Pastor's Letter To My Lawyer!

[mary]

I am so mad I can't see straight right now. Hopefully, I'll be able to finish this. :mad: :mad: :mad: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Some of you long-timers here may remember that I had a slander warning letter sent to "pastor" in Dec., 2005 because shortly after he threw me out of the church, he was spreading a bunch of lies about me. A friend told me that one lie was that I was having an "inappropriate relationship" with one of my doctors, and he named the man, first and last names. I ran this news by the doctor; he told me to "get him to shut up, whatever you have to do." I suggested the possibility of having a slander warning letter sent. I drafted it, the doctor approved it, my attorney signed it and off it went. Later, I heard that pastor was extremely upset about it.

I have just heard - my attorney held out on me until just now! - that two weeks after that slander warning letter was sent, he heard back from "pastor" in a letter. He said, "(Pastor) acknowledged the receipt of the letter, and..." AND WHAT? I wanted to know. He said, "You don't need to see it."

Son of a b****! I was wondering why my attorney wouldn't meet with me in his office; he told me he'd have to see me in the coffee shop in the basement of his building instead "so we'd have more privacy." (I was bringing him a couple of great sermon CDs that I'd just gotten.) It was because he knew he was going to tell me that he'd heard back from "pastor" - and I would have insisted on seeing the letter if I'd been in his office, that's why!!!! And it's probably something very upsetting and he didn't want to deal with me over it. Whatever, dude - if your time is so valuable...

I am so mad now I'm about ready to spit tacks. I can just imagine what "pastor" would have said about me...

Excuse me, but I just have to vent and this is the only place I get to do it these days... :o :o :o :( My husband has forbidden the use of "pastor's" name in our home.

The past relevant info is under my thread, last contributed to last March, entitled, "Was this spiritual abuse?" and also the thread, "Vindication."

I'm sorry... I'm just mad. I'll get over it...:( :( :(

Love,

mary

[butterfly]

[[[[Mary]]]]]

Idea, report your lawyer to the law board. How awfull for him to do this. He was suppose to tell you about that letter.!!!!!!!!:mad: :mad

Poor poor Mary I feel so bad for you.

Would you beable to get another lawyer to go to the coffie shop with you? You should get that letter it is yours.

Why wait till now to tell you Hmmmm??
Well why isn"t his office more private?
Coffie shop doesn"t sound private to me.

It is like a scab that was healing somewhat was ripped open off your heart and the lawyer is pouring salt onto it.:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

I am so sorry Mary that you have to go thru this again.:mad: :mad:

You sure have had enough for one woman.

Praying for you and may God bless you.
I am feeling real sad for you Mary. I wish I could give you a real hug. If you didn"t mind. butterfly shirley

[Jerry]

Dear Mary,,,,
I would call this "Lawyer" and tell him that I would be by his office to pick up one of 2 things,,,,,,,1 A copy of the Pastors response,,,,,2 Or a check refunding every dime he charged you..........Mary If he was working "Pro Bono" that does not release him from attorney/client ethics,,,,,,,HE OWES YOU THAT RESPONSE !!!!!! Mary ,,,I wouldn't ordinarily say this,I know it is a bit sexist but ,,,,,maybe in this instance you would be better off with a Female Lawyer ;)
Love Jerry

[mary]

((((((Patty!))))) and (((((Jerry!))))),

Oh, Patty, I feel your heart of compassion coming through so eloquently and wrapping me in such a sense of peace! Thank you so much, dear sister in the Lord! No, you're right: the coffee shop wasn't private; people were going in and out... He just didn't want me in his office.

And Jerry, dear brother in the Lord - God bless you for every time, including this one, that you come through with wise counsel for us... A female lawyer... The last one I worked for was a butthead and a half, as were other women attorneys I've worked for, and I'd have to think about that.

(Adult content following... be warned.) This comes on the heels of, as I mentioned in another thread, hard lobbying by that "friend" from that church who also left that I "contact 'pastor' and go to him with another pastor, such as one of the Messianic rabbis or that Baptist pastor, and reconcile with him." She is canny enough to admit that "full resoration of fellowship with him probably wouldn't be advisable" (no kidding! - he was taking, and wanted more of, what were, in truth, FORCED vertical "lap activity" from me :mad: :mad: :mad: ) but that I had a duty under Matthew 18 to do this.

Yesterday I ran this all by one of the Messianic rabbis and he said NO. He reminded me of my precarious (my hematologist's own adjective for my current condition) state of health and he said I owe no duty to anyone under Matthew 18 in this situation. He said I'd done all I could do under the rules of Christian conduct as spelled out in the NT for this. He also advised me to drop this "friend" immediately (he said she was exhibiting "unspeakable cruelty" towards me) and I have just sent her an e-mail doing so definitively.

