word of faith organizations that send letters

[Dolphin]

I wonder if anyone here has ever been in a relationship by mail with a Word of Faith group. Peter Popoff, Jim Whittington, I think Marilyn Hickey, some other guy on tv.. they send out letters trying to encourage you in a personal and clairvoyant way and they want you to send them money for praying for you. I sent away for a free booklet with one those places and I ended up getting personal mail that I did not expect and expecting me to respond and send money. There was the type of stuff "we must do what God wants. God told me to have you send XX amount of money as a prove God offering". I felt so down and I wanted to believe that sending money could help, but then I would feel locked into that kind of thing. It doesn't seem really like a good thing to send money for a blessing. I just called up about a free book. I have wondered if anyone has actually been in a mail relationship with one of those WOF groups, and what happened. I tried writing out letters a few times to this one group that started sending me letters, but I could not send them. I would get upset and I would end up not writing anything. I wondered if anyone here has actually been involved with any of them. I thought that maybe its possible that it could be a very good thing. I got so confused thinking about it. I kept thinking that just because we want to hear that it would help to send money for blessing, it doesn't sound right. I remember being in a church where the evangelist would bless people according to the amount of money they were given and that seemed wrong to me. But here this is the same kind of thing and it is not so easy to just tune it out. They have not asked me to go to church or get involved anywhere in church they just want to pray for me. I wonder what you all think. I do think that there are people that have legimate gifts and that there are people that do want to pray for and help others a nd that some of these people are christian and also sincere in that motive, but then I think that technically I do not know who I would be writing to because I think that there are really workers at these places and it is not the lead WOF person in charge. I don't want to be deluded but then risks are good sometimes. But then I would feel really dumb and really hurt if it turned out to somehow hurt me. I am already hurt. I wasn't planning to write this here but I thought that it would be good thing to see what you think.

[OldEnt]

A long, long time ago there was a church that sold "blessings". The word they used was indulgences... One of their pastors said, Hey! This is not right! Let's talk about this.... Instad of talking about it, that church excomunicated the pastor... He burned the excomunication announcement and kept on telling people they didn't have to pay for blessings...

These so called "Word of Faith" people sound a lot like that old church.... Same old scam in different clothes.... save you money... You don't need their indulgences.... Jesus paid it all.....

In His freedom.

Old Ent

PS: The pastor who was excommunicated so long ago went by the name of Martin Luther...

[Reg]

I wonder if anyone here has ever been in a relationship by mail with a Word of Faith group. Peter Popoff, Jim Whittington, I think Marilyn Hickey, some other guy on tv..
Dolphin,

This is part of an email I wrote someone who also was interested in the WOF movement and sent me some info about them..

------

If you read carefully the link to CRI you will read in the first line,
" The major tenets of the Word of Faith movement betray the fact that it is in opposition to mainstream, evangelical Christianity." http://www.equip.org/free/RC010.htm

The opening paragraph is very clear about that.

An aberrational theology affirms essential orthodox Christianity, but it adds teachings that undermine the profession of true orthodoxy. A heretical theology, on the other hand, outright denies essential doctrines of Christianity, and groups that adhere to a heretical teaching are considered to be cults. Some of the best-known American television evangelists subscribe either in whole or in part to the unbiblical teaching known as "positive confession," the "faith" teaching, or the "prosperity" message. Its chief representatives include Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin, Fred Price, Paul and Jan Crouch, John Avanzini, Benny Hinn, and Marilyn Hickey. In the past, CRI has attempted to meet with some of the people listed above to dialogue with them concerning their false teachings; however, most of them have refused.

So beware of anything they teach. Hopefully, I have enlightened you. After being a member of a very healthy church BBC for the last 7 years, I now know what is healthy and what is not. Check out our website http://www.bramaleabaptist.org/ to give you an idea of what a healthy church looks like. You can even listen to some of the recent sermon by our Senior Pastor Ian Campbell. http://www.bramaleabaptist.org/about/audio.php

Once you see the real thing then it is easier to identify a counterfeit. That's how they identify counterfeit money. They now exactly what the real bills look like. It's the same with churches and ministries.

