Fear of knowledge and confusion

[cryfreedom]

Hi all,

Thought I'd start by saying you have the official seal of approval from my wife. She says "You just need someone else to tell you what happenned was not ok, how you feel is ok and that you are ok"

I would love your feedback on this.

6 months ago I decided to seriously get back 'right' with God. I had just come out of a pretty decent bout of alcoholism and had a fresh perspective on life, coupled with the new world I was experiencing after moving overseas.

I started to attend a church again pray and worship as much as possible. It was weird, I felt so alone and alienated from God, but I was determined that in some way or another he was going to 'show up'and speak to me in some significant way about my life and what the hell was going on! I had just read an amazing testimony "The Heavenly Man" and there was no way I was giving up. I wasn't limiting Him to how, but I was demanding that something would happen!

Well, 3 weeks of sincere effort later, and I felt deflated. I think I felt in my heart that God had let me down again. It was like I was giving Him a chance and He didn't take it...?

I had once relied on people to tell me God says this or that or to make me feel IO was ok in God. I saw this new beginning as an opportunity for me to develop something really deep and personal with God and to rely on Him alone, not people.

I was really loving the worship and prayer and felt like I was getting back to something cool with Him, but it seems that my expectations weren't met and it has just made things harder. I stopped going to church (didn't really like it all that much, although the preaching was best I had heard in a while) and shelved the bible again. the worship/pop song mix- CD I had made just made me angry, I skip all the christian songs.

I hate the confusion I feel about the bible and different movements and beliefs. I just want to keep it all simple, but I know there is deeper stuff in there - stuff that can apparently set you free and lead you to a more amazing relationship with God.

I try to worship, get the guitar out, or put on a CD, but there is just nothing there for me. So i dont try again in a hurry....sigh. Prayer, lol, just nothing rolling off the tongue "Thanks God for my Family" is about all I can manage! Then it all seems pointless and I move on.

So here I am, 3 months later, wanting something real with God, but what is a "real" relationship with God? Relationship is a bit of a clich'e tossed around isn't it?

I guess I am looking for some confirmation from God that where I am at is ok, or not. You know, acknowledging SA and it's effects, and having it change your point of view is quite a freaky thing, I could be completely on the wrong track all over again!!!

Does this rambling make any sense to anyone?:confused: I'm struggling with it and I wrote it! :)

Any thoughts appreciated..

Thanks

cryfreedom

[cryfreedom]

I just looked at the title of my pst, I got a bit sidetracked, they dont quite match :D

[Voyager]

A few questions to stir your thinking process CF:

1. When we are at home, is God with us - or is He only at churches?

2. When we go to church, do we go to be with God - or with people?

3. When we feel let-down by churches, was it God who let us down - or people?

I'm just trying to get you to see the separation between God and people. This took me years to get into my mind and heart. Even though I could HEAR that God and people were not one-in-the-same, I was still blaming God when people let me down.

I've come to the conclusion that I cannot equate church with God. The two are completely separate - and in many ways the opposite of each other. This may sound disappointing, but I believe it is true.

Therefore, I do not believe we need church to have God in our lives. If we need people in our lives - and we do - for many of us, church is not a healthy option to find a solid, trustworthy support system. Too many churches operate on a performance-based acceptance rule. In other words, if you don't follow their specific religious doctrines and rules (not to mention worshiping their leader), you are not accepted. This is why we feel deflated and let-down after going to these places.

Hope this helps.

:cool:

[SpinningHead]

Hi CF,

In honor of your wife...ahem..."What happened to you was NOT ok. How you feel IS ok! and you are most definitely OK!" :)

Do you mind if I project a bit here?? I'm relating to your story and I wonder if for the same reasons. ??

Basically, I grew up with the whole "getting right with God" verbage and it did me much damage b/c I'm well aware of what a big horrible sinner I am and that I can NEVER be "right" with God. So no matter how hard I tried...I wasn't getting "there". They never explain what "there" really means other than this euphoric state of mind and nothing bad ever happens and everything is roses and I have the Midas touch. :mad: And yes, there were times I thought I sensed *something*, felt a *presence* and received *understanding*. What I think now was I was really after an emotional response high to my own actions. In the end, I was tired and got no further to my "rightness with God" than when I had started.

What I think now (and it's been very freeing although hard to practice) is that I can't "get right with God". It doesn't exist. That's based on actions...as if I could read my bible enough, pray enough, be altruistic enough, sing loud enough. The fact of faith is...I AM RIGHT WITH GOD! Because of what Jesus did on the cross for me and that I embrace Jesus as my Savior, he bore the punishment for my sins, that makes me right with God. I don't deserve it...but it's the gift that Jesus gives. And those days when I feel like a big fat failure...I have to remember that I'm still right with God b/c of what Jesus did.

I put my focus on "trying hard to get right with God" that I didn't realize I took my eyes OFF God and onto my own state of salvation (which, IMO was failure). :( That's an evil trick of Satan to get Christian's focus off of God and onto something else, anything else...notice how it doesn't seem evil...a person wants to "be right with God" but look at the path so many Christians go down beating themselves up...and over what?

