More On Forgiveness

[Voyager]

I realize that I may come across as someone who doesn't embrace forgiveness, but that's really not the case. I don't throw forgiveness out anymore than I throw love out. I just don't see any reason to allow abusive pastors to hide their purpose in force-feeding it to their sheep. Their goal is to make their followers passive, submissive, and agreeable. Brainwashing them with a loaded forgiveness doctrine seems to help them reach that goal.

I liken the over-emphasis on forgiveness to formatting a hard drive. Click here (http://www.hotmail-central.com/images/forgive.jpg) to get an idea of what I am talking about. I created that little image as a way to paint a mind picture of how abusive pastors use the forgiveness doctrine as a way to get followers to overlook their abuse under the guise of "forgiveness".

I realize there is a good forgiveness, and I am in full support of it. It's the way that pastors use the doctrine of forgiveness as a tool to support abuse that I am opposed to. I am not opposed to forgiveness at all.

:cool:

[Savedbygrace]

I realize there is a good forgiveness, and I am in full support of it. It's the way that pastors use the doctrine of forgiveness as a tool to support abuse that I am opposed to. I am not opposed to forgiveness at all.

:cool:
I agree here. It actually does not sound like you are anti-forgiveness, just against church authority figures who use God's word for selfish gain.

Now, on the subject of forgiving those abusive church leaders...now that is a process that will take time and healing and the hand of God.

(((Voyager)))

Trish

[Hope 98]

I just want to agree with you here. Yes - I can see that you are not anti-forgiveness. I have had it crammed down my throat too - which is why it comes back up.

I see it as those who cram have the wrong definition of forgiveness - something like - "You have to ignore everything I do that is immoral or offensive, or you will go to hell, while I get to make sure that all of your inadequacies are sent up the flagpole..."

Forgiveness - as God forgives - REQUIRES the forgiven to acknowledge their wrong. And God doesn't spare us any embarrassment in the long run. Doesn't the Bible say that all things will be brought out into the light at judgement?

The feelings that you're expressing sound so familiar to me. I don't know if there is a shortcut through them. I wrestled much the same way for years.

[Voyager]

Forgiveness - as God forgives - REQUIRES the forgiven to acknowledge their wrong.

So true. Here's what Luke 17:3 tells us about that:

If any brother or sister sins against you, rebuke the offender; and if they repent, forgive them.

That's my benchmark. If they repent, I forgive them. If they don't, then it's my choice if I want to or not. I have no obligation to forgive someone who continues to wrong myself or others. Luke 17:3 cancels out the misinterpretation of Matthew 18:35 (forgive or ye shall not be forgiven), which was based on someone who would not forgive even after his offender repented.

As you know, I'm really not one to quote too much Scripture. But the idea that Christians should be doormats for abuse in the name of "forgiveness" needs to be disspelled.
:cool:

[Reg]

That's my benchmark. If they repent, I forgive them. If they don't, then it's my choice if I want to or not. I have no obligation to forgive someone who continues to wrong myself or others.

One question John. What if it's impossible to know because they are now dead? :confused:

[Voyager]

One question John. What if it's impossible to know because they are now dead? :confused:

Good question. That's a tough one. Should we forgive Hitler?

:confused:

[diva]

I remember years when I could not forgive. I was terribly frustrated with others who told me I needed to forgive because I just couldn't make myself forgive. Now I know that forgiveness is a gift I give myself.

[Voyager]

I remember years when I could not forgive. I was terribly frustrated with others who told me I needed to forgive because I just couldn't make myself forgive. Now I know that forgiveness is a gift I give myself.

It looks like you made a difficult topic seem very simple. You have to be able to forgive yourself before you can forgive others. Many of us have probably not yet forgiven ourselves for what happened to us.

Great post!

:cool:

[Hope 98]

Good question. That's a tough one. Should we forgive Hitler?

:confused:

I'd say that depends on whether or not you're letting his actions weigh you down in the present, in a personal way. Are you - or is anyone - waiting on some sort of repayment for his actions? Is that ever going to happen?

As long as I am able to protect myself from those who are still determined to injure me, I think I can say I've forgiven. A lack of repentance is a definite indication that someone is determined to injure me.

For soooooo long I connected forgiveness with continued vulnerability to abuse, I don't believe now that an unwillingness to actually forgive was ever actually an issue for me.

I think I'm getting repetitive.

[Reg]

It looks like you made a difficult topic seem very simple. You have to be able to forgive yourself before you can forgive others. Many of us have probably not yet forgiven ourselves for what happened to us.

Great post!

:cool:
John, Sometimes forgiving ourselves is the hardest thing to do.

Not to do forgive is a cancerous attitude. It is the ultimate frustration because it brings you repeated and more pain than you had in the first place. The only way to heal the pain that will not heal itself is to forgive the person who hurt you. You don't have to tell them but you do need to tell your heart. It requires a change of heart on your part. It has nothing to do with the other person. In the 12 Step program it has to do with the Amends step. It is a personal thing, not a expected requirement that the other person needs to accept. It is the medicine that you must take to heal yourself. The venom of unforgiveness will eventually take it's toll on the one who is infected by it. Get the venom out.

The barb on the end of the hook is the unforgiveness that keeps us attached to the other person. We need to get the hook out and let go so that they can no longer control our lives.

When you let go of the hook that attaches you to the wrongdoer and the wrong done to you by them you are free from their influence, pain and control over you. It is like you cut a malignant tumour out of you life. They don't even have to know. There will be people who have done us wrong that we will never see again. Yet we can still allow them to affect us negatively if we carry the burden of unforgiveness around. It's like a patch that affects the whole body.

We will remain in the prison cage of unforgiveness that keeps us a prisoner until we turn the key of Forgiveness in the lock on the door that opens it to give us back our freedom. When you set the prisoner free with that key you realize that the real prisoner was you indeed. True freedom from that cage can only be realized when your heart receives the balm of forgiveness God can give you. It is a part of His Divine Nature.

Again....forgiveness is about us and for us. It's not about the other person whether they repent or not. The only person we can change is ourselves. Although we can forgive, it doesn't mean we have to forget. In some cases that would be foolish. It's just the venom hate and anger we feel, we have to let go of. Forgiveness is simply a change of heart to let go of the anger and all the bitterness we may feel and be free of all the negative stuff. Jesus says we are to love our enemies. Now that's a kind of love only He can supply us with. We need to go to Him to ask for that kind of love in order to forgive some. Although they may never change, we can change our hearts and bitter attitude towards them in order to be free of them. They are not off the hook. God will repay. He knows all about it. That's His business, not ours.