Feeling really sad

[MommyKane]

We went to our "home" church this weekend for the first time in about 4 weeks. I want to make the transition and find a new church slowly, to make it easier on our kids, and theoretically, us too. But it was so hard to be there! There are so many good things going on, and at least on the front end, the church seems to be giving the same message it always has - that authenticity is valued and the church needs to be a safe place to work through issues. But in practice over the several months, actions of staff and some decisions made have been completely contradictory to the supposed "values and vision" of the church as it has been presented from the pulpit and other mediums, which has led to us feeling very wounded and confused. It doesn't make sense at all. But, our attempts to contact other church staff and pastors have gone completely unresponded to thus far. On the surface, there seem to be good reasons for this, but given the past 6 months of our experience, it's hard not to allow the mind to fill in the blanks when two follow-up calls in the span of a week have gone unresponded to. I feel like I am on a roller coaster. One minute, I feel a little twinge of hope, the next, I feel angry, the next, intensely sad. I'm tired. Meanwhile, I have several women who used to be a part of the group that I led at my church, or have contacted me since the group got, for all intents and purposes, forced out of the church, who are bleeding emotionally from their own wounds that they needed this group for, looking to me for support and direction, when I have no clue. It's all so overwhelming. I know God will make good of this situation. He always does. But I'm really having a hard time trusting that and keeping the proverbial chin up right now. I'm trying to take care of myself, do what little I feel I can do healthily for these other women, and leave the rest up to God. This whole thing just really stinks.

[Voyager]

I have several women who used to be a part of the group that I led at my church, or have contacted me since the group got, for all intents and purposes, forced out of the church, who are bleeding emotionally from their own wounds that they needed this group for, looking to me for support and direction, when I have no clue.

Why were they forced out of the church? Did they steal some church property, or assault someone?

:confused:

[MommyKane]

No. Not at all. We were eliminated because we are (or rather, were) an ongoing recovery group for women married to sexually addicted spouses, with the purpose of rediscovering our identity and Christ, learning to set boundaries, and get to a place where we could make decisions, which in our philosopy, takes time. The department that took over responsibility for the "support" groups this year does not believe that this is necessary. In their view, a 12 week class is sufficient, at which time, in their view, women should then be "fixed". They don't seem to understand that there's an element of addiction involved, and that most women need ongoing support of others who have been there. We are very deliberate to use tools to keep us focused on growth, not on our husband's issues, and to recognize our codependencies and learn new patterns of behavior to focus on our own stuff, and to learn how to make rational, rather than reactional decisions. The goal of the group is to reintroduce women to the person God created them to be, and help them learn to walk as that woman instead of the codependent to a sex addict, whether the marriage survives or not. The church is discounting the devistation this issue causes in women. They recently cancelled the one element of the group that fits with this new model because there weren't enough people, in their mind, signed up for it to warrent use of a room and a few chairs. It didn't matter that the women who did sign up were bleeding to death emotionally, or that the only reason there weren't "enough" people signed up is because when they called the church to sign up, they were told no such group existed.

[Reg]

........We were eliminated because we are (or rather, were) an ongoing recovery group for women married to sexually addicted spouses, with the purpose of rediscovering our identity and Christ, learning to set boundaries, and get to a place where we could make decisions, which in our philosopy, takes time.............. They don't seem to understand that there's an element of addiction involved, and that most women need ongoing support of others who have been there.............The goal of the group is to reintroduce women to the person God created them to be, and help them learn to walk as that woman instead of the codependent to a sex addict, whether the marriage survives or not. The church is discounting the devastation this issue causes in women........... .

This is very sad. Obviously they don't understand and have never heard of Celebrate Recovery. They should get their head out of the sand and look around. CR was started in the early 90's by John Baker at Saddleback Community Church. http://www.celebraterecovery.com/index.asp

President Bush lauds church program at White House-sponsored event.

Mar 11, 2004 By Tobin Perry, John Baker LOS ANGELES (BP)--President George W. Bush praised Saddleback Church's Celebrate Recovery program in early March as a ministry that does what government cannot -- change hearts.