You were right with God when you accepted Jesus Christ as your Savior. period. You were never UN-Righted by anything or anyone. And anyone tells you different they're a big fat lying idiot and you have my permission to say so.

Just love God. With you're whole heart, whole mind and whole soul. That's all that required. Everyday. As best you can in all that you do, even while eating brussel sprouts. Be kinder to yourself. No point in beating yourself up over what you can't change...just recognize that your everyday IS your relationship with God. Just as in everyday you're in a relationship with your wife...even when you're not specifically focusing on her, you still love her and are committed to that relationship.

Them's my thoughts. Hi to Mrs. CryFreedom! :)

[yeshua'smags]

Spinninghead totally nailed it! The comparason to your marriage is the perfect analogy.

You're trying to seek and know and nothing you are trying so far has worked, big deal. Stop being so hard on yourself, it will come. You just need some time to heal and process and purge the poison out of your system. Just keep seeking, don't give up. God will show Himself when you are ready.;)

[cryfreedom]

Thanks Voyager and SH,

I undertsand your comments about churches. I have long seen church as really just a place for people to get together - network:eek: , "fellowship" and get the chistian thing over with for the week, rather than a place for meeting God at some deeper level. I know many genuine people stand by this sytem, but many of the systems and structures are not really very conducive to meeting peoples needs.

Of course they meet some peoples needs more than others...:rolleyes:

I am not completely anti-church at all, as exwitchoz said on another thread, they have their place. It just seems they often walk a very fine line between helping people and hindering them. I can understand how people might be scared of them.

As a result of my "discipleship" I became the resident expert in beating myself up and then tryng to fix myself again through religious works. Realising this is one thing, changing the deep seated mindset is quite another.

I am naturally a bit of a deep thinker, and that hasn't really helped a lot either! I think I can recall asking God to give me some sort of lobotomy so I couldn't think my way into some of these positions!

I guess I am looking for God to reach out to me in some way that is really real to me, and makes sense to me where I am right now.

This kind of sums it up for me: When I was in the SA situation, when I was praying or whatever, I used to see myself all bound up in chains (if only I had the wisdom to figure out what that was saying to me then). Nowadays this picture has changed. I see myself as fumbling around in a pitch black void.

Thanks for listening and for your thoughts, I really do appreciate it :o

[Reg]

snip

I would love your feedback on this.

snip

Well, 3 weeks of sincere effort later, and I felt deflated. I think I felt in my heart that God had let me down again. It was like I was giving Him a chance and He didn't take it...?

I had once relied on people to tell me God says this or that or to make me feel IO was ok in God. I saw this new beginning as an opportunity for me to develop something really deep and personal with God and to rely on Him alone, not people.

snip

I hate the confusion I feel about the bible and different movements and beliefs. I just want to keep it all simple, but I know there is deeper stuff in there - stuff that can apparently set you free and lead you to a more amazing relationship with God.

snip

So here I am, 3 months later, wanting something real with God, but what is a "real" relationship with God? Relationship is a bit of a clich'e tossed around isn't it?

I guess I am looking for some confirmation from God that where I am at is ok, or not. You know, acknowledging SA and it's effects, and having it change your point of view is quite a freaky thing, I could be completely on the wrong track all over again!!!

Does this rambling make any sense to anyone?:confused: I'm struggling with it and I wrote it! :)

Any thoughts appreciated..

Thanks

cryfreedom
CF, Maggie is right, Spinninghead nailed it.

Try this for simplicilty:

John 6:29
Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

That's it! What else does He require of us?

Of course, Repentance plays a part in this belief. The works part is a natural extension of this belief. Works alone accomplish nothing in God's eyes.

[mary]

John 6:29
Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

That's it! What else does He require of us?

Of course, Repentance plays a part in this belief. The works part is a natural extension of this belief. Works alone accomplish nothing in God's eyes.

That's right. We can add nothing to what Jesus did for us on the cross. He gives us faith - and He gives us the measure of it at any one time that He knows we need - and He gives us the grace to repent and turn away from past sinful patterns. Not that we never again sin, right, Reg? But after we repent, we are turned towards God and away from those patterns of sin. Once we loved them; now we hate them. Now we are in God's family; we've been taken "out of the world" (cf. John 15:18-19) and no longer care for its vain pursuits.

Now, the important thing to remember is that this is a lifelong continuum and we are not to become disheartened with where we are on this continuum. (That's the work of Satan, to make us disheartened and tell us we have no real relationship with God. He is to be ignored.) The Lord will keep on with His work in us until He sees us as He has always, from before the foundation of the world, to see us; we need not fear or worry that He'll drop us from the roster, for He will never do that! "I will never leave you nor forsake you..."

"Pray without ceasing..." (1 Thessalonians 5:17) - I've just learned that "prayer" can just mean keeping God in mind throughout the day. You certainly don't have to go to church to fulfill that enjoinder of Paul's!

