My Story

[hoipoloi]

:eek:

Two years ago, my wife and I told the vicar (a good man new to the profession and who has remained good and a person of integrity) that there was a need for a traditional service in our increasingly modern church services. He told us to get a meeting together and he would attend.

We did, he did, and an early Sunday traditional church service was started. This has grown to be successful enough to fulfill the need.


However, powerful people who wanted the modern services have never forgiven me.

The church is run by the Mother's Union who have put their hen-pecked husbands into positions of influence where they themselves can control the levers of power. And so, my persecutors turned out to be: two Readers of the Pulpit; a bitter retired vicar and his control-freak wife (who herself was fast-tracked to be the church's curate -- MU networks?); the verger; and the people they manipulated.

It was only later that I realised that lies had been told about me in the gossip groups, and these lies were believed because the liars were the preachers.

I was made a pariah -- you can always tell from people's reactions.

One horrendous sermon was preached against me (without names but, looking back, everyone knew who they meant -- the well had already been poisoned). In this sermon, the words "spite" and "malice" were spit out.

I could do nothing about this and yet, since my wife enjoys going to this church, I carried on quietly and with low profile. I greeted my persecutors with a smile and was returned with a grunt. When I got fed up of this, they gossipped that I was "making a point". Meanwhile, sermons were very strong on repentence (do as I say .....).

In despair, I put my experiences on the web site Ship-of-Fools and was told about Spiritual Abuse and this Forum.

Then I knew I was not alone. My grateful thanks for all who put their experiences here -- God Be Praised!

I have told the vicar about my situation, under a strict understanding of confidentiality (I said that the "team" was the problem and certainly NOT the solution). I also wrote a general essay on Spiritual Abuse and gave it to him.

The situation is on-going, but at least someone in the diocese knows the truth of it. But I know that appealing to the Bishop will be a waste of time -- they all stick together.


I've found that misuse of pulpit sermons and the terrible power of lying gossip, which you cannot confronted, are the most venal techniques used.

But I will not be hounded out!

:)

[Anna Marta]

Dear Friend,

My heart aches for you. It is so good that God led you to this sight. No, you are far from being alone in your experience. I know from my own experience in having found this forum that that knowledge alone can provide salve for the wounds.

Share your story as you feel able. We care about you and can pray specifically for your situation. May God hold your heart safe from a bitter root and the Holy Spirit guide you in every decision you need to make.

Shalom,
Anna Marta
(who never belonged to a mother union :mad:)

[hoipoloi]

Many thanks, Anna Marta, for your support.

I am not so angry nowadays a I was at the beginning, but one thing that gets me going is the thing about secrecy.

It reminds me of the novel "Fight Club" and its rules:

1 The first rule of Fight Club is you do NOT talk about Fight Club.

2 The second rule of Fight Club is you do NOT talk about Fight Club.

3 ....



Well, I can and do talk now about SA!

And I take every sensible opportunity to disseminate information about spiritualabuse.com -- abused people should realise that it is NOT their fault.

Dear me -- I think that some of my anger is showing again!

;)

[Anna Marta]

It sure is and let it all hang out! We have the broadest shoulders in the world around here.

God is teaching, healing and leading all of us at His own pace. This is a good place to learn how to be able to appropriately handle anger and express it and forgive it too. I have learned how to express things here that I kept quiet about earlier. It is a good place to practice setting and holding others to boundaries.

Regardless of how we express ourselves clumsily or sometime more aggressively than we wish we had, we are ALL people of good will and want everyone to feel as safe as possible. I have not met anyone here who is too proud to ask forgiveness and that speaks well of us all.

Sometimes, Hoipoloi - we need understanding and forgiveness the most when we deserve it the least. That, IMHO, is what the sanctification process (becoming more like Christ) is all about for each other.

I respect you.

Anna Marta

[SpinningHead]

UGH! When people try to control how other people worship God, it's never a good thing! :mad:

(((Hoipoloi)))

[hornblower]

I love your name hoi poloi I cant spell it either but I knew what you meant right away lol.
Im one of these that probably prefer the modern services but then the way I see it we should all be together and I dont want anyone shut out for any reason at all so..............what would I do about all of this??????? I would have church forever and forever so everybody could have their own thing happening!

I have some reservations about this thinking that sermons are written or spoken about me thing..........
Believe me hoi Im not disbelieving you..........Ive seen a whole lot of trash coming down so I can well imagine such a thing happening but heres the thing, once those little 'bugs' get in our ears they are awfully hard to get out and to deal with. They completely take our peace dont they?