They are not a healthy group. There is a plethora of good Christian articles and books available that I have read and many more to read. I value my time and I am only concerned in reading those who I consider Healthy. The Copelands and the Word of Faith ministries are not healthy.

The opening line that I've highlighted above should give you a clue to that.

Reg

[Jerry]

Sounds like "WOBS" to me."Yes God wants you to send me 100 dollars,,,,you will have peace and secure salvation,,,,,,,,and I will have BIG BUCKS!!!!! It's easy to tell when those people are lieing kid,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Their lips move!!! ;)
Love Jerry

[Doug64]

Hi:


Here are two more name to add to Reg's list....Joyce Meyer and Creflo Dollar.
Joyce doesn't outwardly appear to be associated but it shows up if you watch the program long enough. We even attended one of her meetings and received "member" letters and I think even sent money a time or two before we caught on.
Like most things, they have some good points but also have (in my opinion,) some error.

Doug :cool:

[Dolphin]

Thanks guys for your support in this. I felt guilty even talking about it at the time. I have recieved 3 letters I have not responded to. And I doubt I will get anymore sent to me due to lack of recipocal letters. I just cannot do this though. Old Ent, Doug, Jerry, Reg, thanks.

Reg, I agree with your general stance but I believe in the supernatural though and I have had proof of various things firsthand, not by word of mouth, but supernatual is often abused today in the church. Just like the psychics that you pay for a word and later get locked into paying for blessings which are called spells, this seems no different. I cannot open up to someone I dont' know either. It is rare I talk to people online by email even. I have to know them face to face first, or its a light subject, or I respect them for some deeper reason. I cannot get into a mail relationship either with someone I really don't know. The things that were touched on clairvoyantly, well a few were not quite correct either. I fear to correct them too. Just who am I talking to? I really don't know.

Doug, Joyce and Creflo are the same type of thinking. I don't know if they have these "mail relationships" though. I know peter popoff does. Joyce rubs me the wrong way. Did she sent you clairovoyant member letters?

Old Ent. It's just like that situation. Paying for blessings. It doesn't sound right.

Jerry, heeheehee. I don't feel real comfortable with them, and don't have their line of thinking so I should know that anything that said is suspect.

[Satscout]

Another group to be suspicious of is "St. Matthew's Churches" and their "Biblical Seed Faith Harvest Plan".... where you send them money and God sends you blessings... and OF COURSE if you ever actually read the fine print they ALWAYS say blessings are God's domain and not theirs but ... send money anyway... :rolleyes:

*sigh* I have more respect for an organization or preacher who encourages fiscal responsibility within the local church setting before sending all available cash to them.

Sharon

[Kerrin]

Hi:


Here are two more name to add to Reg's list....Joyce Meyer and Creflo Dollar.
Joyce doesn't outwardly appear to be associated but it shows up if you watch the program long enough. We even attended one of her meetings and received "member" letters and I think even sent money a time or two before we caught on.
Like most things, they have some good points but also have (in my opinion,) some error.

Doug :cool:
Don't you think it's bit like sifting wheat? The enemy uses the media so successsfully to his advantage, why shouldn't God?
I happen to admire Joyce,(and everyone is entitled to their opinion), she, herself was abused in a church. I have been following her closely for about 8 years, and I think she is a fairly open book. I,personally don't find her overtly "pushy' in the money/blessing thing.
Just the other day she was discouraging people from wanting her to sign her books or their bibles, stating the obvious; her signing them is not going to fulfill God's plan for them or make it "magically" work better.
However, I am known to be gullible, so correct me by all means. ;)
Kerrin

[Doug64]

Hi Kerrin:


I think whatever provides teaching and encouragement is fine. Joyce has a lot of good substance in her teaching. I think she is helping a lot of people. I'm just not especially interested in watching her program much knowing the group she is associated with and some of those teachings. It is a type of the wheat/chaff sifting process.

