnancy, I didn't think I could do something like that. I guess I was that mad - or something!)

Your encouragement is straight from the Lord. I thank each and every one of you! God bless you!

Love,

mary

DiligentLily

02-01-2007, 05:27 PM

Sorry, it is one of my issues....... SO many churches preach the need to forgive MORE than the need to say sorry- AND more than the need to not HURT each other AND more than the need to put up safe boundaries AND more than the need to HEAL from the pain!

A christian is almost like Satan himself full of bitterness and evil if they speak out a painful offense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (According to these false teachers).

Jesus died for our SINS and SORROWS.....it is okay to say, "OUCH THAT HURT ME, STOP DOING THAT!"

OKOKOKOKOK I am off my soap box.

:mad: jane

Jane, even before my church became blatantly abusive, it was unhealthy and one of the things that always happened was that when one person injured another and the injured one complained, everybody put pressure on the injured one to stop making trouble. But they don't usually say it that way. They say you're 'dividing the body' or 'bringing a spirit of bitterness' or a 'root of bitterness.' They think if they baptize their abuse with Christianese it's ok. I never could understand why they didn't ever confront the person who started it. Why did they always protect the person that did the harm?

I think it was control. Usually the one who did harm was stronger, and the harmed one was more easily manipulated, so that's who they went after. Terrible. :mad:

Oh, and one more thing--they HATE boundaries! Boundaries offend their sense of their importance. Boundaries remind them that they should stay in their place. So they violate them all the time.

Done now...

Hope 98

02-01-2007, 09:51 PM

A christian is almost like Satan himself full of bitterness and evil if they speak out a painful offense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (According to these false teachers).

Jesus died for our SINS and SORROWS.....it is okay to say, "OUCH THAT HURT ME, STOP DOING THAT!"

OKOKOKOKOK I am off my soap box.

:mad: jane

well - if you're off the soap box - I can get on :D

This is something I may never stop struggling with. If I have to deal with one more accusation of unforgiveness I think I'll blow up.

Forgiveness is one thing and it is hard enough. Reconcilliation is something else entirely. Is relationship possible with someone who behaves as if they have no conscience?

It seemed to hit me suddenly and recently that relationships require understanding. There is no such thing as brushing aside wounds and abuses and starting over as if nothing happened. It's dishonest. When I started thinking about dishonesty - lies - it's not hard to figure that it's not from God.

I think this is just what betrayal does to a caring person.

DiligentLily

02-02-2007, 06:40 PM

well - if you're off the soap box - I can get on :D

This is something I may never stop struggling with. If I have to deal with one more accusation of unforgiveness I think I'll blow up.

Forgiveness is one thing and it is hard enough. Reconcilliation is something else entirely. Is relationship possible with someone who behaves as if they have no conscience?

It seemed to hit me suddenly and recently that relationships require understanding. There is no such thing as brushing aside wounds and abuses and starting over as if nothing happened. It's dishonest. When I started thinking about dishonesty - lies - it's not hard to figure that it's not from God.

I think this is just what betrayal does to a caring person.

Jane, forgiveness is just what my husband and I are struggling with right now. Do we bury what's been done to us, or do we deal with it until we've processed the pain and gotten to a point where we understand it and can let it go? I thought that maybe, in order to forgive, I'd have to shut down my personal blog, because when I write about spiritual abuse there, I am remembering and thinking about the wrongs they did to me, instead of setting them aside.

I'm not shutting it down, though. I'm going to keep it up. I don't know what forgiveness requires, but I do know that my healing requires that I keep blogging.

mary

02-02-2007, 07:00 PM

jane

02-03-2007, 10:56 AM

They say you're 'dividing the body' or 'bringing a spirit of bitterness' or a 'root of bitterness.'

that is the same language that I heard in my group--- or "you're operating from a place of bitterness" (so that no matter if the offense is real because of where your operating from you just disclaimed your right to be right)

They didn't like boundaries in our church either, called the word, "worldly psychobabble"

Isn't there a proverb that says, "your boundaries are laid in pleasant places" ?

jane

jane

02-03-2007, 11:00 AM

To add, it also robbs us of the ability to have a deep relationship (that is forgiving and acting like things didn't occur).

See, in my relationship with my husband- it has been in those painful places with each other- that we FACE HEAD ON- and make a part of our lives that we have grown deeper.

In those old relationships of forgiving and forgetting- we became puppet like with each other- superficial- and a lack of trust for me. I was not myself after that, I kept up a wall of pretending......

I much prefer the relationships that I can be myself and not have to be on my toes pretending that all is fine all of the time........

jane

well - if you're off the soap box - I can get on :D

This is something I may never stop struggling with. If I have to deal with one more accusation of unforgiveness I think I'll blow up.

Forgiveness is one thing and it is hard enough. Reconcilliation is something else entirely. Is relationship possible with someone who behaves as if they have no conscience?

It seemed to hit me suddenly and recently that relationships require understanding. There is no such thing as brushing aside wounds and abuses and starting over as if nothing happened. It's dishonest. When I started thinking about dishonesty - lies - it's not hard to figure that it's not from God.

I think this is just what betrayal does to a caring person.

Jerry

02-03-2007, 11:02 AM

Oh, dear Lily, you can't bury it! Give it to the Lord every day; pray about it, give it to Him again... (This is not my advice alone; this was given to me by that Messianic rabbi who knows my story.) Try giving it to the Lord and not taking it back... Blogging helps, I know! I've blogged some of my stuff, but some Europeans go on it and they just have to "twist that dagger," so I don't blog much of it.