If you look at the small groups section on our website, you will notice we have a group for Codependency/Love Addiction for Women. http://www.bramaleabaptist.org/cr/

CR runs 52 weeks a year every Friday night. We recognize the continuous support needed in many areas of life where an addiction is a problem. Maybe you should refer those at your church to CR's website so they can learn more.

[MommyKane]

Thanks, Reg. Actually, they do know about Celebrate Recovery, but right now, "Recovery" is considered a bad word around there. They preffer the more spiritualized term, "transformation", which if they'd really look at it, is just a semantical difference. The confusing thing is that everywhere else in the church - every other department - seems to support the idea of ongoing supportive relationships. It's preached from the pulpit. Our senior pastor is one of the co-authors of a well-known book on recognizing spiritual abuse. But the area that recently took over responsibility for the support groups does not seem to recognize this need. Their philosophy is that 12 weeks is sufficient, and if a person is really serious about wanting help, it will be. And, only 10 people can go through at a time. (if there's enough people calling to actually hold the class, but no one has ever told me, who was to have facilitated the group, what this mysterious minimum number was ...) The rest are left on a waiting list until there's an opening. This, in the past when there was a waiting list for the group, led to women being on a waiting list for years before finally getting help. It doesn't make any sense to me. But, if you want to play tennis, go sailing, or learn to knit, you're welcome to meet at the church year round! There's no waiting lists for that! Or cancellations! I'm all for Christians connecting with others with similar interests, and a church facilitating that - but when it is pushing out the groups that are there to help people walk through painful situations, I feel it is wrong.

Obviously, everything I've written is simply from my perspective, and I'm sure the powers that be have their own view of their position.

[Kerrin]

Our church did this very same thing! We had a great womens group for single hurting mum's, most of us survivors of violent abuse; some christian, some "not Yet". As our new pastor came in about 8 years ago the group is gone, the women have all dropped away, many turning away from God. We were told by the church leadership we were a damaging group "feeding" off one another's hurts! I think it was more we were a damaged group "sharing" one another's hurts and resources.
Now the only "proper" way for any support or healing in our church is to go on a waiting list to attend healing ministry led by the Holy Spirit with trained counsellors.
I wanted desperately to do this course, was considered unsuitable due to my "past" hurts!!!!???? So, it is only the hand -picked who do the course, and those who really need the help have conveniently GONE. Consequently there is no need for such a support group.)
I wanted to start up a drop in coffee morning for any-one to chat, whatever. I said I would do the work, just wanted it to be non-threatening and supportive. By the time it went through the "approval" process, surprise!! I was not suitable or "trained" and no-one else had the heart for it anyway.
Why do churches feel the need to control how people will progress through their own healing? Control is one of the things these women are trying to escape.
Confused, Kerrin.

[Reg]

Why do churches feel the need to control how people will progress through their own healing? Control is one of the things these women are trying to escape. Confused, Kerrin.

I think you nailed it here Kerrin. As MommyKane mentioned, "Their philosophy is that 12 weeks is sufficient, and if a person is really serious about wanting help, it will be. And, only 10 people can go through at a time." is typical of wanting to Control. People who are in Spiritual Trauma need immediate help. What are they afraid of? :confused:

Imagine someone who is taken into an emergency department after a serious accident and told to wait for an inordinant amount of time. Trauma victims need immediate help. Waiting without proper help does not aid in ones healing.