Dolphin:

Joyce did not send us clairvoyant letters that I can recall. She just asked for (monetary) support as nearly all of them do.
Doug :cool:

[Kerrin]

Hi Kerrin:


. I'm just not especially interested in watching her program much knowing the group she is associated with and some of those teachings. It is a type of the wheat/chaff sifting process.

Dolphin:

Joyce did not send us clairvoyant letters that I can recall. She just asked for (monetary) support as nearly all of them do.
Doug :cool:

Thanks for your reply, If I may ask what "group" or church is she actually associated with?
Kerrin :)

[The Prairie Tortoise]

Hello Dolphin :)

Here's my story (or part of it).

I moved house 2 years ago and am still getting mail re-directed to me from a set-up in London called "KICC" - the head honcho of this is a certain "pastor" Matthew Ashimolowo.

Normally with junk mail I just 'return to sender'. But KICC don't put a return address on the envelope. So I phoned in May of this year and spoke to someone called Yvonne, asking her to remove me and my husband (we get 2 lots of everything) from the mailing list. She told me the person who did the database was away but she'd pass the message on.

Anyway, I carried on getting the mail ("Winning with Jesus", "How to be an Overcomer", "The Victorious Life" etc - all flogging books/conferences or just spiritually blackmailing you into sending cheques).

So this morning I phoned again. I spoke to a woman called Dawn and told her I'd like me and my husband's details removed from their database. As soon as I said that, her tone of voice became even more hostile (it wasn't too friendly to begin with).

"Hold," she said

I waited.

After quite a while she came back on the line and said "What's your surname and address". I told her. She didn't double check on any spellings, so I was sure she hadn't written it down right (our surame is unusual). She told me she would "pass it on" to the relevant department as the database person was away.

At this point I got a sense of déjà vu. I said, "Can I speak to someone else in the database department, please"

She said, "No you can't speak to the department."

I said, "But this is the second time I've phoned - I phoned in May and I'm still getting mail from you."

She replied huffily, "So there's been a delay."

I said, "What, since May?"

She huffed and puffed at the end of the line. I said, "So... that's your apology, is it?"

She said, "Why do you think I need to apologise to you?"

I said, "You represent KICC"

She said, "I'm not apologising to you. Goodbye."

And put the phone down.

This has all just happened and I'm still shaking.

I've dealt with many secular organisations, as you do, and they always, always, apologise for any mistakes made by organisation, even though it's not directly their fault, because they represent the organisation. I've had to do this at work myself many times.

"By their fruit you shall know them" - don't have anything to do with these Word of Faith characters - they are charlatans. I'm still recovering from years of being duped by them, and it's not easy.

I started to get this junk mail because one summer a while ago I went to a KICC conference. I'll just pass on this bit of info - at the conference the star speaker was a certain 'Bishop' Gilbert Deya - and you can read more about this character here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4006945.stm

[Hope 98]

Thanks for your reply, If I may ask what "group" or church is she actually associated with?
Kerrin

Kerrin - I believe that Joyce is or was connected with "Word of Faith". The focus of her ministry is so much on other things that I find it easy to ignore this aspect of her teaching.

I also know people who have been so hurt by "God will bless you if you give me money and curse you if you don't" kind of teaching that they have a hard time hearing anything else from Joyce. This is very understandable.

I watched her shows, listened to her tapes, and supported her financially for a about 2-3 years. I stopped because I seemed to be getting into too many arguments over her and I decided that it wasn't worth it. I also felt like I had heard most of what she had to say at least twice.

In my book, she delivers a message that many people need to hear in a way that they can understand it. As most twelve-step programs like to remind you, take what works and leave the rest.