Praying for you and your husband...

mary
Dear Lil,,,,
I agree 100% with the above quote.......I went to your blog this am.............It is WONDERFUL !!!!!!! Don't you dare close it down :D If you do close that blog,,,,,,I will hunt you down ,,,,hehehehehe ;) :D
Love Jerry

jane

02-03-2007, 11:08 AM

I find that burying anything means it will resurface again later. Like a wound that doesnt' heal has to be lanced to bleed again to heal correctly-- so goes the things in my life that I bury. Lancing is painful. I prefer to deal with things face on if I can. I can't always.

I think you know yourself well, for healings sake, don't shut down the blog.

I think sometimes we worry that we will be consumed by the thoughts of our abuse- because it can be so much in the forefront of our minds. For the first year or so, I couldn't eat,sleep,or do anything without thinking on it. I was afraid that I was obsessed and wanted to put it away.

we didn't.

But after a while we started choosing to live for our own dream, our children's lives and started there. Now we are so busy that the abuse is often an after thought in our lives.

time.

that is what it took.

time. time and getting up with one foot in front of the other walking towards living the life that I have for today. For today, I play in the snow with my children. Soon living becomes more natural........surving the abuse becomes less painful.

I don't know if I am making any sense to you. Keep blogging- because as you wrote, you know already what you need to do to heal.

love,
jane

QUOTE=DiligentLily;46102]Jane, forgiveness is just what my husband and I are struggling with right now. Do we bury what's been done to us, or do we deal with it until we've processed the pain and gotten to a point where we understand it and can let it go? I thought that maybe, in order to forgive, I'd have to shut down my personal blog, because when I write about spiritual abuse there, I am remembering and thinking about the wrongs they did to me, instead of setting them aside.

I'm not shutting it down, though. I'm going to keep it up. I don't know what forgiveness requires, but I do know that my healing requires that I keep blogging.[/QUOTE]

DiligentLily

02-05-2007, 07:12 PM

They didn't like boundaries in our church either, called the word, "worldly psychobabble"

I've told this story before, but it fits here. In my old church, the single guys were constantly approaching the single women and giving them backrubs. It was a real test of your boundaries, and whether you were going to keep aloof. I kept aloof. It was creepy.

Also, Queen Bee, (my Mrs. Abuser,) once asked me, a single woman, very personal questions about my sexual appetites. It flabbergasted me. I was singe, didn't know what she meant, and didn't know her very well. What the heck was she talking about, I wondered? I just sputtered. Very, very wierd. I guess she was trying to break down my boundaries, too. She always was and still is, as far as I can tell, in everybody's business all the time.

DiligentLily

02-05-2007, 07:35 PM

Jane, Jerry and Mary, somehow I missed a page of posts, so here quick:

Jane, you're making a lot of sense about the healing process. I can see it working that way. My counsellor said to me exactly what you (and others) said, too, that you can't bury it. If you don't work it through then the forgiveness isn't real. Just like you said! :cool:

And Jerry and Mary thank you so much for your encouragement about my blog. It's great to know that you visited!

Elisabeth

02-05-2007, 07:37 PM

A christian is almost like Satan himself full of bitterness and evil if they speak out a painful offense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (According to these false teachers).

Jesus died for our SINS and SORROWS.....it is okay to say, "OUCH THAT HURT ME, STOP DOING THAT!"

OKOKOKOKOK I am off my soap box.

:mad: jane

Gosh, Jane, that sounds so much like some of the stuff I have heard! "Stay quiet, forgive that pastor for leading you away from the Cross and sexually exploiting you. If you can't just bury it, you must be full of bitterness.":mad:
And some of the people who have said or implied things along those lines are my in-laws. The same abusive pastor who took advantage of me sexually when I was in my early twenties has her believing that everything he says and does is right.
And that does hurt.

Ladybug

02-06-2007, 12:43 AM

Jane, forgiveness is just what my husband and I are struggling with right now. Do we bury what's been done to us, or do we deal with it until we've processed the pain and gotten to a point where we understand it and can let it go? I thought that maybe, in order to forgive, I'd have to shut down my personal blog, because when I write about spiritual abuse there, I am remembering and thinking about the wrongs they did to me, instead of setting them aside.

"I'm not shutting it down, though. I'm going to keep it up. I don't know what forgiveness requires, but I do know that my healing requires that I keep blogging.'

Hi,

I went and looked up your blog page and I'd like to read what you have written.

I wanted to say what I have read so far is informative and I want to look up some of your book titles. Thank you for all the work you did .

jane

02-06-2007, 05:04 AM

Lily-

THAT is the first time that i read that story- THAT IS SEXUAL ABUSE if I ever heard it...... Don't ever let anyone touch you in any way if you don't want the touch!!!

CRAP that triggered me! Can you imagine????? That is clearly a way of a man making certain that he can do WHAT he wants to you while you submit.

If someone touches me after I've told them not to, they'd be slapped or BIT!

jane

I've told this story before, but it fits here. In my old church, the single guys were constantly approaching the single women and giving them backrubs. It was a real test of your boundaries, and whether you were going to keep aloof. I kept aloof. It was creepy.

Also, Queen Bee, (my Mrs. Abuser,) once asked me, a single woman, very personal questions about my sexual appetites. It flabbergasted me. I was singe, didn't know what she meant, and didn't know her very well. What the heck was she talking about, I wondered? I just sputtered. Very, very wierd. I guess she was trying to break down my boundaries, too. She always was and still is, as far as I can tell, in everybody's business all the time.

DiligentLily

02-06-2007, 05:32 PM

jane

02-07-2007, 05:13 AM

((hugs))

jane

DiligentLily

02-07-2007, 10:43 AM

((hugs))

jane

(((backrubs)))) :D :D