Rest in Him, just rest in Him - and keep looking to Him as your Savior!

mary

[Reg]

That's right. We can add nothing to what Jesus did for us on the cross. He gives us faith - and He gives us the measure of it at any one time that He knows we need - and He gives us the grace to repent and turn away from past sinful patterns. Not that we never again sin, right, Reg? But after we repent, we are turned towards God and away from those patterns of sin. Once we loved them; now we hate them. Now we are in God's family; we've been taken "out of the world" (cf. John 15:18-19) and no longer care for its vain pursuits.

snip

mary
At least a lot less than we once did. :D

I have gradually been transformed in the renewing of mind by The Holy Spirit working within me. I find it amazing. For example things I used to like in regards to music. I used to like hard rock & roll, then it was contemporary, now it is classical. Once I could only tolerate a little of it. Now I listen to it all the time on my car radio.Other things like what I watch on TV have changed a lot. I used to like horror. Now I can't stand it. Even some Sci-fi which I used to watch almost all of it, I can only watch the stuff that is not filled with violence. But I'm still a Trekki. :D

The point is, with so many things/sin God has taken away from me comes this incredible sense of Freedom by overcoming so many things in my life.

I used to fight with myself and use my willpower to overcome. I made some success, but kept on falling down. It was only when I discovered the difference between willpower and self-control that I was able to really overcome sin in my life.

[mary]

At least a lot less than we once did. :D

I have gradually been transformed in the renewing of mind by The Holy Spirit working within me. I find it amazing. For example things I used to like in regards to music. I used to like hard rock & roll, then it was contemporary, now it is classical. Once I could only tolerate a little of it. Now I listen to it all the time on my car radio.Other things like what I watch on TV have changed a lot. I used to like horror. Now I can't stand it. Even some Sci-fi which I used to watch almost all of it, I can only watch the stuff that is not filled with violence. But I'm still a Trekki. :D

The point is, with so many things/sin God has taken away from me comes this incredible sense of Freedom by overcoming so many things in my life.

I used to fight with myself and use my willpower to overcome. I made some success, but kept on falling down. It was only when I discovered the difference between willpower and self-control that I was able to really overcome sin in my life.

Exactly, Reg-M.! :)

I used to watch classic movies like "Airport" and things like that - and not notice that all they really were, were glorifications of adultery...

Why would people want to watch violent things, like movies and TV shows that show human bodies being torn apart or eaten or whatever, bodies that were or could have been temples of the Holy Spirit? I don't understand it; I never did understand that. I liked "Jurassic Park" when it came out, but now, when it's on TV, I can't stand it. When you have something like that on and you understand how precious people are to God - puts a whole new light on things, doesn't it? (Literally and Biblically.)

But I do like it when aliens get blown up in certain sci-fi flicks...;) ! Then again, who says these fantasies comport with Philippians 4:8? Aack!!! I've got to get going...:p :p :eek:

mary

[Jerry]

Dear Cryfreedom,,,,
Your post makes perfect sense to me....I am sure your post would make perfect sense to "Jonah" too ;) ..........give him a read ;)
Love Jerry

[ex-shep]

I guess I am looking for some confirmation from God that where I am at is ok, or not. You know, acknowledging SA and it's effects, and having it change your point of view is quite a freaky thing, I could be completely on the wrong track all over again!!!

Does this rambling make any sense to anyone?:confused: I'm struggling with it and I wrote it! :)

Any thoughts appreciated..

Thanks

cryfreedom[/QUOTE]

My wife and I used to usher at church. I do not remember exactly what happened, but somehow my wife messed up in getting the service ready. I recounted the story of Martha and Mary and how Martha was too wrapped up in the preparations to enjoy the real reason for Jesus dropping in for dinner. I turned to her, "you know, you don't have to prove yourself, just be yourself"

HIS magazine, the now defunct monthly publication of Intervarsity Christian Fellowship, had an intriguing article with the byline "Death Valley Quiet Times". The essential thesis is there are just days when one cannot get with the programme. Such states used to drive me absolutely batty. I have lost track of the number of times I would beat myself up for being in that state. The fact was that was where I was for today. The author suggests, and I have taken to heart, just do the best one can for today. Tomorrow is another day.

[Janice]

Yes, you made total sense and yes you're ok!!

Hey..I am most definately NOT where I WANT to be but.......I thank God that I am NOT where I USED to be!!! ;)

[Carmen]

I think that just as Voyager recommended not to associate God with people or God with churches, you can also separate scripture from churches. It might be easier for you to find some nourishment in it if you can mentally separate it from a church setting. Or maybe try a different version than the one that was used against you before, that has helped some people.

You can't be anywhere else right now than where you are - right now. So that has got to be ok - right now. But you have the potential for growth (if you are pretty much at the bottom then you can only go up from here). Don't worry about what everyone else is doing, grow at your own pace. I'd suggest getting back to the core of your beliefs, the gospel. I'd just try to focus on that and see where it goes from there. That is what keeps me steady, always getting back to that and comparing what I have with that. All of the doctrine that really has helped me and means something to me has deepened my perspective of the gospel. It is like an onion that is bigger on the inside than the outside. If you can take it, try reading God is the Gospel by John Piper. I wouldn't worry about relationship right now, just focus on God. Just a suggestion.

You DID suffer, what they did to you WAS wrong. Your feelings ARE completely legitimate and real. You don't have to get over it miraculously as some might say, recovery takes time.