[Kerrin]

;) Thanks Hope,
I think in the early days ,as a"baby" christian, Joyces teaching was easy and palliatable to those of us unfamiliar with a "Scary" God who you would never be able to please. (She has helped me a lot Though).
Thankyou for helping me to put some balance back in my life at the moment. Especially as I don't have a church to go to. I don't trust any of them, am scared of getting hurt again and am just outright confused, I so MISS the praise, worship and fellowship.
I guess that's why I'm here when I should be in bed!
Still confused :confused:
Love you
Kerrin

[Dolphin]

Prairie, I also get other junk mail too by other church ministries! It is difficult to get off the lists. I have gone through the same thing. I keep getting mail by Joel Osteen ministries for one. The last two letters they sent said on the front of the envelop..."A special gift for you because we care" and another said something similar. I open them up and they want me to send them money as a donation for their new book and they have down 15, 20, 25 or other, for the boxes to check. How is this a gift to me? And starting at 15 dollars too? They have done this now in promoting two different books this way in a space of a month. The people on the religious phones can be rude. I don't watch Osteen anymore after what he said a few weeks ago on something that I found upsetting. "Men need two things from women in a marriage 1)sex alot 2)for you to look like a "hot mama". I was shocked. What about those women who are older and are not looking very attractive or are struggling with weight issues? Why is it a crime for the special victims units when a man forces himself on a woman and causes her to have a breakdown but it is more imporant for a man to have pleasure in marriage than for a woman to avoid pain when she is not ready? I don't know why. But I don't go to church anymore. I don't believe that any fair or loving God would allow half of his creation to be abused by the other half in a marriage situation. It is a priviledge and not a right for any man to have sex with his wife. No one should be pushed around. Joel Osteen did say that and it was his whole sermon. He had people laughing at the HOt Mama comment. "I bet you never heard a preacher talk that way before. You men owe me one you know hahahahaha" I think he is bizarre or something now. I don't want any books from his organization.

[Dolphin]

Kerrin, Joyce is alot like alot of preachers, I agree. There are alot of things that you can get from them but some trains of thought they have can be taken too far. I don't watch them anymore but I pray to God everyday.

[Patti]

Another group to be suspicious of is "St. Matthew's Churches" and their "Biblical Seed Faith Harvest Plan".... where you send them money and God sends you blessings... and OF COURSE if you ever actually read the fine print they ALWAYS say blessings are God's domain and not theirs but ... send money anyway... :rolleyes:

*sigh* I have more respect for an organization or preacher who encourages fiscal responsibility within the local church setting before sending all available cash to them.

Sharon

St. Matthew's is a fraudulent organization. A Google will turn up the facts on it and it's founder.

Here's one for the novice charlatan seeker:

http://www.trinityfi.org/press/tulsaworld01.html

Btw, new here, so "HI".

[jane]

Believe it or not I don't know most of the people that you are speaking of.


But I had one experience with a follower of Kenneth Copeland or Haggin. His name was Jessie Rich. I was a single mother at the time, my fellow christian woman friends told me I just had to go with them to meet this Jessie Rich.

OK, he rented a room in a hotel. He walked into the room. Preached a weird message. Had everyone put their chairs in circle. Had everyone get on their knees as if to pray by leaning on the chair. He prayed over everyone, collecting money. The girl who brought me put a $10 in the dish for me, so that God would bless me a hundred fold and not her.

When it was over, I had questions. He was long gone. No questions allowed. Books, videos and everything on the table to buy. . .that is where I saw the Copeland and Haggin materials.

The girl who brought me gave away everything that she owned, to bless others to be blessed. Her wedding dress, her dishes, everything. Her husband was not saved so she was giving everything to get him saved or something.

The last I heard from her she was picked up by police walking on a busy street, barefoot with her children, barefoot in the winter. I heard she was committed. . . .lost contact with her after that.


I always wondered what ever happened to her. . .

and to Jessie Rich too, he scared the heck out of me, I never went back.