This is on top of my husband's ordering me to "get away from all these people - I want you around!" Okay. He's right.

I'm considering what to do. Do I really want to see what "pastor's" response consisted of? My husband told me that this attorney is "protecting" me and he doesn't want me to see it for that reason. I have very little capital left in my discretionary accounts of physical and emotional health. Do I want to spend it on this????? :eek: :eek: :eek:

What do you think????

May the Lord of grace and all mercy bless everyone here...

Much love,

mary

[Anna Marta]

My Dearest Mary,

You asked for advice so I shall share my 5 kroners worth.

If you have had a good relationship with your lawyer and consider him a trusted friend too, then perhaps he is doing what your husband said, protecting you from what he seems to consider "harmful" words. Have you asked him IF HE responded to the pastor's letter? Did you ask WHO sent that letter - the pastor or his lawyer? Meeting in a cafe doesn't seem "kosher" in a business relationship such as lawyer client, so was he treating you as your lawyer or your friend?

There are times when we need our husbands to step between us and things that can harm us, it appears your husband is pulling his rank as the man of the house and doing that. He loves you and he is absolutely right. I don't need to tell you that negative stress is a killer.

Your rabbi sounds like a wise man and a compassionate man. His directive is good and right and proper. (he sounds like a good Jewish lawyer)

Mary, as far your doctor is concerned, if I am not wrong it is NOT your place to fight HIS battle and make the pastor shut-up. The doctor has also been slandered and he's got a few more pennies in the bank than you and a lot more to lose in the long run. So let him fight his own battles and pay his own lawyer to send this pastor a letter. :mad:

I hope I have not been too direct or offended you. I care for you very much and can physically feel your anger, pain and frustration through your words.
I am praying for your health and protection as you walk through this time.

Love,
Anna Marta

[mary]

My Dearest Mary,

You asked for advice so I shall share my 5 kroners worth.

If you have had a good relationship with your lawyer and consider him a trusted friend too, then perhaps he is doing what your husband said, protecting you from what he seems to consider "harmful" words. Have you asked him IF HE responded to the pastor's letter? Did you ask WHO sent that letter - the pastor or his lawyer? Meeting in a cafe doesn't seem "kosher" in a business relationship such as lawyer client, so was he treating you as your lawyer or your friend?

There are times when we need our husbands to step between us and things that can harm us, it appears your husband is pulling his rank as the man of the house and doing that. He loves you and he is absolutely right. I don't need to tell you that negative stress is a killer.

Your rabbi sounds like a wise man and a compassionate man. His directive is good and right and proper. (he sounds like a good Jewish lawyer)

Mary, as far your doctor is concerned, if I am not wrong it is NOT your place to fight HIS battle and make the pastor shut-up. The doctor has also been slandered and he's got a few more pennies in the bank than you and a lot more to lose in the long run. So let him fight his own battles and pay his own lawyer to send this pastor a letter. :mad:

I hope I have not been too direct or offended you. I care for you very much and can physically feel your anger, pain and frustration through your words.
I am praying for your health and protection as you walk through this time.

Love,
Anna Marta

Thank you so very much for your 5 kroners' worth, Anna Marta! :) :) And oh, no, you haven't offended me at all!!!! I know how you care... And I'm humbled that you took the time to write at this time in your family's life, with that new grandchild on the way this week!!! By the way, with regard to that, "L'chaim!" :D When you get the time, we'd like to hear all about the birth, okay? (Could you put some pics on that website - please?????!!!!! When you get the time, of course.)

Um, this lawyer was a friend long before he was my lawyer; he's been a Bible study teacher for about 26 years and I trust him... You know what? I was too shocked to ask him if he'd responded to "pastor's" letter. I agree that insisting on meeting me in that stupid coffee shop was not kosher; it was disregarding of and demeaning to me. I gather that the response came from "pastor" himself because as a recent immigrant to this country, he's more than a little intimidated by the American legal system; the only lawyer he knows is an 80+-year-old member of the congregation; plus, the "couched" details in my slander warning letter were not something that he could share with anyone who knows him "without a lot of 'splaining." Frankly, he used to come to me (a paralegal who's an affiliate member of our State Bar Association) when he had any legal questions. I was the doofus who helped him study for his exam when he became a U. S. citizen in 2004 - boy, how I wish now that I hadn't done that! :mad:

I am going to trust my husband on this one. He's calling all the shots. He mailed back the books my "friend" had loaned me; he's screening all calls and my e-mails. You're right that sometimes, we have to let our husbands protect us; that's what the Lord gave them to us for. (I think too few of us take advantage of that; I know I seldom do and that's why I get hurt so much.)