They happen to me when I come here even?
So and so is talking about me behind my back and on and on and on it goes. Basically for me it comes down to the fact that some part of me feels very unloved and so I care deeply what other people are thinking about me.........not a good thing at all to try to live with. What I need to be concentrating on is God loves me thats all I should need at any time ever! But alas we are all human arent we?

Its good that you can go to this guy that you seem to like and you feel you can talk to him about whats going on. Its a shame your wife wants to keep on going there when you are feeling lousy about it. Why cant we control them? Those spouses ruin everything we want to do????????

Its hard for me to get on a bandwagon about traditions. Any kind of a tradition at all is not ok with me because if we start one somebody else is getting hurt by it. Ive seen whole wonderful churches go straight to you know where just because of the piano being here or there. Its all too stupid to me.

Love is hard to do.
Very hard, I struggle with it every single day and fail most of the time. Its good to come here and let it all go, be yourself, talk about the pain of it all.

People dont like us.
What can we do?
I have not got a clue what we can do?

The more we try to fix it the worse it gets, not just in church it can happen everywhere anywhere all of the time. It seems to follow me everywhere sometimes and all because I am hurting about my own situation with my daughter.


We are called to love our enemies, to love those that hurt us to do good to those who persecute us. To continue on praying for them and heap coals upon their heads which sounds pretty good to me except those coals the word is talking about are not the coals I have in mind.
I would say to you my dearest friend that this........... even though I am not doing it myself................ would be the right answer.
I struggle with this all of the time.
But truthfully in my past I have done it and I am here to tell you I have seen it work I trully have.
Most people when they are hurting and angry cannot hear this junk that God writes about in His word. I can dig that big time!
So if you dont want to hear it thats ok.
Dont feel bad just keep coming here to let your anger out and hopefully you will get some support here I did and i love it.
But all I can say is you are really in and doing a huge churchey thing there with all of that whatever it is. Lots of hierarchey stuff going on and personally I hate politics with a passion.

I dont understand why we cant get along and enjoy everybodies way of doing everything. Last night at this church thing I went too here it came about the silly pipe organ......................sheesh!
Im really not a big fan of organs..........but if people want to give their hard earned money to pay for that thing oh well?????????????
people are wondering the streets with nothing to eat but whatever?
They help them too so thats good. I try to see the good and let God take care of the other stuff.
heres what has worked for me in the past when this crap started happening to me. Pray for that person and really get quiet to listen to God telling you what to do next. If you are angry at that person get it off your cheast big time with God. Its ok to do that He knows all about them and you so its not like He doesnt know whats going on there.
Then listen really quietly ........its my experience God doesnt yell at anyone just me maybe thats not right but it seems to me Hes very quiet and peaceful sounding and always huge amounts of loving going on..............

Then let Him tell you what good thing you can do for that person. Like one time I made this angel for this pastors wife..............took quite awhile and the whole time I struggled with this is all so stupid??????????
But as it turned out the pastors wife loved angels it was her hobby big time and the little thing that God told me to write on there was her morning meditation the very day she received it. God put the entire gift together. I became their good friend which believe me........that was the exact opposite of what was happening then.

Right now Im working on things I want to send to my sister who hates me with a vengeance. Her words are cutting my brain in two. Right now I dont love her any more I am finding it hard to love much of anything.
I am trying to remember this is all a battle to let love win. God is love so Im trying to let that happen but in the end we control nothing and no one, so Ill have to let God take care of what I cannot fix, which is everything..............

I am sending nothing but love to you my friend and I hope you will keep coming here, you sound like a very worthwhile person that Id like to get to know.
P.S. Im preaching more to me than to you believe me so dont let this post bother you ok?

[dougjb]

Hi hoipoloi,
Thank you for sharing. The one thing I really like about this forum is knowing that we are not alone. The way you described your situation mirrors some of what I have gone through and what I am going through now. It really jerks my chain when people play the power games, manipulate, and practice character assassination especially in the church. I do not know all the specifics, but if it is like mine, then these people might be using the mechanisms in the church [i.e. style of service, doctrine, church government, etc.] to promote their personal agenda.
It sounds like those who are angry with you about starting a traditional service may have other agendas that you have inadvertently interfered with - like the monopolization of power. If your situation does parallel mine, then the traditional service is not the real issue. They see you as a player in the control of the church and thus a problem. I have found that in the short term things may seem grim. I have seen that time is not the friend of those who commit mischief in the church because the Lord sees what is going on and He has a ways and means committee that will expose and remove such people. Remember, God always has the last say in everything.