[Savedbygrace]

Our church did this very same thing! We had a great womens group for single hurting mum's, most of us survivors of violent abuse; some christian, some "not Yet". As our new pastor came in about 8 years ago the group is gone, the women have all dropped away, many turning away from God. We were told by the church leadership we were a damaging group "feeding" off one another's hurts! I think it was more we were a damaged group "sharing" one another's hurts and resources.
Now the only "proper" way for any support or healing in our church is to go on a waiting list to attend healing ministry led by the Holy Spirit with trained counsellors.
I wanted desperately to do this course, was considered unsuitable due to my "past" hurts!!!!???? So, it is only the hand -picked who do the course, and those who really need the help have conveniently GONE. Consequently there is no need for such a support group.)
I wanted to start up a drop in coffee morning for any-one to chat, whatever. I said I would do the work, just wanted it to be non-threatening and supportive. By the time it went through the "approval" process, surprise!! I was not suitable or "trained" and no-one else had the heart for it anyway.
Why do churches feel the need to control how people will progress through their own healing? Control is one of the things these women are trying to escape.
Confused, Kerrin.Kerrin,

I hear you sister. At my old church, when I was ready to leave because there was no support for hurting people. I was begged to stay, and told I could start a women's small group to offer each other support. It started with the pastors wife sitting in the back of the room, coming in and out of the meeting. She rarely contributed, but often made mental notes of the things shared. Then it was comments about the type of people in this room. One had a severe sexual addiction and it was thought that her sharing was inappropriate, and then it was that we were making the church look bad. Well, every thrird week or so, the pastor would have some other thing going on conveniently at the same time as our group (we could not change the time, it was the only time the church would provide childcare). Well, first it was a month of time we were required to listen to the teens (the pastors kids and friends) play praise and worship music in the sanctuary. Next was the pastors discipleship class that he said "all leaders" needed to attend. The morning of our meeting, he announced in the morning service that "if you were any kind of Christian you would be in the discipleship training." The night of the meeting, it was chaos, and all of these hurting women were looking to me to tell them which meeting to go to. When everyone decided to be obedient to the pastor, I was left with one woman who had just started coming to church who did not want to go in the pastors class. She actually left when she saw what had happened to our support group. That was the night I lost it. Although I told the PW that I did not want to discuss at the time why I was so upset, she literally chased me down to my car in the lot in front of my kids insisting that I tell her what was wrong. So I told her. I gave her quite an earful. She said something like "how dare you make such a big deal about this. Look at the blessing of all these people coming to the discipleship class, and you have to go and ruin it" Then the stalked me for about 2 months, used my children to guilt me, had several people call and question how i could leave. They told me I was disobeying God to leave. They told me that I would just find the same problems any where I would go, that I just needed to "love my imperfect church" I was actually compared to Jonah, running away from the "Ninaveh" I had been told to go to. I agreed, I was like Jonah, but that church was my Tarshish, and The whale had just "spit me out" in my Ninevah! (For over a year I had been drawn to my current church)

Long story, and there is so much more, like the way I was avoided after my husbands suicide. I am so glad I am in a more authentic church, where the leadership understands hurting people, where recovery is important, where you are never asked to be anything other than who you are.

There are good ones out there. I pray you and mommykane and the others here may someday find a place of support and healing (church or other)

In his love,

Trish

[MommyKane]

Exactly!! But one of the problems here, is that the people in charge of the support groups think that I am the one trying to be controlling. This is because they cannot seem to see past the fact that I am on the board of a ministry external to the church, and am helping to develop curriculum for this type of a group to be used at other churches/outlets/wherever. They assume that the reason I want the group to be run the way it's been run the past few years is because I want to further my own adgenda. They refuse to hear that the group has been run as an ongoing group with Biblical teaching for 3 years because that is what was needed and what was most effective and helpful for people. The opportunity to participate in curriculum development did not present itself until this spring, after the transition from an overseer who "gets" the concept of recovery to the new overseers. They are ignoring 3 years of results and feedback from group members, past and present, brave enough to step forward and tell them what the group means to them and how it has helped them - because they think I'm in it for money or whatever. They refuse to believe that the only reason I'm involved in this curriculum development is because my own life has been torn apart by this, and I have a desire to help others survive it - that's why I took on facilitating the group 3 1/2 years ago. The curriculum stuff came about purely by accident, not by my design, just a few months ago - long after the group format had been established. I can understand their point of view - they don't know me well enough to know what my motives are. But they haven't really tried to get to know me, either. They simply seem to see my involvement in this external organization, and the curriculum being developed, as evidence of an alterior motive. Of course they have not come right out and said that, but there's been enough reference to me just being upset that I didn't "get my way", coupled with the fact that every time I have given them documentation on specifically how the group fits the church's vision/values statement, or provided them with drafts of curriculum pieces that addressed their concerns about codependency on the group and staying stuck in pain - they've simply handed them back to me without bothering to read them, and every time I have tried to suggest a compromise, they have said a flat "No" ... it makes me wonder.