About Joyce Meyers. I liked her teaching and started watching it. It frustrates the HECK out of me that just when I get listening good to a topic the show is interrupted with her sales pitch. If I want to hear the end I got to send her a check. If it is soooooooooo crucial to God that I have this information (as the sales pitch goes) why don't they just give it to us. Jesus did. All the important information, it was free. Where is their faith for their provisions? If they trusted God more maybe they would not have to ask us to support them.


Just my opinion, take it or throw it away.

Jane

[Jerry]

You see Jane,,,,it's not about God,,,,It's not about Jesus,,,,It's not about blessings,,,,it's not about getting the Word out,,,,it's not about Salvation,,,,,it's about the ;) ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,you guessed it!!!!!! :D
Love Jerry

[Doug64]

I'm not aware that Joyce ever stated an affiliation while we were watching her program, but those who follow B. Hinn, K. Copeland, et al, place her with them.

She does have good points, and as someone mentioned previously, "take what works and leave the rest." If I run across her program while channel surfing, I often watch.

Good points about the pitch for money. I love it when people think. Something we didn't do when in the abusive groups.

Doug

[Beautiful_Dreamer]

i have not been involved with a WOF group by mail but I have been involved with one with the same beliefs in person...I will say to you, run do not walk. their prosperity gospel is pure heresy and many of them care more about whether or not you follow their beliefs than your own well-being. This has been my experience and it might not be anyone elses but I really do not wish to see anyone else hurt.

[Janice]

I wrote Joyce Meyers several years ago. My church loves her teachings and yes, I've been to one of her seminars.
The letter I wrote was from her website and fell into the "prayer request" catagory. No need for me to go into detail about what the request was but, they DID respond back saying that they would prayer for my request and gave me specific information which proved to me that someone in their organization actually DID read it.
This is why I'm confused about this whoe thing! Maybe I should stop reading about things like this? It's throwing alot of doubts, frears, and apprehensions my way. Not a good feeling. :(
I don't know who to trust anymore. (again/still) *sigh*

[Kerrin]

I wrote Joyce Meyers several years ago. My church loves her teachings and yes, I've been to one of her seminars.
The letter I wrote was from her website and fell into the "prayer request" catagory. No need for me to go into detail about what the request was but, they DID respond back saying that they would prayer for my request and gave me specific information which proved to me that someone in their organization actually DID read it.
This is why I'm confused about this whoe thing! Maybe I should stop reading about things like this? It's throwing alot of doubts, frears, and apprehensions my way. Not a good feeling. :(
I don't know who to trust anymore. (again/still) *sigh*


I was too scared to say I'd done the same thing Janice, :o
The "stuff" I got back showed someone had actually read my request and responded with a "gift" but no request by them for Money.
I still reserve "judgement" on Joyce.
They still send me stuff and don't ask for money so.............? :confused:
Kerrin

[jane]

Janice and Kerrin,

I have found that if something works for me, I use it.

If a ministry is helping and not hurting why not read their stuff? I wouldn't stop just because others have an opposing opinion. I may not like television ministry but my mother feels safer watching church on t.v. than going to a church.

I just know that when I hear requests for money I hang on to my wallet. I can't discern if the request is real or a manipulation.

That doesn't mean I have stopped giving. There is a local food pantry that takes food (we actually see them hand the food out to the public). There is a local woman's center that gives young mothers clothes, pampers, food, etc. if they opt to not have an abortion. There are people we know who need a meal once in a while or a bag of groceries. We try to do things quietly so as to not shame them or do it for personal glory.


I guess I am just trying to encourage you to take what works for you and throw away what doesn't.


Jane

[pblondeau46]

Here is a site that can tell you what Word Faith Teaching is: It's an eyeopener.

http://www.banner.org.uk/wof/moreno1.html

[pblondeau46]

actually this is a better article regarding wof teaching.


http://www.banner.org.uk/wof/Word%20of%20Faith.pdf