Some food for thought
Dougjb

[hoipoloi]

:)

Hi dougjb

Yes, your posting rings bells -- it is exactly like this.

Your comment about my being perceived to be a "player" I see now as probably correct -- and yet this is the last thing I would want -- and you have given me an insight into what is happening.

It's low profile from now on: head beneath the parapet. The temptation to indulge in what Shakespeare said was:

The whirligig of Time brings in his revenges

is very strong, and is a great consolation in the long term, and may help me get through the short term if I concentrate on the loving moment.

:)

[Carmen]

((Hoipoloi)),

You have my sympathy, mobbing in the church is just the lowest of the low to me, it can't be done without lies, and lies are the native language of the devil. Like Doug says, I do think a lot of problems are caused by a power struggle (often one-sided), and sometimes money too.

I do hope that time washes everything away, even when it sometimes doesn't seem like it.

An old German rhyme to sing when a child has an "owie":

Heile, heile Gänschen,
es ist bald wieder gut,
Das Kätzchen hat ein Schwänzchen,
es ist bald wieder gut,
Heile, heile, Mausespeck,
In hundert Jahr ist alles weg.

Heal up, heal up little goose,
it'll all be better soon,
The kitty has a tail,
it'll all be better soon,
heal up, heal up, marshmallow,
everything will be gone in a hundred years.

I find the rhyme to ring true, in one hundred years no one will care and we will be with God in heaven, with no more worries, all of our tears having been washed away forever. Boy, do I look forward to that.

[Jerry]

But I will not be hounded out!

:)

Yes you will :( ,,,,,,,So was Jesus ;)

Love Jerry

[mary]

Yes you will :( ,,,,,,,So was Jesus ;)

Love Jerry

You are so right, Jerry... Hoi Polloi, take heart: Jesus was "outside the camp," and so are we, most blessedly, with Him right there.

Our Lord Jesus Christ would never have treated us the way we've been treated in "churches." That's why I said what I said about John 16:2-3 in another thread. Even if we haven't suffered to the point of mortal or minor physical injury, we have suffered in the ostracism that He took (thereby we bear His name and - thanks be to Him! - can't possibly identify with our persecutors in any conceivable manner; we can't be counted among their numbers by any means) and we suffer in the verbal barbs that He took. He doesn't make us literally die the death - but because we are His, we do drink from His cup. Everyone here has done that... How much more blessed that is than to be where the persecutors are! :) How I would not want to be heading for that millstone around the neck, as they (apparently) are! He tells us to pray for them as He prayed for His persecutors, and we are to obey Him on that, but only He knows how He'll deal with them in the end. Maybe He'll show them the same mercy that He showed us when He saved us, and maybe He won't.

I know well what it is to be preached about/against from the pulpit. Happened to me twice in two different churches. The first time, a preacher who had no use for the King James Bible knew of my affection for it and, in one sermon, quoted from it "for the amusement and entertainment of (another congregant and me)..." whereupon everyone chuckled. The second time, a remark I had made about Hurricane Katrina was taken entirely out of context by the "pastor" who threw me out of his church a year ago and it was used and implied in his sermon that I was "stupid" and "one of the unsaved" (takes a pot to call a kettle black). When I e-mailed him later that I did not appreciate being spoken of in that manner from the pulpit, he shot back, "I don't know what you're talking about." Liar - but then that "pastor's" real father is the Father of Lies.

Hoi Polloi, you've taken a lot, much more than I could have and not run the risk of the local constabulary being summoned to haul me off the premises. :eek: I congratulate you; I admire your courage and your stalwart patience. It takes an enormous amount of character to do what you've done.

May the Lord bless you and keep you; may He give you His shalom shalom (perfect peace).

mary

[hoipoloi]

:)

Mary, Many thanks for your reply -- you are certainly speaking of my condition (as the old Quaker once said).

But more than that, your own experience has obviously been far more traumatic than mine -- and this gives me motivation to carry on enduring, knowing that there are people who understand.

I've often identified with the experience that Jesus had with the Sadducees, the religious institution of his day -- and that also is a great comfort.

:)