Well, as to my doctor, he didn't ask for this; he's totally innocent and he and I were slandered per se together. (Slander per se in this state: impugning a woman's chastity, or the livelihood as fostered by reputation of a professional man; a nutshell definition.) So I was all for covering both of us in a single letter; I think it was appropriate for this attorney to warn "pastor" that slander and libel are civil wrongs - actually, that's so in every state in this country.

BTW, that "friend" has been bombarding me with e-mails in the last two days and I've been deleting every one. (My e-mail program just sends "blocked senders" to the "deleted items" box - but they're still there. If anyone knows how to prevent "blocked senders" from still getting through in Outlook Express, could you please let me know? I'd so appreciate it!) She asked if we can't just "agree to disagree" about "pastor." She doesn't get it!! :mad: I think she's still in contact with him, although I'd hate to really believe that because I've really unburdened to her - but thankfully, not all the slimy details. At any rate, my husband has ordered that relationship to end permanently and I'm going to go along with that. I don't think I have a choice if I want to keep my sanity.

Anyway, all of this is just so much "dreck" in comparison with what's going on with you, Leah -- I'm excited for you and your family!!! :) :) :)

Love,

mary

[Voyager]

Do I really want to see what "pastor's" response consisted of?
I got a letter from my former pastor once Mary, and it didn't help me to read it at all. It was filled with the same manipulative, poisonous venom that was the cause of my leaving the church to begin with. Nothing had changed. There was not one ounce of remorse or compassion in it. As a matter of fact, the pastor included a copy of a book called "Witches Brew From The Pew", insinuating that I was loosing destructive curses on the ministry by speaking out against it. The letter and the book felt like a hard slap in the face to me, and just added more insult to injury.

I think there is one thing that we all share in common: We want to see our former pastor/abuser repentent and remorseful. We want to hear them admit their guilt. However, after being on this forum (and the one before it) for almost eight years now, I have yet to read one instance of a spiritual abuser admitting his/her mistakes and asking for forgiveness.

Do you really want to read that letter? I cannot answer that question for you, but as for myself, I could have done without seeing my pastor's letter. It didn't help my recovery one iota. That said, I can definitely understand your anger at this attorney for keeping the letter from you. But there is a good chance that it will only make you more angry to read what is in the letter.

:cool:

[Janice]

I am going to trust my husband on this one. He's calling all the shots. He mailed back the books my "friend" had loaned me; he's screening all calls and my e-mails. You're right that sometimes, we have to let our husbands protect us; that's what the Lord gave them to us for. (I think too few of us take advantage of that; I know I seldom do and that's why I get hurt so much.)

I agree with you 100% on this one. Hang in there! Will continue to pray.

[SpinningHead]

My two cents is that I don't think you can make a reasonable decision w/out you with your husband seeing that letter and talking things out.

Your lawyer wasn't hired to keep things from you...he was hired to provide you with all of the information possible for you to make reasonable decisions.

There is no arguement.

I would let him know that you and your husband will be in his office to pick up a copy of that letter, that you & hubby are disappointed in his withholding the letter. Once you have reviewed the letter, you'll be making a decision as to what course of actions you may or may not be pursuing.

I can get awfly straight forward when challenged. :rolleyes:

[Carmen]

(((Mary))) It does sound as if the lawyer wants to protect you, although he could have spelled this out earlier, like when the letter arrived. Maybe you could have him give the letter to your Hubby, and let him decide if he wants to show it to you or not. At least your "better half" will then know what was in the letter. He ought to know what you can take or not. I'd feel angry too though, if he kept the secret of the letter that long, I'd expect a lawyer to be candid with me.

[mary]

Voyager, Janice, SpinningHead, Carmen, thanks!!!! :o

I've decided that I don't need to see "pastor's" letter... Voyager, I think I'm with your reasoning...

If my husband saw it and I didn't, I know exactly what I'd be doing:

1. 3:17 a.m., Saturday morning: "Rich - are you awake? What did that letter say?"

2. 1:50 p.m., Tuesday afternoon (call to him at work on cell phone): "You're not in a meeting right now, are you? What did that letter say?"

Well, you get the picture. He doesn't want to see the letter, but for different reasons. He hates the thought of "pastor" and is one of those rare people who can simply put even the thought of people he hates out of his mind. Permanently. How I envy him! :cool:

I don't care what the pig wrote. I don't care what he called me or said I did. The Lord takes care of liars and I'm going to turn the matter over to Him.

Thanks - and love :) to all here,

mary