Obviously, you guys really don't know me either, so maybe this whole thing hits you the same way it does my church. All I can say is I honestly don't care if I ever see a penny from this external project. I now see it as a mistake to even bring it up to them, because it seems to have done more harm than good, since now these women have nowhere to go for the time being, until my co-facilitator and I can find another place to meet and get organized. I only did so because I'd been told that they were ousting groups that didn't have a curriculum.

Anyway, I appreciate the feedback and support - knowing that I'm not alone goes a long way. I still feel very sad and angry and confused about it all, but whatever happens, I know that I am loved by God. Thanks.

[Florence]

MommyKane,
So much of your post sounds familiar to me - I always thought that the fact that I was a professor at a Bible college teaching pastoral ministries majors about worship leading, team building, etc., and actually leading worship and supervising, mentoring, training, and launching worship ministry teams would have cause folks to respect and value my involvement and input. Quite the contrary. I really don't want to sound pompous, but I think for the full-time music guy my church had at the time, I was a tremendous threat. And even when I was involved in leading the women's ministry worship team (the music guy being a man wasn't involved, of course) I found that there were a couple of other (wealthy) women who seemed intent on finding fault in every thing I did, word I said, etc. Kind of like that childish behavior where people try to make themselves look good by making other people look bad. And if they are the people with the power and position, you will never be able to convince them of anything. Underneath it all, they really want you out of the way because you might actually do something that is better than what they are able to do.

Cynical, I know . . .
Florence

[Doug64]

Hi mommykane :


Would it be possible to hold meetings in someone's home? Another possibility would be a community center where meetings could be held for free or for a minimal amount of rent.

I'm always amazed at how groups can find reasons around something they don't want to deal with when there is an obvious need for it.

It's another case where you are supposed to get over something in a set amount of time.
Such expectations are not based in real life situations.

Doug :cool:

[MommyKane]

I plan to start the 12-week portion - a class based on an excellent workbook, in my home right after the holidays. (This was supposed to be held at the church starting a month ago, but was cancelled by the head of the support groups) That will buy us time to find a different place to meet. In the meantime, we're trying to at least get together every other week for coffee and support. Most of the women in the group, including me, have young children at home, so hosting a group of this nature, with curious little ears to hear, would just not work. Thankfully, my husband has offered to take our kids out on Saturday mornings while the class meets. (I'm so thankful he's in solid recovery!!) I've also got leads on several other churches that are interested in starting a group, but just want to make sure all bridges at my church are crossed first - the men's group still meets there, and since many of the women have spouses in that group, it would be convenient to be able to meet there again. This is one of the many things that doesn't make sense - - the men's group has been able to find a home in another department of the church and keep meeting there - year round, but so far no go for the women. The church is starting another reorganization in December, which could change everything and the group could end up back under the person who "gets it", but I'm not letting myself get my hopes up about it. My priority isn't to keep the group at my current church, but to do whatever is right for my own recovery's sake, and also for the women who are in such need of this group. This group quite litterally saved my life, and many others have benefitted from it, too. It's just such a shame that there are people out there who frame things in their neat little packages and refuse to see that it doesn't work for everyone. They do more harm than good when they try to fit people into their cookie-cutter world. We women already fight feeling defective when we're dealing with this particular issue - to not be fixed after a 12-week class, when that is the expectation that is being set by this new mandate, only reinforces that feeling.

Anyway, thanks for your suggestions, support, and prayers. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.